How to Get Millions of Views on Music Content ft. Citizen the Artist

Today on the podcast, we sit down with one of the most consistently viral artists on the internet. Citizen the Artist has generated over one billion views across social media, with basically every video getting one million plus views. And in this episode, we broke down the entire process behind it. How important is what's happening in the first one to three seconds? Ten. Okay. That's it. Yeah. Budget. Zero. Zero. One. This guy has completely mastered the psychology of attention. And we pulled up some of his biggest videos during the episode so he could break them down. We're talking about hooks, pacing, ideas, execution, all the s*** on his checklist to get a million likes on a video. Not a million views, a million likes. We call it the mill liker for short. It's always the same principles. We shoot for no language barrier tropes and scenarios that are familiar. We go for like for the whole video length. And while most of us are just not going to achieve the level of cinematography and editing that Citizen does, the principles he shares are universal. There's a certain threshold of quality that we're trying to reach.

If it's not good enough, I don't want that to represent the work we're doing. And we could not finish this episode without asking the question that matters most. How does going this viral actually impact the business? Just because you go viral doesn't mean you make any money. Like you still might be broke as f right? Um I wanted to kind of kick things off because this whole episode is going to be focused around like just getting inside your process, right? Because I think you've you've literally created a viral content machine, right? I mean, you uh like I said, you consistently get views and gain attention on the internet on social media. So I want to kind of kick things off and just set the stage for like where things rank in terms of importance when it comes to going viral. So I'm gonna have you rate things on a scale of one to ten as far as how important you think they are when it comes to going viral with music content. It's like a mini game. This is kind of my style. I mean, yeah, I just I just thought it was a fun way to just kind of get where each head's

at, you know what I mean? Let's go. Get going, yeah. Start with a little quiz. Yeah, exactly. There's there's no grade here. Um is there well, do I know the right answers? Can I just like I hope so. Based on your resume, we assume I was gonna say whatever you say is the right answer. Yeah. Um, all right, so let's do it. Number one, the music, like the song itself. Being good. Scale of one to ten. How important is that when it comes to going viral? The song being good, I would say is a bit of a different metric from just uh the song being interesting. You can definitely go viral with a bad song. I can blow up a bad song with maybe not convert it to streams, but get views on it on the promo for it. Scale of one to ten, how important is it? It it it affects it greatly. So I'd say like seven or eight. Okay, yeah. Especially because I'm building the the content deeply around like what the thematic um cohesion of the song is itself. So And if the song is interesting, but maybe not good.

It might get views, but you're not converting like lifelong fans here with that. We need the good music for that. Right, yeah, yeah. Okay. Next one, budget. Zero. Zero. Maybe one. So throw one in there. Okay, one. Do you guys You guys hear that out there by the way? You guys that I know you don't have maybe a budget, like it's it can happen. All right, next one. Location. Three. Ooh, shocking, honestly. Cause you seem to be like, in my mind, the king of like really interesting locations. I feel like you're you're really good at scouting locations and and choosing locations. So I'm kind of on that. I've put a lot of work into that recently, but it's much more like a overall brand perception thing or like a world building, letting people really get sucked into the song. It's it's more of like a overarching rollout per to rollout thing, more so than a uh singular video situation. Like we you could get a million likes on a video kind of anywhere. Okay. Okay, good. Love it. All right. How about how important is what's happening in the first one to three seconds? Ten.

Okay, that's it. Yeah. Hook. Yep. Guys, we have to get there faster. Okay. Next one. On screen text hooks. Seven or eight, probably. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. You can biff it and still be fine. Okay. But it can definitely, but it can really take it away farther. Okay. How about the editing slash like in your world, like VFX type of stuff? Like post-production work. It doesn't need to be flashy or complicated, but it needs to be really like um concise. So pacing? In any situation, like an eight. Okay. Eight or nine, yeah, to be able to pace it. And last but not least, having a girlfriend in your video, scale of one to ten. How how important is that to go viral? 11. Okay, shout out to your girl. But no, man. So you couldn't do it without her. Yeah, no, that's that's awesome, man. You guys seem like a dynamic duo. Yeah, well, there's that for sure. Um, so just to be clear, like you you are trying to go as viral as possible with every upload, correct?

Or is that um like how do you how do you view that? It's not a complete accident. I feel like I feel like it's it would be disingenuous to say no. However, there's there's some corners we could cut that would that would sacrifice like artistic integrity that would that would get you views that mean less. Like it's technique. it's easy to go viral, technically, if you're if you're like I could go into Walmart and pour ketchup on my head and scream and then sing my song while everyone's looking at me. And like that could get, you know, a a million views pretty easily. But in terms of I'm I'm just so not gonna delve into uh that end of the cringe pool or or however whatever you'd call it. That's what we're calling it. That don't need to be utilized. So That's amazing. So, you know, I kind of want to break this episode down into like your process when it comes to ideation, right? So how you're coming up with ideas and and cranking out ideas. I do want to really focus, at least I'm most interested in the actual execution, like shooting and filming, because I see a lot of BTS stuff. I even checked out your you know, kind of camera guy that that you referenced when we were texting.

I looked at his page and he has a lot of he he has even more BTS shit, obviously, right? Around your whole process and experience working with you, and I was like, holy shit, that's how that video came to be, because maybe you didn't post the BTS, but he did, and I was like, also some of the most viewed videos are the ones that show like how the shot is set up, too. Like clearly just the public is interested in that. That's how the landscape is right now. Yeah, yeah. I think especially and this might be even more and more important going forward, just in the I mean, we can talk a bit about AI if that comes up, but like just to I didn't expect to say it so early, but here I am bringing it up. Um the one of the many ways it might affect the landscape is like people will care much more about how things are made than the final result. Like like live music might be become a little bit more important just because there'll be it'll elevate the magic of seeing someone create it in front of you. It's the same thing with like seeing the the behind the scenes, people really care about that. Yes. We see that in film today too. Like films are getting marketed to not have any CGI or whatever, like um Tom Cruise films will always be really pushing. There was no green screen, even if there heavily was, um, just to kind of distance themselves from that perception of um we faked it.

Yeah. Fans really care about that. You even have uh, you know, no AI used in these videos in your bio on Instagram. Yes, yeah. The accusations just pour it in so I think I was like, Yeah, I gotta pin this somewhere. Yeah, no, feel it. Yeah, for sure. And so then kind of like the last part I want to, you know, touch on towards the end is your editing visual effects, like post-production part of the whole the whole kind of content creation machine, right? So I guess to start off, like do you think that you know too many artists are focused on posting consistently and maybe sacrificing like thinking this shit through more, right? Because I don't know, like at the outside looking in, you look like you give this shit a lot of thought, man. Like it doesn't look like you're just on a whim making these videos, like it just I don't know if that's the case, and we'll dive into it. But from my perspective, it seems like there's a lot of intention behind everything that you put out, right? And so, yeah, would you say that most artists or too many artists are just like focused on the fact that music marketing gurus are telling them they need to post every day and they're just in that rat race and they're sacrificing a lot of intention and a lot of creativity, or how do you how do you view the landscape in that front?

Yeah, I I feel kind of miffed by the advice to kind of push out so much, just so much output. Um, even with just releases, I think there's nothing inherently wrong with it, and and I understand the strategy behind that, but I think when you sacrifice you're gonna sacrifice some quality for quantity, it no matter what. That's just um the classic, the classic uh trinity of good, fast and cheap. Like you can have uh two, but you can't have all three. Um, so we kind of we try to strive for all three as as much as we can. We really aren't putting much money behind these projects. Um, definitely more so in the last couple months, but like I've spent so little on my career up until just for the for the last like it's been maybe a year and a half of really pushing this heavily. Like most of the growth, all of the growth has pretty much been in that period. I've kind of funneled streaming money back in, like, that's how we that's how anything gets funded. Is it's just I've just the money that I've made from this, I put it back in where it's needed, but it's mostly spent on like locations and traveling. Um and then obviously I'm splitting some revenue with the the team around me.

