Inside The Mind Of R&B Producer Legend Troy Taylor

Don't sing at me, sing to me. I'm gonna make you sound great. Why are you fighting me to sound great? I did it better than that. See, you're not, you're not you're not understanding what this is all about. It's not about better. You're not doing this for me. I don't care. If I'm getting on your nerves, you can leave. If you don't want to sing, just say that. Bathroom? No. Get this line right, then go to the bathroom. On today's episode, we sit down with one of the most legendary RB producers of all time. Troy Taylor's worked with Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, Boyz II Men. The list goes on. But he also took Trey songs from a teenage kid with no music out into the superstar that we know today. After an epic story about the making of one of his hits, Troy broke down his whole artist development process. Honestly, the whole episode is basically like being a fly on the wall in a Grammy winning multi-platinum producer studio session. What are we waiting for? Let's get right into it. One more time. One more time. One more time. Spend it, rock, spin it, one more time. Hit me, baby, one more time. I was gonna try and top Tank's intro on the RB Money podcast.

bro. By far the best intro I've ever had in my life. It was incredible. Yeah. I didn't like at first, I was like, well, is he serious? Just some of the accolades. I know, but some of the accolades, I was like, is he on the board of RB? I didn't know what was that was made. That's what made it real funny. He was dead serious. It was incredible. Yo, Henry, can we just edit in I was gonna say, we'll just clip it and put it in. In the building, we have a master of craft, deity in the building. His work is biblical, etched in stone. I speak of a man who spans decades of RB excellence. He sits on the board of the RB Elders Association. He is a rule maker in all things that are decided in terms of what RB is and how RB lives. This man has cultivated farms of produce that continue to serve and feed the RB community. Ladies and gentlemen, we are talking none other than his excellency Lord Troy Taylor.

Yo, so throughout this episode, can you just randomly comment? I just work here. I just work here. Okay. Yeah. What's that about, bro? Um, because that's in every IG caption of yours. I'll tell you what. Remember what you said about what's your thing that you say? You're just trying to figure it out? Figuring out the music industry. Figuring out the music. Well, at a certain point, it became like everything has changed since when I came in, the game. So now it's like we don't know nothing anymore. So it's just like, you know what? I I hey listen, I just work here. You know, when you don't know, hey, I just work here. So it kind of take the pressure off a little bit. Yeah, it not only that, it just it just lets you know that I I don't know, I don't have all the answers. And I'm just here to do what I need to do. Don't expect much, but expect me to do what I need to do. Take everything everyone says with a grain of salt and like create your own path, but also just soak up as much game as as you can. You know that.

I think how how Rico Brooks put it in one of our early episodes is he's always a student of the game. You gotta be a student. Just forever. You never stop being a student. Right. And again, that's another reason why I say I just work here. I'm I'm here to learn, I'm here to teach, I'm here to whatever needs to be done. Do you have any ways that you do learn? I was gonna literally ask that exactly. Like, where do you learn? Yeah, how do you learn? Yeah. People know that I've work with upcoming talent all the time. However, I do select people that I can learn from. But they just never know I'm learning from them. So it is a it is a uh two-way street. For example, my assistant, he doesn't know this, but he has a very meek, mild personality. He's very, very nice and very um easygoing. I under- I'm not like that at all. Even if I don't show it inside, I really bah so being around him, he doesn't know. But I learned how to be slow to answer, be slow to speak, or don't be as crass.

So people. People. Learning from people. That's who you're learning the most from. Yeah. Yeah. I take bits and pieces from different people. And I think what's great about what you're saying is that everyone always thinks that they need to be learning from someone who is like in a further place than them, or like I think it's about knowing what who you are, what you have, what you don't have, what you know, what you don't know. And then if you find one thing from somebody, that's it. It doesn't have to be a lot. Yeah. That's it. So all right, let's do let's do a version of the songs you didn't know that Troy Taylor produced. Let's just do like five of your favorite ones that you know what I mean, like always catch people by surprise, but that maybe you're like most proud of. Um Sweet Lady is a double-edged sword. Because on one hand, I'm proud of it, but the beginning of how it all came about, I'm not. It was torturous. So it turned out to be it's bittersweet. So I'm proud of it on one hand, but then you know, um, Tyrese and I have gained closure. Uh it took 20 plus years, but we finally got a chance to talk about what happened during the making of Sweet Lady.

Can we hear about the making of Sweet Lady? No, no, it was simple. I was like, is he going to just dangle this over. our head? The record company wanted him to do it, he did not. And um I didn't know why. I found out 20 years plus later, or why he gave me a hard time. Um, but he gave me a hard time. He stood me up the first night at the studio. At the studio. Oh man. And so back then, the way we did demos was on the ADATS. No idea what you're talking about. ADATs look like a VHS. It looks like a VHS, but you record music on it. Okay, yeah, I was like, Talk to me like I am the fifth grader. Imagine a cassette. Okay, I feel you. Plop it in. Okay, you don't need to let Troy explain it, bro. I know he knows that. I know he does. So um when you do a demo on a VHS, on an ADAT, you're gonna have to do it over because we were on tape and we weren't in Pro Tools yet. So we was on the thick reel to reel. So

I had to redo the background vocals. And I knew that Tyrese didn't want to do the song. So I figured, well, he can do the backgrounds with me. And then the bridge was still open, hadn't been written to. So I figured he could write the bridge. Maybe, you know, make make him a part of the song. So now he'll feel differently because now he's a part of the song. So I'm there and waiting on him and still waiting on him and getting bored. So I do the background vocals to the hook. And he's still not there, so I just do all the harmonies. Cause you because I'm gonna do all the harmonies. It's just fun. and you're bored, and you're bored. Yeah, and doing backgrounds is fun for me. So he's still not there, and I get something to eat. He's still not there. And nobody's telling me anything because we didn't have cell phones and computers and all that stuff. So he still didn't come, so I decided to write the bridge and do the backgrounds on that too.

