The Truth About Making It In Music After 30

I heard it again the other day. They keep saying that music is a young man's game. That's bullshit. It's a myth. I'm sick of hearing it because honestly, in the old music industry, people in their 30s and olders were breaking then. Yes, there were like gatekeepers and guardrails in place. Maybe it was harder. The industry seemed to try and want to hold them back, but like there were still examples of people breaking. And then in today's new music industry, the doors are completely knocked down. Just to throw out some real world examples here. Bill Withers recorded his debut album at 32. Two chains became the two chains that we know and love, dropping his debut studio album that went number one at age 34. Uh-huh. Chris Stapleton breaks through at 37. Jelly Roll wins CMA Best New Artist at 38. Sia breaks through as a performing artist at 38. Guys, Bonnie Raitt, major breakthrough, multiple Grammys, 39 years old. Killer Mike may have already been killer Mike, but he just swept the Grammys a couple years ago at age 48. Holy shit. Let's not talk about Charles motherfucking Bradley. I've been bumping all day. Highly renowned soul singer dropped his debut studio album at 62. Guys.

I can confirm that Charles Bradley was playing when I walked in the studio today. So this is not a lie. I've been on a kick. That's crazy. So all this, yeah, motivated us to just kind of dig deep and figure out all the advantages actually that you guys have. Sure, there's some disadvantages if we're keeping it all the way a buck. Yeah. But there's so many advantages. And we broke it down into six major buckets that we want to share with you guys to maybe motivate and inspire. And we're super excited about them. Number four, super underrated. Stick around for that one. Number six is the one that ties it all together. Yeah. And I guess let's just get into it, man. Yeah, I just I'm so excited about this because it really is said way too often, the whole like young man sport thing. Like I'm re it's really annoying to hear honestly, because it's just not true, first of all. No. And I don't know what people's agendas are for saying it so often, but it's the labels uh signing their young bucks trying to spread misinformation. But yeah, let's get into it. Starting off with advantage number one.

Actually, before we do that, you guys leave a comment. Tell us how old are you? What kind of music are you working on? We want to know who's out there in the community. You know, the oldest artist is getting a merch package. We might send you if you can prove it. We'll send you a prize. Okay, yeah. Someone's gonna be a smart ass. We'll need some type of screenshot verification. But anyway, number one is the distribution advantage. Distribution is how are we getting out there? How are we getting seen? This is probably the one that was the most affected by the old industry versus the new. It's completely changed now. Distribution is free at this point. Yeah. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, I mean, we we live in a world where getting access to potential fans is not hard anymore. No. It's just not, right? Okay, let me take that back. Well, it's hard work, but you don't have to know a guy at a place that knows a guy that had to bribe a guy to take a lunch meeting at the corporate office. Like, no, you have a phone, right? Assumedly, and you have access to the world.

Um, so that's a beautiful thing. And I mean that applies to whether you're a young artist, but it obviously also applies to our older artists. Yes. And so you're you're not at the mercy of any sort of infrastructure anymore. Yeah, which is amazing. Because those people were choosing the younger artists. Yeah. Let's be real. And I mean, that just kind of is right in line with like the industry as a whole. There's more and more independent music being released every year, right? So as an indie artist, again, you can build your own business around your music. Um, there's so many different systems and tools and resources out there for you guys. Um the whole direct-to-consumer model. I mean, we have a whole episode with Curtiss King, absolute banger. We'll definitely put a link right up here to that episode that is prime for the silver surfers, as we were calling them off camera. Oh, God, why'd you tell them? You came up with that. I didn't want them to know. Well, it's on wax now. I love you, silver surfers.

I also am a silver surfer, so that's why I'm allowed to call you guys that. Um, but no, man, I think like in today's music industry, um, really it's just all about getting attention and building trust. That's it. Uh, and having access to the people that you're trying to, you know, get the attention of and and build the trust uh with. Um, and I think that's on you, right? Like that's not an easy task, but it's doable. Um, and that's what I just love for our older artists is that you have the same exact chance as someone who's fucking 16. It doesn't matter, right? You have the same abilities, right? And the same resources at your disposal. It's just really about like how you apply them. And I think we'll get into maybe how you guys actually probably can apply them a little bit better better than some of our younger artist friends, right? It's kind of wild that you started off saying that it was gonna be easy. It's not gonna be easy. But you have a you literally didn't even have a chance before, and yeah, you have a chance. It is up to you.

