SadBoi Interview: Why a Strong Artist Brand is KEY

What if when you ask me a question I don't remember my answer? I can't think. Then I'll just like quickly move along. Oh my god, this is making me really anxious. Do some like vocal warm-ups, the goofy thing. Maybe I need to have another drink. Do you want to do a shot? Probably. Let's do a shot. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. I am so thrilled to be welcoming on the One More Time podcast RB singer, songwriter, superstar. It's Janae Aiko in the building. Oh shit. Let's go. Is that how you pronounce her name? Yeah, I mean, I thought so. Did you ask Google about that one? I Googled it. Okay, okay. That's so crazy. Yeah. All jokes aside, we got all those accolades, honestly. We got sad boy. Sad boy. Crybabies, where are you at? Is that the name for your fans? Crybabies? Crybabies. I love that.

How do they respond to that? They love it. They love it. Mm-hmm. They really love it. I'm not gonna lie to you at first. When I was like, oh my god, I love my crybabies. I was like, oh my god, they're gonna hate this. They're gonna think this is so stupid, but they actually love it. Yeah. Wow. I see that. Like working perfect. And why don't all artists have a name for their fans? oh don't get me started. I mean, at this point, I'm a barb, I'm a swifty. Oh my god. And now I'm a crybaby. Crybaby's cooler than both of those. I think. Heavy on a barb. Okay. Heavy on being a barb. Yeah. Yeah. How about it? How about being a Swifty? Not so heavy? I love Taylor Swift. Okay. So all right. Wow. Okay. So you're all three of those. But noticed she didn't say I'm a Swifty. She said I love Taylor Swift. Is there a distinction? I'm a Swifty. Okay. And they're both sages. Oh, and are you Sag? Yeah. Oh gosh. You're in good company. All right, all right. Let's get this going. So I I was trying to research. You know, I always like to prepare. I like to be as, you know, prepared as possible for these interviews. And I was like, there's not that much on Sad Boy out there on the internet. And then I found you.

Then I fucking found you. Cause your artist name used to be Ebony. Mm-hmm. Okay. Don't, don't fucking play with me. I was like, okay, I was almost ready to give up. I was like, oh fuck it. We're just, you know, maybe she's brand new, never done this artist thing before, and she's just popping off. Nope. No, no, Ebony. We found you. So I want to start by just understanding like what was the like what prompted the name change, you know, and and why why go through that and become sad boy? Like, you know, what are we, what are we trying to achieve with this? I'm so sorry. Saying like Ebony, like as my artist name, it sounds like so crazy to me. Why? Um, well, Ebony is my real name. Oh, I just feel like it's so long, yeah. Like you really, I just put you out. I was just like, All right, Complex magazine put you out, pitchfork, like popular the one more time podcast is not putting your government out there. It gets, it's been. Um, well, Ebony is

my real name. Okay. I started out on YouTube. Um, I was doing YouTube covers when I was like 11. What was your first cover? Um Keisha Cole Love. Oh, yeah. Fire. Yeah. Um, I did it for like a contest, and I just kept doing YouTube covers, but it was to get in like these like little contests. So, like in Toronto, we have this thing called CNE, and it's like an amusement park, like kind of like what you guys be doing here, like every now and then. But they actually be having talent shows. So that was like my way into the talent show. Like you had to upload a YouTube cover. And then I made it in the talent show, and I was like, damn, like people actually kind of like it. But I didn't really like notice at the time. And then I was like, okay, like I actually just enjoyed singing to the camera. And I kind of just kept doing YouTube covers, and I just kept doing that, doing that, doing that, doing that, and then I started working with um this producer songwriter his name's Sammy um and we worked on like a bunch of stuff until I was like what 16 17 oh damn and then I moved to Atlanta and I was basically solo it was just like my mom and I we moved to Atlanta and I was very dependent on him because it was very much like you know what like he would like produce he would like write the songs so I felt like I really like needed him and that was like my first time actually like working on my ones like just doing everything by myself so it was like a struggle because it's just like things weren't working out um but at the same time I was like able to like find myself in a way because I was writing my own stuff right and I was like working with new people and I was figuring out like what I liked and what I didn't like. So then I got to a place like what November where I was like damn I'm gonna change my name to Sad Boy.

But that's like a whole story why I changed my name to Sad Boy. So what I mean were you sad about like what was happening in life like with this whole move and stuff no um so like the more I started writing music it kind of just became like a journal like I was just like write about things that like I wouldn't necessarily talk about and I was listening back to the songs and I actually kind of like was going through those things where I was like damn like it was kind of like a moment where like I think like every artist kind of has this where they're like damn like something needs to change because something's obviously not working, and you kind of go through this like phase or like this point where you're just like, okay, I'm figuring out like who I am, or like you know, like what I like and what I don't like and like what I stand for and all that stuff. So I just felt like Ebony didn't fit anymore, and I just felt like the biggest thing was like my artist name. So I actually went back, and we were actually sitting, it was my mom and my stepdad, and we were all sitting in the kitchen, and we were like driving home, and we're like, damn, like what's a name? Like, what's a really good name?

And we were like thinking of all these crazy names. Um what were some of the ones that didn't make the list, or like you know, that didn't make the cut. Because I know like a big inspo was like Lady Gaga. Okay, sure. Hey, she's a big inspo for me. So I was like, damn, like what's something that could stand beside Lady Gaga? So I was just like looking up like a bunch of stuff. Um, but nothing like fit, and then I went to shower and I went upstairs, and my stepdad was like, I have a name, and I was like, What's the name? And he's like, sad boy. Ooh, wow. And I was like, sad boy, like people are gonna think I'm like, you know, like a boy. And then he's like, Well, that's so fire. I'm like, what about sad girl? And my best friend was with me too, and he looked at me, he's like, I like sad girl. And I was like, no, sad girl doesn't hit. And I'm like, I think sad boy. And I just fell in love with that name, and I think like just like recognizing like the people that support me, and you know, like even like the stuff I wrote about, because it came from a song, like sad boy. Yeah, like what was the song about?

So it was about a sad boy, it was about this boy who was like, Well, very on the nose, obviously, very on the nose. Yeah, It was about a boy who like broke my heart, and he was just like into partying into drugs, and like just wasn't treating me well, and like in my mind, like I just felt like he was really sad. Because I guess like people would say, like battling demons. And I just felt like he was going through so much, and he was like just sad deep down, so it wasn't necessarily like, you know, like me. I wasn't the problem. But I definitely think it was like a him issue. And I just kept saying sad boy, sad boy, sad boy. So that's really like where it came from. Oh damn. Yeah. So it sounded like there was, you know, you had your music career, it was starting, you were doing covers, you were doing talent shows, et cetera. But like something wasn't working to your satisfaction, right? Like when you made the shift, did the music change as far as like the the you know themes you were writing about, or like you know, the way you were singing, like like I guess what changed with the with the name. Um I honestly think like just me being myself.

