71 Minutes of Tough Love For Indie Artists ft. Jane Lee

I mean, encouragement is cheap these days. Everyone does it, right? Because everyone wants to be liked. And that's the biggest problem indie artists have today. I think right now the internet is full of people telling artists, you got this, keep going, you know, go give yourself some affirmations in the mirror. And emotionally that feels good, but does it really actually help somebody grow? If you're an indie artist, the internet is not short on people telling you to keep going, keep believing, keep manifesting. We're even a little guilty of it ourselves sometimes. But your new indie mama, Jane Lee, is not one of those people. She's giving you that raw truth, whether your ego likes it or not. Oh, I am a perfectionist. Shut up. Perfectionism to me is just procrastination in disguise. And that right there is basically the energy of this whole episode. Jane shines a big bright light on all the excuses that independent artists are using, like perfectionism and the algorithm, not posting enough, not having enough time, not knowing who the f you are online. And she's not just talking from the sidelines, she is practicing what she preaches.

Everything was possible because I made that first post. I have three businesses. And I have a husband and three kids. If I can post six times a day, you can post once. And the biggest gut punch of the entire episode is when Jane explains that your real problem isn't time or money or opportunities. It's your fear. They're all scared. They're scared of of failure, scared to be seen. And the number one thing for indie artists, you have to love being seen. This is one of those episodes you're probably not gonna want to watch, but you need to watch. There's even a couple moments where Jane asks why we're being so quiet, because she was literally leaving us speechless. So if you've been feeling stuck, hiding behind excuses, avoiding the hard truths about what it really takes, this episode is the kick in the ass that you need. And at the very least, it's gonna force you to ask yourself a very real question. I don't think everybody's built for this, to be honest with you. It's not for everybody. Bro, they said it couldn't be done.

We got the indie mama Jane Lee on the fucking podcast, Henry. Indie mama, let's go. Oh my god, here to solve all of our independent artists' needs. And we have plenty. We have so many questions for you, indie mama. Who told you guys that it couldn't be done. Yeah. I love you guys. Fucking haters. Love you guys. Hey, we love you too. so much. I was a fan long before you got you guys even found me. Did you hear that, Henry? Wow. Oh my gosh. Um, but no, so you know, you've been known to uh give our indie artist community a little bit of tough love. Let's just call it what it is. Why start off that strong. We're just gonna we're gonna get right into it. I just want to make sure that anyone who's not familiar with you understands what they're up against for the next, you know, 60 to 90 minutes. Um but so what why do you think why are you using that approach, right? Because there's some people out there that take the like, you know, a little sensitive, compassionate, like softer approach.

We love you, indie artists. And like I know you have love for them, but you you shoot the shit straight. Like you're a no BS type of gal. Why do you use that approach with you know your artist community that you um support? I mean, encouragement is cheap these days. Everyone does it, right? Because everyone wants to be liked, and that's the biggest problem indie artists have today. I think right now the internet is full of people telling artists, you got this, keep going, you know, go give yourself some affirmations in the mirror. And emotionally that feels good, but does it really actually help somebody grow? Especially in this industry where we know it's cutthroat all day, every day, right? So when you really love music though, you eventually run into a lot of uncomfortable uncomfortable truths. And you know, loving something doesn't automatically make you good at it. And I think that people need to really understand that concept. It just means that you know, people have to be willing to wrestle with truth.

I think if you really love something, you when somebody tells you the truth, it's a form of love. And also, I told you guys, I'm a mom. I have three kids. I've been a mom for some time now. And I've learned a lot about how to nurture and help them grow. And it's not by telling them that they're good every day. It's just not. And I think it's a lot harder for me to discipline them and to tell them the harsh truths of what they're going to be facing when they get out into the real world, and also catch them when they're making mistakes and tell them exactly what the problem is or was. So that's how I don't give a fuck about being liked, you guys. Which is kind of the ironic part because you're so well liked also. That's how it works. Am I? I don't know. I mean, you've got a pretty strong community. I think I do, yeah. Yeah, and I think I love what you said just about like preparing them for the actual music industry because a lot of indie artists are clearly kind of like operating on their own, in you know, in their own house, right?

Like they're recording by themselves, they're shooting content by themselves, and they don't necessarily deal with the industry side of it. No a lot, right? They don't. Especially early on, and so I do think that it's fair to, you know, be taking this approach because like ultimately, if you see any level of success, you're gonna be hounded by cutthroat, you know, dog eat dog labels. You're gonna have people try and screw you out of deals, you're gonna have like producers try and charge you for XYZ when they shouldn't. You're gonna have all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of you. Like indie artists are probably the most taken advantage of, you know, people in the whole ecosystem of music. So I know that it comes from a good place, but like, do you think there is a line between like, you know, tough love and kind of like I guess discouraging people? I don't know. How do you navigate that as you're you know uh sharing content, thoughts on the industry, et cetera? I don't fucking care. Guys, here's the thing is that if you're gonna be discouraged about the truths of what's supposed to help you progress in your career, then you really don't want it that bad, anyways.

You know, like here's the thing it's everyone's so soft. Like, and I maybe it's because I grew up in the 80s and the 90s and I got beat, you know. I don't know if it's because um I was disciplined, I practiced six to eight hours a day. Like I was sometimes forced to do that. I come from a time where, you know, it we weren't soft, like it was all about discipline and execution. So when people get discouraged with just words, like do you even really want to do this artist thing? Because you're gonna step into rooms into into meetings, and they're gonna listen to your song for 10 seconds and tell you you suck. Like, and here I am, I'm taking time with you to tell you what needs to get better. So if that is discouraging, then I don't know what to tell you. I don't fucking care if you don't like me. Like I'm only speaking to the ones that really want to be spoken to too.

And I think when you say you're very much liked, I think I've done a pretty good job of filtering through the people who really want the truth and don't want the truth. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's as we've kind of been working with, you know, the independent artist community, there are different types of indie artists. And I think you're just being very okay with the fact that you're gonna attract the ones who actually do want to fucking get better and don't want to just have their back padded, right? And their ego stroked, uh, which honestly is a huge subset of indie artists like that exists, right? It's like it's so annoying. Yeah, it's like we've had We, you know, we've done the music review thing. I know you do a lot of music reviews on stream, and it's like, you know, I I noticed that some would come on and we'd maybe like say something critical, they'd never be on the stream again, right? And then there's some that like if you say a lot of nice things, they'll keep coming back.

