The Hitmaking Mindset Behind 18 Hot 100 #1s ft. Sean Garrett “The Pen”

The art of hit making versus songwriting. It's two different things. There's people that write songs. Mm-hmm. There's people that make hits. Today on the One More Time Podcast, we were absolutely blessed to sit down with Sean Garrett, aka the pen, who sits squarely in category number two. Sean is credited with 18 Hot 100 number one singles in only seven years time. Plus, Billboard recently ranked him the number 23 songwriter of the 21st century, ahead of guys like Jay-Z and Kanye West. Anytime you're going into a session, are you trying to walk out of there with a hit? Absolutely. If someone claims that they don't want to have a hit, I just think they're lying. Absolute bullshit. Are you kidding me? You don't want to smash. Sierra's goodies, Beyonce's check on it, Chris Brown's run it, Fergie's London Bridge, Nelly's Grills. And he didn't just happen to be in the room while these were being made. Some of them he's penning word for word. Just listen to Sean's original demo for Usher's Yeah. This episode is a masterclass of the philosophies and the strategies that go into hit making.

Not songwriting, hit making. You'll find answers to questions like, what turns a great song into a hit song? They're not filled up harmonically. They're missing certain dynamics. They're missing transitions. They're missing vocal stacks. Why every hit song has a team of specialists behind it, executing what they do best instead of a couple people spreading themselves too thin. Everybody thinks they can do everything, bro. I could probably put this whole glass up if I studied and went to home depot. But if I call the specialist, be up in a motherfucking day. And the number one factor Sean credits for all of his hits and trigger warning, it's gonna scare a lot of you bedroom producers and songwriters out there. Actually going outside and interacting with human beings. I think this is important to dial in to people. But at the end of the day, the end result is the human being. Talk to people. That's the answer. Yeah. Talk to people. Sean's approach to the art of hit making isn't grounded in gimmicky tricks and formulas. It's about translating real people and real life into undeniable records.

And the best part is you don't need a label or a budget to get started. All you gotta do is like this video, subscribe to the channel, watch this episode all the way through while taking notes, then walk over to your front door, turn the handle, and make the first step. When you go outside it's competition, it's cool when you're at the house. Walk around with your mother in your pajamas and do whatever you want to do. Well, when you go outside, you're gonna have to put some clothes on. One more time. And we do it one more time. One more time. Spin it, rock. Spin it, boom. Spin it, boom. Spin it, boom. Hit it, baby. One more time. Henry, we have Sean Garrett the Pin on the podcast. Holy shit! The Pen is here! We did it! Right now, we've peaked. Wait! Oh my god! Look at us. This might be our last episode. Holy mackerel with a bang, baby. Oh my god, seriously, appreciate you coming on the podcast. Shout out Rush D for setting this up with us. Big rush. In the building. But yeah, so you know, for someone who has 56 number one records, 18 hit Billboard Hot 100 number ones, we think you know a thing or two about hit records. Yeah.

Okay. So, you know, not only your experience, obviously with the songs that you worked on, but you clearly are just a consumer of music as a whole. What do all hit records have in common? Like, what's the common thread? What do hit records have in common? Um, I think hit records, man, definitely have relativity. Me personally, I I think this is important to dial in to people, right? I don't know, you know, the whole AI shit and all of these other things are available. But at the end of the day, the end result is the fucking human being. You know what I'm saying? If you're human, that's the landing, that's where we're landing. You know what I'm saying? AI is just an idea to me, right? It's no disrespect to it. It's just the landing spot is human beings. Do you do anything to like stay tapped in with humans, like actively? Do you how do you achieve the relativity, the relatability? I fucking love the show. Hey, yeah, talk to people. Yeah.

That's that's the answer. Yeah. Talk to people. You know, I like to talk to people. I'm a very commutative type of uh person who um enjoys the idea of talking to people and understanding why a person says no versus why a person says yes. I like to write love songs sometimes. But I really more like I like to make people dance. Yeah, yeah. The unreleased song. Yeah, that one might have got a sneak. Definitely going to get some people dancing. It's a dancer. You're getting, you're actually getting the the reality of people, right? You know, understanding the balance of people, right? And their understanding of like what life means to them. I take a conversation and I can turn a love hurt situation and put it into a dance song. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, Shorty got down low and said come and get me. I got so caught up, I forgot she told me. Her and my girl used to be the best of homies. Next thing I knew, she was all up on me screaming.

Yeah. I've never heard someone just say the lyrics to yeah, that was like we talked about like being able to say your lyrics and that if you can say it and it sounds cool in regular conversation, there's a better chance of translation. You know what I'm saying? It's like loosening up my buttons, uh, but you be fronting, saying what you gonna do to me, uh-huh, but I need my money to lose. and I can't front. by the way, congratulations on one billion on the music video. Amen. Billion. Crazy hey guys, that was a billion. That was a B. B. B. It was not no motherfucking M. No. Okay. Excuse me. No. When the H. That was a B. So outside of obviously the, you know, the relativity, the relatability, you know, the human to human uh element of hit songs, what what else? Like, can you manufacture hits? Like, is there some science to it from like a you know BPM or certain melodies or ABA, like rhyme schemes? No.

No. You're asking me. I'm asking you the pen. I'm not asking Henry. No, no. Yeah, I mean, now listen, someone in a basement, if they wanted to theoretically put together an idea of something, of course, they can try. Right. But feeling is so important. You know what I'm saying? Uh I went out to Africa and I wanted to go see the people. I wanted to go touch the land. I wanted to understand the feeling. And I learned so much more than what I went to search for. What I searched for was the feeling of what I would feel. Because everyone can give you their perspective. You know, perspective is everything, I think. You know, everyone has this idea of like what they think makes sense to them versus how it makes sense to everyone else. And as a producer and a creative, you know, our job is to supply the land. And so to supply the land, you must do your research so you can try to make the best product possible.

And you know, I I really enjoyed that experience. It was a it was an amazing experience in reference to understanding what's the future. And what I learned was Melody is still king, but intellect is important too. And intellect is not necessarily a uh educated thing. It's an idea, it's a perspective, it's a perspective, right? And it comes in combination with different people, right? And people that look like me and act like me are not the people that I'm interested in collaborating with all the time. I'm really interested in creating with people who don't look like me and who don't act like me. So I can figure out something special about something even more special about people. Yeah, I've tried to find the beauty in like learning from every single person.