I think like it was just like again, like I was writing my own music, you know, like I was writing about like my own experiences. Like every single night, like I'd be in my bathroom, like I write in my bathroom. So I'd be in my bathroom sink and I'd be writing about like whatever happened that day. So it's very specific to like what I was going through. It wasn't like someone else's story or anything like that. So I think that was like a big, like that was the big, like, you know. It became real. Yeah, it's so interesting though, right? Yeah, she goes from her real name. I know, yeah, to the not a real name, A fake name. but the stories are real, but the stories convert from not fake stories necessarily, but just not your stories, yeah, to then your stories, but with the different name. It sounds so crazy, right? Yeah, it sounds counterintuitive, but it makes sense. It's actually kind of funny though, because a lot of people be like, is sad boy an alter ego? And I'm like, no, sad boy is really me. Like, this is not an alter ego. Yeah, because that's what I was gonna ask, is like, you know, we talk about this a lot of authenticity has to be there for fans to like latch on to it, right? Like, you know, we're gonna sniff the bullshit out.

If you're not talking about some real shit, we're gonna we're gonna know pretty easily, right? But there is that thing of like an artist can be a exaggeration or a character at some times, right? So, like, what's what's your perspective of like how how much are you putting on with like you know, the the visuals and the performances and like all those things, right? Like, how much is actually real life versus you know an artist brand? Because I feel like it's okay to have some things that are just like this is the artist, right? How do you feel about that? I mean, like right now, I'm doing this interview. I don't like talking. Yeah, that's there you go. I think that's that. I think that's that, Ben. Next question. I think that's the big thing. I don't like talking, which is I mean, all right, so I I was at your show last night, and still to hear that you are like, you know, normally a shy person, and to your point, like getting you to talk on an interview is like an act of Congress, apparently, that we're getting through together, guys. We're on this journey together, all right.

No one can leave us alone on this. I mean I'm not jumping ship yet. Yeah, don't jump ship, all right. You either. Uh, because you're kind of the most, I mean, we could keep going, but it'd be awkward. Um, but no, it's it's interesting because you're like live performance, I mean, you look so confident up there, right? And like the place was pretty packed out. I mean, it was at, you know, an 800 cap room. That bitch looked like it was, you know, getting near full to the back, right? And so for me, I feel like it is like how how do you find the courage or like the the confidence to be up there doing your thing when like sitting on this couch with just some like you know, non-threatening uh people are like you know that makes you nervous more so than maybe being up on stage in front of hundreds of people. Um honestly I I'm gonna be so real with you. I think my social skills are just fucked up because when I was like in middle school up until high school, like maybe grade nine, I got bullied really bad. So I didn't have many friends, like I didn't speak to people, like and whenever I had the like chance to like speak to people, I kind of felt like I was like being judged, so I kind of like felt awkward.

Like I'd be like, damn, like I don't want to say the wrong thing, and like all that. So I think like I definitely get nervous before I perform. Like, damn, like I feel like I gotta shit. Like, I'm not I've heard people say that before. I feel like I'm gonna shit my pants. I was talking to someone about a uh artist who I used to manage his show. My wife literally goes, Didn't he throw up as he was going on stage? Literally nine times out of ten. Literally, he threw up as he was as he was coming out, like put on a good show you know after that. Yeah, get that out of the way. Some people were some people are you know coming out up top, and I mean, yes, clearly, you think you know, yeah, something's gonna happen down below. I mean, I mean, I'd be feeling like I gotta shit. That's crazy. But like I'd be nervous, but I think like me going out there, I I love performing. Like, I've always been like that, like, even from when I was younger. Like, before I even had like music, like my music was never good. I'm just gonna say that.

Okay, I think it all starts somewhere. And so, like, now, like I'm like, damn, like my music is actually fire. But like, at one point, like my music was really bad, but like I just built my name, like Ebony, and like all like that I have now, like, I really built it off of my live shows. So it's just me performing, and that was just because that's something that I love to do. Like even YouTube covers, like that was just something I always loved doing, performing. So I think like when I'd go on stage, like I'd be nervous. Like I definitely have times where I'm like, what if someone doesn't like me? Like I have those shows where like I'm performing and I see one girl that's giving me like a salty look, like she is not enjoying my performance. Just focus on her. Yes, you don't want to stare at her. There's a hundred people vibing, but you're locked in on the one hater. Yeah, I'll just stare at her. It's always like that. And I think it kind of makes me feel like powerful in a way. And it kind of sounds fucked up to say, right? You like stare them down. Because then she ends up smiling after I'm like, damn, I got you to like me.

I mean, it kind of sounds like all right, I don't know if you saw this at all on her feed, but she she does this thing, and I was actually really sad that you didn't do it last night at the performance. The sad boy sacrifice. So just for the people that aren't familiar, what happens there? It's uh women getting their power back. And basically, like you want me to explain like what I do. I mean, yeah, like paint this is an audio. I mean, then it's a visual, but like you know, just explain the the you know. I mean, I don't think I would do it just do it justice, so maybe you can help me out. So basically, um, one of my songs, yeah. This is so jokes. Yeah. We're doing it. We're going there. I actually thought about doing it last night too, but I'm like, maybe this isn't the vibe. But you were literally staring at me at one point, the same way you were staring at this girl, apparently trying to win her over. Did you have a hating ass look on your face? I thought I had a great look on my face. I was enjoying it, but she did like lock eyes for a while, and like you probably weren't. Maybe it was the person behind me, I don't know.