Um, which I should I guess I should go over like who who that is. Sure, sure. I think I've deviated like heavily from your uh no go for it. Let's yeah, let's go into this. This is important because I think people, I'm going to reference them a lot. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I was obviously me and my girlfriend. So she is my girlfriend in real life, um, but she's also an actress. Uh so she plays my girlfriend in the videos as well. Her name is Grace. Uh, bless her. Um, couldn't do this without her, and couldn't do this without the other two people, There's two other people on the team. It's Scotty, who is holding the camera, like that's who you see in the BTS clips. Um, and Elliot, my brother, who I grew up with him. Like, we were doing filmmaking stuff since I was five, and he was seven. Um we've just been filming shit. It's my brother, my best friend, and my girlfriend. That's it, really. So it's it's these long term collaborations that um we we would be doing this if it was if it wasn't working. Um we were doing it but way before it was working. Um, so I'm really blessed to be in a position where I have that, and that that's put me in the position to be able to kind of circumvent this.

Is I'm tying it back in circum circumnavigate that fast, good and cheap situation because we kind of have the manpower and the the we're also passionate about it that we can jump over having to pay to like outsource um uh work to editors and stuff. So we're doing everything in-house, and I'm editing um like a heavy amount of the workload, which is to a degree I'm like spread thin and and that's not the ideal strategy, but it certainly is allows us to do things cheap and fast um in that regard. So I I'd say we to actually give you a goddamn answer, I'd I'd say the um we definitely have a like every few day kind of posting strategy. But the if you ask me what my ideal posting schedule is, like I'm shooting for as much as possible, as much output as possible. Um, but there's a certain threshold of quality that we're we're trying to reach. And and I will the first thing to go is gonna be pushing deadlines. Like if it's not good enough, I'm I don't want that to represent um the work we're doing.

And I think that's gonna my my hope is that that's gonna come back to like reward me in the future and and in terms of like fan perception that I want to build this trust that um really states clearly that I'm I'm gonna give it my 110% when I show up, right? Yeah, I love that we have citizen, man, because like we have so many people, you know, just different perspectives on this music industry shit. We've interviewed 260 plus people at this point, and so many people are on the consistency train. Yeah, it's like and that quality is subjective. I hear that all the time. And that quality is subjective, and you could just hold a you could do a selfie style video that could get you a lot of views and attention and could potentially translate into streams on your music. But it's like this is so interesting that it is kind of this other thought process that is clearly working. Yeah, you know what I mean? So like I can't speak to like, which one's the better strategy if I was to advise people, but it's, it's maybe, maybe it's more so my preference. Um, But that's like that's the artistic vision for it. Maybe that's specific to me, but obviously, yeah, like you said, it's working.

So and I think it can, either one can work. And I also think it's interesting too. I wondered, I had a hunch. I was like, I wonder if he was in film stuff and video stuff. Oh, he's a thespian. Even before the music. Fucking thespian, dude. So that makes me think like, I don't know, like maybe some artists do need to get deep into video, you know, like really take it up as a skill. You know what I mean? And it in 2026, it's like video is how we discover stuff. Yeah, I'm actually surprised um more don't, right? It's such a creative medium. People are mad at the idea that they need to. Oh yeah. They just love that audience. Yeah, but it puts people, it puts people off. It's a roadblock, I think. Yeah. And that's fair. Cause if you're if your love really truly is music, I'm gonna I'm in a pretty unique pr position here, just given that I have a deep passion for both. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I mean, I even look at spot. Yeah, I even look at like a Connor Price, right? And he also is an actor, and it's you know, the kind of place, it kind of perfect, like kind of perfect timing to be an artist right now who's super talented and he's okay like acting and being in video and like doing these skits that obviously have worked for him, you know what I mean. It's really important to incorporate something else you're passionate about. That's unique to you. Cause I mean, the main thing I tell people about branding when people are trying to figure out what to do, uh, if nothing's really clicked yet, is to really just find something unique about yourself and go all the way into it, lean into it as much as possible.

And the that was filmmaking for me, it was like such an obvious choice once I figured that out. But uh that could be I don't think that I don't think that means everyone has to learn how to use a camera. Like sure, if acting is is your thing, I I love the way Connor's really implemented that and the skit format, that's his biggest thing, right? Is is utilizing that skill of being able to show up well on camera. Yeah, for me, I don't know. I just we've said it a lot of like incorporate your interests and shit, but we maybe have I don't know, suggested that you do it in a little bit more like in your face kind of way, and maybe it just needs to be subtle, right? It's like you know, Connor's incorporating the acting. Nobody needs to know that he's editing. It doesn't give him any extra, you know, no one's like going to stream your music more now because you I don't know, at least I wouldn't like give a fuck, honestly. If the music's good and I connect to the music, great. Yeah, shout out to you, you edited it, but like that doesn't really change my mind about whether I like the fucking song or not, to be honest. At least that's I don't know, that's my perspective. It changes whether or not you end up hearing it. Exactly. Yeah, there you go. That's just I put it in front of that's the vessel I used

to put it in front of you, is all yes. And it's something that you have kind of used as your own little differentiation, you know what I mean? It's like you know, I mean, bro, not not many people not many people are doing it like you're doing it, you know what I mean? Like, there's very few artists, like there's people that have now used like Connor's format and kind of rinsed and repeated that, and they've actually they've seen success to be honest. There's a lot of Connor Price, you know, clones out there as far as like at least the formats that he's used. Not many folks have like used your at least I haven't seen them. It's harder to just jump in and make something that looks like citizen content. We're a little bit uncopyable by nature of like the super specific skill set, but I think that's uh yeah, like you're saying, that it's that unique angle, it's how you stand out because there's literal millions of artists, and a lot of people see that as there's so much competition. But I I say like we're all running our own races at our own pace, and just like make sure that you're the lane you're in is is unique enough that it stands out. Yeah.

They're picking which race to watch, not whoever's going fastest, they're gonna look at it. It's like no, it it's exactly that. I think what we talk about points of self-awareness, point to it. Where is it? Self-awareness. Self-awareness is gonna be up on the up on the screen. Um because I think that's what you're kind of saying, at least the way I'm interpreting what you're saying is like being self-aware about what you're interested in and what you think could help you stand out, and then fucking do that, right? So if you're someone who's very comfortable like yapping and you wanna like try live streaming, that might not be something that Citizen the Artist likes to do, and that might not be his vessel for reaching people and gaining attention. His was I'm having a horrible time right now. No, I just I just mean in general, like you don't really implement that yet. Like, yeah, that this is a, this is new for me, this is a new angle. No, for sure. Something I'm trying to like do more. Yeah, um, but totally I'm I'm so in agreement on that. Yeah, exactly. It's like if you're someone who's you know athletic and into sports, like maybe collaborate with some athletes and like be in the sports world and use that as the vehicle to gain attention. So I don't know, it's just kind of interesting to think.

And if you're someone that is trying to, you know, further your music career and you're watching this episode right now and you've already gained some value, make sure you like, comment, and subscribe. We do this each and every week, trying to bring you guys the greatest value that we absolutely can. I knew you were gonna do it then. I had to go for it. That's so good. Um, okay, so how many I think that's beautiful. Thank you. How many ideas do you have versus how many get how many how many do you have versus versus how many get executed? I'm gonna get left on the cutting room floor. No, no, no, like you know what I mean? Like, what's the ratio of I've got a bank of fucking a hundred ideas and I'm gonna make one out of these a hundred? Or is it literally like every single idea you want to make and you eventually end up making? Like, give me the ratio. Um, well, you say idea, and and I mean that's like that's like infinite. I have I mean, there's so many things that I want to do that are down the line to me that aren't like on the cutting room floor, but that are like massive projects. Um but I assume you're you mostly mean like how much content do we um correct. How far do we get?

Let's say let's say ideas for videos, right? Versus what we end up actually seeing as consumers of of citizens content. To like be f actually fair and uh give you an answer off the bat, because I think I'm my habit is to like really dive in and then get lost. But uh to to work on my media training here, um the there's there's honestly very few videos that we get um far into the ideation process for that don't f follow through. For this last route to give I guess an example, the this last rollout, I'm not sure what the numbers how many we actually have, but it's maybe somewhere around 19, 20 videos that we that we've executed. And there's um I think there's like five that we've shot that aren't out. Um and part of my part of my I don't love wasting work. I it's really unideal, especially because of the time suck. Um all the time invested, especially if it's partially edited. But you have this quality threshold that you have to make. Right, right.

