Digital Music Marketing Made Smart and Easy (ft. Megh - CEO of Symphony)

How do we get new streams? How do we get new followers? It's like actually it's a mathematical equation you can come out with if you do the advertising right. Two metrics from Spotify that every artist should look at. ABC tests your music before you waste marketing budget. But if you want to build a career in a business, what's more important than streams is all those seven platforms have different audiences. None of them talk to each other. None of the tools you use talk to each other. You remember your link tree does not talk to your Shopify, does not talk to your email list until Symphony. On today's episode of the One More Time Podcast, we sit down with the CEO and co-founder of Symphony. For anyone who's ever tried to run an ad campaign or maybe analyze your social media and streaming metrics, build a fan database. This shit is confusing and time consuming as hell. Symphony simplifies the whole process. If you're trying to learn when you should start running ads, the type of ads that perform best for artists, music marketing tricks that will absolutely change your life. This episode is for you. Let's get into it. One spin one because I've seen video footage of Indian weddings, and they're already lit as fuck.

You know what I mean? So take the 2024 current current state of things out of the equation. It's just like it's always been a party. And I just see this video from Meg, and I was like, is that a is that a cyber truck at the wedding? Under all those flowers? Is that Bride and Groom in the in the front seat? I love that. What's going on? Anyways, welcome to the podcast, my friend. We got Meg from Symphony. What's up? What's up? On the pod. Yes, man. Live. No, this is this is one we're super excited about. So we've had um Mag, not to be confused with Meg. It's very it's actually very confusing for me. Similar. I feel like it confused a lot of people because like even Symphony, you know, they're both there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So we have Mag on, you know, the podcast from even. And I just thought it was it was gonna be really cool for us to really include music tech companies in our mix. Like 100% up until this point, we haven't really. We hadn't done it. Yeah. Nah, it's always been, you know, A&Rs, managers, producers, artists, writers, engineers, etc. Which super dope perspective, super dope stories. But I think what's cool about getting someone like you on and and you know, like Magon is that these are platforms that our audience can literally go use.

Like there's, there's nothing stopping you guys from if you fuck with this interview and the insights that like him and his company are bringing to you know to the table, you can go use it. Yes, like, yeah, you might not be able to go work with T Ron Thomas, the Grammy winning, you know, songwriter of the year, but like you can take some of those gems, but this is some shit you can literally go do right now. Yeah, like so. Free platform. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I guess just with Symphony, before we get into maybe all the feature functionality, whatever, just what what problem are we solving, right? Like, why even start the company? Because you know, we were talking off camera, you guys had an agency that was building out websites for artists, and you were doing you know some creative types of things, right? But so what what problems exist in the marketplace in the music business that we're solving for with Symphony. It's something that isn't just music specific. I think we're in a world, right? And this is how I explain it to people, not only in music, but outside of music, and it clicks. It's we're in a world where if you're really serious, like y'all, like you guys were like, you know, we want to put this podcast, YouTube video together.

You will figure out how to get it done, right? If you're a person that wants to drop a song, you will figure out how to get it done. The tools are out there. If you want to like build a t-shirt business, you will figure out how to get it done. The cost of creating content or creating a product has kind of gone down to zero today, and AI is making it cheaper and cheaper. So we have like all these amazing people now that have the opportunity to put out their work, their passions, whatever it may be. Um, but at the same time, the cost of uploading content has also gone down to zero, right? Back in the day, 20 years ago, if you wanted to be an artist, you had to get signed. If you wanted to run an e-commerce store, you had to buy your own servers and learn how to be like, you know, Amazon or whatever back in the day. Now it's like Shopify, 80 bucks a month, we're good to go. So we're in this world where content creation is generally very easy for the passionate people that want to do it. We're in a world where uploading content, the cost has gone down to zero. And we're also in a world where the the, you know, the internet's coming very quickly in places that haven't had it, right? Places like South Asia, Africa, my co-founders, Nigeria, and I'm Indian.

So we're very keenly looking at these markets. They skip the desktop age. They went straight to high-speed data on their phones. And so in the next 10 years, the way we see it, there's gonna be 500 million creatives, creators, online businesses, people pushing their content out there, trying to find an audience. And so in that type of world, the only thing that's gonna matter for a lot of people is not their the obviously like the work product has to be great, right? Your art has to be great or connect with certain types of people, but the music has to be good, just the music has to be good, whatever it is, right? Like the product has to be good, right? Um yeah, it's in that sort of world, right? The the biggest thing that's gonna be the driver is not the actual creation of the uploading, it's gonna be how you find your audience and how you actually reach them consistently. And then once you reach them, how you start segmenting them, then how you start segmenting them, or after you start segmenting them, how do you start monetizing them? And so, in you know, 10 years ago, if you looked at it, there's companies like HubSpot and Salesforce that solved that problem for the businesses of 10 years ago.

But the businesses of today are generally kids on their phone, people like us on their phone, uploading, creating, you know, all of that. And they don't have their HubSpot. They don't they don't have a tool that centralizes all their data, right? You're the average artist on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, SoundCloud Title. I'm sure you all face the same thing across all these platforms. No one's taken all this data and centralized it to actually help you make more informed decisions. Everyone's relied on these silos and keep they keep feeding the silos. So Symphony, long story short, we want to break those data silos and connect all the data into one place. So when you're making a marketing decision, you're not making it on an incomplete set of data. You're making it on a holistic view of your audience. And then the tools we build on top of it hopefully help you start monetizing them, understanding them, moving them down the funnel to hopefully a place where they're monetizing with you. Yeah. So is it transcending just the concept of like optimizing ad campaigns then? 100%.

Because I'm not gonna lie, I kind of looked at it at first as more so like, hey, this is a way easier way to run ads. Like because I was telling you off camera, like I I've been in Facebook ads manager, bro. I've been having a good time. I had a terrible time. It's not fun. We didn't end up running any ads. No, no, no. No, no, no. Maybe we did and we spent like way too much money. And I was like, I'm gonna just put a pause on this right now. So so I guess how does that work? How does that part of Symphony work? Just making that experience that maybe is very scary and not user-friendly within the other ads managers, you know what I mean? How does that actually happen? Yeah, now great question. It was like actually some tech I built in 2018. Oh, really? Early on, right? Because the way we used to run ads, we used to run a marketing agency that was hired by all these managers and major labels to do their marketing. They were outsourcing marketing, which always got us annoying because it's like you're a label, you should have marketing in-house. But that's a different conversation. But we'll take a marketing. Um, I mean, listen, I gotta pay the bills too, you know. Um, but yeah, we were just like, you know, running these campaigns by hand for the longest time, but because our process was so centered on data, we'd be going out to Spotify Analytics, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, all these platforms, your email list, Shopify, and we'd first by hand take all these platforms, like at demographics, synthesize them into like, all right, this audience might be on Instagram or TikTok or Twitter or whatever, YouTube.