But I was like, oh shit. She's I I had to go back to the back. I don't know. I just thought I knew you did this whole thing that you're about to describe, so I was just nervous that I was like, Oh, you're like, damn, she's gonna call me out. Exactly. I was like, fuck. Yeah, I was like, fuck no, I'm not. Like, I can't do this. Okay, so yeah, explain it, explain it to me, because I don't know. Okay, so Sad Boy Sacrifice is basically one of my songs, Potential. I basically call a guy on stage. I'm like, damn, I need a guy on stage. So I call out a guy on stage, and I basically have him go on all fours. Well, I don't have him. Yes, you just ask him to. No, you and he doesn't. He listens. There's no option, okay? He has no fucking choice in the matter. I've seen the videos. I mean, don't let her fool you folks. No. No, they can't. Has anyone ever said no? No, but I've definitely had like guys like, you know, like fall in the middle of me being on their back. wait, so you're on their back. Yeah, I was like,

Keep going, keep going. So they're on all fours, okay? Because this is painting a funny picture for Henry. They're all on they're all on they're on all fours. There it is. You got it. and basically I sit on their back and I perform my song. Whoa. And sometimes I tease them, sometimes I bring out a whip. I was like, she's not just sitting, she's all like getting a ride. And they enjoy it. Yeah. They really enjoy it. They seem like it. But it really is like it's like you know what's so crazy though? It's not like meant to be a sexual thing at all. And I think like a lot of guys are just freaks and they like it. But it wasn't meant to be sexual at all. It was really just meant to be be a moment where like women are kind of taking their power back. Um it makes me feel good. So why didn't you do it last night? Because you performed pretty much. Last night I was trying to rage. Yeah. Okay. See, because that that was the thing that I was telling Henry before you got here. I was like, yeah, like the show last night. I had no completely different. Yeah, I had no clue who Nia Archives was.

Is that because of who the other acts were? That you did you mold it a little bit? Yes, it's Nia Archives. Nia Archives. And like to be honest with you, she's one of my favorite DJs. And I think that was like, well, for me and my my mindset going into it was how do I put on a show but also make it like a really good moment and something that people can walk away from and be like, damn, like because to be honest with you, it's I don't even know if it's something that's gonna happen again, like when I'm gonna have that moment. But that was like my moment to kind of bring in like my favorite DJs, like from Toronto and have them mix my songs and just kind of bring people into my world, like how I grew up, like the nightlife. So I literally just remixed like all my songs, and it was by like this DJ from Toronto, Nino, and she basically did all the mixes, but it was just like showing Toronto nightlife. And I've never performed like that in my life. Like, usually it's like, okay, like I'm gonna go up there, this routine, this routine, like I'm gonna do this. Whereas this time, like it was literally just mixes and it was just dancing, just having fun.

Yeah, so it's completely different. That was my first time ever doing that. Did you like it more or just different? Like, you know, how'd you feel about it walking away? I loved both. I I like both ways performing. I think this was fun because it's like my first time doing that, you know? Yeah, and it kind of made me feel like I was just like in my bedroom in a weird way. Yeah. Like singing in the shower, it's just everything's better. Yeah, because everyone's just dancing on drugs. Yeah, okay. See, okay, thank you. Because I like walked in. I'm, you know, I was probably like one of the oldest people in the room, right? Like these are young, lots of white people though. I don't know if you were expecting that from Nia Archives, but like I didn't know what to expect, right? What is it? She's basically kind of like jungle. Yeah, it's like jungle dance. Yeah, jungle bass type shit. High energy. Yeah, so like definitely a high percentage on drugs for sure. Lots of, you know, that they were there to rage, right? Like yeah, because I walked in and the opening DJ was going crazy. I was like, okay, I'm awake now. Like I, you know, it's like still thrown off.

And with what you it sounds like you ended up performing, it sounds like that fits way better with something like that. So it sounds like yeah, you obviously gave it thought and kind of molded your show to fit that. I mean, like it was an opportunity for me to bring like I think I think every opportunity I have, I try to look for opportunities to bring people into my world. And that was just an opportunity for me to bring people into like the nightlife world that I grew up in, you know? Yeah, no, I mean I think it's it's huge for our audience, right? Is that like if they get the chance to open for, you know, a headliner and go on. I mean, you know, I think you're doing like six six plus dates with with uh Nia, right? So if you had that opportunity, like you should not just do the same fucking set that you're maybe used to every time. I mean, like, think about the moment that you can create, right? Like, you know, you looked at it and you're like, hey, this is what her crowd's gonna be like, probably. How do I deliver like some version of that that's still sad boy? Yeah, but like, you know, fits a little bit different mold, you know what I mean? So I think it's smart, and I think that people oftentimes I don't know if it's laziness or you know, whatever, but they need comfort comfort too comfort.

People want to perform something that they're used to and they've done it a bunch of times and they want to minimize the half the shit feeling probably as much as possible. Yeah, which I understand. Did you have to shit more or less last night before you went on stage? Would you, would you you say? You know, scale on like not to shit your pants. Do we need to do a shit scale right now, Ben? I don't even know if we had to do that. This is like a shit scale. It's valuable for our audience, right? I think like, I definitely had to shit last night. Okay. I had to shit last night. But I want to use the washroom, but I couldn't use the washroom because someone shit in the washroom already, so it smelled really bad. And you don't want to mix smells. Now you got me doing it. Come on. I don't know. Damn. So, like, you think it was Nia? You think it was Nia? It was definitely not Nia. Oh, I'm just saying. She's confident. It could have been Nia. It was not Nia. Oh my gosh. Okay. That's true. So, So how much of your music is like based on personal experiences now, right? Like, is it all pretty much sad it's all sad boy stories now? Unfortunately. Yeah.

We've talked to some people, like, when you're writing about something that you know had a big impact on you, like how how how deep in the rabbit hole of like emotions are you getting, right? In that bathroom that you're writing in. You know what I mean? Very deep. Yeah. I think like um, I don't like talking, like I said before. You're doing a good job so far, though. Absolutely. Yeah. But this is fun. I'm enjoying that. Okay, yeah, we are too. Um, I don't like talking, so like I don't even like expressing myself. Like, whenever there's a situation, whether it's like a relationship or like if I'm going through something, like it's so rare that I'm even gonna talk about it. So I just kind of like brush it off, and then like I just go in my washroom and write. But I don't even take in until after I'm done writing how fucked up it is. So you're like you're like blacking out almost during the writing process. Yeah, but I think it's just something that I learned to do. Like, that's why I'm like, I think my social skills are so fucked up. Because I think like being bullied really like fucked with me mentally because I'm just like, you kind of just learn to like brush things to the side and like not really talk about certain things, and it's just like, okay, something happens, like it's cool, like whatever.

So I think like when I'm writing music, it's like I'm letting things out, but like I'm not really, I'm obviously feeling the production because it's bringing something out of me, but like I'm not thinking twice about like what I'm saying. So like once I record the song and I actually pay attention to my lyrics, I'm like, damn, maybe I should see it there. Yeah, it sounds like it's a release, like, because you know, it's dangerous a lot of times to hold in certain like very heavy emotions, you know, that stuff just like can grind away at you, and you just pack it away until you have a heart attack. So it sounds like music, you kind of found it, you know, as like an outlet for that. It's actually so crazy you said that because on my but a bit after my birthday in December, I always go through this thing where like I hold everything in, and then like every two months, like one thing could happen. It could be like I did this interview, for example, and it's like you guys said something.