And then the second that you don't and you say something critical, it's maybe their ghost, right? And then there's some that I think fall into the people in your community where it's like they take the constructive feedback from us from a point of love, being like, look, these guys actually gave a flying fuck enough to think critically about my song, about my artist brand to help me develop and get better. Because, like, y'all, you have to be like whether you're independent or signed, it doesn't matter. It's like you have to be operating at the highest level. The product has to be a one, right? Like, we can't like, yes, people say, like, oh, there's bad music that you know breaks through. Maybe for a second, not for long. Like, let's just be honest. Like the people that are actually here today and still here years from now, the music's fucking good, or at least a a large population, a large enough population of fans consider it good, right? Or else they wouldn't be there. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's just been fascinating to kind of like watch you speak to the community and like just die. I mean, I'm like all up in your comments a lot of times, just being like, you know, what are people thinking about because like you know, you you have a lot of hot takes, and I feel like I do they're they're definitely like well received from a lot, and then some you can just tell are just like one to argue with a fucking brick wall, you know what I mean?

And that divisiveness, I think, is great, you know. And I think it's something artists need to be looking for in their content too, is like you know, agree. What is your unique take or perspective on something that's gonna get the conversation started in the comment sections and you've nailed that agree? Here's the thing, and I tell this to the indie artists all the time is that who are you for? Because if you are for everybody, you are for nobody. And the fans out there watching your content, they're extremely smart. They know because they're watching content all day. They they see 10,000 faces all day, doom scrolling. They know what's genuine and what's not, and so like the problem is they don't take a stand. You know what I mean? And they don't they don't have the bravery or the courage to say, I'm actually for these groups of people and I'm not for these people. So then they try to blanket their whole content and their songs and their everything to please everyone. And what that does is you please nobody.

Yeah, nobody trusts you. You're like the people pleaser in in real life. Who wants to be friends with the people pleaser? Because they will be the first to stab you in the back. You know, so it's like, how come we don't think about our content and our you know expression and the way that we share ourselves with the world? It's like you can't be for everybody. And I'm so firm on that. 100%. Yeah, it's it's wild. I feel like, you know, we just had Sean Garrett on the podcast, and he talked about how you know he writes hit songs based on like real life conversations. And I feel like I feel like if artists could um, you know, try to like emulate real life more and just be okay with the fact that, like, hey, you're gonna be friends with maybe people that are kind of like like-minded as you, right? It's not just that you need to not, you know, be respectful and tolerant of other people that aren't, but it's like people tend to, you know, group off in in you know, ways of like thinking or you know, you know, interests or whatever the case may be. And yeah, I do think there's a hesitancy, and we even have it sometimes, bro.

You know, we're gonna tell me, tell me because what's going on? I just think get into it. I'm here for you. No, I mean, the the the biggest thing that we tried to um you know dance around is like, oh well, should we be catering to the managers in the music business and the ARs and the industry people, some producers? Producers and like some people that are instrumentalists only and just like make music that way. It's like, no, we're talking to the artists, and like anyone else who wants to like come along for whatever commentary is happening for the artists because they're impacted by artists. If you're a producer, you should probably know what artists are trying to do so that you can help support them. If you're a manager, managing artist, duh. If you're an AR, right working with artists, you know, no shit. Um, but I think we're just pretty clear now about like we're gonna be speaking to artists in the way that we're presenting content and our episodes and you know, our just daily lives, um, and just being okay with that. You almost have to decide who you're not for. I think that's like a better way to frame it. Right?

100%. Yeah. 100%. You know, when you decide who you are for, you are simultaneously saying these are the people that I am not for. And it has to be super clear. And I think for you guys, I'm not gonna give you a consultation or anything right now, but it, you know, it's just the thing is if you look at my um like metrics, I would say I have a pretty good mixture of engineers, producers, artists. Uh I it's kind of executives, you know. Um, it's interesting because my content, yes, is aimed for the artist, but again, like you said, everybody's a part of the ecosystem. Yeah. And the people that are interested in working with artists will also pay attention. You know? Yeah. So is she gonna bill us for that consultation? I don't know. I didn't know I didn't know what she meant by that. Um, so you know, so we talk about the artists that you know, you think want it badly enough. What are some behaviors that you see artists that like want it bad enough in your mind?

Like, what are things that they're doing on a regular basis? Maybe that the overcoddled ones aren't. It's very simple. Like they work fucking hard, they make a lot of mistakes. You know, they're they're open to making mistakes. They would rather do than not do. So that's what I'm seeing with a lot of these indie artists that are are seeing momentum in their pay on their pages and their music and their streams, et cetera. It's just they keep trying. And it's an it, it's it's a it's a trait that I don't see often. I don't I hear I hear a lot of people saying or complaining about the algorithm or complaining about how people don't care. They don't like their stuff, they scroll past, they complain about the system, they complain about the labels not paying attention to them. They complain about people who shut up.

Like seriously shut up. Because the thing is, what does that do for you? The ones that are acting like really practicing and doing things silently, those are the ones that are seeing motion right now. Yeah, I think it's the the action failing faster. And it's also about like doing their, and I hate to say right because no one really knows what the right thing always is to do, but it's a lot of people mistake like action. Imagine If you're doing the wrong things and you're just doing a lot of the wrong things, then you're not actually making any progress, you know. So there is some fine line of like just because you're tired from all the things you have to do, it's like, I mean, again, not to use us as an example, but like we've gotten derailed sometimes where it's like we're, you know, we feel like we're doing a million, you know, things, but it's like we look back and we're like, what did we even just spend all this fucking time doing? And what was the result? You know?

Um, so I think, you know, what I would recommend is like kind of auditing your your uh busyness, right? Being like, yeah, you feel so busy, but it's like, what am I busy with? And then what actually resulted from it? Because you know, there's only so many hours in the day. A lot of indie artists are working other, you know, jobs to pay the bills while they're trying to fund their music career, right? Um, so we gotta be pretty laser focused, you know, with our time. And so I think again, it's that trial and error. It's not to say that you gotta get it right the first time, but if you start, you know, focusing on certain things and maybe you're not seeing the results, you know, I think it's auditing what you're doing, but then yeah, auditing the quality too, like you said. I mean, is it is it is the music quality not there? Is the level of the content not there? Is the messaging not there? Is the visual brand not there? Um, but I think it's that like audit that should be happening probably more frequently, and you're really good about holding us accountable for that, where he's like, yo, let's just like what are we doing? What did we just know?

And it's not even what are we doing now? It's like, what did we just do for the last month? What was that for? And what actually happened? And you know, should we be doing more of it or should we maybe not be doing something? And is each thing we're doing specifically aligned with a goal? Yes, you know, I mean, that's literally like it's if any artist should be able to answer like what are your exact goals? Do you want more streams? Do you want to sell tickets? Do you want to sell merch? Do you want to go whatever? Like and every hour, you know, should be linked toward pushing you toward one of those goals. Otherwise, I don't see the point. 100%. 100%. But I think what I'm noticing a lot is that indie artists, they have common excuses that continue to come up over and over again. And it's like the audits, it's great. I always tell them export your data every 30 days, every 60 days, every 90 days, whatever works best for your and and do an audit. But the thing is, it's like we're not even there yet. Like they're like, you know what I mean? Like most of them aren't even there yet. It's like the okay.