Um, and then we'd actually go into the ads platforms and by hand make sometimes 300 to 500 audiences just based on those insights we derived. So we'd have a client come in on Monday, and it would take until the following Monday for us to get ad campaigns live. Um because we were doing all the research by hand, all the synthesis. And then in 2018, I was like, we are overwhelmed, we cannot continue keeping up with this this workload. Um, let me see if I can automate some of this, right? And so what we kind of realized is that you could automate the whole pipeline top to bottom. And I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to the ads in a second, but like you know, collecting data, synthesizing it, knowing to target, and then running the ads was a four-step process um by hand, 10 hours a week minimum. And then we realized that oh, we could automate the whole thing with tech connect the dots and make it a two-minute process. And so that is really the power of the advertising tool set of Symphony, is be in the front facing, right? You go in there, you select your song, you upload your asset, you enter your budget, ten dollars a day minimum, you know, very affordable, very easy to dive into.

Um, our system automatically makes 300 to 500 audiences that are ABC tests while your ads are running. And so what you're getting for 20 bucks a month is everything we've learned over seven years of ads best practices on top of the same strategy we use to run the ads for these different objectives. Yeah, because I guess the point is is that if you were a really I I would call you a psychopath at this point. If you wanted to do all of this yourself, you could. Meaning if I wanted to be in all these You want to start a spreadsheet and go crazy, you can. If you want to become an expert on YouTube ads or Google ads and Facebook ads and create these hundreds of lookalike audiences and test them yourselves and monitor the results and this, that, and the third, like that's basically what the tech is doing. It's it's removing the human element, right? Removing the human element and then bringing in all the other data sources that it uses to learn who to target. So every time you're running a Symphony ad, you're saving money, obviously saving time as well.

Cause the AI is gonna be optimizing these audiences way faster than you could, even if you logged in every hour of the day. Because it's looking at the other platforms' data too. And that's the beauty of Symphony versus just being hyper focused on like Facebook, Facebook. Facebook will be like, yo, we got you 10,000 clicks for two cents. But then you look at streams and you're like, where did, where did they go? Symphony doesn't have that problem because Symphony plugs into all of your platforms. So you run an ad campaign, you scroll down and you're starting to see growth in IG followers after your campaign started, growth in streams, growth in Shazams, growth in the growth and have Spotify followers. So all these platforms that you actually care about, the objective you care about is to increase your streams. It's not to run Facebook ads. You want to increase your streams. So Symphony is built around helping you run ads to increase those specific goals. But the beauty is because we're talking to everything, we'll tell you the actual impact on that goal versus Facebook or YouTube or anything else you may use by hand. So if some one platform isn't working as well as another, you know, it might tell you like, hey, maybe like your TikToks aren't the move. You know what I mean?

Maybe you need to be doing more on Facebook or something. 100%. That's where we want to go to, we're not fully there yet with like the recommendations, but the beauty is we have a lot of artists' kind of campaigns to reference in terms of like what's a great campaign, what's an average campaign, what's a bad campaign. And now the interesting part is we're gonna take that feed it to AI. And now you have the AI in real time recommending what you you should do with your campaign. It's like, yo, you should actually pause this campaign because this ad asset isn't working. Or it's trash, bro. it's real bad. We're gonna find a nice way to say it, but we want to save people money ultimately and save them time, right? So we have to be honest. It just stops it for you. Like, bro. Yo, like reconsider please, you know, go back to the drawing board. Um homie tip. Just just give it a break, let it breathe. Let's move on to something else. Imagine ChatGPT telling you like you're trash, bro. Try again. In nicer terms. So the goal is like, you know, how do we give like this this educational layer on top with all the data you're getting? Because I think data is great.

Context is more important than data, and how you use that data with that context is the real secret sauce and the golden golden place you want to be. For sure. So, you know, we have a lot of up-and-coming artists. At what point should an artist start running ads? Generally speaking, most artists should start testing ads early on to at least see the cities and countries that are resonate with your music. Because on Symphony, you run 50 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever. You're gonna see the whole graph of like top cities, top ages, top genders, top demographics. Very pretty, very sexy, very easy to understand. Um, but I recommend starting small, 20 bucks, 30 bucks per release. Within a few releases, you're gonna see which cities are really hitting for your type of sound for your type of genre, that at that point scale up based on what you think is working the best. Um a lot of artists don't have money though, right? Like a lot a lot of artists are starting out just paying out of pocket. So I also recommend doing things like on Symphony, you can make a pre-save for free, right? And that now you're collecting email addresses from your fans.

We also pull in their location, their name from these streaming platforms if we can. Um, so you can also, without spending money on Symphony, still unlock data, still unlock emails, still unlock locations, whatever you want to with these audiences. And that could also be a starting point for when it's actually time to start running ads of who you actually target city-wise, age-wise, location wise. Do pre-save campaigns actually work. Pre-save campaigns are the most surefire way to break down the anonymous barriers that every social streaming platform puts in front of you and your audience, right? There's a lot of people that are like, what the fuck does this even do? bro? Well, I think that they're thinking they're gonna get X amount of more streams from the pre-saves. Okay, so what- he's saying it's about the data. What's the goal then? What what how should what let's let's change the mindset? Let's shift the mindset for these artists who want to do pre-save campaigns. 100% because I agree. Most of them think, hey, if I do a pre-save camp campaign and it does, you know, does well, I'm gonna get on rap caviar. That's what they think.

Or at least I'm gonna get on all these people's like front page of their Spotify and they're gonna stream my song all day when it comes out. Okay, so is that fair to say that's probably not accurate? It it's true, it's true. It does, it does like help with the radio if you get a certain amount of pre-saves, depending on what these fans listen to, it might trigger different Discover weeklies, you know. Obviously, at volume editorial. Sure. Streaming is great for building a streaming audience. Okay, but if you want to build a career in a business, what's more important than streams is owning your data, your emails, phone numbers, names, locations, owning these these data points that you you can use to reach out to your audience and talk to them, sell things to them, whatever. That is where the pre-save is the most important in my mind, right? It's if you're rolling out, I'm sure you guys do this too, right? You're rolling out a really fire song. You're gonna spend two weeks to promoting it with short form content. And you're not gonna tell your fans to go and do anything in those two weeks. You're just gonna be like, consume this content and stream the song when it comes out. The way I see it is you could use those two weeks, you're gonna be posting anyway.