I'm like, damn, why would they say that? And the floodgates open. Yeah, like I will literally be crying for like two days, and that happened to me like last year, like around my birthday, and my chest, it felt like there was like an elephant on my chest. And that was like the moment where I was like, damn, like I really need to do better with expressing myself. So like I'll just like talk to my mom about like anything I have going on because I'll just hold it in. And so like it kind of got to a point, like imagine like you don't speak to anyone for like years, like you just like kind of like learn to like hold everything in, and it gets to a point where it's like unhealthy and your body actually starts to like feel it. Physically, and I was just like, damn, like why does my chest feel like this? Like, I was actually like where you know, and I kind of just like learned, like, damn, I really need to express myself and take a whole shift I mean I'm not that good at expressing myself, but I try. No, I mean it's huge. Yeah, yeah, you need something. Yeah, there has to be something. It sounds like you might need. I mean, do we need to get you on the the couch at one point, I guess. I mean you know we don't we just we you know yeah whether it's therapy or you're a painter or you record music like there has to be something there's you ignore these things for too long and it does like show up in physically negative ways yeah so it's beautiful that you found that so obviously you're not just making music in a vacuum in your bathroom like you are collaborating with people. I mean we saw you with our friend Dos Diaz who's a Grammy winning engineer right so like you are out in the world now like making music with people and so I'm kind of curious though like how hard is that for you being shy and not being necessarily you know comfortable around other people and maybe you don't want to be vulnerable around them.

You don't want to express how you're feeling through your music with people you don't know or you've just met like has that impacted your ability to kind of move around the industry at all? Um no because I think like building relationships is a big thing um and I try my best to build relationships and keep relationships even if a session goes bad um and they do sometimes yeah like I've literally have had sessions where like I've worked with like writers or like producers and I just sit there quiet because I'm just like I don't really like it or like I'm just not into it. But I think it's also like really important to like kind of you know know yourself and also make the best out of situations. Like sometimes like in those situations where like I find myself like kind of stepping out my comfort zone and doing something that I never thought I would do. Like, and I know it sounds crazy, like maybe I'll walk away like hating it, but like I'm like enjoying it. Like I kind of try to like be like in the moment um and make the best out of it.

And if I end up making like a rock song and I walk away and I'm like, this shit is trash, then I at least know that like I tried, you know. Yeah. Um I think for me, like writers is very hard. I think that's like a really big thing for me. That's really hard because I think it's- Using a writer. Yeah, I feel like it's really hard for me to like open up like there's this one um girl that I work really close with, her name's Lowell. But I could talk to her about anything. She's like a big sister. Like, I literally like will see her, and I'll go to her house and I'll just talk to her for like hours. I'll be like, this does this happen to me, and this is this is this, and this is this is this. It feels like a therapy session. But you know, like I know like sometimes like I think it's just about like knowing, like you're not gonna get that out of certain people, you know. Like you connect with who you connect with, and that's fine, but still make the best out of the situation. And I think I learned I'm like I'm learning to do that because I'm like, damn, this shit sucks. But then I'm like, you know, but they're actually still fire, like, you know, so just make the best out of it. Yeah, yeah.

I think people that you have genuine relationships with and can spend time with outside of the studio, you're way more likely to make better music with them because you just have kind of a mutual understanding of each other, you know. If you're just if your only relationship with someone is in the studio, it's hard to just be inspired by something or like be able to reference something that you talked about, or it just helps to have that deeper connection. Yeah, we just interviewed Trey Trax, who uh produces most of like Saucy Santana shit and Lotto shit. shit. Um, he's a crazy producer. And he talked about how like his thing is that like he's really only working with people that he genuinely calls friends. And and he thinks that that's a big reason why he gets the records that he gets out of these artists, right? Is that like they have this personal connection where they're calling each other when they've had a fucked up day, they're going to each other's houses on Thanksgiving, like they're genuinely you know, personally connected to one another. They're getting hookah at the club every night. Yeah, they're doing birthday week celebrations for each other's birthdays.

Um, and yeah, you know, he pointed out that like that's something where he's just trying to jog his brain is like you know, what's working? And he thinks that that's like a huge leg up on people that are just like sending beat packs through emails and have never worked with the artists. Like, yeah, can you land a placement? Sure, but is the song gonna necessarily like hit the same as you know? I think also too, like when I changed my name, it was so easy. I think it kind of goes into branding, right? And I think when I changed my name, I was like, okay, like when people would like DM me beats, or like when they would DM me like not DM, inbox, email, whatever, same thing, right? My space message, My space. telegram, carrier pigeon. I don't know how they're getting you fucking beats these days. When they would like send me beats or like you know, songs, I'd be like, this does not feel like a Southworth record. And that kind of goes back to what I was saying when I went by my name, like when I went by Ebony, I would take anything and everything, like whatever it was people gave me. If I loved a song, I was like, this is like my song, I'm taking it.

But then now I'm realizing where it's like there's songs that I love, but I'm just like, this doesn't feel like me. And I think that's like a really big thing to like, you know. Making that distinction. Yeah, you can love the Beatles, but you're never gonna make a Beatles record. Yeah, I mean, just also, yeah, I mean, being selective and understanding like what is the brand that we're trying to achieve here, and knowing, and this is this is where you know, I know you have a lot of support from the LVRN folks, right? And I think that they do that shit almost flawlessly. Very good. They understand so well, like who are you as an artist? Like what story are we telling? And let's pick the records, right? Together alongside the artist, obviously, with with your vision, but like let's let's pick the ones that really resonate with like this thing that we're trying to, you know, this story that we're trying to tell here. So it sounds like you understood branding from a young age as well, even just from the shows, like you said you were putting on, you kind of got that concept. And even if you didn't think the music was good, you were rallying people together behind you.

So yeah, that combined with like an LVRN. Yeah, sounds deadly to me. Absolutely. So you were making YouTube videos, obviously, for these like talent shows early on, and uh I'm kind of curious. Like, now that your career's a lot more serious than it was at that time in your life, like which by the way, can it can we get uh talent shows at amusement parks in America? Can someone set that up here? Why is that a Canadian thing? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it sounds like some Canadian shit though, you know what I'm saying? I would go. Yeah, mate. would you yeah? Well, probably I don't know. I would find new somewhere. If Sad Boy was there, uh definitely but no, so like what what part of your, you know, artists change as things get more serious, like, right? Like this is a business now, like you're trying to make money, you're trying to feed family members, you're trying to like make something, you know, you know, for yourself. At that point, though, when it's just like talent shows and YouTube video submissions, like, is there any part of your like mindset at that point that you want to make sure you like hold on to even now that shit's getting serious, if that makes sense? I don't know if I'm gonna answer this right.