First common excuse is oh, the algorithm hates me. Yeah, I'm being shadow banned. That I hear that all the time. Artists say that the algorithm is suppressing them. Um, but but here's the thing algorithms are just mirrors, they're they're human behaviors, it's human psychology. And it reflects that. And so if you if your perspective is, oh, they've shadow banned me, then you're not gonna be consistent. Your excuses are actually stopping you from being consistent and posting more, right? Um and the other thing is is the the excuse of perfectionism. Oh, I I am a perfectionist. Shut up. Like that's the one thing I hate because it's like because like the thing is perfectionism to me is just it's it's procrastination in disguise. Like you just don't want to do it because you're scared. There's a lot of fear that's embedded into perfectionism. Perfectionism sounds noble.

It's like people think, oh, when I say I'm a perfectionist, it makes me look like I care about the details, but most of the time it's just fear of of releasing something and being judged or evaluated, right? That's that's the other thing. And then the other common excuse I hear all the time is I just don't have the time. The time is just I'm wearing too many hats. And it's like everybody else has to do the same thing that you do. So what are you gonna do? Are you gonna you're gonna just sit there and say, I don't have the time to look at my data like that? Or are you just gonna sit down and fucking do it? It's it's but again, like I don't know. I don't even at that place where we're supposed to tell most of these artists like you have to audit your data. They're not even fucking doing it. Period. There's no data. There's no fucking data. Like, so like what? What are you supposed to do at that point? Right?

So that's why I go ham on them about just starting to do. And I and I I made a post recently about how you know I know you know you guys know I was in Atlanta with Tricky Stewart, and I was. And not us. Yeah, we know. So I we know. Yeah. Why'd you even have to like say that for our community? now our community thinks we're not important enough to get Jane Lee in person? Well, we're not as important as Tricky Stewart, I'll be honest. Tricky? We'd love to have her on the podcast. Yeah. No, that's not true, guys. I wanted to be with you. I wanted to be with you guys. Not bad enough. Not bad enough. Your schedule didn't align with mine. So okay, Henry, don't believe her. More specifically, Ben's schedule. Okay, then. Ben, it's your fault. Jesus Christ, how did I get thrown under the bus here? Well, I mean, if you want to banter with me, I am Queen Banter. Okay. Like, I will always have a shot back at you. But anyways, I was going back to, I made a post and I said, I'm here in my hotel room.

I am in Atlanta, about to go to my interview with Tricky Stewart. I just finished my interview with La Russell, and everything was possible because I made that first post one year ago. I started the social media journey a year ago. Okay. And I also said, not only because I had the uh the courage to put myself out there with zero followers on TikTok, nobody was there. Um, and then I just consistently posted. I average around six posts a day. You know? Yeah. So level up, Henry. Yeah. For the last year, I have been averaging five to six posts a day. And I, and I continue to tell them I'm not special. You know, if anything, I'm old. Like I don't y'all are good looking. You cute, you're you're 15, 20 years younger than me.

There's no reason why I should be popping off on social media more than you. I thought she was talking to us at first. No, I literally was like, she's calling us cute. She let her know. You guys are cute. You guys are cute in your own way. But then I realized she was talking about the artist, the hypothetical artist we're talking about the artists. I know. Keep up there. You guys are cute too. You guys are cute, cute white boys. Okay. Anyways, sorry. I just was like, wow, my fucking ego is like, yeah, we are too cute guys. You are and we can post. Seriously. But seriously, it's like, um, if I have I have three businesses. Okay. I have a nonprofit organization where we go into Title one schools and we teach music to kids in low-income areas that normally wouldn't have music. I have a board that I have to deal with. I have um a startup company and and I have a husband and three kids. Uh so if I can post six times a day, you can post once a day. Can you you know what I mean?

Any tips and tricks and what's your systems and strategies there? How are you maintaining that? Yeah, so I don't have a system and strategy really like God damn it, Jane. No, but here's why. Here's why the the system occurs when you realize who you're supposed to be online. The persona is what I decide to share with the public, right? And as long as I'm very clear, there's clarity there, then whatever I decide to post or talk about, as long as it fits in that, it's easy. So here's the thing: personas, right? Artists always talk about personas, personas. Oh, I need to be authentic, authentic. I want to be the thing is we are all personas in all areas of our life. You don't talk to your boyfriend or your girlfriend the same way you talk to your boss. You don't talk to the your boss the same way you talk to your child or your dog or an enemy or your best friend. For every unique situation, we choose who we are to that person.

We are still authentic, but it is circumstantial, right? And artists don't understand that. Look, how you present yourself on social media, you have to first determine who they are. And I know who my people are. There are the they're they're all the struggling music creatives, people that need help, people that feel alone, people that need a kick in the ass, people that want inspiration, they want education, but they also want to push. I know who I'm talking to. So therefore, when I wake up in the morning, if you look at my content, I'm in my PJs most of the time, because that's the only time I have to post content is my lunch break and my personal lunch break that I give myself. And when I wake up, because when I wake up, I literally don't wash my face, I don't brush my teeth, I grab my phone from my dresser, I turn it on, and I talk about the things that come to my mind, thinking about who that other person is on the other side of the phone. And that's why I can continue to create content like a machine, because I know who they are.

I know what they're thinking, I know what they need. And I'm just there to speak to those people. Jane makes me wanna turn on the tough, look. almost adopt the persona, man. Like I feel like there's something dormant in me, like Jane that's waking up. Indie Papa, Indie Papa and Indie Mama. Indie Unk. Indie Unk? Jesus. Um I hate to interrupt this episode, but guys, I got one thing on the mind right now, and it's data. I can't stop thinking about it. All the artists in 2024 are winning because of data. They know who their fans are. They have access to their fans. Do you? Spotify's not telling you who your fans are. Apple Music ain't telling you who your fans are. But our friends over at DistroKid created a feature called hyperfollow. Every single release, you can set up a pre-save campaign with a hyperfollow and get access to every single fan's email address. Now you can let them know when you have a show coming up, when you're dropping exclusive merch, when you're going live. And without the data, you're just bound by the algorithms of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.