Tell your fans to go pre-save. You might get a hundred pre-saves, you might get five, you might get 10. You'll get you might get five emails, 10 emails, a hundred emails. So that one two-week period that you use to roll out your release might be a set amount of pre-saves, but now you're also coming out of it with an email list, a phone number list that will help you build your merch business, your touring business, even your streaming business. So in my mind, it's an investment in the long term of your business. The short-term streams are great, but you know, streaming is not paying the average artists, you know, living wages nowadays. It's really not. You know, it's a great place that's a top of funnel, but the real opportunity is get these email addresses, figure out who your fans are, and then you can start monetizing them. Damn, bro. Because our audience is. I've been thinking about pre-saves all wrong, bro. Pre-saves are great for the Drakes and the Taylor Swifts, but you know, not our audience. Drake and Taylor aren't tapped into the one more time podcast. No, I think I think that's huge, man. It is for sure.

Different way of thinking about it. Okay, so so you know, when it comes to ads, like what type of goals should an artist have when it comes to running ads? Yeah, I think one is like if you just are dropping content, dropping um, you know, like songs, whatever, ads are really good to help you determine which one you should focus on, right? Because if you think about it, the algorithm will naturally top out on any platform you use. Um, but we've had artists on Symphony that will take 20 bucks, spread it across across five different songs they've released, and then by the end of those campaigns, they know which song is resonating the most at the cheapest cost and driving them the most streams and followers per dollar they're spending. And so, like, that's one one way I recommend people start using ads is like ABC test your music before you waste marketing budget on the thing you think is a single when the people actually have another single. So use the ads as an AR. Use the ads as an AR. Yeah, ABC test them because you know that's fire actually is, it's you can kind of do that with organic posting, but I feel like this hyper speeds up the process, right? Hyper speeds it up.

We have artists that do that, and like they'll test out 10 songs at once, 10 pieces of content, even and they're like, all right, bet. Like within a week, we know what's gonna hit. If we spend a thousand bucks on this, because Symphony tells you the cost per conversion to streams, cost per follower. They start working backwards off the math. They're like, Bet, I want to get a thousand streams, a thousand followers, ten thousand streams. This is how much I have to spend. And so it starts unlocking some of these very arbitrary, like ominous things like, you know, how do we get new streams? How do we get new followers? It's like actually it's a mathematical equation you can come out with if you do the advertising right. So, what math should they be doing though, right? Because I mean, you mentioned the you know economics of the streaming business model, right? And it's fucked, okay, which is why we have MAG on from even shout out even doing the Lord's work, trying to help people not just survive off of three tenths of a penny per stream. Um, but you know, if we're doing the math, right? You guys are showing us how much it costs for me to convert someone to be, you know, streaming my song. But if I'm paying more, that you know what I mean.

Like, what what financial metrics should we be looking at that make sense? You know what I mean? That make it like useful for the artist to do. 100%. It's a very common question we get because I'll just be honest, like, you're never gonna get that one to one ROI between a dollar spent on ads and just because of our streaming is I'm never getting three tenths a click on the ad. It's very different, right? Like 30 cents, 20, 20 to 30 cents per click is like generally good conversion. So you're getting three to five new fans for a dollar. I was gonna ask you that question. Yeah, it's like three to five. You got that. But um I think it's just a really important way to get past you the natural kind of reach that these platforms give you, right? Like the platforms will top you out as I'm sure you guys have dealt with this, and we dealt with this at Symphony. Naturally, you'll get this many views on a piece of content or this many streams, right? And so the ads are great for boosting up the awareness. But where it gets really interesting is when that awareness turns into streams and then followers on Spotify, followers on Instagram, right? So the way I see it is ads are a way to just get that top of funnel really warm and hot and bring them into a place where they're following you.

But then the next step after they're following you is get the email, get their data, and that's where things like Symphony pre-saves come in. It's all about getting the email, bro. It's the data, it's all about the marketing funnel. right? all about the marketing funnel with any business you have, right? I think in in music, especially there's this idea of like, I need to get hot quick, I need to get mass streams quick, right? But that's not how any business works, literally. Like, you're not going to a small digital business and being like, yo, like have you grown quick? You know, that's a very there's no panacea to building a sustainable business. The only panacea to building that is building your marketing funnel top to bottom from a place where you consistently are bringing in people that don't know about you, understanding them, and then monetizing them. And the the streaming, the music is kind of high up in the funnel. Exactly. There's got to be way more, right? Well, the the streams of the music. Yeah, yeah. No, it's fucked. I mean, but it it can't be the end goal. No, but it's something that I think we just, I don't know that anyone's thinking about it this way. Everyone just wants streams streams, bro.

They want their monthly listeners. They want to get checks straight from their music. Literally, Mag talked about the fact that like monthly listeners is it's such a fucking vanity metric that like only the music industry cares about. Yeah. Like no fan can even tell you how many monthly listeners their artists has. Yeah. Not fully. Like their favorite artists, stack ranking for the industry. Yeah. It's like it's such a weird clout thing that we somehow give a fuck about. But it's like, dude, someone with 10,000 monthly listeners, if those were actually 10,000 paying customers, yeah, versus a million monthly listeners, and none of them bought anything directly from the artist, who do the math. The other one, the the 10,000 monthly listener artist is winning every time. Any business you start up, a podcast business, an artist music business, a startup, tech startup, right? It's all about like how you finding people that don't know about you, and then getting to them to a place where they're supporting your business, right? Monetarily, ideally. Yeah. Um, that's not like a one-two. Like, I think a lot of companies are like, yeah, like like I was saying, like, boost your streams, boost your followers, and it's all these random playlists and all this random stuff, and then you see this and then this immediately, right?

That's not Symphony. Symphony is a tool that helps you take your music, your videos, your content, whatever you're putting out, and gives you all the tools to make it into a business. Because the way we set it up is it's not just ads or playlisting, whatever. It's every step of the marketing funnel from someone discovering your content through ads to then giving you their data to then at some point very soon segmenting those fans based on engagement so you know who to reach out to to try and monetize them. And that is the perspective shift that I think artists and a lot of creators are starting to realize. You know, it's not as easy, very obviously, it's not as easy as it was two years ago to get popping on TikTok, right? It's not as easy as as it was two years ago to get popping on Spotify, Instagram, any of these platforms. But the folks that do it and emerge on the other end with real sustainable businesses, build the marketing funnel top to bottom. They find new ways to get fans in through music, through content. They get the email addresses through things like pre-saves and then they sell them merch. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

And that's how you build a long-term music business. It's easy, right, for an artist to ask people to stream their music. It's like enjoy my music, come on this auditory journey with me that I, you know, created. But it's like now we're kind of like, we we need artists to be salesy, you know. We kind of need them to sell things more so. And a lot, I think a lot of them, most of them probably are not natural salespeople. It's uh we're in a very interesting world. I'm gonna get philosophical real quick. Let's go. bro. We're in a very interesting world where like any passion nowadays is monetizable, right? If you enjoyed writing back in the day for fun, intrinsically motivated, that is monetizable. If you wanted to make music for fun, that is now monetizable. If you want to just write code for fun, obviously monetizable. So, in a world where it's all monetizable, but then everyone's stack ranked by monthly listeners, and you have all these people that are just like uploading music as art, competing with people that are uploading music as a career. That's where I think it's it's we're kind of at, right? We're almost in a post-streaming era where you have like this very long tail, AI generated tracks, random BS on, on platforms, competing with artists that are really good at their craft and trying to build a long-term life in this business.