So it's um uh uh sometimes that just means the video needs to be worked on longer. And part of what I'm thinking currently for this rollout is that like down the down the line, like in the coming months, I'll just drop these videos w when they're finally done, so that they they don't get lost. But um, yeah, per rollout, there's only a couple things that maybe we sh we start shooting and and figure it's too difficult to logistically like finish pulling off. And then there's certainly like uh a plethora of uh ideas that get written down. What ends up happening with there is uh essentially they get cannibalized into being uh used elsewhere like in future rollouts. There's so many things that I've written down that are really only interesting because of one point and that point can be applicable to to any other um format or something. Like it's usually inspired by this would really connect with an audience or this would be a great hook because um this one element, this one trope would be would do really well with Grace and I or something. So a lot of things just get banked for later. I'm curious how going back

to like Nic D who might even choose which song he's gonna release because he has content ideas like how much does the content factor into the music? You know do you do you maybe change a song because you have an idea for a video or if will you maybe not drop a song because you don't have ideas for videos. How how familiar are you with the catalog I guess just the most viral stuff. Definitely knows the singles you know a lot of the I mean they're all singles but yeah did you did you um peep the rollout or light it up back when I think that's when we were initially gonna do this actually. Yeah yes. And then everything got so so busy for me. Um but that song's a great example because that was one of the first times I was really really tailoring the song with uh visuals in mind. There's like a circular inspiration pattern that happens for me where vice versa I'll have I'll base all the content around what the um thematic the main themes are in the song but sometimes I'll I'll have a different idea for an effect or something. So the the baby I caught you falling for me bit that was the like main um the kind of flagship promo format we would do for the viewers at home uh uh my girlfriend and I would be in some perilous situation, a car would drive by, she'd almost get hit by it or something, and I'd catch her, then cut to cinematic um cinematic camera angle of it's I'm dipping her.

So we've recontextualized what that moment was, and now it's a a movie scene uh and a romantic moment. So I wrote that that line in the song, baby, I caught you falling for me, in with that in mind, literally just to do that um roll out roll out. Oh my god, I knew there'd be something like this, dude. Yes dude. Cause it makes so much sense together. It's So deep. You might write a song and there's no obvious like thing that could turn into a cool visual theme. So when you kind of are visualizing it all together, like you said, like I think the circular visualization is like really cool. It all just works together. Yeah, and vice versa. I mean, for this newest song too, the back and forth effect, the the forward reverse. On time. Frozen moment frozen in time. This is this song was really conceptualized visually and sonically at the same time for me, like in my head as I was doing the production for it, because I thought I want to do a song that has a rollout that features a bunch of moments frozen in time. Um, and I I came up with that effect uh and and determined just okay, so for this to function um to the maximum uh mass appeal in terms of in a marketing sense, it needs to be like a perilous moment. Um whatever the the highest uh curiosity spike for the audience is gonna be.

So per per instance. For instance, yeah, I'm about to get hit by a train. The moment's paused, they have to listen to me sing the song, and to before they can find out uh how that moment resolves. Yes, but oh man. And then land the car on beat, by the way. Right, yeah. And then, well, ca and cause the lyrics are I need a second to breathe. Okay, I'm locked in. So he he locks in and he makes it through. But so that goes back to like I could cut corners and I could stopped I could have stopped there, but I I just want to have as much tied back into itself as possible through the visuals and the sonics. So it's um I mean, so the that led to okay, I'm gonna chop this sample up so that that effect really hits with the music, but then the song is gonna be about a relationship where we just need more time together. Um we can't be over yet, we just need more time, so we need to suspend this moment. The hi-hat is replaced with the watch ticking sound, um, all that. I have a theory that you the BTS of doing that effect shows the camera moving and then you guys moving. I don't think that's how you actually did it, right?

I would I wondered if this was gonna come up because I I was it's funny we we laugh about this um because people get really mad. They're like, you're faking it, you're lying. That's not how you did it. But like Loki, if you were there watching us on the day, it it's very close to looking like that because we we we really just need that one moment. Uh so we do it over and over again to get like the perfect marriage of of motion with the kind of just to get like a juicy one-second clip. Um so we give ourselves you know 20 seconds of of options. But you are actually physically like there, but it's literally so it's literally just us going back and forth, or glasses on and off. Um, yeah, there's so many things like that. There's so many things like that. We'll cut in a uh example video for those that don't know what we're talking about. Yeah, that's like the most uh honest video, one of our most like that's pretty much what it looked like. Yeah, I mean, one of my favorites is the fucking uh actually let's let's do this now, I think. All right, so I wanted to kind of pull up a few of our favorite, like extremely viral videos of yours. I'm talking like 20 million views and above, right?

I want to pull up a few of these, and I think it's actually, you know, a a good exercise to just kind of unpack how these actually came to be, right? So you're kind of doing that right now. And I want to, I think this is a perfect kind of segue into this like portion that I wanted to kind of go through. So, all right. This one's from Vertigo. Like you're, you know, literally, like, there's a fucking cheese grater trying to make the snow. Right? 0% budget, 100% filmmaking. Like, talk to us about just unpack this whole what the fuck we're seeing right now. How you thought of this, what's actually happening in the video, why you did this, what's real, what's not. Like, just give us the whole download on this, bro. This video was crazy.

I don't think I expected it to do as well as it did, honestly. We're shooting for like mass appeal a lot of the time for sure, but I it we're just shooting so much content that I end up being surprised by which ones like go absolutely crazy. Yeah. Um, but it makes sense in retrospect. This is a marriage of a lot of ideas, I think. Um the TV background idea obviously is a huge trend now for for music promotion, which I I'm pretty sure I want to take credit here. I'm pretty sure I brought this to music promo. Like, I I saw someone do uh um standing in front of a train on a TV and a result, but it was like a cinematography niche kind of thing. I was like, okay, this is perfect for a performance song. Um, and obviously with that marriage of let me do a cinematography niche thing, because I'm I got that filmmaking part of the branding. For anyone who doesn't know the trick here is that we we shoot the the take in the real location, and then we get a background plate and put it on the TV at home and uh put it together. But so the result you're seeing is actually shot on location in the snowy mountains. Okay. Um with real snow falling on me.

Um not cheese. God damn, bro. He got my ass. He got he got 95 million people or something. Holy shit. Whatever this is, it literally is like, oh my god. Okay, keep going. Sorry. But I think it's g I think it's Grace like shaking a snowball over me, or like uh shaking a branch that had snow on it. Okay. Um because it wasn't snowing in the day. Uh and furthermore, we a little VFX magic got thrown in there because I I just kind of rotoscoped me out and put a plate of snow falling behind me for that result to really because it the result needs to send it home, knock it out of the park. Um so I usually throw in just a uh a tiny uh we I love to mix a practical effect uh with a with the digital effect because then it really hides where the effect starts and stops. So obviously the snow falling on me is practical, but behind me is fake, and you you're not even gonna notice it. It's it's really good VFX is really just like magic tricks where where you misdirect where the effect is. Oh my god. Magic, dude. That's incredible. The snow is also Let me pause this.

Hold on, sorry. Should we move on? No, no, no, no, no, no, keep going. I could talk for so long about each of these. No, yeah, keep going, keep going. Well, so the real trick to uh how that video did so well was the mouse. The mouse what? Hold on. Mouse in the corner? Oh no. So 95% of the comments are discussing how there's a mouse in the corner as we're grating the cheese on my head. Oh, there's a oh no! Didn't notice the mouse. Holy shit, I forgot the mouse. There's the detail. So that's the the theory of like, you know, random extra thing, like that's like there for the comments, right? It's it's to generate discussion. It's comment-based, but it's but um I uh I gotta correct you on random extra thing because it's directly tied into the concept of what we're doing. It's it's appealing to people because it there's a story to it, and people are always gonna uh be drawn to a story. Like we're just we're just in a garage that's no budget. They're grating cheese, so there's a mouse. Oh, in the cheese. So he's waiting for the cheese.