No more relying on those platforms. We're going straight to our fans. DistroKid is the best DIY distributor. You can upload unlimited music for a ridiculously low rate. And you're gonna have access to features like hyperfollow. OMTdistro.com, You're gonna get 30% off when you sign up for DistroKid, and you can start collecting your fans' data today. Henry, let's get back into it. What's your guidance to artists who are struggling with like coming up with that persona that they want to portray online? Because I think that's the big, that's the biggest thing that I think artists struggle with is just not knowing who they even want to be or should be or could be, right? It's overwhelming because, like, yeah, you like make this kind of music, but yeah, there's still like a lot of there's a spectrum still of like, okay, you can make this kind of music and be this type of person, you can make this kind of music and be that type of person, right? Like there's still some choices to be made while still not creating some persona that's so far away from like how you interact with a friend or whatever, right? Because you said it could be circumstantial, yes, but it still doesn't, it can't feel like disingenuine. right?

Or else that's gonna tank after a week or you know, whatever. Totally. So yeah, how do you help them come up with this? So I coined or I didn't know, I don't know if I coined the term, but this is what I've been thinking for the last few months is authentic curation. They still need to curate who they are, but they have to tap into who they authentically are, because if you try to be something that you're not, it's not you can't do it. And it's not, it's not sellable, nobody believes you. You look like an ass. You look like you're trying to be something you're not, right? And it's it's cringy. That's what's cringy. Because it's it's not, it doesn't transfer through the screen. So, like the authentic curation part is you still have to do the deep work of figuring out who you are and who and you have to go back to the music. And so what I do with artists is I have them audit the last five songs that they've written and give me the the words that continue to come up or the themes that continue to come up, because that in itself is a very natural representation of what the music stands for. So then you connect that to who you are.

And I always tell them go to your best friend and ask them to describe you in five sentences, and then you will figure out what your strengths are, personality strengths or your character traits are. And ask them also what sucks about you. And so then you know, oh, I have a temper, you know. And so, like when you gather all this information, you can figure out my music sounds like this. These are the things that I constantly talk about in my music. And my friends and the closest people around me view me as this because sometimes we have to see ourselves from other from another lens to really understand how we come off. You know, and so, and then they put that together, then they figure out, connect from your sonic identity, your and you yourself, who you are, and then start to create this persona. Then it's natural, it's natural, but you still have to curate it. Damn.

Wow, what Ben? I love that. Yeah. No, it's just like that's that's perfect, honestly. I want to add a little like something I've seen in the real world too, to start like getting comfortable, maybe trying to test your persona and content. I've just seen like a couple people, people around our age, we tend to take like our Instagrams very serious. We're very like precious about what we're posting. I have a couple like artist friends who start a brand new TikTok. It's kind of like it feels like more over here. Maybe don't even tell anyone about it. And you'll feel more comfortable like trying shit, I think. Just like random thoughts, random bits of who you are too. Um, just make like a burner TikTok and start posting some stuff and your wake-up thoughts, right? Your lunch break, pajama thoughts, whatever. Uh, that's just like a fun thing that I've seen people like feel more comfortable, at least getting into the experimenting and maybe with the authentic curation side of things could help break through that mental barrier, you know. Yeah, I love it. But the thing is the fear, if you can't get over the fear of posting on your own account, you can't like here's the thing is that when I and a lot of artists they say, well, I have like on my Instagram, I have my friends, my family from and like kids from high school, you know, and it feels, and I always tell them, well, then block them.

Block everybody. Go and block everybody. Whatever is in the way of you being consistently showing up, you need to take action. And then once you get in the habit of doing this and you understand that you're going to be judged, you're going to be evaluated. It's a part of the process, and you're okay with them. then unblock them. Right? Because the thing is it's like it and the burner account thing is is a great idea. I feel like a lot of the young artists, they can they should do that because I feel a little bit, I feel sorry for them because they grew up watching all of the content all day, every day, zoom scrolling and seeing everything. For me, that's not the case because I stand right on the line. I was before pre-phone, like pre-phone and post phone, you know. So like I I had a typewriter, you know, like that's that's me. Yeah, I know I had, you know, I come from that era, fax machines. I really literally had a fax, I had a fax machine, right?

So it's like I understand what it's like to not have that, but nowadays everybody grew up with that. So you're looking at all the famous artists and and the cars and the girls and the all of these things, and then you're looking at your shitty content that you made on your phone, and you're like, nobody likes this shit. And you're like, oh God, I'm not gonna do it anymore. We have to get over that. Yep. We do. There, there's no other way. Yeah. So, you know, yeah. So I mean, LaRussell is someone that we've had on the podcast twice. Blessed to call him a friend at this point. You just interviewed him at the pergola, um, you know, in his backyard. Um, let's just kind of like break it down from your lens. Like, yeah, what do you think LaRussell has done so successfully? Like just maybe pull a few plays out of his playbook that you think really every indie artist should should replicate. That's a great question.

I'm gonna start with this. When I was sitting at the pergola, and I was looking at the seats and where the choir stands and where the band is and the stage and and and the artwork and the logo and the grass and and the house that he grew up in. I was sitting there talking to him, and I realized that underneath all of this was just a plot of dirt and weeds. He literally said, This was just all dirt and all weeds, and I lived in that house since I was four. And he said, I looked at the backyard and I realized that I need to do something about my life from my home. I need to like I don't have a lot of money, I didn't have the resources, but I had that backyard. And that's where it starts. It's like I think artists are looking to get signed, they're looking to get co signed by all of these celebrities and these producers with a million followers, and they're like hoping that they can reach something, but you have to look at what you have, and that's what LaRussell did. He looked at what he had, he got his hands dirty, he pulled out the weeds, he got the dirt and laid the foundation, and he continued to grow it as his resources grew.

So if you look at what he's done, he's done everything in-house. Like everything, all of his family, all of the people. When I was there, when I was there, T was like, oh my gosh, we have a whole family of four or five coming from Amsterdam to the next show, to Vallejo, to his home. And this is all stuff that they built at home. And I think that's why it's you know, all of the things that he's doing with you know, even and and the ticketing and then the fans and the community building, it's beautiful. But the foundation of it all is I'm going to do what I can with what I have. A lot of artists don't, they look at what they have, they don't even know what they have. Yeah. Why are you guys so quiet? Am I talking to myself? I'm soaking it in. No, it's just I'm talking to myself. No, it's like some poetic shit. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, the fact that that's what you took from it was incredible, you know.

It was just way deeper than I ever even imagined. I was like, I was thinking, like, yeah, you know, uh consistency with content, like all these like other things were coming to my mind. The hairs are standing up. Henry does actually have goosebumps right now. That's crazy. Um, but but honestly, because I was like, I'm you guys are so funny, I'm crying. Okay, like I know he's crying. I literally like I I had chills too sitting there, like because like I was looking at my feet, I wore crocs to the interview because I wanted to show him like crocs are cool because of you. Yeah, I wore Crocs. I'm looking at my crocs and they're like on the grass, the artificial grass. And then I'm sitting where the he just made the bleachers not too long ago. And I got chills because I was like, when he said there was a bunch of weeds right there. It was just buckwheat, and then it was uh dirt. And like I was like, oh my god, that's literally what I'm sitting on right now. I'm uh and thousands of people come to this backyard that used to be a plot of dirt, and he turned dirt into like that, a community where a safe haven where people come, kids, grandparents with their grandchildren and they rap and they like how beautiful is that, you know.