If you put in the work, you got a really good shot. So the distribution advantage is real. That was number one. Number two is the story advantage. Let's be real. Our music, our identity, our brand, all of it comes down to what your story is as a person at the end of the day, right? Yeah, and mathematically, if you've lived longer, you have more story. There's just more chapters, there's more to pull from. Hopefully, there's more inspiration, right? I mean, it's just that's how numbers work. Yeah, I I feel like, at least for me, again, you know, there's a lot of superficial music out there that maybe sees virality and people can get discouraged by being like, hey, how does this song so popular? How is this artist right now so popular? Check back in in a year or two years and see if that same fucking artist in that same song is even in on anyone's mind anymore, right? Uh, because odds are it's not. So we all know with hit records and timeless music, right? Um, that's where that story and that like human element of it, like that's where that shines.

And to your point, lucky for you guys, you have more options, right? Like you have more experiences to pull from. And so that I think increases your chances to be able to connect on a deeper level with someone, right? Um, because you've lived more life and you've had more shit happen. And inevitably you're gonna have more to pull from, right? Now, again, the challenge is is pulling from it in the correct way and making sure that you the songs that you're making are actually, you know, relatable. Um, but you do have a lot more to pull from, and I think that's beautiful. In a world where some reports say up to 40% of all music uploaded to DSP is is fully AI generated. What? Is that the latest? That's what I've heard. Holy shit. And you know that's only going up from here. Somebody fact check us because I feel like we just say things sometimes. Go ahead. But I'm I'm telling you, I just saw it tomorrow, it's gonna be 50. Half of all music is fully AI generated. Jesus. That's when that story is just, I mean, that's all you got left against these machines at that point. You know what I mean?

And like you said, the deep connections, especially if we're talking about DTC and like going deeper with fans, it is the story that is gonna make like you can get, you know, three tenths of a penny from a stream from a casual fan, but when we're really building these deep relationships, it is the story that brings them in. That's just everything. Yeah, and and your story is inevitably unique, right? It's you people are afraid that they're not unique, yeah. And like maybe at like a 30,000 foot view, you're not right. Like you've had, you know, love and heartbreak and you know, trauma, you've dealt you dealt with addiction, depression, you know, party shit, piped up type of uh, you know, experiences in your life, whatever. Yeah, but like the way you tell the story and um just like your spin on that story, that is unique. There's something cool if you've been working a corporate desk job for 20 years, you can flip that into something. It's the framing, it's the Virgil Abloh, like just position it, you know, like put a cool light behind it and frame it this way. Like any story is unique and can be interesting when it's framed up the right way.

Yeah, don't be discouraged if you're out there working a job that you hate, like there's something beautiful about that. That's the beginning of a great story. So the story advantage, good one. Number two, perfect. Moving on to number three. Like, okay, we're convinced, right? We have a story, it's possible to distribute. How do we get paid, Ben? This is the economics advantage. We're gonna start bringing in this bread, man. I gotta bills to pay, I got a mortgage. I I mean, you know, in the older industry, obviously, you know, you had to get signed to a label, and that was kind of like how people made money being an artist. Um, in today's industry, with DIY, you know, musicians on the rise with direct to consumer, you're able to literally sell your art directly to fans with no middlemen. Um, you can really build a successful business. Like this whole notion of like the artist middle class, it's actually viable today. Yes, and I think a lot of people get really caught up in the vanity metrics. They need the millions of views and the millions of likes and a gold plaque.

If I don't have a million fucking, you know, album sales, I'm a failure. If I'm not touring fucking arenas, I'm a failure. If I'm not Justin Bieber, I'm a failure. Wipe all that shit out of your mind. Like if you are an artist who wants to do music for a living and have a comfortable living, all right. You don't need to be in the top one percent, right? But just make a serious fucking living, pay bills off your music. Like it's it's not, it's not as difficult as it used to be, y'all. Like it is actually possible. There's so many artists doing it that you've never even heard of that you wouldn't even know are doing it because they're not this mainstream on magazine covers doing all the things, they're just quietly like crushing the game and dominating. Yeah, I mean, you really don't need I mean, a thousand super fans, like that whole thing. I mean, people argue on that number, but it's like whatever exact number it is, it's not that many. The Curtiss King, 100 diehards.

I was gonna say someone, someone flipped it on and said, Yeah, some people say you need 10,000 now, but then Curtis went on the other extreme and say, you need a hundred. How deep do your fans go? Yeah, and so I mean, I think just knowing that, knowing that someone like a Curtiss King who does music, you know, professionally, right? Has past 30. Yes, has 30. Great example. Um, the fact that he says a hundred, I mean, that should be so fucking motivating. Yeah, like that whole thousand is now out the window, apparently, and it's even less, right? Um, so that I just think for the economics of it all, like that's incredible. And then let's talk about the average fan of an older artist, is probably gonna be older. These are people that are stickier, these are people that know what they like. Yeah, they're more seasoned, they're more likely to stick with you. If they decide they like you, they're not changing based on the trend, like some of these young bucks out here. Like they decide they like you and your music, they're sticking around. And also they probably have more money, they're probably more stable, have more to spend with you on your merch or your, you know, name your price album or however you're doing it.