All that said, I think like it's we're in a very interesting world with streaming. And it's a world that I think requires artists, if they want to be a business person in this space, not an artist for the art, a business person. It requires them to think a little bit more like the CEO of their own tech startup, except their product is their art. Right? But it's just a it's a function, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with it. It's just a function of where we're at with the abundance of streaming and the what I was saying earlier, right? Easy to make content if you really care and want to make it, easy to upload it. So everyone has to change how they think about it, right? Like even Symphony. Ten years ago, if Symphony came out, there wouldn't have been uh, you know, enough of uh a marketplace for us to have competition. We might have just popped out and gone crazy. Ten years later, all these companies, right? LinkedIn bio, ads, playlisting, um, we have to play the same game, right? We can't just put out fire stuff anymore and expect people to find it. We have to work to find every single customer. But it starts with the content, then we get the email, and then they subscribe.

Same funnel. Hey, Henry here. Sorry to interrupt this podcast, but there is something I have to address. As many of you know here at one more time, we love doing live music reviews. We love hearing the music from our community and providing helpful feedback that is hopefully helping you further your career. But if there's one piece of advice that we are tired of giving, it's that your master is too quiet. We shouldn't have to turn up the volume for your song just to have to turn it back down for the next song. That's not good. But Henry, good mastering engineers are so hard to find and so expensive. Enter DistroKid's newest tool called Mixia. I master music myself, and while I don't think AI mastering will ever replace the quality you get from an experienced human mastering engineer, it's pretty damn good. And if you already distribute through DistroKid, you can now master unlimited tracks using Mixia. And if you don't, we have a link right here. You can sign up for DistroKid with 30% off, upload unlimited music yearly for an insanely cheap price. Humans perceive louder as better. It's dumb, but it's true. Use Mixia for a clean master, and you won't sound weak on that playlist. Let's get back to the episode.

So can an artist survive off of just paid ads as opposed to like being a content machine organically? I don't think in today's world, artists can survive off of paid ads into streaming, but I think they can survive off of using paid ads to drive streaming and followers that are then driven to give their email address or phone number to the artist, right? Like I think it's like you gotta follow that equation because like those followers and streams might add up over time over a long term period, but that like one stream from that one person is worth very little, but that one person's email address might be a $20 hoodie. That might be, or you know, $50 hoodie, whatever it might be thousands of streams worth of value off that one email address. Yeah. So my perspective, like ads were great. Symphony started off as the best ads platform in the game. We still are, but our worldview is that we just want to take all these tools that help you build a business in today's world and centralize them beyond just ads, everything below that as well. So, what kind of ads do you see working the best when it comes to converting into listeners?

So, once again, I know we have talked shit about like just getting people to stream, but people do want people to hear their music. It starts, of course. Yeah, like I'm not sure people are giving email addresses and phone numbers on to an artist whose music they don't like. Of course, it's just not happening, right? So let's just take that as table stakes of like they have to eventually like the music. And so, you know, what kind of ads are working best to convert a you know, person on Instagram to a streaming listener? Yeah, it's actually like two or three types of content I've seen, right? And it's it always changes like three years ago, before four years ago, like before like the TikTok era and that like we all know about it was like produced professional content. Then TikTok came out and invented the front facing the opposite, like the opposite, right? Dimly, rich. I'm rapping my song. Yeah, usually shitty audio. Props to the folks that cracked it because they built a big following early on and like they were making that sort of content for cheap. For cheap. Way back in the day, right? It was easy to get followers back in the day. Yeah. Um, but I think interestingly, we're kind of at a middle ground nowadays where like people are generally the saturation is so hard on every platform that people have moved past trends, you know, in a sense, right?

There's like content of artists talking to the camera, but then there's also highly produced content that does really well. So what I see it is that all right, you are either making pieces of content that has a really good hook that's facing you, um, or you're making quick cuts from a music video clip, and those two things work really well. And so, in the in the like raw, you know, talking to the camera, are are they just talking? Are they singing? It's a hook, right? It's like POV, this, or like, have you ever had this situation? Catchy title text, yeah, you know, but then song, but then song, right? Okay, but you gotta catch them. A lot of people are scrolling Instagram on mute. So you got to like our TikTok, or not TikTok, but Instagram especially. Yeah, so you gotta catch them with the hook. I heard a lot of like 40% of people are on mute or something crazy. A lot of them. dude, the amount of posts that I like that I haven't listened to, yeah, is insane. It's a like machine Boom, boom, boom. I've started to just like watch my own consumer behavior on platform, and I'm like, this is crazy. And I'm like, this just makes me rethink the podcast content sometimes. This is what's happening with us.

This is crazy, yeah. But yeah, okay, so so like hook and then song, hook, song. Um, well, hook, you unmute with the hook, yep. Song's playing already. Uh huh. So put maybe like three minutes before the hook of the song, or three seconds, excuse me, before the hook of the song. Yeah. Because three seconds in they can unmute it and it's gonna sound like a hook. that's a that's a cool little. Don't come in first, yeah. Yeah, but think about how quickly you're scrolling, right? And like something has to catch your eye for you to even stop. And if it's a sponsored, you're probably not even likely as likely to stop scrolling, right? So the content has to be eye-catching enough in the first three seconds to get them to stop scrolling. So it's the first three seconds matter to the most, right? Whether it's text from a POV or like a quick, we've seen ads are just like you know, two seconds and a quick cut to another another scene, works just as well. Um, but the idea is that you know the ad has to be good enough to stop them from scrolling because that's a natural behavior that people have on these platforms. Pattern interrupt, pattern interrupt.