Yeah, so indie artists need to make their pergola, you know, not like a literally, but their version of that. Yeah, and I and I mean, you know, something yeah, something even Ari Herstand, I think said on, on the podcast when we had him on. It was like, yeah, just just looking at your own like community and just your friends or family, like you might have a fucking cousin that wants to learn how to do social media and maybe is is good at it. And if you claim you're not, maybe like see if they'd be on board, like cause you know LaRussell has also been very open to like splits and like giving people stake in the thing that he's trying to build, because it's like, look, bro, if you don't have the money to hire someone, yeah, you gotta give them something, either, either like barter, like you know what I mean, or if it is just love because they're family, then you better do some fucking stuff for your cousin Help them move. Yeah, do something, right? But I I I like I like that concept of just like looking at what you do have because we're we're so quick. And again, I love to loop us and you know, or uh lump us us into this thing as well.

It's like we're so quick to be looking for like what else we need to go get, you know, to do the thing when it's like tap into the net there. might be just someone, Yeah, there might just be someone over here, someone over there that's like part of your, you know, kind of like, you know, sphere of influence, right? Uh that you just might be overlooking, or just some asset like a a dirt, you know, field next to your house that I mean how shit. Like that's crazy. The vision is crazy to even think about building a venue on that. And shout out to us, by the way. This garage was dirt. There was literally all the spoiler. This is a garage. Spoiler. That might be the first time that we've ever said. I love that. It's a garage that had dirt on the floor. It looks really nice. Thank you. It looks really nice. It's a beautiful dirt, dirty garage. Um, no, I mean air conditioning in there. Yeah, it's freezing in here right now, actually. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. Because it's already getting hot in Atlanta.

It's like 80 degrees in it. Yeah, I was already sweating my ass off. It was so humid. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Um, all right. So is there anything else that you know maybe you took away from that? Because that was your first time interviewing, you know, La Russell, right? Yeah, we had a well we had a full, like a a lot of time beforehand to chop it up. I was just sitting with him and we were just talking, talking, talking before the live. Um, as you guys know, all my interviews are live. Yeah, and then they get posted live. So we were just talking, and he was sharing about his life and what he's doing now, what what he's looking to do. There were some incredible things like phone conversations that happened while I was with him, and he was so excited to share with me that I can't share with you guys yet, but there's some crazy things happening. But here's one thing that I took away. His whole team was around him. And the way that he treated his team and the way that I got to meet his mom, I hugged his mom, and just that whole community is so it's it's something I've never seen before. Because I've been in in this industry doing this a long time.

I've never experienced that much love before. And if you're noticing, he's they're going out and exercising together at 5:30 in the morning. He's trying to spur the them on to be disciplined and um to show up for themselves. And then actually after the whole live, um a few of them stood in line to talk to me. It was it was it was really cute. They all stood in line to have like a one-on-one conversation with me. And I took my time to you know go through what they need to do, and it was it it's beautiful, and that's why you see them showing up for him, like they are ride or dying for him, yeah, like hardcore. It's so uplifting, man. But so, you know, a lot of people love to talk about like artists or the CEO of their business, whatever. And with LaRussell, it couldn't be more true. He actually this guy's an actual fucking exec, like he's actually the boss, he's actually inspiring, motivating, leading his team. But like, do you think that that's what indie artists need to be?

Or can someone else do that? Like in what sense? Because most of them are operating by themselves right now, right? True. So that's a whole other they have no choice. At this point, it's like most of them, I would say a large majority of them are doing this on their own. Because nobody joins a team when you have no motion or momentum. Yeah. It's up to you to get into the motion and and and attract people to you. Yeah. But again, going back to what I said before, they're not even doing that. And complaining about the fact that they don't have a team. Would you join a team when there's nothing happening over there? I don't think so. I love that. I think it's like I love that too. I think it's like you can hire a CEO eventually, but you need to get you need to be able to do it yourself first, right? You need to prove like what this looks like as the CEO of your business. And then if you want to pass that off when the time comes.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of like tech companies have founders that obviously build the product. Right. They start getting some like beta testing groups, and people are like, oh, this app's pretty fucking dope. Like more and more people are interested. Then you hire the dev. You might hire. Well, I'm saying, but or then you might bring someone on who actually is like an exec. CEO. Right? Because it's like if you're just a nerd that built some really cool app and you don't really want to lead the company, that's why a lot of these tech founders kind of get like sent over to be like the CTO or something, where it's like you can still have your title, but like you think about Silicon Valley, someone else is gonna is gonna come in and like run the shit like a real business, you know. But you know, I I guess once you do have the the motion, because that's a whole other thing, you're right, it's a whole other thing of how do we get that, but like if in any by posting consistently she didn't even need to say much more. So guys, what I mean, okay, y'all complain about not having money, but posting is free. So if you're not gonna do the free things, then what makes you think that you should pay for something?

You can't even do the free things. You can do it a hundred times a day, but you won't even do it once a day for your career. And then you claim that you have a dream. A dream of what? What the fuck is your dream about? Like you sitting there on your couch and hoping that somehow magically your music career is gonna turn into this big like it doesn't make any sense. You get what I mean? Like it doesn't make any fucking sense. It just doesn't. Yeah. No, I'm actually free shit. Yeah. Do it. I'm actually like just now realizing like if an artist, if I handed an artist $20,000, like what would they actually spend it on? They haven't done the free shit. This is crazy. Um okay, so other than LaRussell, is there any other like indie? Because that's just like one that we have mutual um that we both love.

Yeah, is there any any other indie artist that's kind of like you know, you know, rose to the kind of like cream of the crop status of indie artists that you think is uh an example that the community should maybe like deep dive into? Because I think LaRussell is a really easy one, he's very you know, um, out in the public as kind of like king of independence. Is there any other examples that you like to kind of point people to? I mean, obviously, Russ, yeah, obviously. That's a that's like that's a given. Yeah, but any artist with Russ in their name, apparently. Just add, just add Russ to whatever your name is. Why is it like that? It's so weird. But um, there, you know, a funny story. Uh, you guys know that I do my music reviews every Friday. Yeah. And uh I go live for about six to seven hours on that Friday, listening to music and really spending time to giving them direction on what and I go through their socials too. But um uh one time this person sent in a a song, and I listened to the song, and my first immediate words were, you're a fucking troll, aren't you?