Yeah, dude, come on. Get with it, bro. He's got character motivation. Oh my god. So is that a CGI mouse? Yeah, well, that's a 2D plate of a mouse that I found off YouTube and cut him out and then composite it. Oh my god, I'm sitting here thinking he got a prop, an actual fucking mouse. Dude. This guy's the... holy shit, that is in cheat code. It's honestly it's such a cheat code. It is good. I knew you were good. It's so hard to find a mouse in time, right? I knew you were good, bro. We might have to do another episode in the future just on VFX. Yeah, like I knew he was good, but like that. I'm down for that. That's next level. Okay, next one, next one. Let's go. Okay. So what the hell am I? What is bro doing? Tell us what is bro doing. What do you uh before I give reveal it? What do you think bro is doing?

I don't think any of that's real. I don't know now. Now I just I mean the mouse thing just blew my mind, so I don't know what I think is real or not. It looks so good though. Like, how is that not a person shooting a video outside of a plane window? Yeah, no, like bro, I mean, I'm seriously stumped. Like at this point, I don't even want to guess. And obviously, you know, Snapchat text is huge still, right? That's big. Yeah, I'm surprised that's still going. I thought I think it's it might be dying. Like there's a chance that we it's getting overused to where it's now because the initial idea was this is gonna look so candid, but now it just sets a trigger off, like it's it's synonymous with Instagram reels uh or like fake out hooks more than it is with Snapchat, which would have been so true. It's definitely gonna be a little bit more. So it's like come full circle and now normal iPhone might actually become more candid. But um to reveal how this was pulled off, uh this was a really difficult video. We had this idea for so long, for like multiple months, and and really wanted to pull it off for like a different song. This is one of those ones where we were gonna do it for a different song, and we just held on to the idea because it was we couldn't do it good enough.

Um and our first attempt, we've we went to an airport and we had a and we had a passenger in in that plane at the window, filming out the window. Well, we did it. We tried to do the entire thing for real. No way. Um and the it was just so damn hard to nail the framing. Um I was just so tiny. I was just too tiny in frame, with so it didn't work. Um so then we we had a flight to New York, and we were like, this is an opportunity to get uh a plate. When I say plate, I mean just a a shot, a uh video file. Um, like VFX term, I guess, is when you stack multiple plates, is layering different like 2D videos on top of each other. So we were like, let's get a plate out the window of nothing, just grassy field. So we did the movement a whole bunch of times, nailed it, got the like the the juiciest uh, hookiest one. Um and I motion tracked it and and put so it's a 3D model of me on a 3D model of a ladder motion tracked in in to the hook. So I'm full CG.

Wow. Yeah. And then so you had to buy several plane tickets to try and pull this off. Well, we had uh we had the landing and the takeoff pretty much to get it. Two and one, I guess. Yeah, sure. Dude, that's pressure, bro. He's like sweating on the flight, and people are like, Are you good, bro? Fuck, I got an aisle seat, dude. Yeah. No. God damn it. Bro, if they switched you to an aisle seat. Fuck. Holy shit. Can I- can we swap seats? I just need to get two million likes real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is hilarious. Right. So that's the. I mean, one other point, like, there's always multiple effects that aren't even like the main thing. The grass was dead, so I replaced the grass with green, just because it's better if it's green. That's way better. I I replaced it for for the just for the familiarity of that. Um what airport is this? It's New York. It's um LaGuardia? I don't remember. I went to New York like a couple times that year, and I don't know. which airport it was. Okay. Okay, sorry. It's irrelevant.

I just was I don't know why I asked. I'm Also, the one skill that I've like I can never get is maps. Direction. Shit with direction. So then the plane actually flying over you, and this in the end shot is also assume not real. Right. So then obviously I'm a real person in that uh in the result, but the sky behind me is fake, and the plane is a 2D video of a plane shot at the airport. Sweet. Wow. And you and you took the video of the plane at the airport, or do you rip that somewhere online, or how does that work? That was one of the rare instances of stock footage. Okay, okay. Wow. I usually don't go for it, but it was like, Perfect. we also tried. We also attempted getting. If you've ever shot an airplane fly over, we've tried to do this so many times because of this video, but uh it's so hard to get the plane big enough. Like it's just not viral if the plane is small. Yeah, yeah, a little rinky-dink plane. Makes sense. All right, all right, let's go to the next one. This is amazing.

Oh my god. I hate this one. I didn't love it, but oh my god. Okay, so yeah, what what break this down, bro? What's happening here? Uh, so much mess. Come on. It's like, okay, so again, let's maybe start with like what was the idea, right? Why did you why did you think of it? And then how did you actually pull this off? So this is another like circularly motivated um song. I think this is my thing now. Uh because this is this is like back to back. Seems like it. Uh time and vertigo. But um it's working, so I'm gonna lean into this. Um the the whole idea, I just uh the line in the song kind of popped into my head, and and I realized I should build a whole song around this idea of um equating the feeling of like a a relationship to give getting vertigo because it's uh such a catchy word, and I don't think I've seen many like big songs with that. Um but the what further drew me to it was there's a filmmaking technique called the vertigo, the vertigo effect.

Okay. Popularized in um Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo. Okay, where you you push the camera forward while you zoom out, or vice versa, pull out while you zoom in. And what it does is it compresses the the background and the foreground together. Um that's the the illusion it creates. So it is kind of mimics that sense of getting vertigo in real life. So I was like, okay, let's do let's do a song where the result, every time it cuts the result, it's he's getting vertigo, he's singing about how he feels like he has vertigo, and we utilize that technique that's designed to feel the same way. Um what's the optimal from there? We were like, let's build from there we said, okay, let's build the like perfect the the our flagship video for it. Um what's the ideal situation to get vertigo in? Peril the most viral like uh mass appeal designed version. Um uh I'm in a perilous situation, I'm gonna fall off a cliff, but to tie it in further, it has to be my girlfriend saving me, because uh she's who I'm singing to. You darling, I get vertigo. Um she's darling in this uh scenario.

Um so that was the idea, and we we don't even uh so Scott I'm referring to like Scotty and I discussing these. Um and I bring I bring these ideas to him, and he, he never questions if we can do it. Like we question it later, always. Um we try just try to think of like what's perfect and then reverse engineer if we can actually come accomplish it. Um and we we we got it on our first like instinct of what to do. We we went to we were on location for like a week to shoot all the content for the song uh in this snowy mountain. It was like a short drive, it's in California somewhere. Um Shaver Lake. I don't know if you've been. Beautiful place. Yeah. We found that that rock that you see, it's it's real um in the hook, but we there's a uh rock adjacent to it that's like much shorter and much safer to be on. So we were like, okay, let's let's stand on that one, cut us out, and place us on the more perilous looking rock. Um I see. So that was the trick. Super simple. It's just we extend the bottom, basically. Um and that is what locked.

Then it can be as perilous as possible. It really locks in the but we can still we can do it as many times as we as we need with no safety gear, no wires or anything, because if I fall, it's like a foot. Um she's actually holding you by your scarf. So she is holding me by my scarf, but my my brother has his hands on my back, and I just cut him out. I was like, what? He's pushing me back out. I was like, bro, Grace is strong. Yeah. Yeah, she also, you know, she she really helped with the with the curl, the one arm curl, but yeah, literally. And you like that. The way my jacket deforms is a little bit, Um it's a good idea. You can kind of tell the hands pushing in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can't. I mean, no one, I don't think anyone saw and it's been seen millions of times. I didn't replace it. I'm glad I didn't uh replace it. Yeah, no. And then do you like the one word at a time lyrics? Do you think that's like high retention kind of? It's the most viral way to go, yeah. Okay. High retention. There's a there's a quick little tip for you. guys. And for us, yeah.

Yeah, super, super simple. That's my opinion. Like bold text, bold color, make it feel like the song, make the font feel like the song, uh, make the color feel like it as well, obviously. Or go like pick a color for your branding branding and and associate it associate it there. Yeah, but um skull emoji. One word is better because you don't want people to my theory on emoji okay, don't use anything but skull or sob. The sobbing, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the go-to is for me. I feel like it's the just the easiest. They're universal. In the world. Universal emojis. If you guys like quick practical tips like this, actionable stuff, Make sure you like this video, drop a comment, subscribe to the channel. We got guys like Citizen the Artist bringing you real actionable advice to level up your content to get more streams on your music. What more could you want? This episode's free on YouTube. Come on, guys. So, so then again, I mean we kind of were touching on it, but I don't know that we actually dove into it. I think I want to make sure we interject here. So, something like this. You're paying to obviously Feel free to interrupt me at any I say as I interrupt him.