Like, so you mean like basically like if there's any part of like my mindset that like holds on to like that memories? The innocent, like just before it got serious. Like everyone's everyone's so fucking serious once their career starts to be at a certain point, you know? Hmm. I mean, I definitely don't think it's a situation where I feel it definitely feels more serious now, but I think it's also because I'm aware of like the sacrifices that were made. Yeah. Um, so like for example, like my mom like sold like our house, like our condo, and we moved into like a one bedroom, and it was just like me and my mom, like a tiny one bedroom in Toronto. It's like literally like living in New York, like to put in like it's like literally like a shoebox. Like it's so small. Did you have bunk beds? No, we would like alter who sleeps on the bed. Oh, yeah. Yeah, or like sometimes I'd be on bed, my mom would be on the couch. Like, that's just like what we did.

Um even like at one point, like we lived with my grandma, like I think it's just like, you know, recognizing like the sacrifices that were made and the fact that like people who like sacrifice a lot for me put themselves in like uncomfortable positions um just because they believed in me. So I think that's like I think that's where like the seriousness comes in because it's like, you know, more is happening, but it's just like it feels like pressure because it's like you don't want to fuck up, you know. Yeah, yeah. So I think that can kind of like fuck with my mind because I'm like, damn, I don't want to let anyone down. But I think like just staying true to myself and just putting like the work in is what's gonna help me win, you know. That's what that's what we realized doing this podcast. We just were inviting whoever the hell would come two years ago. And you know, I think we're good at what we do and we've come a long way, but the main differentiator between us and a hundred other podcasts is we just haven't quit. We just didn't stop doing it, and we've gotten a little better every week, and now we've been doing it, you know, 150 something episodes, and they're just at the peak, I think, and they're gonna keep getting better.

So even just not stopping what you're doing a lot of times, like without having to stress out too hard about it. That does so much. Honestly, you're just reminding me of like this moment when I was getting ready to like I think it was like my last year of high school, and I was in the car with my mom, and um we were like driving, and I was like to her, I was like, you know what's so crazy? Cause I've just kind of had like this like moment where I was like, think of everything. Because my mom said to me, She's like, I'm literally giving you to like your last year of high school to figure this shit out, or you're going to college or university. And I was like, damn. I kept telling my teachers, they'd be like, Oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, music, music, music. And they would look at me like I'm crazy. Like, it wasn't until like the last semester of high school people, like my teachers were like, okay, we actually believe you, like you can actually do this. Yeah. Um, because things didn't start happening for me until like my last semester of high school. Um, but I literally was like talking to my mom, and I kind of like was I felt I think it was the pressure because I knew I was like getting ready to graduate high school, and all my friends were talking about going to college and like what they want to do, but like mine was just like strictly music, and I didn't really know what that would look like or what I needed to do exactly, but I knew I just had to like keep doing my thing, and it was too late for me to be like, I'm not doing this.

Because now at this point, we go from like living in a house to like a one-bedroom apartment. Like there's no way you can turn to your mom now and be like, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, you know. Um, so I really said to her, I was like, damn, um, this is like, wait, fuck, I'm having a brain fart. I literally looked at my mom and I was like, it's literally too late for us to like be like, I'm not doing this anymore. And she kind of gave me like, you know, the courage to like keep going. And I think that was like the moment I was like, okay. And I think that was like the first time and the last time that I've ever even had like a thought to be like, what am I gonna do? Because like in her mind, it's just like you're gonna keep trying. And I think that was like a good thing for me. Cause then I went back to school that week and I was like, okay, I'm gonna go do music, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And everyone was just like, okay, we're gonna help you. Like my teacher's like, okay, we're gonna help you with this, this, this, this, this. So that felt really good.

I think that was like just a strange moment. You just kind of reminded me of that. Cause I'm like, that was a really bad time for me. Cause imagine, like, all your friends are getting ready to go to college, they're going to university, they're like picking out their schools, they're like bringing you to the school, they're like, I'm gonna go do this, this, this, this. Like, I heard this having they're having a party here. Like, I was never into those things, like ever. But like seeing my friends enjoy it, I'm like, damn, am I missing out on something? Like, am I like, you know? I think it's insane to think that you have to have your life figured out by 18 years old. I think by the time you're 27, like you do not have to have it figured out. He's 30, he hasn't nobody. I'm 31. I have no idea what I'm doing. So, like, yeah, I think that's just I think older generations kind of had to figure it out quicker. I think it's different now. You know, we have a lot more options. We can do YouTube full time. We don't have to go fight a war at 18 immediately. Like, yeah, it's different. Yeah, you know. No, I mean for me, I I think like it's so cool that you remember that like inflection point though. Like, you probably remember that shit like it was yesterday.

Like that car. ride. It had to feel good. Like, I don't even I don't remember where we are going, but I just remember like being in the car and we were making a left. You remember the drive. Wow. And we were driving. I think we were driving to my grandma's house because this is when we moved to like Weston, and we were driving towards my grandma's house. I don't know what we were doing. And I just remember I brought it up. Yeah. It's just so crazy. It's funny how memory works like that. You'll remember the most specific detail of something. No, but I feel like everyone that has had that, you know, entrepreneurial journey or like artist journey, whatever, like you know, it's it's it's kind of the same thing. It's like, dude, I remember the phone call we had where it was like we were about to quit. We were literally quitting. We were like, this shit is getting so fucking annoying. Like, just you know, we you know, we weren't seeing the views that we wanted, like it was tough getting like the guests that we wanted and like all this shit. And we were like, oh my god. I literally told him I was like, dude, we're we gotta stop doing the interviews.

Like this shit's trash. Like that was like this year. It was not That, the beginning of this year. Yeah. And I actually, and then since that point, I had a friend who deleted his Instagram when we were probably at like 2K followers or something. He called me yesterday and he was like, bro, what happened with the podcast? He's like, you guys have like hundreds and of thousands and millions of views now and like 15K on Instagram. So we've grown by like, you know, 10,000 percent. I don't know, like whatever, right? And so it's those points though where you're like so badly want to just give up or you don't know if this is working. You like feel like you're fucking beating your head against a brick wall and like doing the same thing over and over again and nothing's happening. So like we've seen, like he he told me now, he was like, dude, you're at the bottom of that exponential curve now where it's like it's just gonna shoot up. And I feel like you're kind of at that inflection point now too. But to get from like not knowing what the fuck you're doing and do you want to keep going, and your mom coming to you and be like, hey, you know, you gotta take this shit seriously, or else like let's get you to school type of shit. What did you actually do?