So finally it got late. And then I just decided, you know what? Forget it. Um there was an industry party that was going on that evening that I knew of, and I had no plans on going because I thought I would be recording. So I said, I'm gonna I'll go to industry, but I'll go to the party. I forget what party it was. So I go to the party and I'm walking around. Who do I run into? No. No. No. Or literally. So I was like, yo, I was, you know, I was at the studio waiting, waiting for you. Writing your song. Oh man, I I yeah, I told him I want to start tomorrow. Now the ironic thing about this is I was going to I I had a young lady coming in that I was flying in, and I was having her fly in the next day specifically because I felt like I would be done by the next day. So she'll come in and you know, I'll record that night and get the song done, and she'll come in the next day.

So now he's throwing me off, so I can't, you know, go get her from the airport. So because we got to do the session. Yeah. So my partner at the time, he goes to the airport and gets her and brings her back to the studio. And now I'm recording him, and he's just giving me the hardest time on the song. Like, you know what do you mean? What's he doing? Okay, so if you know the song, the song is now any other day, stop. I would play cool stop, but I can't now stop. He didn't that cadence, he didn't like it because it was it wasn't ongoing elongated singing. Mm-hmm. It was like any other day. It's more staccato. I would play it cool, but I can't. He hated that. He hated that. He wanted to now any other day, I'll play it cool. He wanted to Okay. He wanted it just long and full. And so he did not like it at all. We get to the we get through the verse.

Now, sweet lady has a slight call and response. Sweet lady. sweet lady, would you be. Sweet lady, sweet lady. It's like boom, boom. So when we got to the hook, it was too again controlled. He had to stay in the pocket. So he didn't like that. But then when we got to the second verse, some second verses are different. But in this case, it's the same. I gotta do that again. Oh man. Oh my gosh. Therese, this is the way the song goes. I'm sorry. This is so meanwhile, the young lady is sitting next to me, and she had never been in the studio before, and she's just watching how difficult he's been. She's like, are all studios that is what you do? Well, this is crazy. She whispered in my ear. She was like, uh, is it is it hard what you're asking him to do? Damn, that's no, it's not.

It's actually easier. What is it? Why doesn't he want to do it? It's a nice song. Good question, baby. He doesn't like the song. Why? It's nice. He doesn't like it. Now, this song, this story comes in a few parts because later on, that girl would go on to be my wife. Now my ex-wife. Anyway, but now, okay, so neither here nor there. Okay. We're not opening that door, Troy. We don't have to go. that door. We don't got time for that shit. All right. This isn't that kind of podcast. I just wanted to throw a curveball in there to say who she ended up being. But anyway, um, so yeah, got through that, and now it's time to get to the bridge. Remember, yeah, I wrote the bridge and everything. Yeah, we know. And the background, if you listen to the bridge. He's literally just responding to the bridge. So the bridge is the lead, more so, and he's just ad-libbing. And then we get to that hook after the bridge, he has to do one more time that call and response, and then I would let him run free. So, yeah.

That one last ad lib that he does at the end was one take, and that was what he wanted to do all along. So if you listen to the song, he just let it go. He'd been wanting to do that the whole song. So, what was his attitude towards it? Like when all things are said and done. Right? Did he finally come around to do it? he didn't come around for a long time because when it became a hit, that means he has to sing that song every time he does shows. All the time. So he had done it for a year. Oh, he hate, he hated you, bro. He hated it was like yo. He hated Troy, bro. And this is we don't have to put sweet lady on the set list, I think. We could skip that one, I think. So years later, um, I would, I would, and years later, meaning literally 2021 or 2022. Holy shit. Yeah, now I'm at his house and um in and out here in Atlanta. And um, he had he had no idea. This all these years, he had no idea of this story of how I felt because you know it was and maybe it was just inconsequential to him.

He didn't understand the backstory. Yeah, no, he didn't understand. what's missing here is a year later when it came time to work on his next album? I had a song ready prepared for him that Jonte and I did. Jonte did Sweet Lady with me, Jonte Austin. And we had our song prepared, and by this time I had my own studio in New York. So I was gonna have Jonte come down and because Jonte lived in Atlanta, I lived in New York at the time. I was gonna have Jonte come down and Jonte worked with him because they were the same age. And so we hadn't seen uh Tyrese and I hadn't seen any see each other since Sweet Lady blew up. And so I felt like I don't want to deal with him. So Jonte, you come. Well, at the last minute, Jonte couldn't make it. God dang it, Jonte. So now here I am. I gotta so I play him the record that we held for a year. First and foremost, I found out that Tyrese was a right around the corner for a whole summer recording and never came to us. So we had to figure that out.

Why isn't Tyrese here? He's right around the corner. How come he hasn't you know come over here? We gave him his biggest hit. Like, how you not gonna come to us? Right. So they figured that out, they worked that out, and he came, but he only gave me one night. So I had to play the song that we had for a year for this one night, and it so happened to have the same sweet lady vibe. Oh no. God, Troy. This shit again. Well, didn't you learn a damn thing, Troy? Well, hey, by this point, it's a hit. Right. So should it be a problem? Not to me. And sometimes some people do a hit record and they come back with a record that's similar to it to go, oh man, this is the same vibe. So I thought it was gonna be cool. Oh, God. He listens to the whole thing. He goes through the whole thing, and he just got this look on his face. And he's like, yo, man, it just sound like Sweet Lady. And I was like, okay.