Yeah, you're good. You're good. Feel free to interrupt me at any point because I'm like, I can ramble about this. No, you're fine, you're fine. Ramble's great. Sauce is in the rain. Yeah, exactly. Um, but so like you mentioned your team, and is it safe to say that you are like revenue sharing? Are you paying them salaries? Because you were kind of hinting at it, and I don't know that we like fully delivered on that, but I think it's super important because we had another artist named Pertinence on the podcast who also has seen a lot of success. Yeah, Pertinence has also seen a lot of success, you know, on social media, and I think his content is a one. Uh, and he mentioned kind of a business arrangement that he struck up with his like you know, creative partner in crime, right? Who kind of handled all the filming. Um, so talk to us about how the team is getting compensated, right? Because I mean they have to they have to make sure they have to make some money to survive, obviously. So how does that how does that work? Yeah, so I I don't know how well this is gonna go in the future, but for this um for the last like five songs we put out, um essentially just starting out, these these guys were just helping me for free because I wasn't making like any money as well.

Um, but since it's really started picking up, I convinced all of them to quit their nine to fives. Let's go! That's put the we did it, we I got them all. So they're all full time now, which is a massive like increase in uh if anyone sees uh everyone's be saying like yo, citizens the budget went up, it's really just like the time invested has gone up from them. And then I can I mean the budget goes to to compensating them, obviously. So that these last five songs, what I've done is just since I'm DistroKid, I get 100% of the songs, I just give them points. Hey, Henry here. Sorry to interrupt this podcast, but there is something I have to address. As many of you know here at one more time, we love doing live music reviews. We love hearing the music from our community and providing helpful feedback that is hopefully helping you further your career. But if there's one piece of advice that we are tired of giving, it's that your master is too quiet. We shouldn't have to turn up the volume for your song just to have to turn it back down for the next song. That's not good. But Henry, good mastering engineers are so hard to find and so expensive. Enter DistroKid's newest tool called Mixia.

I master music myself, and while I don't think AI mastering will ever replace the quality you get from an experienced human mastering engineer, it's pretty damn good. And if you already distribute through DistroKid, you can now master unlimited tracks using Mixia. And if you don't, we have a link right here. You can sign up for DistroKid with 30% off. Upload unlimited music yearly for an insanely cheap price. Humans perceive louder as better. It's dumb, but it's true. Use Mixia for a clean master, and you won't sound weak on that playlist. Let's get back to the episode. There it is. Shout out to DistroKid, sponsor of this episode. Shout out to DistroKid, our proud sponsor of the One More Time podcast. That's Right. No way. Yeah. Oh yeah. Can I get like a customer support email? I think we know a guy to help you out, Citizen. we can. But all y'all listening, we can't help you. Not everybody. I'm sorry. They do distribute like 60% of all music in the world. Give them a break. They're a small team. Yeah, and they're very cost effective. So you know, other distributors are taking your hard-earned money, you know, and just squandering it. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, okay, cool. Let's go to the next one. This one last video. I love that one though. Oh my god, that one's so good. Yeah, these are all these are the things. So I just so I just give out points, and I feel like that um motive that creates the same motivation for everyone on board. It's like we just we all have a common goal to get the Right. No, it's, it's the videos to convert to some streams. That's that's how LaRussell does it. I think that's you know how pertinence was doing it too, right? It's like giving people an actual stake, you know what I mean? In in ownership almost in this whole, you know, like machine. So I love this song too. Appreciate you. So, like, I, I want to start with the idea about this making a mistake, you know, becoming the final cut or whatever. So like I I want to start with the idea about this making a mistake, you know, becoming the final cut or whatever, right?

Um was that the idea? Hmm. Uh, all of these videos all these videos have so many um layers, so many like banked uh bits of data that Scotty and I have like registered is a is a popular thing to implement. Like you want to maximize the especially if you're shooting to get a million likes. Essentially, we set out for this video to get a million likes. Like the this is something we do per rollout. It's like, well, we need at least one video per song to do a million likes, and there's like a certain checklist we kind of go down to to make sure we um are eligible for it, because you can't just hope. Um, and one of those things, one of the main things we do is just kind of stack techniques on top, like um retention, as much knowledge as we can pack into getting retention as possible. So one core idea, I'd say the like the main idea for this, I uh is the the result, the reflection effect um, which came from there's I think this was like a wedding video trend, um, to do like the bride and groom kissing the water, and then you comp it together so it looks like they kiss uh their husband in the reflection. Um it was a it was a thing that people were doing, yeah, for for people's wedding videos, and I was like, this is the this would a great way to elevate this would be if we're in sync performing it.

Um and of course, to again to tie it in, it's I'm I'm she's who I'm talking to, but she's not there. I'm saying I don't I don't need you to stay. Uh the song is about I've just been left, and I'm trying to like cope with that feeling, but I feel like a part of her is still left inside me, so I'm I've convinced myself I'm okay with her absence because I um the way she changed me is like uh I'm gonna carry that on in myself. So I'm looking at my own reflection. There's some line about every day I uh look in the mirror and I stare at me just to find you in my eyes or something like that. So I was like, okay, let's let's find reflection ideas. So that's where I um started with with that idea. And and I when I found the wedding video trend, I was like, this is the perfect thing. And for other for like we could really get into it for like why we're in Hawaii, yeah. In this whole rollout, there's like there's like a lot of story motivation for why why the why I picked these locations, but we were trying to find ideas that function in this location because we had already established this was the rollout that was gonna happen here. So we were like, okay, tide pool, we found the perfect spot.

Scotty is um uh he really has all of the sense of direction that I lack. So um he's he hops in Google Maps and he's like a wizard, Google Earth. Uh finding like there's this cool lighthouse in the background and shit. Perfect spot. Sun was setting. This is like panic hour for us. This is where we've gotten like half a billion views in the time the hour before it's completely dark. So like the golden hour. Uh yeah, golden hour. This is like directly after golden hour. The sunlight had just touched down. Okay, um, but the sky is still bright enough to get that soft light. Yeah, yeah. He's basically saying they're scrambling like motherfuckers, and somehow they produce 500 million plus a few chances. I mean, if you miss it, you come back the next day. We need that lighting, or you just miss it. Like behind the scenes on this one, yeah. Right, yeah. Well, so we were there, we were there for a limited amount of days, and we had we had to get all of the content for the song. So it's like if we miss today, we miss the mil liker. We call okay, we call it the mil liker for short.

Just because it's less. Oh wow, yeah, the mil liker. So we we need to get our mil liker. Let's uh do it. And this was uh like the like the airplane one. This is our second attempt. Um the first attempt we got devoured by mosquitoes. Oh no. Uh Hawaii's humid and obviously like still low um puddle pools of water like this is gonna have tons of mosquitoes and shit. So we were all out of calories. We had just shot for the entire day on like a hike, uh, and we couldn't, we couldn't, I couldn't corral everyone to like get the get the footage. Um, but I love I there's sort of like a there's a blessing in disguise whenever you fuck up, because it's a practice run, sort of, it's like a pre-viz, pre-visualization version. So we we knew what to not do because we had tried it once. Um so I I'd really like refined um what the format and pacing was gonna be. So time to go back and look at the game tape. Right, yeah, yeah.

So it's like, how do we how do we improve on our own past work? And also at the same time, we get to not show our mistakes. So you mentioned uh if I whether or not I like in privating posts that flop, and and we we really don't. We just we just make sure that they're good enough before they go up. He knows they're going, bro. I just know it won't do well, so before it flops, I pull it, but or reshoot it. There it is. Uh another. I feel like this is so in-depth, but it's great. This is exactly what brief how overview you want. Well, we have you guys. Now we're here, man. I wanted to ask too, another theme I'm kind of seeing is that uh you're pulling themes and ideas from like other niches. You know what I mean? You mentioned like the wedding thing, and then there's like a VFX cinematography thing over here. Is that that kind of like a cheat code? Like something that music people haven't used yet. It's kind of fresh in the music space. The whole great artists steal thing, yeah. I mean, definitely rings true in the sense that like you should be looking for inspiration way outside where the the where your um niche that you live in is because then you're then you're a clone or whatever. Um so like people shouldn't be trying to make my content.