Like someone has something to give you, right? It's like an interaction with anybody can teach you something, can make you feel something, whatever. Man, I I I I think that is so amazing because like people, people are very interesting, you know. And you know, I think to myself, it's like if the end result is like people, then why not talk to people? It's not that deep, you know. Uh, people make shit more complicated than it's really gotta be. How do you look at things? What do you think about this? What do you think about that? And they'll tell you more shit than you even want to know. We've gotten to the place, I feel like in in our world that we're like, um people are so jealous that they've forgotten it, like human connectability is like real. Like you just need to connect the people. Like I'm curious, like on the actual songwriting side, if you could give an example of how like maybe you have a line that you've written that you could maybe change or just tweak to relate maybe two people more. Is there like an example you could think of that keeping you know, people in mind, how that can directly apply to like a songwriting scenario?

Like what is a line that can apply to people? You know, you pick your chance, you pick your you pick your times, you pick your moments, um of like just creating a great song or making a great point, right? And some of the songs, you know, Loving you, loving you, loving you, When I'm loving you, loving. Why would you wanna break up? I mean, that's like nursery rhyme, but it's like common sense to everyone. Like, if I'm loving you right, if I care for you, if I think about you, why would you want to break up? On the flip side, the girls is like, yeah, but you, you know, you be like, you don't, you know. It's kind of uh perspective, right? Yeah, and I think that um that relates to so many different people. We're not saying so much. Yeah, you know, you don't have to be that's not a complicated sort of scenario. Yeah, I hope that answers your question.

It did. That was a fire example. Yeah, I mean, just because, you know, obviously, we had T Ron on the podcast. Now we're having you on the podcast. Both of you all. My boy T-Ron. Yeah. Both of you. We're gonna put a link to his episode right up here, but I'm going to check that out. T-Ron. Yeah, but both of you seem to have that like just interest in people and the ability to obviously just strike up a conversation immediately. That, you know, as soon as you walked in the door, you know, we were just right to it. Just chatting like we've known each other for a while. And that was amazing. It's beautiful. It's just the way life is, man. It's just like, man, you know, it's just like if you people, people are attracted to great people attracted great people. You know what I'm saying? Love is attractive. It's such a love of like talking to people. Because you know, you can write a sad song, uh, a bad song, uh, a love song, a great song, a fast song, a dance song, a party song. All based on the conversation. And the art of hit making versus songwriting. It's two different things.

Okay, break that down. Okay. There's people that write songs. Okay. There's people that make hits. Okay. Keep going. Okay. Might have gave us a YouTube title there. Okay. The art of hit making. So the idea of like making hits are considering. It's it's all consideration. Right. Hope I'm not going over nobody's heads because it's like, what the fuck is Sean talking about? They can rewind this. You know. You can rewind it and listen to it over and over again. You have to consider what you're investing your time in. Consider what the situation is. Consider all the elements that have something to do with the end result to your decision of what you invested your time in doing. Meaning, if I write a song, I'm going to work with an artist that makes sense for me to spend my time on working on. Because the end result is I want this artist to have a hit song. I want the label to make their money back. I want to have a hit song. And I want the world to be happy.

That's the idea. So is it safe to say that anytime you're going into a session, are you trying to walk out of there with a hit? Absolutely. Okay. See, that's why. I just think some of y'all need to just be okay with that being the reality. Because there's some. All this extra shit. These people be talking, hey, I'm a creative, and you know, I just like to write. The fuck? You got to be kidding me, bro. Who the fuck got time? If that's your goal, that's cool. But if you want hits, I think you probably gotta be going in and trying to make hits. And you know, if that's your goal, yeah, I'm so cool with that too. Because it takes time. You know, everybody, you know, when I knew in first grade, I didn't know in third grade. You know what I'm saying? I knew a lot more in third grade than I knew in first grade. Yeah, I I just think for me, if someone claims that they don't want to have a hit, I just think they're lying to be Absolute bullshit. I remember this is yo, this is the like this is the most hilarious thing of my like you don't want the biggest song in your subgenre thing. I just want to create, I just want to.

Are you fucking kidding me? You don't want to smash. Yeah. So like when people say I just want if one person, if I could just change one person's life, that's just cat. I I mean, I don't I don't. bullshit. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't hate the idea of being, you know, like wanting to change people's lives and impact people. But if you want to change one, why wouldn't you want to change a billion? Or why wouldn't you want to change a million? Or whatever. It's like being an artist and saying you don't want to be seen. Yeah. The fuck? And by the way, everybody's not a songwriter. Okay. I don't know what. You gotta press on that shit. But everybody do not motherfucking write songs, bro. People, just because you got a voice, that don't mean you can write no songs. Like I'm I'm I'm meaning, like, that don't mean you can write hits. You know what I'm saying? It's a it's a technique, it's a it's a gift, you know what I'm saying? And um, but shout out to all the people who are striving to do that.

I want, you know, I want to encourage that. I want to um love on that. Um, but you know, know your know your worth, know your love, know your passion, and stay with it, you know. Give everything you can give to your art and uh appreciate everything that's given to you, every opportunity, um, every moment that you can have to share something with someone. I think it's important. How much of that do you think you're born with versus you can actually learn and develop and get better? Hmm. In time. They're kind of neck and neck. Because my mom used to always say, you learn a lot, you live long enough. Uh-huh. Right. Um, the great thing about being a creative, is knowing that all possibilities are possible, right? And really believe in that shit, you know.

Like I really believe in the impossible. I may not look like it, but I really do believe in the impossible. You know what I mean? I I I do really feel like I'm from like Jupiter. You've accomplished the impossible already. So I was, I was very, I was very fortunate though. You know, it wasn't just, it wasn't just me. It was really the elements, the God, man. Like God, timing, you know. You know, sometimes I had to be subtle. Sometimes I had to be a monster. You know what I mean? I had to fucking turn up and say, hey, no, I believe in this shit. Fuck what y'all talking about. Yeah, like what's an example of that? Well, there were people that there were people, okay, LA Reid, I'm on the fence with this because he's a believer in music, right? He believed in me because he signed me uh at his publishing company. He believed in this song, but he also had a plan, right?