He's like, you don't understand. And that's when I would find out that he had to, he had gotten to a point where he stopped singing the song when he did shows because he was sick of sick of singing it. Wow. But the fans wanted him to sing it. Oh, man. So I was like, you don't understand, man. I I don't even sing sweet lady no more. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is just like Sweet Lady. I was like, it really wasn't, but I understood. It's the same tempo, same same energy of the record, but on purpose. Yeah. So I didn't think he was gonna piss a fit like that. And so now it's like, gosh. I didn't have anything else prepared. So I had another record Johntá and I uh did. So I played it for him, and um he just he liked it, so we decided to cut it. So now I remember the first time, Sweet Lady, I didn't know him, and I didn't know his temperament. So now I know his temperament.

This time it's like, okay, he doesn't have to have re be restricted, you know, constricted and restricted of how he wanted to sing because now he's Tyrese. Yeah. So now this particular song, he only has this time this time to learn the song. So we don't have much time because I remember I only got one night. Why do I only got one night and I gave him his biggest record? And he's down the street, and he's around the corner. Literally down the street. But he had to go to LA. So I'm letting him learn the song, and I'm teaching him the song, but I'm only teaching him the song so he can learn it and then do what he wants with it. So in the middle of me teaching him the song, yo, I gotta do it like that. And then I'm like, Tyrese, I'm just trying to teach you the song so that you could do your thing. Well, then that turned into a back and pulling tug. And I got up and I just got mad and I walked out and I kicked the cabinets and the door and screamed. I'm like, yo, y'all need to come and get your man.

I cursed back then, so my mouth was a little potty. It's the most adorable way to say, I don't curse anymore. don't curse anymore. So it turned into a big, you know, we all came back in the room, and I explained to him, you know, um, through the whole time that you was doing Sweet Lady, you never once said our name. Because by that point, it had won an American Music Award, and he got up there and he didn't thank us. It's like, you know, we get a lot of work based off of your acknowledgement and shouting our name out for the song. So we had this long talk, long needless to say, he didn't end up keeping that song. So that turned into my ex-partner feeling a type of way, but he never told me. And then uh one day uh we were going to this meeting, and I I to who we were going to see was a person that was responsible for getting me started, Timmy Regisford. And um, he worked at DreamWorks, so we were going to have a meeting with him.

So, in essence, I knew Timmy before I even knew my partner, so I felt like, yeah, we're going. Well, he had plans on going by himself, and I didn't understand that. And he's like, no, Troy, I'm gonna do this by myself. I'm just gonna do this by myself. I'm like, why? It's Timmy. Like, what are you talking about? Nah, man. And so he had a way of throwing in, see, that's what I'm saying, man, because of you we ain't on the Tyrese next album. So he had been holding that in. Long story short of that, Oh, I, of course, declined to go to the meeting because I was so mad. Because see, there was something about what he said. I'm the reason why we're not on the album because he didn't decide to do the song. But I'm in the reason he is here in the first place. Right. So it's kind of like he can't throw that in my face because I play two parts. Yeah.

The reason why he's here in the first place, and who cares if we don't be on the second album? I don't really care. You know what I mean? Like, but I I went home, I went in the basement in the dark, and I rocked back and forth, and I told God any way you get me out of this situation, being my partner for 12 years at this point, I'm done. I'm done, like literally done. And so therefore, um, so so that whole situation was the callous of me leaving my 12 year company. Wow. So Tyrese never knew none of this stuff. So now back in his house, we're coming years later, and I tell him the things that happened prior to, and he's just like his mind's being blown. Like imagine Tyrese listening to the story. Bro, I didn't know, man. I'm so sorry. I did I didn't know. And I was like, eh, that's cool. So you're saying that because I do, I'm like, eh, yeah. Let's see.

Man, he was. It played out okay though. Yeah, yeah, it played out really good. Let me take a moment to interrupt this episode and tell you about our friends over at DistroKid. DistroKid is easily the best DIY distributor on the marketplace. Let me tell you why. It's only $23 a year. That's less than $2 a month for you to upload unlimited music to all of your favorite streaming platforms on the planet. It's so easy that it takes me like five minutes per upload, and that's when I'm multitasking dealing with my two-year-old son. Hands down, my favorite part about DistroKid is how easy it is to add credits to an upload. I don't know what distributor you're using, but with DistroKid, it's super easy. You can put the artist, the producer, the songwriter. I'm pretty sure you can put like the junior associate engineer of a song. And me, I I want to know who's on the record. And if you sign up using this link, you're gonna get 30% off an already insanely low price, and you can finally start adding your collaborators because they are checking. They will notice when their name's there and they will thank you for doing it. Let's get back to the episode.

What do you think? Okay. The story leaks into because Trey Songz was my ex-partner, was the reason why I knew Trey Songz in the first place. Mm-hmm. Because Trey Songz's stepdad and my ex-partner went to high school together. Oh. And so he wanted him to listen to his son, who's 15, who says he wants to sing, but he raps. And so since my ex-partner does not do music, he's the business side more so. He's like, Well, I'll send him the Troy. And so that's how I ended up meeting Trey. So now Trey is supposed to be our artist. So now that I'm leaving, I can't take Trey with me because Trey's I met him through him. That would be kind of wrong if I so I told Trey, I'll still work with you, but you have to stay with him because I met you through him. Like he's the reason. Well, Trey didn't like it, but he would go in, come back and come over my house, and we would continue on, you know, because he's 15 at going on 16 at this time. So long story short of that, my ex-partner ended up kicking him out because he told him that if you do 60 60 songs, he'll start shopping him a deal.