So if I'm an artist and I'm like, fuck my like I'm spending money on ads, this shit ain't working, bro. Like, what, what's going on, man? Is there a lot of times where you're looking at the content that they're running ads against and you're like, It's bad. You're like, bro, like how did you think that was gonna stop a random person, bro? Well, the thing is you can't blame artists, right? Because a lot of the education around what's like we try our best with like Symphony University and like educational content we put out there to let people know, but I think you can't control the input, you know. Like you can give them best practices and try and like get people educated to the best practices, but the input is still the input. Like, do you recommend that they always post organically first to see how it does, right? I think that's so underrated, Always, always always try it first. Because going back to what I was saying about ABC testing songs with ads, you can use the algorithm to ABC content, ABC test content for you, right? Yeah. So I've seen artists be like, all right, I'm gonna post these five clips this week, and the best one from this week for this one song is the one that becomes the ad. You let the algorithm spend the money for you, spend the money for you, so to speak.

It's proven that people like it. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Double down. Yeah, why wouldn't it work? It sounds so obvious. I don't know that everyone's doing it. I don't think most people are. I think people are creating these like new song out now, whatever ads. People like put a lot of time into a piece of content. I've done it, you know, where I'm like, this is gonna be the fucking one. Like this is never the one I'm gonna put ad dollars. It's never the one. It's not that one. I don't know if we've ever gotten one right. It's always a silly one that we just didn't expect. Have we ever gotten one right? We see, yeah. Have we ever been like this gonna be a banger? And it's a banger? Occasionally, but like not often enough. It's built in It's built in. It's pretty rare that we're right. That's the hardest part. Can I put like three gems real quick? Yes. Every artist here can use them right now. All right. One. Do we ever make? Listen, I got gems for days. Let's go. What I just said. Use the algorithm to ABC test your content. Whether that's TikTok, YouTube Shorts, Instagram, you get the likes, the views, even the clicks to profile back. Within a week of posting five videos, you're gonna know which one's hitting.

Yes. Save your money. Let's go. Step two, save money. Um on Spotify, every single song has three metrics next to it. Um, streams, listeners, and saves. And over the years, I've learned that, you know, generally speaking, we use a lot of gut feeling, especially in music. A and R is like it's gut feeling, right? Like this is gonna be hit. This is the one. This is the one, right? And then you go out there in the marketplace. I've seen this multiple times with labels, like major labels, right? They'll spend like tens of thousands of dollars on this single, that single album comes out, and then none of those singles actually hit. It's just random other songs on the project. And you start seeing that data because on Spotify you have streams, right? So one metric I use streams divided by listeners. How many streams is the average listener providing to this song? I'm listening to this song over and over again. Earworm. They call it the earworm back in the day, right? You got the earworm right there. Shaboozey for me right now. Oh, oh, that's a song. Tipsy? Yeah, bro. Tipsy?

Yeah. It's so good. It's crazy. I played it 200 times. Essential season right now. CC freestyle. Nice. Nice. Nice. Do saves matter? Saves matter, right? Saves sound crazy to me. I call it like saving a song is wild. On Spotify. Yeah, that means you I want it. Add to your library, right? So two metrics on Spotify that every artist should look at. Streams for listener, the stickiness ratio or earworm ratio, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. And then the save rate, right? You know, you have a hundred listeners and 20 people saving it. That means that you know, 100 people listen to your song and only 20 people are like add it to my library. Why don't they just give us this metric? It's meant to be is so you could go and spend your money on Spotify Marquee and all that. It's fucking annoying. It's all part of the game, you know. Why wouldn't they just make that like, hey, these are probably some ones you should maybe try this one, buddy? Maybe, maybe Hint, hint, nudge, nudge. that stream to you know, listener ratio. is pretty crazy. Put a little like glitter effect on that song for us or something. Give us a fucking hint, Spotify. Star next to the dollar sign, like we're the moneymaker right here. But yeah, those two metrics have guided a lot of successful campaigns for us because we we're not gonna pick the single, we're gonna let the people tell us what the single is.

Yeah, and these two metrics guide that. We'll take these 10 songs, we'll do the math for all of them, and within you know a few few seconds we know which one we should put money behind. And then the third one is I'm big on compounding effects, right? Like on Symphony with pre-saves, we have this tool called Forever Saves. You guys know that average pre-save process is annoying because you have to go and tell your fans every release, go pre save, pre save, pre save. By the time the album comes out after a few singles, no one wants to go and do it. So I'm big on compounding, right? If a fan's taking one action, how do you turn that into like three or four actions? Symphony has forever pre-saves, forever saves. So we let you getting crazy. We're going deep, man. You have me on, I'm going down the rabbit hole. Let's go. So forever saves is a it's pre-saves are free on Symphony. Forever saves are a subscriber-only feature, 20 bucks a month. Um, but it lets fans pre-save, and then after they pre-save on their streaming platform of choice, they can give you their email and subscribe. And when they subscribe, Symphony in the background stores their email, their name, their location, whatever we can kind of grab alongside their uh login details that they provide when they pre-save. And so now in Symphony, the way it's set up tracks every release you drop.

So now every single time you drop, guess what happens? Your song is automatically saved. Let them cook album is automatically saved into your fans' libraries. That one interaction that happened months ago is still hitting six months later on your album. Don't make them do it again, Megh. Why the fuck would we make them do it again? Can I drop one more? I got one more. Of course, one more, please, bro. one more Chico, right? Let's go. So going back to ads real quick, everyone is like, all right, I'm running ads, I'm gonna drive it to my song on Spotify or my album. I say, don't do that. And we'll have features on Symphony that help with this process. Drive them to a playlist that you own. Make a playlist, make your pin playlist on your artist profile, drive them to that playlist, make your song number one, make another song number two, make another song number three. It's your catalog, right? And then mix in a few larger artists, maybe mid, say, a few hundred thousand monthly listeners, a few million if you're at that scale, monthly listeners larger than you. Mix them in in the playlist, right?

Maybe someone hits finds a playlist and they hit shuffle. And now Spotify's algorithm is like, all right, they're listening to you, and then all the other artists, and then Drake. And then Drake. And then post. And then post. Spotify is now putting them together. Boom, boom, boom. Guess what happens next week with the Radio Discover Weekly? So that one dollar you spent on ads that people always want to spend on the song page or the album page. Instead, send them to a playlist. You get one stream, you get two streams, you get three streams. You're in the radio discover weekly. They're liking the playlist, following it. They're following you. So that one dollar turned into five different actions. Hit it. Just hit it. Just go crazy. Mic drop. Mic drop. Get them all. Holy shit. That's how you save money and like really make it far with one dollar. Compound. Whoa whoa. I'm an immigrant man. I got I got cheap tricks for days, you know, but it's all about cheap bastards and I love it. Man, it's all the service to the artist, man. Fire. Oh my god.