Because it was so good. The music was so good. I had no idea who it was. And I was like, I don't know who you are, but you are a fucking troll because this shit is next level. Turns out people on the chat were like, they were like, Oh, he's really famous. I was like, Who is it? And they were like, it's it's this French artist named his name is Relay, R-I-L-E-S. And and I was like, what? So I went to his socials, he has like a million followers, and he's like selling out all over Europe right now. And he has like all of the it he submitted his song, and his comment was I want to know if this is cringe. That's the troll part. No, no, but that's probably honest. No, no, no. I don't think it was a troll because he was like, Because I um my native language is is French, and the song was in English. Oh. He was like, I want, but but the song is like insanely blowing up. But like I'm the only one that didn't know who he was.

But uh, but again, like I was like, are you fucking kidding me? And you go to his account, he's posting on TikTok like three, four times a day, and you go and he's selling out stadiums right now. And he's he's and he and he DM'd me. And I'm not gonna go into the detail of it, but he's independent. And there's so many of them like that out there that are just and again, super consistent with content, just pumping it out like a machine. Post the goddamn content. It's like. Post the goddamn content. Dude, Seriously. But like, but honestly, you guys, like you guys need to post more. Jane, I mean, it's true. Trust me. Agreed. Yeah. And yeah. We're gonna have a chat after this episode about that. If you guys feel bad for that roast that we just got in that reality check, please like this video, leave a comment, subscribe to the channel for bringing you the tough love that you need to hear with people like your indie mama Jane Lee.

You didn't say it until now, bro. I've been locked in on the tough love. Oh, fuck. We gotta have a producer that's here just to say like, comment, and subscribe to the channel, bro. Or I'll record a video of me asking like, comment, subscribe, We'll just drop it in the video every fucking 10 minutes. Oh my god. Multiple people commented on that one where you were going crazy. I did it four times, and then I was like, I did it on the fourth one. And then another person was like the like, comment, subscribe, uh, CTA works. Like we had like multiple comments basically confirming that it works. So please leave more comments if that you subscribe because of this ridiculous tangent. Do you feel do you feel like a little bit weird about having a CTA all the time? Ah, yeah, It's Annoying. I mean, it just feels, buddy. Everybody, you fucking listen to me right now. You better like and subscribe to this podcast right now, motherfuckers. Do you understand what I'm saying? Can we use her voice actually? Might add that to the soundboard. Yeah. Listen to me. If you want real information that's going to help you out in your career, indie artists all over the world, you should like, you should subscribe to this podcast. Do you want a better life?

Then do it now. Clean. That's incredible. Lock that in. Alright. We have your rights. Do you have your permission to use that? It's all yours. Cool. Let's go. We'll ask Ryan. I think that counts. Okay. Awesome. All right. So tell me you're an indie artist without telling me telling me. Tell me you're an indie artist without telling me you're an indie artist. There you go. You're scared. You're little shitheads. You're a little like you're scared. That like who have you ever met an indie artist starting out that's not scared? Like, literally, have you guys? Maybe like a young kids that are just like filled with confidence. No, that's that's false confidence, right? Like, like, like, really, like, they're all scared. They're all scared. They're scared of of failure, but they're also scared of like they're just scared to be seen. And the number one thing for indie artists, you have to love being seen. You have to want to be seen, whether you're liked or you're hated.

If you notice all of the artists that we love and adore, they they're not scared to be seen. Do you think that's something that people can learn or get better at? Like, or if someone is scared to be seen, should they just stop? That's a good question. I don't think everybody's built for this, to be honest with you. I think it's a special breed, but you're not gonna know until you go full on. And it's not my place to tell you whether you can or you can't, but in my personal opinion, uh it it's it's not for everybody. It takes us a certain it you have to have this burning, burning, burning, like burning desire to want to do it. That the fear is a lot you you can ignore the fear because all of us have fear, all of us don't like to be judged. Our brain is is there to protect us from all of this, right? Like it's it's telling us don't post, people are gonna hate your shit. Like it's trying to protect us, but it's like, but in our heart, if we really want to do this, and and that desire is so much greater than the other voices inside our head, then it'll work.

It doesn't disappear, it doesn't go away. But it's like which voice is louder for you, right? Because whatever voice is louder for you is gonna spur you into that direction for action. It's a good one. Wow, yeah. Oh man, yeah, she's not wrong, Henry. She's not wrong. Haven't heard anything wrong. yet. I know, I just so badly wanted to be like, no, but it's just like, shut up. You know what's so funny. You know what's so funny? I went on Curtis's podcast, right? I went on Curtis's thing, and then as we were going on, he's like, Why do I feel like you're talking to me? That's Kind of how I feel. No, Henry is gonna. I already know the conversation that we're gonna have as soon as you like jump off this podcast, so I'm just playing it in my head. Like, that's what Henry's gonna say after this. But guys, let me explain to you something like Instagram. I started cross-posting in May, just from TikTok. So TikTok I've been doing since February of last year.

Uh, I started cross-posting in May, and you know, right now, I don't know, I'm at like 125k followers right now from like 5,000. I have 5,000 in May. Yeah. Um, and I I spent zero dollars on ads. Yeah. Nothing. No money, no money on production, no money on equipment, literally from my phone, which tells you that if you're consistent and you know your audience and you are faithful and could like really thinking about who they are and what they need, and you just go ham, it's bound to work. Yeah. There's eight billion people in this world. Like, I think I can get a hundred thousand of them. You know what I'm saying? Like to feel like my content is helpful for them. Yeah. Or my music is helpful for them. Yeah. So I just don't think there are any excuses. Yeah.

So someone just DM'd us. as part of our community. they sent us a video from Promo God, who we've also had on the podcast, who I just I love his stuff, man. He's just one of those guys where you're like He's not afraid to post. No, he's not. Um, and it's so simple, like the shit that he like says, but it just like clicks for a lot of people, and then like it's great. Um, basically, he was saying that, you know, you should promote a song for uh a year, essentially. Yeah, he he sent this or he, you know, he made this post. One of our community members sent it to me, being like, What do you think about this strategy? And he was talking about like, you know, don't just promote every song for a year, but like if something is, you know, showing signs, you know, that it's working or connecting, then like you know, promote it for like over a year, and that's how you can can like continue to blow up the song. Um, it made me think about just an independent artist's release strategy now, right? In 2026, we've we've come from like the Russ effect where it's like let's drop every week.