And he had a strategy. And you know when they roll out their plans and some shit comes in outside the plan, it'd be like fucking up the plan. You know what I'm saying? So you know what I'm saying. And don't fuck up LA's plan, bro. So I kind of just fucked up the plan. Me and Lil Jon. you know, shout out to Lil Jon, man, you know what I'm saying? I gotta, you know, I I feel like sometimes I don't give my brother Lil Jon, enough credit, man, for being like I love Lil Jon, man. And um you know it's a tough day, you know, um celebrating Lil Jon's son's life. Yeah. But I love him man and and you know he inspired me. He really did man. I'm from Atlanta I'm from the SWATs I'm from Southwest uh Atlanta, you know what I'm saying? And um, you know, I don't sound like it all the time, you know what I'm saying, until you fuck around to find out. You know what I'm saying?

You know, but growing up around the world, man, you know, you you sometimes get a chance to see yourself, you know. It's almost like a reflection. Like you can see yourself from afar. To see yourself from afar is a very big benefit. Cause you like, I didn't even know that I looked like that. You know what I'm saying? Till I saw and I realized I look like that. You know what I'm saying? So I would say that like LA, he gave me a shot though. He did he did all the things to like, oh, I'm gonna let you do this shit. I don't know if this shit really is what it is. No, there's like a competitive kind of nature in the songwriting world, right? No, no. It's a competitive market in hit making. Okay, let's I just want to draw the line of hit making. Yeah, don't ever disrespect the pen with your songwriting. bullshit. Don't do that. We're talking about making it bro. It's crazy. Yes, okay. Hit making is a listen, bro. However, they want to break it down.

I'm I'm just like, whoever got it going on right now, tell me how many times, how many, how many weeks you were at number one? How many? What I don't give a fuck who you are. I don't give a fuck if you're Mars from Mars, whoever. I'm not saying I'm the best, but I like to compete. So it all these people in the stands, they got, oh, what are you doing now? Holding up them rings. So take us through like your your first session playbook, right? Russ. Rings. Can our editor put rings on all of his fingers? I better have big diamonds on this big diamonds. We got you. Big diamonds. Y'all can take that and y'all can hold that one. Yeah. Big diamonds. Can we put that on the soundboard for now? It's going on the soundboard. Yeah. Um, but no, so so you know, kind of walk us through like the first session playbook, right? Because I know you know, T Ron kind of walked through how he approaches a session with you know a new artist that he's working with, right?

So, you know, they bring Sean Garrett and they bring in the heavy hitter to make the hits, Henry. What what do we do? Do you sit down and immediately start sharing ideas? You playing demos, you start writing, you're just having a conversation. What what do you do? It's all it's all a different, it's all a different plan, different situation with every different artist. Cause you know, you know what's funny? It's like you got some people that work with artists, bro. They fuck the play up. How so? They fuck up the number one. It might be a manager, it might be somebody that's just like, hey, I think we should, you know, we don't need we can do this ourselves. Okay. Oh, fucking gay. We're here to help. You know, people think that we're like, oh, I mean, we're no, we're specialists. Like, we really, you know, I could probably put this whole glass up on this wall if I fucking studied and went to um Home Depot and studied.

I thought he was gonna say something way more profound than Home Depot. I probably could've put this shit together if I'd have probably, you know what I mean? It'd probably take me three, four months. to do this shit. Yeah, but if I call a specialist, shit be up in a motherfucking day. You know what I'm saying? Everybody thinks they can do everything, bro. And it's just craziness. It's just like Is it ego? Is it greed? What is it? You know what? The biggest question I always get. People like, why do people that have hits with you? Why the fuck they don't come back to the house? Yeah. Over and over. I don't know. Like, I mean, there's some, you know, you build friendships, you build relationships, try to make hits with people. You try to build relationships, try to be nice to them. I don't fucking know, man. I don't know. I just like, I'm like, I landed myself. I landed me. You know what I'm saying? I ain't fucking had to do that.

It couldn't have been you. It could have been another motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? Straight up. And people just are just like weird. Like, I don't know. So it's just like, at some point you should be like, man, you know what? Let me go do some shit with let me let me go surf. I go surfing and shit for shit, man. And I might fuck around and find some other shit to do. Have you been doing that a lot lately? Looking for like new artists? Yeah, man. Absolutely, man. Like, you know, I'm always excited about working with new artists. You know, I was a new artist at a time. Chris Brown was a new artist. Now he's the biggest RB artist in the world. I'm flying around. You know who the fuck he's flying around with? It's insane. Them super bombs. I hate to interrupt this episode, but guys, I got one thing on the mind right now, and it's data. I can't stop thinking about it. All the artists in 2024 are winning because of data. They know who their fans are. They have access to their fans. Do you?

Spotify's not telling you who your fans are. Apple Music ain't telling you who your fans are. But our friends over at DistroKid created a feature called HyperFollow. Every single release, you can set up a pre-save campaign with a HyperFollow and get access to every single fan's email address. Now you can let them know when you have a show coming up, when you're dropping exclusive merch, when you're going live. And without the data, you're just bound by the algorithms of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. No more relying on those platforms. We're going straight to our fans. DistroKid is the best DIY distributor. You can upload unlimited music for a ridiculously low rate. And you're gonna have access to features like HyperFollow. OMTdistro.com, You're gonna get 30% off when you sign up for DistroKid, and you can start collecting your fans' data today. Henry, let's get back into it. I feel like there's still a gap, at least in my mind, that exists as far as like how songwriters are hit makers included. Careful. But I'm just I'm I'm lumping this in generally speaking, and you'll see why, right? But I do think that you know there's still a gap as far as like how songwriters are perceived, how they're treated, how the business of being a songwriter is handled.