That playlist one is that's different. Okay. Haven't heard that one before. I've heard a lot of them, but that was different. So that's amazing. Um, just like we're kind of getting the organic uh reach to AR stuff for us when it comes to content. Is it always something where we should be running ads against the most popular song? Right. Or like, how does that work? The way I see it, right? Is like you will, unless you're spending like a hundred million dollars, literally, you're never gonna top out and finding new audiences. And so you could have a song that has a high savor from three years ago. It's still new to literally probably a billion people on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook. And so hypothetically, we've seen artists do this. Well, they'll run ad campaigns all year, right? If you find that song, keep your ad campaign on, spend a hundred bucks a month every month for the entire year. And if you pick the right song with some of these metrics that I've laid out, you will always keep growing. Think about it, right? Yeah, a new song. You might scroll and see a song, you don't know when it came out. You click listen now, you don't know when the song came out.

Spotify makes you scroll for the release date. You don't know what's going on. Unless you're the nerd like me, that's like, I want to see the label and the credits and the release date. Like no one fucking cares. Is the song good or not? They just want to hear the song. Is it good or not? That's why catalog has been going viral on TikTok consistently, right? A song from 20 years ago still hitting today. It will still hit 20 years from now. You gotta use that perception to push your catalog because you might have hits sitting there that you just haven't marketed yet. Wow. Wow. Um, all right. So I know you've done some, you know, successful campaigns with some bigger artists on the platform. I mean, we had Amber Grimes on here, you know, LVRN uses Symphony, I believe, with at least some, if not all of their artists, right? Do you have like a favorite case study of you know, I like of an artist whose campaign you've been like super intimate with? And I guess if so, who's the artist if you're allowed to share? What did they do specifically? You know what I mean? Something that our artists, you know, community can take away from this. Tell us a story, Meg. Oh man.

Um, it's one of your favorite ones. Cash Cobain. Cash. Ooh, he's going crazy. He's on a fucking run right now. He's on a run. Cash Cobain. Cash Cobain's on a run. No ads, actually. No ad spend. Really? Um, Cash Cobain. Tell us more, Megh. Very Smart fan engagement, right? Very smart fan engagement. And so they use Symphony's pre-saves initially. Um, you know, I think it was sometime last year. They got all these forever saves. You know, it was like early on, though, before Cash is you know, the cash we know today. And so they're getting all these email addresses from their fans. They could see the location of where those fans were. And so what they did was they went around and then they took the a QR code. They made a QR code of of um like that our data collector link where you gotta give your email, phone number, whatever. They made a posters around the city, you know, based on the data they were getting from these pre-saves initially. And now these like posters said, Cash Cobain, come to our show, scan this QR code. You know, you scan the QR code. Now you have to give your email, number, name, so they're getting more data. So they just did that over and over and over again in New York, you know, doing all these underground shows, collecting data every single time.

And over time that started compounding into like, you know, obviously he's been going crazy underground, crossed the chasm into the mainstream and like has a crazy summer ahead of him. Maybe, you know, might have the song of the summer. Wow. But it all started with this really smart pre-save strategy that turned into a data collection strategy that turned into an offline strategy that turned into a hit or a few hits. Okay. The offline strategy. I got so many ideas like that though, right? Because I think we're give us one. Um, all right. So one. Um, so simple one, right? People don't know why I've broken it down now. You know, hopefully, artists know that pre-saves give you all this data. We talk to artists, we talk to people in the industry. A lot of people don't talk to fans, right? Like, we're all fans inherently. As a fan, why do you pre-save? Why do you pre-save? Right? Why do you pre-save? Yeah. So the way I see it is that use digital or physical scarcity to incentivize fans to take actions in the future. So, one simple idea that I I've been sharing this idea for months.

I haven't seen anyone use this. So, someone listening, please use it. Um, let's do it. Simple idea, right? How do you make a fan feel of value? How do you make a super fan? Everyone's like super fans. How do you make that? It's actually just making fans feel like they're part of the journey, right? Like a lot of artists are like, yo, you're on the island, I'm on the ship, and you're watching my story from far away. You know what artists need to do is bring fans onto that ship with them while the artist captains. Yacht party. party. party. Yes. Today. Um, so one idea, right? Rum. You have these 50 emails from this pre-save campaign you did. You know, two weeks later, your music video is coming out. Take those 50 emails of those fans that forever saved, right? That took that one step beyond pre-saving into giving you their email address. Put their names in the damn music video credits. Put their names in a description. I talked about that. Who did that? I think maybe NFR. Cal Scrubby. Yeah, Cal Scrubby. Cal Scrubby's an artist who did this for uh merch buyers. Hell yeah. Yeah. So same philosophy. Exactly. Exactly. Reward the people that take the extra step. Yes.

Reward. Rinse and repeat. We're in an era now where, like, maybe like a year ago, I was preaching ads, ads, ads, you know, a few years ago. No, it's still ads, It's still ads. It's still ads. But the way I see it is that we need to bring the artist and the fan relationship more into equilibrium, right? Because fans have their pick of the draw. They could pick anyone to listen to, right? They're picking you. As artists, generally, the artist is like, I dropped this song, go stream. I dropped this video, go stream. I dropped this merch, go stream, I dropped the tour, go stream. Literally, it's a push. So annoying. We just said that. that's how it is, right? Like generally speaking. Yes. Always pushing to your fans. Yeah. What I'm proposing is start dropping things into your rollout that pull them in. That pre-save pulls them into your world because they're starting to see their names in your music video credits, right? Or give, you know, I've seen I've done this myself actually. Like we'll we took those emails from the Forever Saves, and then we literally went on live on IG Live and put all these names into a spinner app, you know? Mm-hmm. IG Live spun the spinner, pick three fans that pre-saved and give them a poster.

Mm-hmm. But same thing, right? It's like, yo, like I just like subscribed to this artist, and like I got a free poster out of it. Now this fan is sharing that experience. They have a story with you. You turn that push Wow. into a pull. They are evangelizing you because you rewarded them for their fandom. Artists and fans need to be back into the equilibrium, and these are ways to kind of do it. Reward your fans for supporting you because they can support anyone. Now that we know how valuable the pre-save is, we can put some value behind it. All this data out there, no matter who you are, right? Just an Instagram like public persona, right? Podcasts and live interview series and artists, you have all this data out there because you're posting the seven platforms, most likely. You probably are. Everyone is, right? Because you kind of have to. All those seven platforms have different audiences. None of them talk to each other. None of the tools you use talk to each other. You remember your link tree does not talk to your Shopify, does not talk to your email list, does not talk to your social media platforms until Symphony. Everything is centralized, and that's how you save money and really put every dollar to work the right way. For sure.