Well, that's stupid. What if he's not ready? And 60 songs, as in 60 songs full, 60 songs ideas. What because he's not the music, he's not explaining to Trey what that actually means. Well, at this point, Trey did 60 plus some odd records. Were they good? No. They wouldn't, but they would, you know, they would he didn't say how they had to be. So he had stopped going in as much. He would go in, but not as much. And then he would spend more time with me. So my ex-partner uh got mad and started getting, you know, like, where's Trey? And he's not coming in. And then he kicked him out. Told him he can't come back. And Trey, man. He was so excited. Now I don't have to go back, I can stay with you. And so from that point on, he's seven. By that point, he's 17. No, he's yeah, he's 17.

And so I was like, you know what? I'll do your demo and and see what I could do. But like, were you doing it initially as somewhat of a favor, or did you always see the vision? for Trey? Definitely. Okay, you did. Yeah, no, because I was the reason why we were working with him. Okay, so when he came over to my house for me to tell him what I think, yeah, that's when I saw it. Okay. And Trey. So yeah, from that point on, Trey was with us, but now I'm leaving. So they kind of put Trey in the middle of us like a divorce. Yeah, yeah. So I was like, uh, you stay in custody. Yeah, but so I had built all a built a relationship with Trey already. He was already coming with me different places and learning. So to say that I'm leaving and he has to stay means that what I'm gonna do. When he told him that, he was excited. And so because of that, I decided to get him make his demo, 10 song demo, and shop it. So what do you think Trey's superpower is?

You know what I mean? Because he had a pretty long career, obviously. You know what I mean? He dropped it a couple years ago again, I feel like, right? Um yeah. Um one of Trey's superpowers is he has the ability, and back he and back then when he was younger, the ability to make the guys want to be him, but the girls want to be with him. Oh that's huge. That's a good one. Yeah. Because when you're a male artist, if you are have if you if guys look at you and like, oh, I want to be like Trey, uh, especially he was skinny, and so he never moved like he was skinny. So he made all the skinny guys feel like I can take off my shirt like Trey. No one cares if my chest is scrawny, Trey don't care. So you know, and just he had a rapper mentality, even though he was RB. So the guys thought he was cool. And then at the same time, when you go to a Trey Songz concert, the guys don't feel out of place being there because they know the girls are gonna be there. So they like him, but they like the fact that he get the girls there, so you got the guys and you got the girls.

So that's one of his abilities were to make to have both male and female really like him and his music. Yeah. So that's one of his uh his superpowers. And um his ability to uh captivate people vocally with his style because he didn't sing like anybody but him. Yeah, yeah. What do you think your superpower was when it came to like building Trey into the superstar that he became? Right, because you were obviously there from ground zero, yeah, right? And you saw him rise the ranks, worked on every project, right? Yeah. Over like two decades almost, right? He was my baby. Yeah, yeah. So like what do you think you brought to that equation, right? Because you had been producing, you were an artist before, you know, you weren't new to music by any means, but just like him specifically, like that's where shit really you really showed your stuff as a as a producer. Like, really, what I did was put all the artistry of me that was inside into Trey. Um, the superpower was the ability to pull out the starism that's in him.

You know what I mean? Uh when I met him when he was 15, he sang for me. And uh little things like when he sang, he didn't go out of key. You sing a cappella. Some people, if they sing long enough, they start drifting in key. So he has a good natural ear, natural ear for pitch, yeah. For pitch, which is very important. Yes. But at the same time, he's 15, he doesn't even know that he's actually good. In a key or anything, yeah, he doesn't look at it that way. Like the name of the song, Donnell Jones, Where I Wanna Be. You know how people sing an a cappella song, they're not going to even choose the right key of the song. They're just going to start singing. My ear is very sensitive. So I don't know. That's not exactly the key of the song. But okay. You know, but he sang the key and he stayed in the key the whole time. So even though he was a rap known as rapper in high school, uh, he said he wanted to sing, so he had a song, and he pulled out a piece of paper and he sang his song. And the song had a verse, and it had a hook, and it had a second verse.

He didn't know that that he had the right formula for a song. He's just doing what he thinks. So that caught my eye too. Natural. So and then he had this this this look in his in his eyes, like this. It's like I can look at someone and see where it's going. You know, so when you say you kind of were able to pull the star out of him, right? Can you share, like in practice, what did that actually look like? Like how were you actually helping do that? Trey became my vocal producer assistant. What that meant was if I have a session with an artist, Trey is going to get you ready. He's gonna get you doing the verse, or you know, he's gonna drill you a little bit, but he's nice and prepare you, and then I'm gonna come and clean up. Sometimes you would start with me, and then I would take a break, and Trey would take over. But Trey's ear from watching me got sharper and sharper, so he already knew what I'm gonna want the artist to do.