What what kind of steps do you think we need to take to make sure that songwriters and hit makers are, you know, I guess better taken care of or get what they deserve, or like are, you know, there's not a gap in the way that they're kind of treated in the music business. It's fucked up. Yeah. So speak on it a little bit. Okay, first of all, take care of the fuel. Take care of the fuel. The fuel is the people with ideas, love, and passion for the art. Right. Take care of them. And it's it's it should be respectful, you know. I mean, the people who are not taking care of, the people who need to be taken care of? They know who they are, you know. It's not fair, man. It's not fair. It's not fair to be in a studio, man, for eight hours, man, nine hours, man, working on a song and be the last person to get paid. That's bullshit. Respect the ideas. Why not pay? You're paying all these other people.

You know what's weird to me? You would rather pay the building that you house your company in, rent higher than a motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? We know that. Yeah. You rather rather pay all these other techs to do this and that and research. Just pay the creatives, man. All this bullshit. It's bullshit, man. And I don't understand it. Like, I I mean, I I was at you guys had some questions for me. I had a question for y'all. Okay. What the fuck is going on? That's what we spend our whole podcast trying to figure out, Sean. We don't have that answer. I think Sean. I know you guys have some questions for me, but I have some motherfucking questions for y'all. I want to know what the fuck is going on. Yeah. Like, what is going on? Like, this shit is crazy.

You pay all the other motherfuckers besides the motherfuckers who make the shit. Make the products. Make the motherfuckers. They give everyone else jobs. Like, what is going on? So are we talking like advances should be paid in your mind? Like, what are some actual practical solutions to this problem in your mind? Publishing. I don't necessarily know about, like, it's not necessarily particularly publishing. You own your publishing because it's your shit you do. It's your intellectual property. Sure. You should. That's automatic. Yeah. My question is: if you're trying to build a company off somebody else's work, why the fuck wouldn't you be fair? And say, hey, bro, own your motherfucking effort, I'm gonna give you 75% of what you do, period. Can I just get 25? Okay, that makes a little bit more sense. But to try to take 50 or to try to take 80 and get me 20? No way.

I love it, man. He's making the hits, man. I know, I know. Um, so all right, what's a hit record that you wish you wrote and why? Hmm. There's so many. well, my respect for the game is like I admire everybody's hit records, you know. Um, because it makes me feel even more excited and fascinated with the game when I see something that happens that I didn't do. Yeah. So it inspires me, you know. Yeah. Um, I love Kehlani's uh new record, uh Fold It. I really like that song a lot. What do you like about it? It's so real. It's such a real RB song. And when I say RB, I don't mean like to typecast it. It's just like it's a it's like me being a uh African American man, uh an African American woman will definitely tell you, come pick up your motherfucking clothes. I had the motherfuckers folded.

They are at the motherfucking door. I can relate to that. You've had it happen. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's what I like about the song, because it it actually made so much sense. And like it was a relative, it was like reality, but at the same time, it was like truth. Yeah. Right. I really like that song, man. That that's that's probably one of my favorite songs. I like this artist, uh, Jay Don. Mm-hmm. I've been working on and working with. I think he's probably one of the most fascinating younger artists that I've seen in a long time. Sabrina Carpenter. Really like our songs. Those songs are pretty interesting. And yeah, can we expect any any Sean Garrett Sabrina shit on the way? Man, you know what's so cool? It's like you go through these moments, man, of just like connecting the dots. You know, um, I don't know.

I hope, I hope so. Yeah, when the Sabrina uh Sean Garrett record comes out. One more time podcast gets 1%. Yeah. Okay. We just talked about Yeah, I know. See? Jesus Christ, better. This is the problem. Literally, you're the problem. Okay. You're the fucking problem. I don't know if that was AI or you. I thought I was looking out. No, you weren't looking out. You were actually doing the opposite of looking out. No, Henry, that's not looking out. That's fucking taking percentages. Literally. Okay, right. You didn't write anything. Okay. That's true. You were a part of the conversation. Doesn't mean take away. Oh, man. Subtraction, add. Two different things. Absolutely. Addition, subtraction. Learning at first grade. I'm learning right now. This is growth. I'm experiencing growth. I'm just telling you, Henry You can't do that. Okay? That's called interpolation. So, all right, so we kind of touched on like the fact that, you know, every first session with a you know different artists is kind of unique to its own self, right? You know, I want to clarify this.

Okay. It's important that the people, the hands, the handlers, and all those, they need to understand what makes their artists better. Energy is different. Like energy is life, you know. Energy changes the room. It's a fact, right? And you got these people trying to manipulate the scenario, put them with the people we we we, like. Listen, bro, do you want to smash or not? Like, seriously. Like, it's bullshit. It's so many people stopping people from really being successful. It's hilarious. So are we talking like ARs, managers? Who are we talking about right now? I don't know. I'm just saying Whoever those people are, they know identify yourself. Raise your hand. What I will say artists need help. When you look at Mariah Carey, she had a team. When you look at Mary J.

Blige, she had a team. Britney Spears had a team. Justin Timberlake, team. All these people got teams, man. They need helpers. They need people who do specific things. All people need specialists. Specialists, bro. They understand their specific point of view to help you achieve your highest goal. Because even the top of the top, I mean, you look at like professional golfers who are just incredible. They all have swing coaches. They all swing coaches, even. People that are still helping them. These swing coaches haven't won 10 masters titles or whatever, like US Open championships, but yet they still have them. And there are certain people like myself. You know, I got two jobs: helping people and helping myself. Because sometimes stepping out yourself and seeing yourself in retrospect makes more sense than anything to us. The only time you hurt yourself is when you focus on yourself too much to the point where you just think it's about what the fuck you think, you think, what I think. I think this, I think that, what I think, what I think.

And when shit go wrong, you're like, okay, what do I think? And ain't nobody there to tell you what the fuck you think, because you do all the thinking. Yeah. I I just love the idea that music is such a team sport. It is, man. You know? Um, and I think it's beautiful. You know, you look at like Sabrina, you know, for example, Amy Allen's written a fucked on her records, I'm pretty sure, right? And so for you, you've also had like consistent collaborators over the years. And I mean, there's gotta be nothing better than like when that chemistry is is hitting. When me and Usher are in uh in the room, generally it's gonna be fire. Yeah, there's an excitement about that, you know. If I was able to give a little bit of myself to someone and collaborate with them, and they it changes their trajectory, like I'm excited about that, you know. I'm excited about just because you only, you know, it's like a job.