They should they should follow what's unique to them and and in that um same line of thinking, like find inspiration through the specific things that are that are unique to you, and then you're gonna stand out. So no one no one's if no one's approaching content with that same mindset, they're not gonna um no one's gonna accidentally come up with the vertigo rollout. Like that's a one that's lightning. Yeah, no, I think it's so key to just be like taking inspiration from other industries. I mean, shit, we've even talked to a bunch of you know more entrepreneurial type folks in the music space that you know maybe run music marketing like tech companies or whatever, and they're huge on taking things that work in like food and beverage or in sports or in whatever and applying it to music, you know what I mean? And just because just because it has you know worked in some other industry doesn't mean it can't work in music, you know what I mean? Um music people like y'all y'all are creative, you know, like this is it's a creative thing to like take from this and apply it here. It should be fun.

Like I want to encourage that, you know what I mean? Let's get creative with our business. We're so creative with our music. Like, let's figure out how we can do that in the other side. Yeah, it's like the same principles apply to every area. If you're if you're looking at marketing, it doesn't matter what you're marketing um marketing tips, if you if you come from marketing products, I that I did actually, I I've pursued careers in a lot of like film areas, um, like doing just freelance work as I would do VFX for like sneaker commercials or whatever um before I made any money for music. And I shot weddings too, actually. So there's there's that as well. Um so I there's just a bit of a backlog of information of what works um and in terms of more what's interesting to people, it's all the same shit. If you go and sit in a movie theater for two hours, it keeps your attention. So does an Instagram reel. It's like you could apply a lot of the same knowledge. It's the attention game. So as far as like if we took away a lot of the you know, VFX and kind of you know post-production things that you're able to do, right? If we took that away, how how successful do you think you would still be when it comes to like viral content marketing?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on like how much you think that's playing into the success here versus just some of the core themes that you've kind of talked about when it comes to just y'all trying to crack the retention code. Yeah, I mean, that's sort of that's sort of really segues out of what I with the point I just was going on, like the the main elements of what engages people and captivates people are gonna be the same, and and like being tricked is not part of that. Um it's, it's we play a lot into finding tropes and trying to find familiar setups. Um, hence why I made the grass green instead of letting it stay dead, it's just the more familiar it feels the better. But um, there's so many ways to achieve that without without this high production value aspect. And before we were um before everyone was full-time, we had um it was like we wouldn't do an idea if it had too much editing in it, because we were like, we don't have time for this. So the first half of my career at least was mostly based uh off of like a guy's on a date alone, and the Snapchat hook is yo, this guy clown is we're clowning him because he's on a date alone, and then cut to he's singing a song about how he's in love with himself and he's happy to be um having me time, and there was it's just two angles. One has nice lighting.

Like that's as far as budget goes, um, or or filmmaking knowledge goes, it's just uh the cinematic result being like visually pleasing. Um, but no, nothing beyond that making that video impossible to do. Okay. And it was like 10 million views. Yeah, hell yeah. So I feel like you again, my job, you know, is to like reel us back in. I feel like you were about to freaking snap when it comes to you mentioned a checklist that you have for your mil liker videos, right? Your your million like videos. Like, walk us through. I mean, as much as you're willing to give the sauce, bro. This is what we have you on the one more time podcast for. Trying to help our indie artists out there. Yeah, like like what is on that checklist. We didn't we need to write this down somewhere because I keep like mentioning that we have it, and it's like, okay, so people are gonna people are gonna ask. Um it's it lives like in Scotty and my minds, but um we but it's always the same, it's always the same principles. We shoot for no language barrier. So at least for the hook.

Obviously, the music is in English, but people I've I mean I have fans who don't really speak English well and they love the music too. It's just um sonically pleasing in that regard. So um we shoot for like a scenario like I was saying, tropes and scenarios that are familiar, um, especially pulling from film and stuff, like what um what relationship dynamics are gonna be instantly understood based on um context clues in the hook, but without dialogue happening in those first in those first five seconds. Um so that allows every country to comprehend it and enjoy it. Um and then uh we try to shoot for like this is this is not like a rule, but we go for like 12 seconds for the whole video length. Um 12 to 15. If it goes longer, it's really hard to to get it like insane reach. Um I just find it's e it's easy to be in that sweet spot. For Instagram and for Instagram especially, like the payoff should be four or five three to five seconds in, as in cut to the result. The result obviously needs to satisfy some type of question that was um posed in the hook.

I sort of sort of think of like mass appeal viral videos as like a joke. Not like it's funny to me, but like it's it's a it's a setup and a punchline in the same in the same regard. Um and it yeah, it doesn't have to be amusing, but the a good joke will have a setup that gives you some expectation of what the punchline's gonna be. And the the to make it funny, the punchline has to somewhat subvert what your expectation was, and never like confuse the fuck out of you. I think I think a lot of people get this wrong and think like confusing is viral because people will be like unsettled and they'll have to be engaged with it, but like you want them to really have their footing and have an expectation of what's gonna happen and just the way you deliver what's gonna happen has to be what they want, but in a way they didn't expect it. If that makes sense. Yeah. So it's like they have to be able to put together a spot. and this this is really where um the caption kind of ties in, I think, because the caption does a lot of heavy lifting on really quickly establishing the context um of the scene. So if it's a Snapchat hook, you have to really think through like who's filming this.

I see people sort of make this mistake where they go, they just go for the classic, what's bro doing? Yo, what is bro doing? Um, but the context really matters because people will put together just subconsciously who's filming and why. So I see people like on a music video set and they got one of those stage hands or whatever to to get the hook for for it, and they threw that caption on, and it's like that's not gonna that's not gonna function as a hook because people are gonna understand that the person who's on set of the film uh of the music video shoot wouldn't be asking, yo, what what's bro doing? Like you got let in here and you work for this music video shoot, you know. Yeah, so it's it seems like a lot of people think that that's not important because it just doesn't, it's like damn, people aren't putting that much together, but they are subconsciously. They're, They're just understanding it inherently. That's why you might have a guy like across the street, you know, doing what is bro doing, like zooming in where it could actually potentially be. a random airplane. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But so, and then furthermore, try to tie it in as much as you can to the idea. That that just goes for literally everything.

If you're trying to decide some um element of of your video, don't let it be, don't let a single decision be arbitrary. Try to have um I really push for intentionality. And so, I mean, this is how you approach things as a filmmaker. You you go on set and you design the living space of the character to be like you'll you'll that's a whole department to do the set dressing, and they'll think deeply into the backstory because it all adds up into this overall perception that the audience has um of like this believability. So to to jump off that, like the the understanding of who's filming in the plane video, yeah. Filming out of the plane that's then recontextualized to be flying over overhead. Obviously, he's at an airport, it's all tied in. It's not it wouldn't have functioned if it was some other guy who's also standing on the tarmac. Cause then it's like, why is why are you on Snapchat on the tarmac? It's so much more instantly believable that it's a passenger. So and then that's yeah, that I feel like a final note here is um recontextualization is huge. Um I think this is just really appealing to people, and this this is a great way to approach that kind of elusive subversion of expectation that I mentioned.

Like, there's a great lighted up one where we're uh my girlfriend and I are washing the car. We're we're washing a car with a hose, um, and then she trips on the hose and I catch her in the dip. But when it cuts to cinematic, um the f the catching the fall has been recontextualized, obviously to be a romantic pose. We we hit it um you know, we we do it a little literally like 30 times until it's like the uh most filmic um positioning, but the recontextualized hose has now started to look like um rainfall. So it's a romantic scene where we're in the rain now from here on out. Where we understand, so they understand how the BTS of it um like why it's why there's water falling, but you can kinda have a fourth wall there where where it's like the whole universe turned into cinematic mode. It's not just like the camera got better. It's the entire world shifted into being a film trope. Wow. Wow. So crazy. Holy shit. I got goose bumps just now. Yeah, for sure.