Then people kind of like pump the brakes on that. It was like at least once a month because of the editorial pitching every four days, whatever, right? People have their their thoughts on this. I do want to just get some you know tidbits from you around like release strategies. Clearly, you think that posting content daily or as much as you know you physically can six times a day. Yes, six times daily is part of it. But just like if you were an emerging, you know, indie artist, um, what what would be kind of like your release playbook for 2026? Like what's the plan? Because I think a lot of artists, again, like something that they do struggle with is just like, what should I be doing and how much of it and how often and whatever, right? So what what would be your guidance on the plan? I think it depends on the artist. Um, some artists can output like a vending machine, right? They can make a song a day, right? So it it really depends. But I I I honestly make good music.

That's the first thing. Okay, make good music. It's a big thing. Yeah, it's a big thing because I see a lot of marketing um advertisements out there that are saying, oh, the music doesn't need to be good, the marketing does. Uh that's not the business that we're in, right? It's it's make good music, give yourself time to be creative and to uh really hone in on creating great music. But after that, and and if you look at the K-pop ecosystem for you know, example, I'm I'm my background is in K-pop. So I know a lot about what they do over there. They record and finish everything a year before it's even launched, right? A year, sometimes 16 months like in advance. They prep for the whole year. They prep everything album release, content, etc., etc. etc.

I think that indie artists, when I talk about curation, like you have to look at what you have, you have to look at your output, the ability to output, and you have to look at your audience to know whether you should be um, you know, doing a song promo for a whole year, or if you have a community that's already starting to grow and they need consistency, they need nurturing, they want more music from you, then you need to actually make more music and release it more often. It's we're in the day and age where not one thing is gonna work. It's not gonna work because everybody can have their own community. Every single artist can have a community of 200 people, 500 people, 800 people, 10,000 people. So depending upon who you are, what you are able to do, the type of content that you make, what your audience looks like, that strategy also has to change. I don't think one size fits all works anymore.

You guys don't talk to me. I feel like I'm talking to myself. We just want to let you cook. You're talking you're talking to the audience. You're just sitting there looking at me, and I'm like, what like am I boring to you? Oh my gosh. Usually The furthest thing from it. I was gonna say, usually Henry has to tell me to shut up and you know, or the or our our community tells me to shut up. So um, yeah. But that's why it's important because you have to know you. You have to know your audience. You have to know where you are in your community building, especially as indie artists. We're supposed to go DTC, we're supposed to grow our home, not think about being on the charts. So if you're thinking about, and I always tell tell artists this like music, doing music and being in the music industry is very much like a relationship. Like, you know, you go out on a first date, you're not gonna be like showing off, you're not gonna be just talking about yourself. You're not gonna just be going ham on like this is me, I'm gonna impress you because they're gonna run away.

The the other person's gonna run away. If you just talk about you and you don't think about them, they're not gonna go on a second date with you. And it's the same thing when you're like approaching your community building. You have to know what they need. That's why one size doesn't fit. Like, if you go on out to just have some fun and get some ass, then you're gonna be different with that person. You know what I mean? Like, it's not gonna be the same. Yeah. Oh man. But again, right? Like, if you want to build your home, you and I always tell them we talk about world building, world building when you don't even know how to build a home for people to walk into. How are you gonna build a world? Like, build a home, have a door, open the door, give them an invitation to come in. When they come in, how are you gonna keep them there? Like, think about it like when you invite somebody to your house, are you just gonna tell them to sit on the couch and leave? No, you're gonna give them food, you're gonna sit there and talk to them.

You're gonna you're gonna offer a drink and you're gonna turn on some music. You're not just gonna leave. And then people are building their email lists. These indie artists are building their email lists and they're doing shit with them. And they wonder why it doesn't work. Because you're not taking care of the people that have decided to walk into the door and give you their personal information. So it's like what we're not gonna interrupt you. You're fucking rolling. You're rolling. I was like, what about the email list? What's next? Yeah. The analogy of the home in the world building was crazy too. I was like, you're spazzing right now. But here's the thing, right? It's like they don't even know where the door is because they have no CTA, they have nowhere to invite them into. They have they're building these walls and there's no door, and all these people are looking at their content, walking around this house, wondering how they're supposed to get in, and there's no door. You don't make a door, and you have to open the door, and you have to tell them here, join my email list.

They walk into the door, here, give me your SMS. They walk into the door, then it doesn't stop there. You have to continue building it and growing your home. You can expand the home, have more square footage, add more rooms, but until you fill the house, what's the point of doing that? Right? So it's like whenever artists come in for a consultation, think about this like life. It's it's literally life, life lessons that you just use the wisdom that you've learned and apply it to what you're doing with your own community. Yeah, I think we I think we overcomplicate it sometimes. And you if you neglect them, they're gonna leave. Yeah, I think we make it something that it's not, or we want it to be this like super confusing complex thing when, like, yes, there's like nuances to it, but at the end of the day, just using real life as like the foundation for it all is kind of a at least like a default that you should always be falling back on of like, hey, how did I even get friends in the first place? Like, how did I get that girl to go out with me that one time and continue to go out with me?

You don't make content, you don't make content, and you expect people to feel like they trust you enough to go to your house. That's scary. I'm not gonna go to your house if I don't know you and I don't trust you. You continue to invite me into your house. You're a creep at that point. Yeah, we invited Jane Lee onto the podcast because she made content that we resonated with, yeah. And she couldn't make time for us in person. I mean, that's insane. We don't have to rehash that, but whatever. You guys are dizzy, okay? Don't even turn it around on me. Don't even I flew to Atlanta, okay? It's not like y'all came here. For Kato, and let me let the record show that both Kato and Jane Lee conspired against me in a in a racially charged plot to try and make me out to be to try and make me out to be some Asian hater. What is this? They tried to pretend that they were cousins and they tried to give me to like fall for the bait just because they're both fucking Asian. That's pretty funny.

And they did it independent of each other, too. It was insane. That's pretty good. I was like, are they in cahoots? Like, this is crazy. First of all, Kato is my cousin for real. No, he's not. Don't buy it, bro. This is What do you mean? now I don't know what to believe, no. He's not her cousin, guys. Why are you gotta say that? Just because there's two Asian people in the music industry, you can't think that we're related Wow. You're wrong either way. You're a hater. Now I'm trying to remember if I'm even remembering this correctly. Holy shit. It's like LaRussell tries to cancel us. Yeah. Jay Lee and Kato on the track trying to cancel us. God damn it. Henry, we've entered this final segment of the podcast. God, get her off of our show at this point before she says something. I'm just kidding, but damn, like I'm loving every bit of this. I felt under attack, bro. Like, you're supposed to be on my team. No, this is hilarious watching you crumble down. I don't understand.