It's like, you know, put on my cape, I go save the world, and I come back home. I like that. I like being Batman. You know what I'm saying? I like it. I fucking like it. I I get a kick out of it. So when it comes to actually being in a you know, in a studio session, right? Like, what are some just you know, for our audience out there. What are some studio like just no-nos, right? Like for someone who's maybe not been in a ton of sessions, what what can like just really kill the session, right? What should everyone stop doing immediately? I like this question. Person coming in, doing too fucking much. Stop talking. You know what I mean? When the gang's in there and it's time for the work, just all of the bullshit, let it go. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, man. I I'm but I'm pretty chill, man. I don't really, I don't really be tripping, man. I just like to be easy. I just want people to be happy and excited and win.

How much is your role typically like pre-defined before you even show up? Like, you know, is it typically you know that you're coming in to produce versus songwrite? You know what I mean? Like, is it I've never sung right in my life. Okay, so it's all production at this point. It's producer. Yeah. It's producer. You know what I mean? It ain't production, it's producer. Producer. Meaning, like, and people that don't understand that don't understand that until they understand that. You know what I'm saying? Because I got some friends that are they swing from vine to vine. You know what I'm saying? They're they're very amazing. Like, you know, you gotta produce a song. You gotta produce a smash, bro. All that motherfucker, like, you have to produce a smash. Like the label gotta say, I don't know. I think it's something great. Let me call you back. Unless you know what you got. Yeah.

Yo, explain the role of a producer to my mom who knows nothing about anything when it comes to her name's Joyce. Hi, Joyce. Oh, Mama Joyce. Wish you okay, Sean. Mama Joyce um producer is a person that makes them them records that makes you just dance around the house while you are cooking. You know what I'm saying? You're preparing the dish and you're having fun. You excited. You dancing. You, you know what I mean? You just, you know what I mean? Mama Joyce. What's up? You know what I'm saying? That's what producing hits for is for me, you know. But what I'm gonna say is, I'm definitely gonna have a dance. Okay. All right. I like that. I like that. Um, all right. So I feel like I I definitely want to get some um, you know, questions more for like the indie artists that we have in the community, obviously, right? So, what's something that you hear a lot of, I'm sure, you know, newer artists send you demos, send you music, et cetera.

Um, what are like three things that you think in like a lot of indie artists could do to just level up their songs as a whole? Are there some consistent things that you constantly kind of are giving feedback on? I think what some of the indie artists can pay attention to is like just doing your research. Yeah. A lot of people have great songs that can have potential to be great songs, but they they're not filled up harmonically. Um, they're missing certain dynamics, they're missing transitions, they're missing vocal stacks in places that anybody that's common to the ear of like listening to dope ass music, you know, you'd be like, this is a miss. Why? Ah, It's like a flat tire over here, right? You could go online and listen to records that that are in your genre where this is Study the hits. Study the fucking hits.

Yeah. If you want to hit, it's it's not that deep. It's unbelievable though, how many artists don't. Yeah. They have all of this dialogue that's it like we didn't have none of that shit. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Listen to some motherfucking records. If you do music, it's like a uh high schooler trying to play ball, man, and never watch any basketball games. Yeah. You know, all of the uh the indie um artists, man. I love y'all. You know what I'm saying? Just you know, because y'all are in the gang now. You know what I'm saying? You guys are a part of like the same shit I'm a part of. Like, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know I was gonna become Sean Garrett, man. You know, I didn't really have it all figured out. I just had passion about it. I just love what the fuck I was doing. And I wasn't gonna let nobody disrespect my passion. It wasn't disrespect my music. You can say whatever you want to say about my music, but don't disrespect my passion. Meaning, like, I love this shit, bro. So whether you like it or not, I'm gonna keep going.

So if if Sean Garrett was starting out in the music business today, right? Because when you started, obviously things were looked a lot different from just how this shit all works. What would your plan be? Actually, shit was worse. Okay, well, you know, I mean, they got the cheat code now. I'm just telling you, bro, it's all online. They got all the shit written out, it's printed out. You can Google everything. Like, come on, bro. All right, so yeah, like what are you working on right now, currently? So I'm working on um, of course, Rihanna. You know what I'm saying? Okay, big Rihanna. Big Riri. We've heard of her. The largest. Yeah. Have you heard of her? Yeah, yeah. Once or twice. Yeah. So, like, when you're working with someone like Rihanna, right? Um, obviously, you know, you have other songs, you know, with her from the past, right? Yeah, and so, like, do you just already know? Have you already like channeled Rihanna? And so now it's just like putting yourself back in that zone, or like walk me through. It's like a new, it's like a new season.

Okay, new season. New season. Okay. You know what I'm saying? And best song gonna win. Yeah. I look at shit like this the song business. You know what I'm saying? So if I'm a song writer, hit maker, I gotta make, you know, I gotta make the best uh best of the best. Yeah, and and so do you do you know what she's looking for? Like by either speaking with her, the label, how do you know what to work on? And what season we're in, right? When you become a vet, you know what I'm saying? You you you you definitely get those uh those uh emails, those courtesies, yeah, yeah. Courtesy emails, you know what I'm saying? Um the thing about the courtesy emails is that you just gotta make sense of them, right? And how much do you pay attention to it? A lot. Okay, so it is important, okay. Because I don't know, I just feel like there's like one option of like fuck that. I know what you need. Yeah, well, well, well, well, see, I'm I'm a mindful guy. You do have some Buddhist energy about you, Sean.

Is it Buddhist? Uh, that's what I think. Um we've now manifested and prayed to the Buddha. Yeah, I mean, it's an urgency that's necessary, right? And then it's like moving the needle with it, right? It's just like, okay, I know she she lives in this space, but I'm gonna give her a little bit more of this, because I think this right here is where she needs to be. You should notice my face. Look at my face, you know, it's a little intense. Uh huh. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So when I look at this, I understand the intensity that's necessary to fight the new fight, right? And a new fight can be love. See, I just went from to love. love. That's how it works. Yeah. Okay. That's just how amazing she is. And I know that part about her.