So I use that time to teach him. So he was literally running sessions with you? Yes. Yeah, that's a big one. That's huge. And everyone would be like, who's the kid. Oh, he's gonna start you. What do you mean? He's gonna get you started on the first verse. Okay. So Trey, quiet. He would sit down and he would tell him what to do. But he would base it off of what I used to tell him or tell him during, you know, in our sessions. And that use that to be his practice. So it's a hands-on practice for him. You got to get the performance right. So how do you know to get the performance right? Because you know what they gotta do. So you know what to tell him. But he was nicer than me. What are some of those like common phrases? Some of these common like little tips, bits of feedback that you're giving. Like what do they even sound like? Some people might just have no idea, you know. Hmm. Don't sing at me, sing to me.

Ooh. He's already fitted. Keep going. You know what I'm saying? You're cooking. Because you know how people sing and they sing kind of like with one tone, and they don't even give you different dynamics in their voice, like they talk. Because imagine if I just talk like this and everything was just like this, and you just you know, there's no peaks and valleys in the way I'm talking because I'm just talking. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. And you feel like, okay. Well, when people sing and they use one tone through the whole verse or whatever, it's like you talk, you're yelling at me. Can I get some dynamics? Because when you talk, you will be like, hey, man, you know, because you know, I really did that. But you know, yeah. So if you do that when you talk, why wouldn't you do that when you sing? Mm-hmm. So if I don't get that motion of phrasing, especially off of the lyrics that you're singing, then you're not singing to me. You're just singing words. Yeah, we talk a lot about that in our in our live streams. It's like it, you know, sometimes it feels like one speed.

Exactly. Like you literally have it on cruise control on a road. It's just one thing. There's no Yeah, it could be tone or flow just being the exact same. So I just say, sing to me, not at me. Yeah. Because right now, I don't feel anything. I will say this. I had this thing where I used to think that if you had a record deal, you went through something, some type of training. I thought that was what you were gonna say, and I was like, so how do you know not what not to do? You got a record deal. Yeah, you can't hear your flats and sharps. There's no way in the world you can have a record deal and not hear your flats and sharps. Okay, oh, there is Troy. Now there is but initially I honestly thought that if you got a record deal, then you have surpassed the teachings and understanding. I didn't know You knew theory, you had vocal training. Let me see your record label certification. Your breathing is. Yes, and everything and emotion, and you know, but when they when they didn't have it, I'm like, why am I telling you how to sing?

Yeah, that's how I looked at it. Wow. I'm telling you how to sing and you got a record deal. I'm just supposed to give you the song. Right. Exactly. So that gave me that got on my nerves alone. Yeah. That gave me the, you know, and I'm Ah, I got like it brings me back to why SO's around me because he wouldn't yell at people. SO wouldn't do it. Yeah, but but bro, I've I've seen just even some of the clips that you post, like you're still pretty hard on artists in the studio. I am, but I am nowhere near. Nowhere near. So what were you like before? Like, what were you actually saying sometimes? Can you just like bleep yourself or something? You know what I mean? Can you censor yourself? Okay, hello. Give me, give me like a at least. I mean, I gotta know what he's talking about. Let me channel um old Troy Taylor. Oh god, we're like relapsing him right now. bro. Um let me see. Just remember, SO's here. So, like, you can look over at him. No, no, I can I can I'm like, okay, so it'll be like what the F is that?

Really? Do that ish right. Like you effing doing that, like what the F like yo, look. If you don't want to sing, just say that. Yeah, that's a good one. If you don't want to sing, just say that. If you're if it if I'm getting on your nerves, you can leave. Ooh. Oh, shit. Look, you're not doing this for me. I don't care. Bathroom? No. Get this line right, then go to the bathroom. Ooh. Shit. We'll see, no, but now now check this out. If you're on a line and you're trying to get this line right, there's a tone that you're using to get the line right. If you leave and go to the bathroom, you're losing that tone. Yeah. Now we gotta spend a half an hour to get the tone right to connect the lines together. Yes. So am I in the middle of getting this one last line and you talk about you gotta go to the bathroom, you're not going. But bro, this is what people need, bro.

Yeah, but it makes sense. Other than the F bombs, like I feel like you probably still say these types of like I say freak a lot, freaking But like these just general themes of like if someone was trying to go to use the bathroom, would you still say something like that? No, you that ain't changing. That's what I mean. Yeah, no, that's because that just makes sense what you're saying. It has cursing with it. I know, I get that, but like the idea, the message is sound. Yeah. the core principles are still because you're trying to get the song out. Yeah. You know, we're here to get the fucking music made, bro. Do you know that people still to this day, and it's crossed generations, that the essence of singing a song and delivering a song doesn't occur to them that they are actually telling a story and giving people a motivation to use their song for certain situations. They just look at it as singing a song for an album or a project. They don't get into the actual what your role is when you come into the studio to do this song.

Immediately I'm into that. Like, okay, this is a sad song. Why are you showing off on a sad song? Mm-hmm. I feel I don't, I'm not, I don't feel sad. The words say you sad, but you don't sound sad. You too, Bert, you're trying to show off. You've got the listener in mind. Yes. You're trying to show off on a sad song. Why are you sounding great on a sad song? Like you're not supposed to sound great on a sad song. You're supposed to sound broken. And people are supposed to feel, oh man, I felt that when he said that. But you're you're not paying attention. So I'm thinking like everybody should pay attention to something like that. Nope. No one cares. They just want to sound. So when I'm trying to get an emotion out of them, and they sang it good to them, what was wrong with that? I hit every note. Mm-mm. What's wrong? So if I gotta get you frustrated, so frustrated that you slip up and give me the emotion I need. Okay, next. That was good.