Ben, I understand that it's it's it's not normal to see yellow people. Oh my god! He lives in a very white world with his white family. It's okay. I'm whitewashed. He's very whitewashed. Christ! White people can't be whitewashed. Oh well, that's not how that works. I am. They're just white. Yeah. Just very, very white. And it is a tragedy. But we have entered the final segment of the podcast. This is the rapid fire rampage with Jane Lee. It's a three-part rampage. Three-parter. I will explain them as we go. We're Just gonna start with some short answer questions. Let's get into it. It's a tragedy. Starting with. Jane, what is up? Well, I don't give me the rules to this game. I'm asking what's up. What's up? What's up? The sky. What? Yes, it is. I don't understand the rules and regulations of this game.

That's a terrible start, man. That was a great start. I know we're talking about that. What's going on? Moving on to the next question. That was just the first question. What's up? Anyway. Oh. Jane, what are the three most common signs an artist is not serious? Laziness. Laziness. Oh no. I know it. Here we go. A laziness. I knew. I knew where it was going. There it is. There it is. It's good that you can fix that. I mean, I don't know. Anyways. Not really. Well, not really. Well. Not really. I mean, Jane Lee kick in the ass. Hold on. This is rapid fire, so we go to the next question. We're not gonna stay. Okay, okay, okay. Jane, what is one lie every indie artist has got to stop telling themselves right now? Their face. She's like, there's so many. There's so many. That's what I am like it's like I and the one lie that every indie artist tells to themselves. They need to stop telling themselves today.

I'll do it tomorrow. Oh God. Nice. Laziness is coming right back. It's good. Jane, if you were a car, what would you be? Something Asian? I was about to say it's gotta be Korean made, bro. Is it Hyundai? Like, what is it? Hyundai Sonata. Ooh, okay. Such a good car. Very nice. Class. Jane, you have a thousand dollars. This is Korean. Yeah. You have a thousand dollars to roll out your next single. How would you spend it? Me, myself, or like maybe you're working with an artist, you know, whatever. It depends on the artist. You gotta just, yeah. There's no there's no context. There's there is no, well, there's no context here. Um that would make fire content. Yeah. Fire content. That's what I would do. Put it into the. Especially for the starting out. Into the production. Into the videographer. Into The editing and I would do that. All of it. Yeah. Yeah. All of it.

No ads. She's anti-ads. I'm not anti-ads. Okay. I'm not anti-ads, but I think ads don't do anything until you have motion. Mm-hmm. Yep. So you need to develop some type of motion before you start putting money into ads. Yeah. You can't put fuel on a wet log. You need to put it on fire. Yeah, there you go. Thank you so much. You can you can keep that one for free. Yeah, I like that. I'm gonna take that. For sure. Jane, you've just been appointed supreme leader of the music industry. You have the power to do absolutely anything you want. What is your first order of business? Get rid of all the fucking corrupted people in the industry, period. Just take them out. Take them out. All of them. Like dead or like murder them. Just take them out of the industry. No, not murder them, but like me. I know.

I could tell you. Yeah. Not murder them, but like they need to do something else with their lives. They can't be in the music industry anymore. Put them all in a plane and then the plane crashes. I don't know where you're going with this. I was gonna say take them to a deserted island, but you don't you're trying to bomb the plane. I didn't, I wasn't trying to do anything. I think Ben wants to murder them. It's kind of weird. Anyway. Peaceful guy, go ahead. Last one. You know what? Well, hold on. I want to say this. I want to make it fair. Like and that's and that's something that will never happen. It'll never be fair. It'll never be fair. And so I would have to take take out everybody that you know, it's most of them. Yeah. Just a reset on the whole shit. Let's just start the industry from scratch and see what happens. Yes. It's just Jane Lee and the One More Time podcast.

A bunch of artists. We're the two, we're the two majors. I love it. We're signing 720 deals, both of us. 720 is crazy. Two lifetimes of deals. Yeah, we get your kids. We get everything your kids do. Yeah. Your kid's gonna be a rapper. Well, that's good for us. Last one of the short answer. Jane, what is your favorite curse word? Bitch. That was the short answer. I thought so. That was the short answer. It was off to a rough start with that what's up question, but yeah, there was like some fancy rules. Wait, what's up? What are you supposed to say? Like Harry, it's like a cool way of saying Harry Potter. What's going on? What's going on? Oh you're literally explaining the phrase what? I know. I feel insane. But it's like a game show. So I thought it was like supposed to mean something else, you know? Like nah, just that's the Okay. I messed up on that. one. That was the devious nature of question one. Oh, anyway. Okay. Okay. next part is very simple.

It's called the this or that. I'm gonna give you two choices. You just have to pick one of them. Here we go. Starting with books or podcasts? Books. Books. Yeah. I love you guys. I love you guys, but books. Fair for my brain. Patience or urgency? Patience. Facebook or Twitter? Twitter. Piano ballad or heavy banger. Heavy banger. 10,000 fans or 100 super fans. 100 super fans. Great taste or great timing? Great taste. Singles or projects. Singles. Hot sauce or mayo. Hot sauce. Bad Wi-Fi or no AC. Oh shit. Bad Wi-Fi. Talk to animals or read minds. Already read mine, so talk to animals. And finally become a full-time saxophone player or leave the music industry forever.

Leave the music industry. forever. Oh whoa. That's not where I thought that was gonna go. I don't want to be a Full-time sax player? Yeah. No, no. Okay. Alright, yeah, that's fine. I've lived enough life. I don't think I have to do that. Okay. She can go give tough love in another industry. God, imagine her like the financial sector. Yeah. No, podcasts. Podcast consultants. Okay. Oh, shit. There you go. We can Link with you on that. We'll talk later. Last part is the word association, Jane. I'm gonna say one word. You just have to give me the first word that comes to mind. Oh you're not there, you're not judged on the answers only on speed. Here we go. Okay. Oh, speed? Speed is important here. Not the word you say, just the speed. Okay. Here we go. Starting with music. Love. Hunger. All the time. Meme. Funny. AI. Fuck you. Oh yeah.

YouTube. Cool. Matcha. Ew. Slap. You. Yes. Gold. A lot. Content. Always. Red flag. Whatever you just thought of is the answer. AI. Okay. Green flag. This is not good. I'm not good at there's too many words that go on in my head. Okay. Pick the first one. Green flag, my husband. Label. Pass. That is a word. Delulu. I'm too old. I felt old writing it. Viral. Not as important as you thought. Grammy. Fame.

Tough. Love. Indie. Mama. Let's go. This has been Jane Lee. your favorite and only indie mama. Only one you need. God, if y'all are not already shooting a piece of content and clicking post right now. And if you haven't liked the video and left a comment, subscribe. Come on. This is the kick in the ass. You need it, guys. Comment, subscribe, everybody. Let's go. Comment, Subscribe. Until next time, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Thank you, Jane. Peace, y'all.