She switches from to love. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Is that what makes her so special, you think? Like, what what do you think it is about Rihanna? This is just my perspective. Now I've worked with Rihanna, obviously. Yeah. But yeah, I think she's a she's a beautiful. She's a she's a woman. Okay. She's a beautiful woman. And women of that caliber have a little bit of every now and then. You know. The reason why we love her so much is because she got that thing. So it is kind of indescribable. Good quote. Good freaking title. That's a good word. That's a title. I'm not giving you any no publishing on that. I wasn't gonna ask for it, okay? That's only Henry. Indescribable is a good point. good point. You know, when you're working on, you know, stuff for Rihanna, for example, how many songs are you making for her? Because obviously it's not gonna be like batting a thousand, I would assume.

I don't know. I mean, you're Sean Garrett, but are you making like a fuck ton so that she can have her, you know, pick, or are you making very specific, I feel a hundred percent confident that these are the ones. Here we go. Respectfully? Yeah. I'm not gonna tell you that. Okay, why why not? Because if I was to say I don't make enough songs for her to make the to make the bill, then that's a sign of disrespect. Because it's like a lackluster of interest. Okay. Hmm. But I will say I'm shooting for the stars. Okay. How do you know when a song is done? Me and my friends, we, we we we you know, we play this shit over and over and over again and over again. You know, I ride around. That's a good car. You know, I say, hey, bro, what'd you think? I just, you know, some random, one of my random friends, like random music friends who's like, hey, I got some shit I want to play you real quick.

Press play. You know what I'm saying? Like I play for you guys, right? Yeah. Yep. You know what I'm saying? Hey, what you think, guys? Oh, shit. Oh, what the fuck? Oh shit. Oh, damn. I'd be like, oh, okay, cool. I got it. That one's done. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I might be ready. You know what I'm saying? Okay. It comes back to the comes back to the people. It's back to the people, man. At the end of the day, the shit is about the people. Respecting people I work with. You know, I respect all the artists that I've worked with. You know, I think all the artists that I've worked with have been um very helpful in my life, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, this life is not just a day or a moment, it's a journey. Yeah. And through the journey, you you get better and better and better every day, you know. So I don't um the key is just don't quit. Yeah. That's something that we heard recently is like, I mean, if you quit, you're guaranteed a hundred percent not to not to make it. So that's really the only failure. It's like the only failure is quitting, you know?

Yeah. And and and and and I just like, man, I just like the idea. Like, you know, I like the idea of being doubted sometimes. I like it. You know, you seem like you do, bro. You like that you like that chip on your shoulder. I get a little fascinating. Yeah, yeah. You like proving people wrong. I know it. I love I because I love women. Okay. And that was funny. Are they some of your biggest doubters? Or what? How does this come into the dog? I love proving people wrong. No. Yeah, because I love women. No, but seriously. He's gonna bring this. Oh, but that's real though, right? So women, like women are the biggest testers ever. Oh, yeah. They love to test us, bro. And I said, I love proving people wrong. I love women. Did you get you gotta get that? Right. If you know, you know. It's coming together. Women Love to test us, and I love to work on myself.

Meaning, I'm trying to get better and better every day to understand why I'm being tested and what is it, what it is that I need to do better, right? How do I get an A plus on this? How do I get a fucking A plus? Okay, I'm trying to figure it out. Okay. Sean the overachiever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, I'm I mean, I don't know anything else to do. I know. You know, it's like I'm gonna get challenged today. I already know that. What am I gonna do to make it better? Yeah, see, it's it's wild, man, because like I know you're extremely talented when it comes to the actual, you know, creative process side of it, but I'm telling you, man, now having sat with you and T-Ron, it's like your mindset and attitude is, I think, a way bigger like percentage of the whole puzzle here, man. And I think a lot of people could learn to have that fucking dog in them, to be honest, like, and have that like fight and that passion because you can write the most beautiful chords in the world and write the most beautiful lyrics in the world. You can arrange, you know, artists and writers and producers and make it all you know happen.

But if you don't have that like competitive edge that you clearly got and that T-Ron damn sure has as well, I don't think it works like it does. It has to be a fucking dog. Yeah. You like all of the bullshit aside, bro. Like all of these people, because you know, you know, you know, the people, you know who are the biggest dogs are the people who control the narrative. And it's just like I'm not arguing with no dogs. You know. I'm saying, think about what I'm saying. Yeah. It's like I'm not gonna argue with the dog. Either I'm biting or I'm not. It's like we get, hey, what's up? Hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Okay. It's an understanding, right? And when you see what you see, you understand what you see, and you must get out when it's time to get out. But when it comes to war on the field about like technique, we're gonna, we're gonna fucking compete at the highest level.

I gotta figure that shit out, right? And it's it's an understanding. So it's like, hey man, we're almost there. We're like 70% there, guys, but we need to push another 30 because you know what I'm saying? I'm hearing, I'm I'm sensing some shit's going on, you know. See, I I just think something that you know you've said multiple times in this is like, you know, we gotta, you know, even just talking to like the writers in the room when you're producing, right? Being like, that's not good enough. I don't think enough indie artists that, you know, I think a big reason why they're, their music isn't cutting through is because they're not challenging themselves enough. Like they're they're I think they're just accepting like their their bar is too low. And I don't know if they have too many yes men around them, or I don't know what the fuck it is, or honestly, right? But it's like, or if it's laziness and don't want to rework songs, maybe that need to be reworked. Well, if you look at the whole concept of like, okay, it depends on going for what ring, right? Now, if you got an indie artist who don't have a label or you know, a team behind them that's supporting them in their plight for what?

Like, there's always a answer, a question and an answer. Um, when I was at home in my when I was at home in my mom's house writing songs, I didn't know who I was competing against. I was just trying to do something that I thought that was good enough for me to listen to. Once I figured out, oh damn, somebody might like something that I do, then you have to level up your mindset to realize what do you decided to what have you decided to do to go outside. When you go outside, it's competition. You know what I'm saying? It's cool when you're at the house. When you're at your house, shit, I mean, walk around with your motherfucking in your pajamas and do whatever the fuck you want to do. But when you go outside, you're gonna have to put some clothes on. You know what I'm saying? You can't just do whatever the fuck you want to do when you go outside. And I think that's the point of view. You it's respect.