Um, these are just better fans to have. Also, you probably have I was about to say that more money. I'm way more bullish on the fact that like if you are, you know, post the age of 30, ideally you've you've clearly been surviving th for 30 years. You're still alive. You're still alive. Okay. So I'm way more excited about the fact that like you most likely actually have some disposable income potentially to invest in your own music career, right? Like a lot of these younger artists, they are starving for real. Like they're out here with student debt and take doubles, and that's about it. Straight up eating ramen every day, trying to make ends meet. Yeah, they don't want to work a real job because again, like they don't have any responsibilities, right? So the fact that you probably have some responsibilities that you've been meeting over the years, right? And you're at a point where you're obviously making money elsewhere. Um, I do think it's beautiful to be able to fund your own music career with your own money. Like, that's a really cool place to be.

Um, versus, you know, having to make decisions, you know, out of like you don't know where the money's at. Yeah, like just I've worked with a ton of younger artists, and like the moves they wanted to make, bro, were so money driven because they didn't have any money. Yeah, right? And like they literally didn't want to work a regular job because of ego and all sorts of other things that get in the way of, you know, some of the younger artists that I've uh had the pleasure of working with. They're really dope, but it's like, bro, if you start making money, if you start making decisions solely based on money, you're fucked. Yeah. You're fucked, man. No, like you can do so much for absolutely free. We've said that before. Like, it is insane. The levels you can, the heights you can reach with zero dollars. But two things can be true. If you have money to invest, this can accelerate the whole process. Like, it's just undeniable. It really can move the needle for you a lot quicker. So that's a benefit. Hey, Henry here.

Sorry to interrupt this podcast, but there is something I have to address. As many of you know here at one more time, we love doing live music reviews. We love hearing the music from our community and providing helpful feedback that is hopefully helping you further your career. But if there's one piece of advice that we are tired of giving, it's that your master is too quiet. We shouldn't have to turn up the volume for your song just to have to turn it back down for the next song. That's not good. But Henry, good mastering engineers are so hard to find and so expensive. Enter DistroKid's newest tool called Mixia. I master music myself. And while I don't think AI mastering will ever replace the quality you get from an experienced human mastering engineer, it's pretty damn good. And if you already distribute through DistroKid, you can now master unlimited tracks using Mixia. And if you don't, we have a link right here. You can sign up for DistroKid with 30% off. Upload unlimited music yearly for an insanely cheap price. Humans perceive louder as better. It's dumb, but it's true. Use Mixia for a clean master, and you won't sound weak on that playlist. Let's get back to the episode.

Number four, I'm super excited about, super underrated. This is the clarity advantage. Let's do our little know thyself. Let's uh peek over to the self-awareness that's hiding up in the top left corner over here every episode. I wonder if our editor actually does have it just in the template. I think he's got to save it. I told him, he's like, might as well just save it. We're bringing it up. You gotta know yourself for anything. And we talk about this all the time. And who knows themselves better than people that have just had more years and more time to learn themselves, right? Yeah, I mean, again, unless you're having a midlife crisis currently. Okay, that throws a little wrench in the and don't know who you are anymore. Sure. The odds that you do have a little bit more understanding and awareness of what makes you you, what you like, what you don't like, right? This goes for taste in your own music, right? Um exactly. The amount of young artists that just pivot and switch, right? Yeah.

Just reinvent themselves and have a new sound every month. Yep. It that's killing you guys. Yeah, like avoid the shiny object syndrome at all costs, right? Like if you cannot act like a fucking squirrel that sees a nut fly from a tree or whatever, like the better off you'll be. And I think that our older artists, you guys have a little bit more stability typically. Again, this isn't meant to generalize, right? But again, like from our perspective, what we've learned from working with older artists and younger artists, you typically have a little bit more figured out, right? You've put in more reps. Yeah. You know, you've done, you've gone through the cycles, you've tested shit, you you know who you are, you know what you like. And this is just gonna make the process of you know, testing out songs, testing out content that much quicker. You're just gonna be able to get through the reps, you're gonna know what you don't like, you know you like this. Just makes the whole thing easier. Yeah, but what I will say, I'll I'll kind of challenge you with this or just warn you that try not to be stuck in your ways, though. So, like a lot of our older artist friends, they can maybe be so stuck in like what they think they need to do and what they like that they're not as open-minded.