Because our audience is a lot of you know, independent artists that are trying to make it into music. And so I feel like what did you specifically start focusing on, right? That maybe started actually working. Was there like a few things that you really started doing or that you saw working well? Um, I would honestly say it was the consistency. Yeah. Cause my music sucked. I was going by Ebony. I didn't have like a brand. I didn't even know who I was as an artist or like even like as a human being, like, you know. Sure. And all I did was be consistent. Like I knew like every I think it was like every other Saturday, I had a show because I was just like open for whoever it was coming to Toronto. Um but how are you getting those opening gigs? From my YouTube covers. So like when I did like the contests, like I just kept putting on shows, and then it kind of just got to a point where like, you know, like big agencies would be like, okay, well, Doja Cat is coming to Toronto and we want Ebony to open for her or Tiana Taylor, but I wouldn't get paid. Like I wouldn't get paid.

I would do everything for free. Like I would make my costumes. Mind you, we were like broke, like no money, but like we would make our own costumes, like we would do like all these things, and like I'd put the show together. But it was just about consistency. Like I knew, like, okay, I'm gonna drop on SoundCloud like once a month. You know, um, I'm gonna take my own photos in my room like by myself, and that's gonna be my cover art. It was just about being consistency, and I think that's something that like I'm gonna be so real with you. Like, I fell off from at some point, and I've seen where like it kind of like you go from like this to like this without being consistent. Yeah, so um, yeah, like I think like when your music, if your music is bad, like if you're consistent, like people have no choice but to fuck with you realistically, because you stay in people's faces, right? It's sort of it sort of sorts itself out. Like people that like you are gonna keep engaging with your content and seeing the new song and seeing the new thing, and the people that don't are gonna move on, and you just make that hamster wheel move even faster. And you figure it out along the way, yeah.

Yeah, no, being consistent. That's another big thing. Like, it's like you figure everything out. Like, you're not gonna figure anything out by just sitting there and being like, I'm not gonna drop until like three months, like, because you're not gonna know, you know what I mean? And I feel like every single time I dropped, every single time I did something, I learned something new. Yes. Oh man, we posted content that has sucked, but we always learned something from it. Oh, at the same time that we wanted to to quit, right? Like, we had no idea who we were even fucking making any of this for. We were like, Yeah, no drawing. Who even listens to us fucking bozos right now? Like, who's out there? Like, who's gonna give a shit about this, right? And so I think that to your point, you don't know any of that until you do so much that you're like, huh? Like, why did they like this piece of content, this episode, in your case, this song, or like this look, whatever. And it's because you tried so much shit that finally you're like, huh, they like this, this, and this, those three things have this in common, or like this general theme amongst them, right? Like, maybe we should maybe we should fucking lean into that.

It's the it's the quantity breeds quality. Quality is subjective. You don't something that you think is quality, might not be quality to someone else, but you control quantity. That's a number. How many pieces of content did you put out? How many songs did you drop this year? How many shows did you do? So that's the one that when you have control over that, you take that by the horns. Yeah, you know what I mean? Keep going, bro. You got more? Spitting. Put on a beat. Oh my gosh. No, don't do that. Okay, so you know, your your upcoming uh tour with black is a euro run, right? Okay, how many dates is it? I don't know. Hmm. Several. It's a lot, it's a lot. Many countries. I think it starts February, ends in March. Okay. Yeah. Have you been to any of those cities on the tour? No, I was recently in London though. Okay.

I really love it. Yeah. So looking at the at the cities that you're going to, like, which one are you most excited to go to? Oh, damn. Can I look real quick? Sure. Let's check it out. What do we got? London. I feel like London, uh England has trash food, right? Let's be real. No. Trash food. Dude, all my artist friends were shitting on London. Let's hear why London's. so cool. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They got fish and chips. What else? Let me just say something. Yes. Nothing. Go ahead, sad boy. One thing I'll say. England food is trash. When I was going there, everyone kept saying, like, um, it's really bad. They eat beans for breakfast. Oh, yeah. I'm really excited for um. Where is it? Oh. I got some Jeopardy music for you. Damn. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm excited about all these places because I really like I love Europe. Like, I really just want to go because I feel like it just gives me it's like a fresh perspective, or what is it? What is it?

It's just like feels like me. Like, I feel like, you know, like what since like I was like young, like I always said, like, I want to move to like London or like somewhere in Europe. I borderline like thought you were British. A lot of people do. Yeah. Yeah. Or French, like you know, Canadian, French Canadian. But you know what's so crazy? She's not from Montreal, bro. Jeez, chill. it's so crazy because I always used to like talk to guys from like London, knowing that I could like never see them because I had like no money. Okay, now you have maybe at least I don't know. A little more meaningful. At least enough to go to London. Yeah, I don't know if you can make it back, but yeah. But like even now. Yeah. Okay, but let's talk about Skepta. Do we have to? Yes. She's she she wants to get the attention of Skepta. She made everyone in the crowd last night DM Skepta. Oh, then we're definitely talking about Skepta. that. Sad boy's looking for you. Here, so funny. see this camera right here? Just look into that.

Yeah, okay. Shoot your shot. This is your chance, all right. Talk to Skepta. Skepta is a big fan of the podcast. He watches every episode. He watches every fucking episode. Okay, he hasn't missed one. All right, so he'll be tuned in. So this is your chance. Shoot your shot. You're making me really nervous right now. All right. We won't listen. This is I'm listening. You can still hear. Jesus. I honestly like don't know what to say. Well, you better give it a shot. Um start with hey Skepta, maybe. Something like I don't know. Don't coach. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I know what I'm going to say. Oh, let's go. Right right in that camera. Mm-hmm. Pretend that's Skepta's beautiful eyes. Somebody go call up Skepta. Them no but look. See, like that was like a little promo. That means like stream where you at bay because it's about Skepta and everything's in that song. Yeah. Okay, yeah. I mean, is there anything else she needs to say other than like No, because honestly, I'm pretty sure he's like sick of me. He's always noticed.