You have to put a certain length of respect on yourself and respect for what you're doing. Yeah, and I think I just think some people look at that as like bending to the game or something. You know, it's like they feel like they have to change their themselves and their art. My art is my art. My art. Like, I want to make what I want to make in my pajamas and in my bedroom. And the the whole like notion of going outside and like respecting the the game and respecting like the other competition that you're up against. I don't know. I feel like that like doesn't always click with a lot of our community. I don't know. Do you want me to answer the question as me? Or do you want me to ask questions as a weirdo? I don't know. weirdo. I kind of want both. On me? Yeah. You you motherfucking trippin'. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You can't go ask for a job at the bank and then just pull up in your motherfucking pajamas. Yeah. Okay. It's not gonna work. I don't know, fuck. You know what I'm saying? If I'm a spoiled brat and I'm at the crib and I just feel like my mama never

got money and shit, and I can do whatever the fuck I want to do, and I just want to make videos and cool. Shit works. That can work too. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You gotta pay your motherfucking bills at the end of the day. How bad do you want this to be your career for real? Yeah. People love to do that shit to you. Hey, well, I you know, I was in my, you know, I was in my basement, and all I did is I just did 10 songs and went viral. Okay. Yeah, you can stream. You can make some money. But what is this about? Is this about the art form? Or is it about streaming money? You know, it's just like music is the music business. Music business, streaming business, two different things. Yeah. How do you feel about the state of music right now? Wow. I think we're confused. Okay.

I think we have completely allowed ourselves to be bamboozled. Okay, what do you mean specifically? It's what you like, man. If you'd like to make money, that's one thing. If you like to make music, that's another thing. If you like uh attention, that's another thing. So I think we're in a in a in a very, very strange space. And you know, that's that's how that's how it works, man. You know, people interject, it's like distractions. They'll interject other things. Hey, if you think this, cool. Let me add this. Let's see how it feels now. Let me add this. Let me see how it feels now. Um that's everybody's life, If, you know. If you give a football player a new 40 million dollar contract, sometimes they send uh uh distractions their way. Let's see if you can make it through the first year of distractions, right?

And still be able to keep up your same uh level of production. Yeah. We've been what's the term we've been using on every episode lately? Self-awareness, self-awareness It's right here in the screen. Really is the key to that shit. So, like, how difficult is it once you have a uh song on an album, right? How difficult is it to kind of be? I mean, at that point, it's not really up to you what happens. Like how hard the label pushes it, do they push it the right way? How excited is the artist about it? Is the artist promoted the right way? Is that difficult to like have to take the like sitting on the side? I don't know. I just would that would drive me fucking nuts. I I feel like that when I just see some of our artist friends putting out records that I love, but then they don't do what I think they should be doing with them. Is that tough? Been there, man. Yeah, been there, been there a number of times. Uh hell yeah. Um, I mean, who wants to be turned, who wants to be put on hold? Who wants to be turned down?

Who who wants to be told, hey, we see you, but hold up, wait. Who the fuck got time for that? Do you, you know, speak your piece to the like labels and the artist teams and stuff if you see things happening? Like, or like how vocal are you when it comes to, you know, how records should be managed as far as like the releases and promotion, et cetera. I mean, you could be as vocal, you know, when you become like uh a legend, you know, you you know, people listen to you, but they don't listen to you. You know, I'm gonna keep it. behind. So even when you're Sean Garrett, it's still they do what the fuck they want. It's gonna be about the wind at the end of the day. And whomever can come up for air? And after being down there 40 feet deep in the ocean, those are gonna be the people that's gonna be able to tell the story of what it looked like down there 40 feet under the ocean. You know, we're all swimming at the top on the boat, maybe.

I don't know. Floating On the boat. They don't know what that's like. Yeah, they don't even know what it's like to be down in there. And to the people that always have the big ass question. What are you doing now? Hold on to that belt and that ring that ain't nobody been able to motherfucking take down. Let's go. Henry, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. Oh shit. Is it time? We're in the rafters. Is it time? With Penzel Washington. The Pen Pen Roethlisberger. We're in the rafters. Pen Affleck. Did and Jay-Z gave you that, right? Man, shout out to Big Jay-Z, Big Jay, man. Huge. Incredible. That was a light flex, man. That was Henry. That was cool. I want to throw that in there. I didn't even do that. That was a light flex. He didn't call himself the pen. He could have, but this was Don. Could have. by the way, I have to point out this point. Sure. You know, I'm a little disappointed in you guys. Yeah, I thought y'all was gonna pull this out. But on Billboard, okay. So we can get real tactical here.

Let's go. Okay. On Billboard, they just released um greatest songwriters of 21st century. Did y'all see that? No. Okay. Fuck. Fuck Sean. No, not fuck Sean. No. Fuck Sean. Sean. Okay, got it. So anyway. So what number are you? I'm 23. Okay. It's too low. No. 23 is ill. Jay-Z 25. Kanye is 24. You're in. Cool. Amazing company. And above both. Exactly. Yeah. I'm I'm 23. Yes. Now, now it's it's it's almost like a love of that. And then it's like, I got more work to do, right? Yeah, we gotta crack the top 10 next year. Yeah. I mean it's a century. 21st. Oh, 21st century, sorry. Yeah. Maybe the 22nd century. We gotta crack that in the 22nd century, bro. 21st fucking century is nuts.

Yeah. Yeah. But I was 23, and uh Max Martin, man. Shout out to Max Martin. He's number one. Yes. Yeah, not surprised. Sure. Yeah. Shout out to JD. He was like 19. I think uh Pharrell was like, well, no, Pharrell was 19. I think JD was 21. That's some great. I mean, y'all should pull that list up. We will. It's already on the screen. It's on the screen right now. It's in the edit. And it'll be in the intro, too, right? Absolutely. It's already in the intro. I just want to draw some perspective to things. Yeah, we need it. Yeah. I thought I had all the fucking perspective. So contrast. We did our research. Yeah. Yeah. And then we just. Contrast. Totally got fucked. Anyway, this is the rapid fire rampage with Sean Garrett. Sean. When you get interviewed, then you interview. Bro, he's embarrassing us on our own fucking show, man. We did research, but he didn't catch that. Editors, cut this out. How did we not find that? Cut it out, editors. I am embarrassed. God, no. Put it at the beginning as if we said it. AI. Don't do it. Don't say that to me.