Yeah. We got it. I don't like I did it better than that. See, you're not you're not understanding what this is all about. It's not about better. It's about something I can't explain. But you'll get it when you finish it and then sit down and listen. Mm-hmm. That's when you'll hear it. By that point, I don't want to hear nothing. Oh man, this sounds shut up. Don't don't say nothing. I don't want to hear it. You gave me a hard time. All I ask you to do is just trust me, flow with me. You know what I mean? I'm gonna make you sound great. Why are you fighting me to sound great? But because they don't get it, they don't understand. So to them, it's like you just want it to be perfect. Actually, no, I want it to be imperfectly perfect. Yeah, that's one. That's a bar. Yeah, I mean, I I think you made a post about um how good Beyonce is at being uh the true definition of a recording artist. Yep so everything that you're saying, like the way that she's able to evoke all the different emotions and styles in her recording process to get the song and get the feeling, yeah.

That's why she's the that's why she's the fucking queen. Yes, you know, she gets it. She understands it. Michael Jackson did it as well. Yeah, he gave you the whatever the emotion of that song is, he you felt it, not just heard him, you felt it as well. And now the kids today, they don't really study to apply. So, without you know, being able to get in a studio session with a legend like yourself, how can our community of artists, you know, specifically, how can they try and study to apply, or how can they try and improve the way that their recording process goes, you know what I mean? Like just is there any like tactical things that you're gonna pay attention? Okay, so what do you mean by that? I ask an artist like give me a song that you wish was yours, and they'll have to think, oh, I um I love such and such song. Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool. I I take that as a reference and I put it into my head. Now, if when we start recording, I take that that you wish that song was yours, or that artist, you love listening to that artist, and then I say, whatever that artist makes you feel, there's a reason why you love that artist. Channel that feeling into this.

Again, they all that sounds like is I want you to sound like them. No, I want you to whatever feelings that artist gives you, express it here. Yeah. It's it's pretty intricate, but they're not taught that way. They're not taught to listen and apply. So how much of an artist is like just natural born talent versus some of this like application and studying that you're talking about, right? Like um you're born with 75% talent. That 25 is you now applying learning and and how to use the 75%. The funny part is that 25% if you don't learn it, it's not enough to get it to be a hundred. There's plenty of 75s and 80s out there. Exactly. Yeah. Oh my god. Oh no, no, no, I like that song.

No, but I like that song, though. That one song that they sing, I like that song. Yeah, it's a whole album. And but I like that one song. So you're not getting the 25% that matters, it's not going into your craft, your vocals, your everything to make you a hundred. So, like, in in in the current state of things for Troy Taylor, like, you know, who's an artist that you're currently like locked in with that you'd say you're in like the development phase right now? Um Papa J. Papa Jay. Uh when I first started working with him, he was 16. How'd you find him? Uh his dad actually came to me. His dad sought me out and asked me, you know, to because he admired the way that I worked with Trey. Okay. So he came to me, you know, to sit down with him and his son, and in hopes of me doing the same thing that I did with Trey with his son. Sure.

So his dad was an artist in his earlier years. Okay. So all that he learned and everything, you know, writing and carrying himself shows, how to make shows, how to do shows, how to put shows together, how to, he put into his son. So it became easy to work with his son because his son was already knowing what he wanted to do, how he wanted to sound, how he wanted to feel. Um, but he just needed somebody who would have the patience to help him articulate musically what he's hearing in his head. So ultimately, his dad was hoping that I would help his son do that. The tricky thing about that is that you can't just go to anybody. So he had been watching what I did for Trey a long time. So by the time I met them, you know, it was easy for me to go. Um, so what do you want to do? Because this is how Trey learned. Tell me what you want to do. Oh, you can't tell me?

Then learn. Learn how to tell me what you hear in your head. How do you want it to go? You don't know? Figure it out. I'm not doing it for you, especially if you have ideas. So his his his son, he his dad taught his son how to articulate, but then he's not musically inclined necessarily. So if he has it a certain way he wants to go, hum it. Do you think every artist needs to be able to do that to be successful? It would help. Okay, but it is it a requirement? I would say so. It goes back to that thing where I said, why do you got a record deal? You're supposed to have learned this. Okay. It's like a school. Before you become a it should be the way. Before you get the record deal, you should have to become a freshman, sophomore, senior, I mean junior, senior. You know what I mean? Like you should have done all the 101 classes at least. At least some type of artist development. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, but you come in there because oops, oh my gosh, it went viral.

You got a record deal. Ah now you come to Troy, the mean old monster. that's like expecting you to actually have learned something and you don't know what to do. And now I'm sitting here like, you see that line back there of people waiting to get in your spot who actually deserve it. And now I gotta sit here and pour into you, and you don't even deserve it. Okay, just pay me. I just work here. I just work here. You've been slacking. No, you were supposed to be all episode, I just work here. I've been learning you've been so locked in, you forgot your one job. What's to say I just work here? Yeah, but in the end of the day, I just work here, you know what I'm saying? So you can't do it now and expect yourself to be saved. I think I did save myself. Oh my god. All right. So, you know, one thing I wanted to you, you know, touch on is like how important do you think it is for a producer to be able to engineer? Because I feel like you in all of your videos, you're borderline, like at the computer, like money doing your thing.