So I do want you to try and be a little bit open-minded while still, you know, holding firm to what it is you know you like and what you don't like. Um, but that's just like a kind of a trap that I could see some of our older artist friends falling into is like Do you see that more on the business side or on the music side? I think it could be both, bro. Yeah. The creative side of like not being willing to try new things creatively. Um, and then on the business side, yeah, I think like not being open to maybe some of the like newer tools and technologies that are out there, right? Like this is this isn't just old people don't understand technology argument, right? No, I mean I think I think it's a little bit of a hurdle that we just need to be honest about. Okay. You know, a lot of us didn't grow up on TikTok. You know what I mean? So, like understanding how music is being discovered, right? Um, because even older fans are using these same platforms, bro, to discover music. Older fans aren't discovering music in the same way that they used to discover music.

So we gotta rid ourselves with some of that, like, you know, old school thinking in some ways, right? Um, I'm not saying you gotta do every single thing the exact same way that like a fucking 16 year old artist is doing, uh, because there are gonna be some differences, but I just think being open, you might learn something. Just being open, dude. I mean, there's just like so many examples of God, I feel like every time I'm scrolling TikTok, I see, again, this isn't meant to, you know, be disrespectful, but there's some like older content creator that's just crushing TikTok. You know what I mean? Like they're understanding it better than some, you know, fucking Gen Zers, right? Um, so just that was like something I wanted to call out. I know this is more meant to, you know, share the advantages, but we're keeping it real. Yeah, we just want to keep it real because like I know we fall victim to some of that shit too. It's like being stuck in our ways, not being open to like looking around and kind of just seeing what's happening, um, and not having too much ego either, you know what I mean? Like if we all knew what what was working perfectly, we would have already you wouldn't be listening to this. You know what I mean?

And we wouldn't be talking about it. We'd already, you know, be doing something else. So big facts right there. The clarity advantage, guys. That's huge. Number five, I'm calling this one uh the relationships advantage, man, network, who you know, like you've just had more time to meet people, um, build your network, build trust, build reputation with people. When you're 20 years old, you know, you could only have possibly known someone for what 20 years, I guess, if you count like knowing someone as an infant, but like you're not gonna have, you know, some of our 30, 40, 50 year olds like might have relationships that go back 30 years. I mean, these are people that you can trust with your life, and you just had time to meet people in different areas, and it's we all know it's you know, it is what you know, but it's definitely still who you know. I think it's both Yeah. At the end of the day. I I think you need to know enough to be dangerous with everything that you're doing in your career, but I do think that like spending the time, and this is something we we know is important for our business, right? It's like we can't just have someone on the podcast and then not yeah, and not maintain a relationship with them if we ever want to help them.

So like if we can be of service to them, that's obviously like I had a call today where I didn't want to just be like asking for something. I offered up like, yo, here's something I think that could help you. Right. And so I think when you have more years in life, you just have more chances to do that. Right. Um, and so I think the network that you can build is so important. You just the issue that people uh take with it, I think, and why they don't invest as much time in it. And it is hard even for us to like make sure we're investing enough time into it. There's no clear ROI. It's not you don't know very quantifiable. You don't know what your network is gonna bring you. So much in winning in music is not quantifiable. I know. And it's frustrating. I know. So much of it is like you just gotta believe, you gotta just know it's working. Yeah, but that's also just some human shit. I mean, maybe I'm on like my woo-woo shit recently, but it's like dude, you are, but it's okay. But it's like, dude, it's some facts. How do you expect anything good to come to you if you're not like trying to connect with other people and like trying to help them? It's like we're all in this shit together, bro.

I mean, I literally had a a scenario where a peer of ours in like kind of the podcast music education space. Um, you know, I wanted to try and get connected with like a brand partner that they've worked with, and he very bluntly asked if I could connect in with our brand, him with our brand, you know, partner. And it was like, of course, you know, because it's the right thing to do. And so those types of things, bro, you're you're just gonna increase you're not you're going to, your chances are increased by being older. So I just think you need to try and like figure out ways these are all again, we're talking about advantages. You need to try and use these to your advantage. That's the whole point of this episode. So and that interaction was like, you know, the the first of its kind. Imagine like five years from now, 10 years from now, yes, we've been swapping resources with other podcasts, and you know, if any, then it's at the point, like you could ask them for anything, and then immediately, you know, they're of course I got you. Like this, we've known each other for 10 years, doing good business with each other. Like, that's just rare.