No, no, no, no. Anyway, it's gonna be a three-part rampage. Sean, we're about to lock in here. I'm gonna start with just some short answer questions, okay? Starting with how are you doing? You know what? That's a great question, man. Today, I am um, I'm a little hurt. I'm a little damaged today. Because um, you know, I'm going to see my my brother Lil John. Celebration of life. Lil John lost his son. Yeah. If I can be honest, you know, I'm a little hurt today. I love little John. Got a chance to have so much success with him. And uh his son was someone that really touched me, though. Really touched me. Um he was such an amazing kid. Um, so much talent, man. He was a DJ. He was a producer. Um he actually reminded me so much of my son, man.

So I'm a little torn today. You know what I'm saying? My energy could have been way more crazier. But um, you know, shout out to Lil' John, man, his family. And um, you know. If you ask me, I'm going to be honest. Yeah, no, we appreciate that. That's for sure. Shout out John, man. Yeah, terrible loss. Yeah, and appreciate you making time to come on such a heavy day. Seriously. So moving on, what is your most controversial music opinion? Maybe music industry opinion. Um, I just think like my probably my most controversial opinion would probably be like the fact that like, you know, just fighting to be a hitmaker, you know, fighting to be one of the greatest. You know what I mean? Um, my monica is the greatest songwriter alive. Yeah. Yeah. He used to be, yeah, smash on the radio, but I bend it. Uh great songwriter alive means a lot in my community.

Um people from my community, they don't write songs. As a songwriter, you know what I'm saying? They make their own songs, but they never deem themselves as like a songwriter. Like, I'm I'm a great songwriter alive, you know. Um Yeah, we don't hear that enough. Like, I am here to make hits. Yeah. Yeah. It's rare. Yeah, that's that's that that was my plight from day one, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Love that. Um my first 10 singles were How 100 number ones. And um, you know, I just pay attention to the idea of like the hit making perspective. Right. And I work hard at trying to be great at that. Love it. Absolutely. Moving on. Sean, what are your go-to studio snacks? Uh sometimes, man. I like, I like faux. Mm-hmm. Okay, actually. But that faux man, you know what I'm saying? Throw that you know what I'm saying? Have a little noodles in it, you know what I'm saying? Throw the sh- you know what I mean?

I'm being funny. Yeah. I hope y'all edit this right, man. Well, we're keeping that. Yeah, there's no editing happening with that. It'd be like, man, what in the fuck? What in the fuck? Is he? The fuck? What in the fuck? Very good, very good. Come on, Sean. Uh I do like fuck. every now and then, man. I love the uh bold Chex mix. Okay. You know? From pho to the Chex Mix bowl? I'm serious. Yeah, I know. I hear you. Like Chex mix. Yeah. That's hard. Chocolate chip cookie. The hot chocolate chip cookies out the oven is fire. That's a classic. You know what I'm saying? Studio staple. Smoking. Bring out that batch. Kiss me two of them. Out of there. You know what I'm saying? Get them. Well, I love it. Book them down. on. Sean, what would you say is the best investment you ever made in your career? My best investment I've made in my career. People.

God, it's all about the people, man. Huge. Huge. Huge. I love like when there's recurring themes throughout the whole episode. I hope you guys are absorbing it. And I also hope that you guys like this video. Leave a comment and subscribe to the channel if you're getting some value from Sean Motherfucking Garrett the Pen right now. You feel me? Come on, man. Last one with a short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Fuck out of here. Fuck out of here. I love that Out of here attached to it. Let's go. It's great. That made it unique. Fuck out of here. Fuck out of here. The fuck? Oh, Duff Fuck is fantastic. Nice. Close runner up. Yeah. Love it. Part two is the this or that. Sean, I'm just gonna give you two choices. I just need you to pick one of them. Okay. Starting with. Lyrics or flow. Flow. Hooks or verses. Hooks. Drums or melodies. Big drums. Ooh. Big drums. Drum energy. BDE. First gut feeling or develop it for a while.

No, me the Pisces. Develop it for a while. Yeah, we're working on it. Major key or minor key? Major. Eight harmony stacks or one clean lead. Eight harmony stacks. Car test or phone speaker test. Play a car. Ad libs or no ad libs? All ad libs. Win quietly or celebrate publicly? Quietly. Modern polish or vintage vibe? Vintage vibe. Books or podcasts. Hmm. Podcasts. And finally, become a full-time EDM DJ or leave the music industry forever. Go get some money. He's spinning them records. Bro, he's one way or the other. He's joining EDM. He's joining DJ Diesel. DJ the Diesel. DJ Diesel. It's gonna be Shaq and uh the pen back to back. Fire, man, believe that. I love the uh idea, man, DJing.

And um expounding on your your energy, man. Your truth, man. It's like you can't take this man out the industry, man. It's just not happening. No way, man. He's in his place. He's excited, man. The last part is the word association. I'm gonna say one word, and you just give me the first word that you think of right off the top of your head. You're not judged on your answers. You're only judged on speed. Starting with music. Greatest songwriter alive. We'll take, yeah, we'll take a phrase. we'll take a phrase. Okay. Atlanta. Greatest songwriter alive. Okay. Let's see where this is going. Let's give him a couple of see where we're going. Bridge. Ain't no way, ain't no way. I'm gonna let you down. We can't You know what I'm saying? That works. That's great. AI. We'll take that. Sounds are good. 5 a.m. Living studio. Mohawk. Sean Garrett.

Sean Garrett with the pen. Turbo 919. Let's go. Turbo 919. I know. I'm Sure. Red flag. That's a good one. Red flag. Should just get say immediately. I say moments. TikTok. Currency. Beyonce. My dear. Caffeine. Deadly. Trendy. Fun. Guilty pleasure. Love. 808. Me. Bed-eye. Pendant. Let's go. And Sean Garrett, the motherfucking. Let's go, baby. One more time. Podcast. Comment and subscribe, man. Yeah, we had a good run, man. It's over. It's over. We're going out on top. We got the pen. We're done. We're done. Thanks for joining us. We will see you never. Bye bye. Peace. Peace. Peace.