It's so funny because the new generation, they call me an engineer. It's so hilarious. I know. The engineer. See, I need an engineer like that. I am so not an engineer. Yeah, I am like really not an engineer. I'm a producer who records. Yes. That's it. And how important is it for a producer to be able to record? Well, you know, it's so funny because the producers of today, the young producers, they either aren't even showing up, they'll send the track, and the poor engineers have to copy, cut, chop up the record, and switch it around and produce. And it's like, that's not fair. Because they're not getting any royalties. They're not getting royalty points or anything. They're just getting that hourly wage, and that's not fair for you to the and the producer's not even there. So, how important for the producers to engineer? Extremely important. Because the engineer should be told what to do from the producer. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Or they should be paid as a producer. Ooh, I just have an epiphany. That's what I'm gonna talk about. Just because you did the track doesn't mean you're the producer. That means you're a beat maker. Ooh. Yeah. Anyway, George's posting a clip tomorrow. No, you want to see our university episode number 55. Um yeah, they actually think that because they did the beat, they're a producer of the whole song. You're right. Here's the thing. You wrote the beat. You did the beat. And if I come in and I did the vocal production, here's a here's the oxymoron. You know, you did the beat, but you're the whole producer. I did the vocal production, but I'm just the vocal producer. Yeah. So that's that's ironic. Like, like I did the other part of the song. So if you're the beat maker, I'm the vocal producer. Oh, you don't want to be called a beat maker. Well, I don't want to be called a vocal producer. So why don't we go? We produced it together. Well, because the industry says, Oh, because you made the beat, you are the producer automatically. So that is dumb.

I hate that. Because there's a whole nother part of the song that needs to be done. So if the engineer is doing the actual vocal production, shouldn't he be a part of the production? Yes. Do you think anyone can, you know, give their you know blunt, honest opinion, or do you think it's like a thing that's earned, right? Like, because you are Troy Taylor now. So I want to know what you think. So if you have if I say it suck, I disagree. Okay. That's it. So anyone who is invited into the session should be able to voice their your honest opinion in your mind or no, no. No, no, no, no. You gotta be axed. You can't just speak your opinion. Okay. No, no, no, no. I have rules. Okay. Okay. You know, you just don't, you don't, you don't just talk. Unless you're asked, you know what I mean? Okay. If you're able to be in a session, like I don't want to hear what you have to say, you know, the entourage. But if you're the artist, I do ask them what do they think. If it's something that I think could be better and they love it, I'll go with them.

If I think they could do it better, I'll keep what they like, mute it and say, beat it. If you can't beat it, then you know, that kind of thing. Or if or if or if I like it and they want to do it again, I'll mute it and say, beat it. If you can't beat it, we'll keep it. But I guess like I guess more of my question is like, I'm a new producer, right? I get into a session with an artist. Maybe the artist is new, maybe they're a little bit more established than me, whatever. Like, should I feel like I have the right to if I am producing the song, should I feel like I have the right to push the limits with the artist and like trying, yeah, you know, make the job, right? That's your job if they trust you as a producer, if they trust me. But um But it's almost like, but I almost don't even know if it's if they trust me. It's like if I'm there to produce the song, clearly there doesn't there already exist this level of nah no because they always looking at it, yeah. What did you do? It has to be something you've done that they liked that they'll trust you. Here's a funny thing though.

Even when you look on my page, what you're seeing is me when I come down after they written the song or written the idea. I don't start with them. They are required to record themselves. What you see me video recording, I come down to listen to their idea, what they have. If it makes me sit down, that means there's something there and I can work with it. That's when the camera goes on. Do you write lyrics? I can, but do you like to? Oh, here's the insecure thing about me is I don't think I can. I'm I don't think I'm cool enough. It's not your thing. No, it's my thing. but in your mind, I don't think I'm cool enough. I don't sing, I don't talk the lingo that they talk. So you're I can do melodies, sure, but I'm not confident with the lyrical part of it because it I feel like what I say sounds corny. Sure. It's an insecure thing. Yeah. I just saw this clip of this like British songwriter at like the songwriters conference being like, we deserve master points. Do you think writers deserve, you know, a percentage of the master?

I I will have to say, um, I wouldn't be against it. Yeah. I wouldn't be against it for the sake of things changing. It was like if we're changing that, we need to change this. If we're changing that, we need to change this. Let's make changes now. Like, not just like accommodate only certain people. Let's really let's go through this whole thing and change up, you know, like. Like, why is it that if a label takes a song, the producer gets paid, but the songwriter doesn't. Right. That's what I'm saying. Actually, that actually doesn't technically doesn't make sense. That's what I'm saying. Like why does the producer get paid and the songwriter doesn't get a well after a while? If the songwriter gets a hit, then they can do a writer's fee. Yeah. But you have to have some hits. You have to get there, yeah. Yeah, but okay, so the producer works at McDonald's and he oops got a record placed. He asked for his advance all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So it happens all the time. why doesn't a writer We get Henry advances out here. Producers just, I think used to be more hands-on. Producers aren't like you are. No. Modern day producers aren't doing what you're doing. No. The shit that you do, like, you deserve an advance. You deserve a piece of the pie. The publishing, every part. But like, yeah, someone's sending a beat off and the hit gets made. I just don't see it. And ask for that advance. The loop maker asking for the advance, too. Let's get real down into it. Okay, before we go down that rabbit hole. Henry, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. I'm I'm pissed. We have like we have like so many things I want to do. We have to do that. Like, we didn't even get to talk about Aretha Franklin, but that's crazy. Or Patty Labelle. No, or anyone, or Whitney or anybody. We haven't had a part two, but Troy might have to be Troy might have to come back quick. Yeah. Cool. Well, this is the final segment. It's called the Rapid Fire Rampage. There's three parts. I'm Just gonna start with some short answer. Okay.