Because I've been doing this since November. Like every single time I have a show and I perform Skepta. It's called Where You At Bay. But whenever I perform that song, I'm always like, Can you guys like tag Skepta on Instagram and let him know that Sad Boy's looking for him? And people would actually send me screenshots of like Skepta, like watching their story. And like every night on that Jesse Rears tour, there was probably like 10 stories. So imagine. Yeah, he's seen it. He's definitely seen it. I'm manifesting Skepta's on the remix to that song coming out in 2024. Oh shit. Yes. Let's go. Dude. That's actually a great idea. It's happening. That'd be so fire. We're gonna make a clip out of that too. So he'll see the clip. Oh my gosh. Oh my god. Um, so so what's what's one thing that people would be like most surprised to learn about Sad Boy? But I'm actually really shy. Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah.

That's that's definitely the one that you know, just looking at your page and looking at your even your music videos and shit, like you do not seem like a shy person. I'm really shy. Yeah. I I think that I also think like maybe um I'm really sensitive. Typical artist, shy and sensitive, typical artists. But this is the thing though, I'm not sensitive when it comes to my music. I'm sensitive when it comes to like my day in life, like day-to-day, like type shit. Like anything else, like whatever. Like, cause at the end of the day, like I'd look at everything, like I'm kind of like not like hardheaded, but like I'm also like open to like any feedback. So like anytime like someone says, you know, like you could have done this differently, or like maybe try this, like I'm open to hearing it because it's like you kind of have like my best interest, right? But when I unless they're just hating sometimes.

Unless you're just hating, like, but when it comes to that, I'm just like, mm-hmm and one air out the other. So you are able to kind of because at the shows, you kind of lock in on the people that aren't vibing with you, but you're able to kind of not the same, like on social media if someone leaves. If there's a hundred comments to say you're fire, yeah, and the 101st comment is a hater, you're kind of able to just block that out. Some people have trouble with that. I think like the only thing, there's two things. I think the one thing is when people will be like, why didn't you do a Caribbean vibe? Like, why aren't you speaking Patois? That's like another thing. And then when people talk about like my body, those are like the two things. Like when people be like, oh my god, you're so skinny. But then sometimes I'm like, whatever, but it's like if you catch me on like an off day where like I'm not in the mood, I'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? You might reply to one or two on it so because I'm like, that's shit's so crazy. Yeah. Negativity is loud. Negativity, it just speaks so loud for some reason. We all hear it way more. We'll skip over a hundred fire emojis from supporters, and we'll see that one dude saying something off.

But so if they bring up the IBTC, is that an issue? No, because I rep the IBTC. Okay, okay. So it's just the it's just the skinny. Yeah, it's just like because you know what it is. I feel like a lot of the times it's like when I be like getting those comments, it's more so like an irritation for me because it's like you're just doing anything. Because more times when I get those type of comments and like I go click the profile, it's someone that's not attractive that should not be saying anything. And they're sad in their lives, they're not happy, And it's also like guys that have tried DMing me and I just haven't responded. So it's like you're just doing anything, you know what I mean? And I think it's just more so like damn, like now you're just gonna go on here and like try to like call me out, but it's like you were just trying to talk to me. It's like yeah, so I think that's like the only thing, but I've like grown, like you know, at one point, like when I moved to Atlanta, I really want to get my body done. Like when I moved here, like what I want to get my boobs done and my butt done.

Whole thing, whole thing, yeah. But then I was just like, you know, like I'm kinda happy that like I didn't because like you know, like for like two years, I was like on and off. Like I kept going to like different doctors. I was like, uh I was spending so much money on like that first appointment just for them to look at me. consultations. This girl spent spent all her rent money on consultations with boob doctors, but then like every single time I would go, I'd walk away, like I'm not sure. Yeah, and you want to be sure about something like that, yeah. And I just like, you know, like I kind of just like learned to like, well, I didn't learn. I grew to love my body. Yeah. Wow. Henry, do you love yours? I love my body. Why are you gonna ask Henry that? Yeah, what the fuck, baby? I'm just making sure we're all here, Are you Happy with your face? I'm not. No, I'm thinking about seeing a guy about my face. Are there face doctors? Oh.

Because I need a referral. That's so jokes. Oh my gosh. Um, so I you know, I mentioned our our friend Dos Diaz, who's a mutual friend of ours. I love him. Yeah, I love him too. And I feel like, you know, he's a Grammy winning engineer. And so I just want to know for all the people out there that don't really understand what a good engineer does. Like, you've probably been in sessions with regular degular studio provides you with just the house engineer that is clocking in, clocking out, and then you've been in a studio session with someone who's got a fucking Grammy, right? So, for from your perspective, like what is the biggest difference that you see, right? Like out of those two characters. Okay, well, now I'm thinking like a bit differently because like now we're like really good friends, and I'd be telling him everything. So, like I'd be going to session with him, and it's just like fun. And like we kind of like he just like helps me he'll be like, Abs, like try hitting the note like this, or like try doing this, and like you know, like he's really, really, really patient and he's really helpful at the same time. Um, but I'm trying to think, like the first time I worked with him, like what made him so good.

Mmm, you know, like I'm gonna be so real with you. Like when it comes to like uh I think it was just like the feedback he gave. I think that was like a big thing for me because I'd be in sessions sometimes and I'm like, I don't know what's going on. My head will start hurting. I think it was like ADHD. like I'll be like, what are you like? What's happening? But with like um with him, he's just very much like, okay, like try this. I try doing it like this. And then like he just encourages me. He'll be like, Okay, you got it. Like, do it one more time. Okay, you got it. Do it one more time. And by the way, that is why we're called one more time, but that's where it comes from. Not from Dos Diaz, but just in general. But having to do it one more time. No, no, I mean, I think that's really important what you're saying about like the engineers and you know, and producers, because he's basically doing like vocal production at that point as well. Yeah, but like he's setting the vibe, and like he's making you, the artist, feel as comfortable as possible. And I feel like that's such an underrated skill.

And honestly, you can't really teach it to some degree. Some people just got it, and then some don't. I mean, some people are engineers because they sign up to be an engineer, and an engineer is really only being paid, you know, generally hourly to hit record and to follow instructions. So anyone that's doing something on top of that, it is like a form of production, and you don't see engineers getting, you know, publishing, they're not getting points on the record for that. So it is valuable to find. Yeah. Because if the engineer's not doing it, then you do need maybe the guy that made the beat or someone else to like some artists, I think can do it themselves, but most artists I think always benefit from having someone who is listening to every line, listening to every take, giving feedback, and you're kind of able to bounce that off and get the best take for each part and remembering how the song sounds as a whole, and just has that vision, you know, of the song. And what are we saying here? What's the message? Yeah, because like if you're just by yourself and you don't have any trusted, like creative input from anyone else, it's just gonna be like a feedback loop of your own thoughts of like either you think it's great and it's not, or the vice versa, you think it's bad and it's actually fire, you know what I mean? Like that's that's even what's worse.