Um so right on. Yeah, and so that that's an amazing checklist for a million like video. So first of all, steal that everyone. Yeah. Yes. Good luck. Yeah, well, yeah. Sure. No, trust me. Hey, there's a lot of fucking information out there just on our podcast alone, and people don't actually just use it. You know what I mean? So I mean, it's so hard to execute. I mean, a huge like there's no shortcuts. Like, that's part of it. You can you can learn what to focus on learning, and that really helps you. But you have to make a hundred shitty videos. Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. So, you know, one thing that I think a lot of people ask is how does going this viral actually impact the citizen the artist business? Right? Because there's sometimes a gap, and like we talk about it a lot. Just because you go viral doesn't mean you make any money. Like you still might be broke as fuck, right?

So how has going viral impacted your business? And is the business, you know, is streaming revenue the primary objective here? I would assume it is because it's translating into streams. That's been the idea pretty heavily. The situation was I was kind of neglecting monetizing for a while just because I was I care mostly about making good shit. So um I obviously I want people to hear the the music. So converting to streams, yeah, that that's what mainly is paying me. Um up until like the beginning of this year, we've kind of decided, okay, now that we're all working full-time, we're gonna use this extra manpower to open up more revenue streams. We're working on merch. Um, I'm working on uh setting up touring, um, which is still like down the line for me, but um, but I'm so so excited to approach that with with the same mindset I have everything I have for everything else, and and give it 110% and you know, do it out of the box. And that's that's kind of stopped me from opening other revenue streams until I had this extra personnel because I was I wasn't gonna do it to the quality level.

So I was like, I'm just gonna have no money for a bit. Um but you know, gain the trust of the audience first. Um, so now streams are uh streams and brand deals are seem to be number one and two. They're kind of you I'm kind of making like the same amount at least the last like two months. So talk to us about I've just started doing brand deals. Yeah, I was gonna say talk to us about your journey into the brand partnership space, right? Like what kind of brand deals you're doing, like any lessons learned that you have so far. Because obviously yeah going this viral I mean brands want attention right like they want to be where the eyeballs are so it makes total sense. But like you do with everything I'm sure you're pretty intentional about like how you're going about this. So yeah talk talk to us about your approach and your experience so far with brands. Yeah that that's another thing I've been waiting on doing until it was right because I had like opportunities to do products that didn't make any sense. But I was really holding out until now I have the exposure and reach I'm starting to get like camera companies so this is perfectly playing in my niche.

And I like I said before I I did commercials and stuff before music just kind of freelance work. So I have like a familiarity with you have a product I will design video that sells it without feeling like too too salesy. So I really think the camera stuff has been perfect. I love I mean there's so there's so much gear that we have just collected over the years um of doing freelance film stuff. And now the the brands that like own this gear is are reaching out to us so it's an amazing opportunity to just keep doing what we've been doing but just tag 'em basically. Yeah so that's the approach um we did two brand deals this month yeah uh for two different drones okay you don't you don't have to sacrifice much artistic you know or filmmaker integrity just by throwing a tag and that stuff you already use you tag them yeah but like man I mean especially because we have the BTS played in, it's uh yeah, it's perfect. You can see the camera in the BTS, yeah.

Yeah, but to be honest, like, I mean, again, I I you know, I don't want to turn this into a uh citizen uh brainstorming strategy session, but I mean my mind goes to like every day is a brainstorming strategy session, yeah. I mean, bro, my mind goes to like the car that you and Grace are in, right? Like Ford. Why why or why are we not getting a free Mustang from Ford, right? Like, I mean, how many fucking views out how many fucking views did you get on that video alone, right? Like that made me want a Mustang. I've never wanted a Mustang. Dude, a blue one to that. Yeah, um, and then same thing, like, you know, locations, right? Like, you know, you could have partnered with some like Hawaiian resort, right? And probably got I don't know. I'm just like thinking like anything that you can kind of incorporate into your video, like, dude, there's the opportunities are endless, man. You really have cracked the code as far as like getting eyeballs, and that's what brands are after. Yeah, and you and you're so good, also brands want to be portrayed in like a really high quality professional light. You know what I mean?

So I don't know. I would get the cosign, they get the cosign Yes. like the the film guy on Instagram right now. Dude, I exactly I definitely think like the brand opportunities are are endless, man. So like I'm excited for you to to continue to like haven't tapped into it enough yet. Like we're kind of just starting on it, but like you said, we could be I'm kind of timid, like I don't want to reach out to people too much. I feel uh like I'm invading, but yeah. Well, inbound is nice, but do you yeah, I'm telling you, some of these brands like what they would pay for five million view video is yeah, outlandish. Yeah, no, absolutely. What about what about Mill Liker checklist video? Yes, exactly. No, like you have to collaborate with us on that. We'll turn that into a yeah, whole a whole digital product. Um but no, so yeah, like is it safe to say, like, has the virality gotten you as many fans as you thought it would or think it should um well I'm I'm kind of like blown away by the scale and the speed because this is still like a year and a half in yeah insane like I I'm I didn't know when we were first blowing up I was like is this normal? Is this supposed to be happening or is this many major labels supposed to be like talking to me right now but um uh like I'm just doing the same shit I've been doing since I was five from my perspective so it's like uh really a blessing to just wow people people like it so just that's my that's like my instinctual response to that but um your use of the word fans is I I like to think that my followers are are fans of me but this is a whole like discussion that happens in the industry when people are just setting up like touring because it's like are how many of these people are gonna buy tickets right by March.

Yeah um and I I don't love the idea of like nurturing the fan relationship to into just making as many of them consumers as possible but that's part of the like how I have a make a living um part of it and that's why I love how easy it is for the streams to to pay me and it you know it pays it pays them in a sense in a an emotional sense because it's free for them to uh they get a value out of it um but so what was the question well I mean I expect to yeah like just just basically have you know have the convert has the conversion rate between views of your content to even just like listeners of your music on streaming platforms has that been what you expected do you feel that there's a gap there, right? Um I don't know. Just any thoughts on kind of how you've been converting. Well, so we haven't spent any money on ads or anything. Like we we we have we also have no, I have terrible um playlist placement, like no editorials ever.

So every stream is organically converted from a view from Instagram or TikTok pretty much or YouTube, I guess. Which is hard to do by the way. Yeah. Get someone to actually switch apps. Given that, I think, Right, yeah. I mean, it's a it's a kind of a big ask in this uh day and age, but I think given the fact that it's all 100% organic, I think we're right in like the average conversion rate. It's like one to five percent. And yeah, we're sitting somewhere in the middle of that. So it's from what I can tell from research, it's like to be expected, but there's a lot of backend stuff that um could really be excelling, like Spotify algorithmic um help or or getting playlist placements or sync placements or something. Um I need to be opening up areas outside of just the literal organic conversion. I want the streams to surpass, I want the the listeners to surpass the followers, of course. And I see so many people who are pulling this off. Um I'm excited to like well, maybe you guys have some answers for me a bit because you've talked to these guys, but I'm also like befriending a lot of the guys who've been on your thing, so I'm starting to like ask around advice on this. Well, I think the good news for you, man, the good news is is I mean, 18 months in, like, holy shit.

You know, like, I think you you can you can tweak and optimize the conversion, like, you know, capabilities, I think. But getting the like potential eyeballs is uh is a feat that 99.9% of artists haven't done the hard part. Yeah, like now it's like the hard part, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Now it's kind of just like turning some dials and like you know, tune in the frequencies of the conversion and like really like I think like dialing in the brand of Citizen the Artist, like outside of just the visual brand that we see on the storytelling through the content, right? So that people can actually become like diehards of you and the music and come to see you on tour and buy your merch and all that sort of thing, right? Um, but yeah, man. That's a big step. I think uh I've never I've barely ever like interviewed done interviews or anything, so I I don't like exist in the real world yet. Um, so like this Hollywood this year is starting to like put my personality in into the branding because I think the fan connection there is gonna be a lot stronger. Yeah, I'm honored.