Yeah. That's super beneficial. Oh, I mean, I'm telling you for a fact. People that we've had on this podcast that are like label executives, whatever, the most amount of opportunities that have come their way for their artists that are signed to their label is due to relationships. So that just shows how big this advantage can work can work for you, to be honest. Um, so just don't ignore it, man. It's real easy to get caught up in just your own shit and not be focused on like the network that you're building. But I'm I'm telling you, y'all, like it still is a lot of, it's not just who you know, it's like just being top of mind for people, bro. Like when they have something come across their their uh, you know, desk, so to speak, right? As far as an opportunity goes, you need to be someone that they fucking think of. And that only comes with like the you know, relationships that you can build and maintain. And so this isn't just like happenstance, you gotta put a little work into this, but it is an advantage that you have over younger artists that just haven't built any relationships yet because they're new to this shit. You know what I mean?

We recently like made a whole spreadsheet of tasks that we can like. I hate that spreadsheet. So we can hyper optimize like how we're spending our hours, you know, because they're limited, just like they are for lots of you guys, especially older artists that have a lot going on. And uh, you're damn sure you're damn skippy. That like why did I hear you say damn skippy before you said it? I said it because I could tell you were thinking Oh my god, it sucks, dude. Brand relationship management, customer relationship management, just hitting up uh our folks, our like real tasks that we're making sure to cover. And for y'all, you know, it's it's your fans, your biggest fans. It's you know, producers, it's other artists you might want to work with, it's content creators, influencers, it's all these people, man. It's relationship is it's everything. So, and you have an advantage, so lean into it. That's number five. Absolutely. Last advantage, this is the one that ties it all together, Ben. None of these make sense. Full circle. If you aren't crushing this one, yeah, I'm calling it the operations advantage. Let's get this shit operating.

And I mean, you kind of already alluded to it, bro, with the task list. I did. I thought that was like how you were segueing it. Total accident. You gotta fucking nail it in, bro. Shout out to you. Because honestly, like, yo, let's be let's be serious. You have other shit going on. This is we let's be real. You have a lot you probably deal with a family, yeah, kids, mortgage, yes, uh, possibly a job, you know, real job you're doing. Your own parents that whose health is declining, you gotta take care of them. There's a lot of shit going on, bro. So, like you have to be laser fucking focused, man. Operations has to be your just secret weapon. Like, you need to be working so much smarter than these younger artists, and that is what can unlock a ton of opportunity for you and growth to be. And it probably sounds like a disadvantage up to this point, but why I think it is an advantage because all those other things you guys got going on, subconsciously or consciously, like you have figured out a way to make shit work. You're better with you know, budgeting, with planning, with time management.

These are all things that you are, as you grow and older, you're forced to learn how to do better. Yeah, and these are things that are mandatory for a successful music career. So, whether you've even realized or not, like you are better at this shit than you used to be, and when you can start applying it to your music career, you'll realize like how consistent you can be. When you're young, maybe you can just wake up every day and be motivated and just be hungry to go and get it. But motivation can be fleeting. Yeah. It's not always there. So when you have systems in place, when you know that your hours are budgeted to the most important things that are gonna move the needle for you, like the whole point that we made that spreadsheet, you're just gonna be in a much better place. You don't have to be motivated every day because you know you're checking box A, box B, box C. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's also like you've clearly been working another job, you know, if you're still trying to like make music your full-time thing, you've been exposed to other businesses. And I think like that's an advantage too, bro.

Like operationally, sure, you've seen how other you guys are businesses. Like I hate hearing that sometimes because it just feels like fucking cringe, like artists are the CEO of their own business. But like it's fucking true. So true. It is so true. And I think you just need to realize like you've been, you know, exposed over the years to other businesses and how they operate, right? And I'm telling you, there's skills there. There's there's things to be learned from like if you just worked at a restaurant or if you worked at like a fucking accounting firm, I don't give a fuck what you've done, but like those businesses are successfully paying you a paycheck. So they're doing something to operate, you know, as as an actual company. Um, so you can probably like take some little like tricks and tips that you've you know maybe not even thought about um and apply them to your own artist business, right? Um, to be again operationally excellent, like this is what this advantage is all about. It's like working more efficiently, like optimizing, right? We don't have time for the fluff in our 30s and 40s.

No, we just don't. No, so so just be aware of that and make that be how you can compete more effectively, you know what I mean? Like you can do this better and more efficiently than some of our younger artist friends. Just again, by all the things that we listed. Man, if you guys made it this far, you clearly have a passion for music. And me and Ben just genuinely hope that you stop dwelling on some of the disadvantages you might have as an older artist, whatever that means. Old hit ass, Silver Surfer S. Not helping at all. Grandpa. And you start leaning the fuck into your advantages because you have more of them than you realize.