So outside of you know the data around like how ads are performing. Um, what kind of data is most helpful to artists as far as just like their audience goes, right? Like for me, if I'm an artist trying to better understand my fan base, what kind of data points can I get or should I want to get? You know what I mean? Are there any other things that we can look for, you know, look for? I think like when it comes to demographics, right? I think location matters a lot. It's huge. Like, this is the biggest one of the biggest things, right? It determines where you could potentially tour in the future, determines where you could potentially run ads in the future, even determines how you should price your merch. Because if you got mad fans in Brazil compared to mad fans in Canada, very different markets, very different ways of thinking about monetizing those markets when it's time. Okay, so so location, physical location, city, state, physical location. Because that's like the starting point to start understanding where your people are across the world. Okay, all right. So that's huge. Is there anything else that we can get? That's huge. I think engagement rate too is really big, right? Like the save ratio or the save to listener ratio, all these different things I was mentioning.

Looking at not just the raw value, like I got this many pre-saves, but that conversion rate of like I got this many pre-saves, and 50% of those gave me the email address, right? Over time, over releases, that's how you start judging if you're if your work is hitting and resulting in more ROI with your actions or not. Is there any other like data we can get though as far as demo? Like, can we get interest? Like my fans love fucking skateboarding. Like, can we get that anywhere? I will say we're rolling out a really big feature this summer that's very oriented around social media data. Okay. And then obviously TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, all these platforms have all these unique data points, right? They don't want to share it, huh? They don't want to share it, but yeah, they will give it to you by API so you can access it, right? So you log into Symphony. Imagine you have all these platforms. You're seeing the location overlap, the engagement overlap, and any demographics information they're giving to. It's like, yo, we analyze all your platforms, and these are the fans you should target with ads because we tracked all your data. Yeah, because that's where we want to go to.

Okay, because that's what I was, you know. I made a video recently that it was kind of creepy in the title. It was it was stalk your fans. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and just the concept was like take a random subset of maybe 10 of your most recent followers and 10 people that have commented on a post and really go crazy with like looking through all their photos, uh, looking through the accounts that they follow to really try and get a good idea of like what this person likes and what they look like. And you know, are they young? Are they old? Are they into skateboarding? Are they into football? Are they, you know, a fisherman, you know, whatever, I get, you know, into like southern shit, you know what I mean? Like hunting and like whatever. Um it's like Southern shit. So we just don't we're in the South, bro. I don't know. Whatever. It doesn't sound like you sound like you have no idea what the South is. I'm from Atlanta, it's not exactly the South. Y'all got cracker barrels down here, right? Yeah, we do. We don't have them in the West Coast. You don't have to, it's not required. Is that our claim to fame?

I just saw one. I was like, whoa, I've never seen one of these. Did you go? I did not go. Okay. Yeah, it's fine. Anyways, but no, so like can we get any of that in the future? I think the best way to do that is like just doing it organically, right? Like to your point. Um, you know, you'll recognize sometimes like who your audience might be. And then like, I like thinking about things that grab more data from folks to help inform that information. Like Coilerae recently used Symphony for, just asking her fans which short, which tour, which song she should she should perform on tour, right? And she could she could have made that, excuse me, in uh a Q&A on Instagram, but she didn't because now she's getting the name email location, plus their favorite record, right? We're breaking that it's all about breaking down data barriers and tying it back to one email. And so that's one example of what she did. But another reason, another thing could be like, you know, how'd you hear about me? What's your favorite color? What's your astrology sign? You do that over multiple releases, you start building a profile of your fans, and Symphony is all one fan that you're starting to see get filled out.

And I think that's how you over time really concretely know instead of maybe analyzing Instagram and like guessing if this is it, that's how you really know who your audience is, but it takes time to build out that profile. But once you have it built out, you know very much about your fans. Coilerae could hypothetically just email a fan and be like, hey, I'm coming to your city and I'm gonna play this song that you love. Like, we'd love to see you there. It's kind of crazy. That's you get real targeted. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. Henry. Yeah. We've entered a final segment of the podcast. Ooh. Let's go, Meg. Let's go. This has been dense with gems. Like, dude. We get guests with a lot of gems, but like quick. man, man, I'm trying to unload, give y'all some good content. Fire, man. No. This is really good, man. We're gonna see if we can squeeze out a few more. This is the rapid fire rampage. I'm gonna break it down into three parts. Let's run it. Starting with some short answer questions. Here we go. Um I have so many notes, bro. Thank you.

I have so many notes. Yeah. Oh, and we have clips for days. Yeah. I mean, We're gonna run some ads. on it. Maybe test it. Maybe test it. Remember, follow the tips. It's gonna be great. It's gonna get real meta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know a guy that knows a guy. Yeah. Um, actually, before I start this, uh, yeah, we we kind of talked off camera, but like, what about yeah, podcasts and symphony? Like, how is that gonna work? What is the plan for that? If you think about the tools and platforms that artists care about, they're actually all the same as podcasters, right? Like, you guys, I'm sure have a Discord. You guys have a Discord, you got Instagram content. Sign up for the Discord Sign up for the Discord, yeah. Join the Discord. We're going crazy in there. We're there. We're listening to your music. We are all networking together, we're doing great things. Yes, we are making bread, making fans together. That's right. Um, but you guys have a Discord, you guys are making Instagrams, TikToks, have a Twitter, have a YouTube, put out podcasts on Spotify, Apple Music. It's very similar. We just don't have a beat. Same thing, though, right? You can have a beat.

Play some tracks over here real quick. Yeah. Um so it's gonna work very similarly, actually, right? Like it's all about not the interface or like who we're targeting for, it's about the principle of how we set up the platform to use data to help you out. It feels like it could absolutely apply to us. That's like the future stage for us. All you have to do is change a few words, bro. Yeah, coming soon. Coming soon. All right, let's get into this. Meg, on a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to recommend the one more time podcast to a friend or colleague? 15. Let's go. 15. Make it 20, actually. Let's go. I knew I liked this guy. Quick, quick selfish one, real quick. Thanks, Henry. Good work, buddy. You know, I do it. So um, this is another one. We've kind of hinted at this throughout the entire episode, but it's kind of nice to condense it maybe into one clippable, munchable moment. Give us your best three tips for musicians looking to run better ads. Just quick off the rip, like do this. Your ads will get better. Quick cuts in your ad content.