Honestly, the they perceive me as an actual dude. Honestly, the the only video I could find of you um of you talking was that like freestyle uh video that you did with the uh crash chant or what's their name? Yeah, yeah, Crash Adams. Or Crash Adams, sorry, Crash Champs, Jesus. I don't know where that came from. Anyways, Crash Adams, who like I had never I had never heard of. Holy shit. They go speaking of viral, they go viral as fuck all the time. Yes, sir. Um, and so that was like the first that was like the first and only video I could find of you even saying anything. And then it was basically just you'd be like, yeah, I'm an artist, I sing, and whatever. And then you just sang. So it was like, oh god, I don't know. I literally was like, I don't know if this guy will be able to fucking talk at all. I was like, hope he's gonna hope he's gonna show up to the podcast and be able to like share something about how he gets millions and millions of views. But that actually is AI. It's crazy. Yeah, that's the that's the accusation. That's what's going around in the world. Wow, that's hilarious, man. Well, Henry, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. Man, oh the the mil liker checklist is about to go so viral.

Let's get let's get mill likes on the mill liker checklist uh video that we're gonna make. I love it. Let's get a million likes on this video. If you guys haven't already, please like the video, leave a comment. Let's do it. Subscribe to the channel. We're fucked Because the language barrier thing is instantly uh. I know. They're doing some translation crazy stuff. They're working on it. I know, and we we already determined that like podcast content is just Well, wait for wait for a question number one here. So this is the rapid fire rampage with Citizen. I'm gonna break it down into three parts. The first part is just some short answer questions. Let's get into it. Yes. Hold on. One second. Yep. Okay, I'm locked in. Locked in. There we go. Perfect. I can't I can't hear locked in without rapid fire. I can't hear locked in without your song. Like you fucking ruined locked in. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Susan. Well, these first ones, you can go a little bit. The last two sections are more rapid fire.

These if you have some sauce. Don't permit it. Okay. I'm gonna abuse it. You just you just crack the door, he's busting it open. Question number one. Take as much time as you need because it is. What advice would you give this podcast to have a clip get a million views? Hmm. Um I mean, yeah, so you can get you could get um you don't need like incredible star power to just engage engage people. It's all about what what phrase you start the clip at. I think there's something somewhere uh a million views, not likes. Mill liker. Mill liker. Cause mill liker, that's that's hard. You need a visual element, you need to like do a failed backflip and break the table or something and start it out. Start it out for that to work. Henry, let's go. Sure. But I think it's a good thing. Don't fucking do it. Don't try it or something. Yeah, okay. Some social expectation. Um but uh a million views. I mean, I think, yeah, I think.

Have you is there a clip out there that achieved this? We we've only had a few. It's been a while. We've had a few of the podcasts. Yeah, we've had a few of the podcast clips, get a million views, and then we had a bunch of TikToks where we were drafting rappers and doing other stuff that wasn't like related to the actual like music business podcast that we run. Uh we had plenty, I feel like do you know million plus over there, but um, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, it's really dependent on the um those first three seconds, obviously. Uh, and uh something just if I said something shocking, some opinion I have that's like a familiar talking point that people can argue for or against instant discussion. Yes, especially if you don't have the star, like I I'm not enough star power to just have a million views anytime I talk, but um depending on what I say, yeah. If if people can rally for or against it instantly uh from whatever the first sentence that starts the clip, then that'll do it. Okay, say something extremely controversial right now so we can clip it.

Okay, let me let me not fuck up my career. Um, women can't drive worse than men, They could drive just the God. We're never gonna get a mill liker, bro. Who lost all his female? Yeah, I thought he was good at this shit, man. Good news is our analytics do not point to lots of females, so we're fine, I think. Yeah, so go ahead. I mean, apparently apparently we could do that on here. No one would hear it. 25 to 34 year old men. How y'all doing? Anyway, uh moving on. Top three things in a piece of content that make people stop scrolling. Top three things. Danger. You had danger ready. I was gonna do that one regardless. It just happened to fit. Ah, shit. Danger is like my go to.

That's it. That's all you need. Danger, danger, danger. Um, yeah, controversy. If you it doesn't have to be something like racist or sexist, just like I was saying with the discussion discussion. Um simplicity. Yeah, universal understanding. That's a big one, I think. Moving on. What is one type of music content that every artist should stop making right now? I want to say like performance clips that aren't um inspired. Like I think it's a shot, it's a it's a random lottery ticket if you're just in line for food and you're like, yo, let's you got your video art for it. You're like, Okay, let's do a take of the song. It's a you might get it, but it's like complete random, um, like luck-based uh visual to sonic cohesion. It's like if it doesn't have that marriage, you you have to design it.

Unintentional performance culture. I love that, man. It's good. The marriage, though. Yeah, we talk about it a lot, like the sonic and visual identities needing to like, you know, collide, but the marriage of them is a way more eloquent way to say it. He's good. He's good. Um kind of tying back into what we were talking about. What is your most controversial music industry opinion? Hmm. They need budget. Yes, facts. Probably that. I think people are starting to I mean, people people do agree on it, but it in terms of like industry, industry doesn't believe it. Yeah. Like they're that's kind of all they can do is go if that's working, let's put money on it or behind it. Which is a fair strategy, but like you have to have something work first, and that's it. And it does work. Yes. It does work. Yes. What is your toxic trait creatively? Um it's either uh I have like no shallow end for collaboration. I don't have like an easy mode for it's hard to like bring someone onto the team. I'm lucky to have like these really long-term collaborators, but it's like I can't really soften the um threshold of of quality.

Or what's like expected. Might be tough later on down the line. Interesting, interesting. What is your most unnecessary skill? Um shit. Um most unnecessary skill. I can like kind of turn my feet like backward. Oh, that's pretty cool. Okay. My knees are like loose. I don't know if we want a clip of that to show. Nah, we'll be fine. Moving on. I'll send you a photo. Okay, yeah, we'll take that. We'll take that. How many tabs do you have open right now spiritually? Spiritually, define spiritually. There's no further context to the question. Okay, I'll interpret. I think 40. 40. 40 spiritual tabs. It's A lot of spiritual tabs. Last one of the short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Fuck. Can I say that? That's the winner. That is the winner. I can say any yeah, we're yeah. It's the most uh powerful it's classic. It's a classic for sure.

I'm a shit man. It's not too uh abrasive. Yeah, no, I agree. Moving on to the this or that, I'm gonna give you two choices. You just have to pick one of them. Starting with big on the internet or big IRL. Career-wise IRL, I guess, because that's that's like s take uh I want people to be in the theater. Yeah, that's true. Great idea or great execution. Uh oh. oh God. I knew that would fuck him up, dude. fuck. Um great execution. I see so many really good ideas that or I know people who like have better ideas than they can even pull off. Um this is like so difficult what when you're hiring freelance people and it's like the quality varies depending on who you hire. So if you don't translate your idea, yeah, it can just doesn't matter if the idea is amazing. Blender or premiere?

Blender. Lyrics or Melody? Blender is a video editor. Oh, in it? So you can do like basically everything. You can do anything. It's like it's like me, but as a but as a program. The video editor's not that great though. Don't use it. Um use DaVinci Resolve. If you could just record music in there, you'd be in one program shorty. Anyway, lyrics or melody. Damn. Lyrics. Release what you like or release what works. Release what you like. AI or AI. AR. Clap back or ignore it. Ignore it. Make a hit song with your sworn enemy or make a flop with your bestie. Mm. Flop with your bestie. You can solve it yourself for the rest of your life. He's a real one. He's a real one. And finally become a full-time videographer and editor or leave the music industry forever. I can make movies though. For other people's music. Mmm.

Wait. No, he said, can he make movies? Wait, say the question again. I think that's a lose-lose. You are a music, you only do Become a full-time videographer or leave the industry? You only do music videos and music content for other people. Or you leave the music industry. You could if you leave the music industry, you can do movies. But if you want to be in music, you're not doing your own music anymore. Oh, oh, oh. I would leave and I would do movies. Okay. Part two. Last part is the word association. Citizen, I'm gonna say one word. I just need you to give me the first word that you think of off the top of your head. This is the most rapid fire part of the Rapid Fire Rampage. Lock it in. Starting with. I'm locked in. Music. Melody. Viral. Content. Toilet. Seat. Troll. Me. 2027. Uh Aspiration. Industry plant. Overrated. Blown. Overblown. Spotify. Charting. Pro Tools. Expensive. Coffee.

Bangin'. Guilty pleasure. Coffee. Emoji. Skull. Citizen. The artist. Let's go. What a goddamn interview. Guys, this has been a viral content marketing crash course. Blueprint, guys. Like, comment, and subscribe to the motherfucking channel.