Rapid fire questions. Let's get into it. Starting off real deep, real philosophical here. Oh god. Troy, how are you doing today? I'm awesome. Fantastic. Moving on. Give us your top three quick tips for people to make better songs. Study the lyrics. Make sure it's a conversation. That's one. Make sure a five-year-old can sing it. Yes. Like T Ron said that. That's two. Make sure your tone goes with the lyrics. The melody. Make sure your tone goes with the melody of the lyrics. Beautiful. Troy, invent an app. Pitch me an app. Um. I want this app to take quirky lyrics and make them cool. Okay, perfect for you.

Yeah. Yeah. You spit in like an idea. Here's my here's my lyrical Here's my lyrical idea. Yeah. Now give me all the slang and everything. I'm pretty sure ChatGPT can do that right now. Jay, I can. Yeah. It could even go regional, like make it a Baltimore kid with this. You know what I mean? Um. Yeah. Yeah. That's fire. I like that a lot. Um, give us on that note your brief stance on AI and music. Okay. Top thoughts. So I think that there's a space for it. It's actually cool. I like AI personally. I think that it should make you more creative, not lazy. Yes. It's like auto-tune. I don't think it should make you lazy. I think it should make you creative. For example, splice. The ideas and getting the ideas are is good. I don't think you I don't think you should use them straight out. I think you should challenge yourself to chop them up and use them in different ways.

I don't think that you should play them exactly how they are, because you're gonna be pissed when you find out all the people that use exactly how it is. So I think with AI, I think that it's okay to use it, but I don't think it's okay to just lay on it the way it is. I think you should use it for the idea to spark an idea and then go from there. I love that take. That's so good. It's amazing. I think that's how everyone should be using AI across all industries. Like we even don't do a good enough job. yet. we're like trying to dabble with like doing AI-generated like prompts for topics of discussion and like certain things or whatever. We don't even do enough, but I think that if you just use it to like get the ideas flowing, they're jump-off points. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's the way to do it. That's fire. Troy, your dog just learned to speak English. Okay. But you have to give it an accent to speak in. What accent are we giving your dog? So my dog Logan. Uh he's uh he's a golden doodle. Okay, who now speaks English. And he thinks he's human. Well, now he is.

Now he really is. Yeah, he's part human now. Uh non-American accent, I'll clarify. Oh. Daddy, can I have a treat? He's British, proper British. He's just a Logan. That's just the way he looks, Logan. It's supper time. He looks British. He just gives me that the way he looks at me. Yeah. He looks at me like a very like he'd call you bruv. Yeah. Yeah, like bruv. Yeah. It's time for tea. or bottle of water. Troy, what is the one thing you really feel like most music in 2024 is lacking? Emotion. That's it. That's gonna be a five-second clip. I'm just gonna post that. I swear. This last one is hilarious. I already had it written, but we can modify it slightly. Um, what is your favorite curse word? Maybe abbreviated or no. I don't curse. Can you give us like I don't curse anymore? What it starts.

What was your favorite curse word? Do you ever slip up? Do you ever slip up? I have to be the I have to be at the top of my brain mad. Yeah. And it and it all comes back. Literally. So you have relapse. Oh my gosh. For sure. I have to be totally mad. Oh, yeah. Because at that point, there is no guard. And I'm gonna say everything that I'm feeling. There's no amount of channeling SO that can work. You cannot say fucking. Have you ever seen me mad like that before? One time. Um it's very, it's very sparse. But if I had to say, if I had to, if it was a curse word, what's what would my curse word be? Um I feel bad for cursing. Let me think let me think about my back in the day. Okay. Oh yeah. What was this? Oh, I I did a lot of F bombs. A lot of F. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was even in his example, yeah. That was the first thing I said.

Four or five F. It was all F one ish and then like four or five F. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. majority were Fs. It was definitely the F bombs. Yeah, yeah. Moving on to part two. This is a this or that. I'm gonna just give you two choices and pick one. Starting with hooks or verses. Say that one more time. Hooks or verses. Hooks. Drums or melodies? Melodies. Wait in the merch line or see the opener. Oh, I like that. Kind of cool, right? I'm gonna say see the opener. Yeah. Keep TikTok or ban TikTok. Keep TikTok. Kendrick or Drake? Drake. Ooh. Major key or minor key? Major. Always sing instead of talk, or always skip instead of walk. Always sing instead of talk. And finally become a full-time country singer or leave the music industry forever. Oh, full-time country singer. Let's go.

Yeah. I want to see that. Troy Taylor country album. On the way. Soon. Maybe? We incepted that idea. Well, I did my truck. Freeland. Okay. Yeah. So you already dabbled. Yeah. Perfect. The final part is the word association. I'm going to say one word and you just respond with the first word that you think of off the top of your head. It's going to be a great time. Let's get into it. Starting with music. Silence. Content. Personality. Dog. Cat. Green. Brown. Studio. Lounge. Uber. Lyft. Chocolate. Cake. Regret. Happiness. Chorus. Hook. Business. Pleasure. Lil. John. Trey.

Songs. Let's go. Let's go. This has been Troy. Taylor. You the go. Man. Appreciate you. coming on the podcast, man. Thank you. Guys. This dude has hit. Hit after hit. If you didn't take away anything but just how you should be just so much more intentional with your recording process. Like, that is it for me, bro. It's the one. It's it's the thing that I care most about when I'm listening to you know, new artist music. And it's I just to hear you like put your perspective on it, it made me feel a little bit better about it. I hope y'all are fired up and going to the studio right now. Right now. Get out of here. Come on, man. Like comment and subscribe before you go but then hit the studio. Peace. Bye bye.