You know, nobody wants to sit there watching a slow video, make it boom, boom, boom, quick cuts to grab their attention to test your content out. Don't waste money on Instagram. Don't even spend money unless you're ready to start spending money. Use organic content to test it out. And number three, use the data in front of you to make better decisions. There's so many artists I've seen on all these campaigns, and it's like, bro, like this campaign did two times better than the other one. You're just doubling out on this because you think it's because you think it's better, but the data is telling you something obvious. So use all these indicators as a guiding light so you save money and make more money in the long term. Fire. I knew that was gonna be so good. So glad that I thought it was gonna be the I thought it was gonna be the same as what we talked about like earlier. I knew it was gonna be like I got tips for days. It was all new, bro. Easier. Meg, invent a sport. Whoa. Um change of gears. Uh ultimate happy. It's where we take hats. Okay and we basically play Ultimate Fisbee with them, but the goal is to land it on someone's head. Ooh, he just looked in front of him and came up with that immediately.

Scotch is fire. Ideal machine. Listen, it might have been the shot before. You got my creative juices flowing, you know. Whiskey is his superpower. I should've taken two. I might've dropped more jobs. No, I think the one was like you're happy. I'm sorry. We're doing another one after this. We're gonna talk. Sign me up. Um give us your vision, like quick vision just for the future of Symphony, automated marketing, AI, just the whole spiel. Like as a whole. Where are we headed towards? What do you see? Yeah, I think in the next 10 years is gonna be half a billion businesses and creatives online trying to make a living off their passion. And I think all of them deserve affordable tools to know their audiences, to reach more of an audience, and to ultimately get to a place where they can monetize them. Five subscriptions is the way today. Symphony is one affordable, powerful, and centralized. We're building that platform for the next you know generation of these creatives. God, he's got his elephant, his elevator pitch down packed, bro. And that's kind of like gonna screw me up for two questions from now, but we'll get to that.

All right. Um but for this one, your dog now speaks English. Oh. But you have to choose an accent. What did it speak before? It didn't speak. Okay, well. But it's it is English. And your dog now speaks. Okay. I was like, maybe we could start there. What accent would you like your dog to speak? British for sure. British accent? In it. In it. In it. The uh little baby doing the it was horrible. That's why I said British songs. It was top of mind, man. Dude, that's been going viral. It was really bad. It's crazy. I think I'm going Jamaican, pretty sure. Off rip. I don't know. Jamaican dog. Anyway. Um, so yeah, taken from the last few here. Record a short, let's say 15, 20 second ad for Symphony right now. Let's see what you got. Boom. Have you got a lot of things? This is the Us trying to be the one. That's the one. That's what we look like. That's what we look like. This is us trying to do anything. Are you tired of paying for feature FM, Linktree, LinkinBio, Shopify, email list, all these tools to run your marketing? Yes.

We're done with that. Meet Symphony. We've taken every single tool you need to market yourself and grow your audience and business and centralize it for $20 a month. Free to sign up, $20 bucks a month forever. Let's go. Okay, that wasn't us. He was way better than us. We take so many tools. That was good. So that was amazing for on the spot. Seriously. Last one of the short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Oh shit. Definitely has to be shit. Oh shit. Like shit. Let's go. Oh shit was like, I didn't even know if that was the lead up. No, it's just a word. It came out natural, I think it has to be that one. And that's it. First response. That's mine, too, for sure. Part two is the this or that. I'm gonna give you two choices. Just pick one. Starting with Google AdWords or Symphony OS. Symphony OS. Fuck you, Google AdWords. We don't need you anymore. You're out there. We work with them, you know? But it's like you symphony AdWords. Run Symphony running ads. Exactly. Henry's always starting unnecessary beef with like our guests. Our guests, competitors. But like some other partners, bro. I support our guests.

Until someone from Google comes on, I don't give a fuck. Who's using AdWords? We had someone from Google on. Oh, snap. We literally had Rachel Jackson from YouTube on the podcast. I guess that is Google. Well, she hasn't. Okay, well, the episode's Not out yet. Technically it's not. Yeah, who it might, it might not have who knows if it ever clears YouTube. YouTube has to clear it. In which case, fuck Google AdWords. You're Symphony. You're Symphony. 10 out of 10 times. Symphony every time. That's right. Dirty bathroom or dirty office? Oh. Office. Wait in the merch line or see the opener. Opener. Keep TikTok or ban TikTok. Keep Kendrick or Drake. Oh, you're getting political with this one. Man, I'm gonna say I really liked Kendrick songs and this beef. Um, but you know, it was a moment in time for everyone. It was. I appreciate it happening as well. Stocks are crypto. Stocks. Always farting or always hiccuping. Whoa, hiccuping. So you gotta think about that one though.

That one was pretty easy for me. Yeah, but when the more you think about it, like you can't talk. Hiccups are painful. You can't talk if you're hiccuping. They interrupt your talking. Fart is kind of a real it's kind of a release. It kind of feels good. But always like you were walking around you're in a coffee shop, boom, classroom, boom, always in pain, hiccuping. I don't know. That one, You should have thought about that one longer. I'm just gonna say that. Maybe I should have. Last one of the this or the Henry has clearly thought about this one. No, listen. It's deeper than it. Never mind. Last one of this Jesus Christ. Become a full-time music producer or leave the music industry forever. Can I still work on Symphony? No, you cannot. Music producer. Okay. Nice one. That's what we were hoping for. You can basically just use AI and be a producer these days. Not saying you would do that. Alright. Our producers are we we work with real producers around here. Anyway, the last part is the word association.

Meg, I'm gonna say one word. You just give me the first word. That sounds dangerous. All right. It is. This is the dangerous one. You you called it for sure. But you get there's no thinking, there's no friction. Just give me whatever you think of. Eyes closed, I'm ready. Here we go. Starting with music. Amazing. Caffeine. Daily. Gold. Mine. Bro. Us. My man. Ads. Symphony. Kanye West. Carnival. Calamari. Amazing. Happiness. Necessary. AI. Cool. Business. Daily. Lil. Meg. Lil Meg. That one got me. He's a full-time music producer now. Yeah, no. He needs a name. Lil Meg. He needs a producer name now, remember? Prod by Lil Meg. And finally, Symphony.

OS. Let's go. Well, I got one for you. I got one for you. One time. One more time. Podcast. One more time. Podcast. Podcast. I got I got a sound clip for that. One more time. Ooh. Let's go. As always, please like, comment, and subscribe. Pre-save, forever save. Every podcast episode from now on. Link is in the bio because Meg's gonna code it for us. Even if it's not GA, bro. We are coming in hot with the Forever Save Podcast. The homies only. Link, let's go. But man, holy shit, gems on gems. Such a good one, man. We're here each and every week. Until next time, Henry, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Getting the fuck out of here. Peace, y'all.