Yeah, yeah. So I think that's the most important part is is the feedback and like the um the like patience and the encouragement that you're getting out of someone because you know, we do a lot of live streams where our our audience will submit music and you know we'll listen to it. Henry's an engineer producer, I'm just a fan that has a fucking opinion about you know people's songs. And I think the biggest thing that we hear is probably like them not getting the best take. Like, literally, that's oftentimes like the the only feedback we'll have on a song is like, hey, a cool record, you know, this, that, and the third, but like we don't feel like you got the best take, like vocally. And so I feel like for him challenging you to like try this, try it again, do it one more time, et cetera. Like, that's important. And you know it's and another thing too, like there's also artists out there too that don't want to hear what an engineer has to say. Yes, for sure. And I think what makes him so special is the fact that he's just like good energy, yeah. Like sometimes he don't even be saying anything, he just be a vibe, and it's just like makes you like feel good, you know.

Oh there's also a wrong way, there's a wrong way to say, like, hey, you could try that again, you know. You could be like, yo, that was terrible. Try it some other way, you know. You gotta be like it's just people's art, you gotta be like careful with how you, you know, word yourself when you're working on a record. So I think he's very good at wording it correctly. For sure. So for this question, pretend your momager is not in the room, okay? I'm nervous. You should be. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, I just think it's important for people that are out there considering like what type of manager to have on their team, right? Because you've had other managers in the past, right? Before manage manage your characters in the past, before you know, my, my Ma Dukes took over like the reins, I would say, right? So why did you make that decision to you know kind of go all in with mom as the momager? Because I feel like there's a there's a specific reason probably that you know you you've tried other people and it didn't work out, right? So, like what what didn't work out about the past ones and like you know well for starters, I think it was the fact that my mom sacrificed so much without even being my manager, and she was always in the picture.

So even when I had other managers, like my mom would be in the picture, and half the time or more times, like she'd be the one doing all the work. I'm gonna be so real with you. Shout out um and I learned in like my last management situation that you know a manager like for me is someone that like I could literally speak to like around the clock. There should never be like a time where it's like I'm sleeping, I can't talk to you right now. Like, let's talk in the morning, like 8 a.m. Like it was very much a situation where you know, around the clock, it was like sad boy, like okay, what do we need to do? I like constantly like you know, going back and forth about ideas, or like she would I'd wake up to messages from her, like, okay, I was thinking about this, and I think that was like a really big thing for me, and just seeing how um much she cared about it. Um, because again, it's like I also have another sibling.

I have a younger sister, but um, she was just so dedicated. And I've had managers where it's like, you know, they they manage other artists and like they're doing really well for themselves, or like, you know, they have a whole family, but I it's like about being a priority, you know? And I think communication and feeling like a priority is like a really big thing. And I felt like I got that in my mom, and I didn't really get that in other situations. I think that's everything. Yeah, I mean, we've talked we've talked about how the management situation excited. Yeah, just being invested and caring. Like, there's plenty of people who would sign you to make 20% off you just in case you blow up. That's comes a dime a dozen. There's not that many people who see what you are doing, hear the music, see the brand, and be like, oh my god, like I believe in this so much. I want this to happen. And clearly you've found that, I think, in this situation more than any other. Yeah, I think that's really important. And I think it's just um, I think any situation you go into, I think you should be thinking like that.

Yeah. But how hard is it to like shut off work? Like, yeah, are you guys ever just mom and daughter? Like, yeah, exactly. It's like you guys are going like shopping or to a movie or something, and it's like, yeah, so like how should we do this rollout? Rollout For the singles coming up, Oh my God. Tour's coming up. You know, it's so crazy. Like, did you call the TM? Yeah, like well, I still live at home, and it'd be getting on my nerves when like my mom be like walking in the room at like 7 a.m. Like, Ebony, I got this email, and I'm just like, can you like wait until I wake up? Like, you know, can I have fucking coffee first? mom? I haven't had my coffee, yet. God damn it. Um, there are definitely moments too where it's like I'm out for 10 and I'm like, I just don't want to hear about music right now. Yeah. Um, but again, like those are days where it's just like I'm having off days, and she also respects it, but we still talk about it. Um she respects it, but we still talk about it. It's just to be honest with you, I feel like the bond I have though with my mom is just so special though, because it's like that's like my best friend.

So it's not even really like, you know, it doesn't really feel like there's definitely certain situations where I'm like, damn, maybe I shouldn't have swore because this is my mom. But like there's situations where I'm like, oh my god, this is actually like my mom. But then more times I'm coming to her about like every single thing that happens in my life. Every single thing, like my mom and my sister. So I think like I'm really lucky in that sense, because it doesn't feel like I need to shut anything off, or I need to like, you know, watch what I say, or do certain things. Yeah, yeah. No, I I think the biggest takeaway is that like, you know, having someone who's gonna be prioritizing you and like wanting this, you know, almost as bad as you want it for yourself, right? Like, that's so important. Like, because some people are looking for a manager that's got the best connections and they've been in the industry for 30 fucking years, whatever, right? They've got platinum records this, platinum records that.

But honestly, you really like just need someone who actually gives a flying fuck enough to like, Yeah, enough to just put in all the work that it takes because like you can find someone who has the connections and like they can help out, but like day to day, like hearing what you're going through as a person and how that's impacting your career and like your professional artistry, right? Like, that's someone you need. Yeah. More so than like the plugged up. I don't know, in my opinion. No facts. Plugged up managers are like slightly overrated, in my opinion. But well, they're still valuable for but for different reasons. Yeah. I just think you can't just have them. Right. You can borderline just have the hardworking one. Yeah, I agree. To them figure out how to get the connections right versus you can't just have the connected one that doesn't actually think about you really ever. You know? Yeah. That's not gonna work. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I feel like what what's the Caribbean uh influence? Like is that family?

Yeah. Okay. All right, so you got a Caribbean back? Because I saw you were in Jamaica recording. Was that like with family? You did recently. Oh, yeah. I did. You're sad boy. Oh, yeah. We have to know. We have to know. Yeah, Nardwuar about this shit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm Jamaican and Tegan. Was that were you in Jamaica strictly to record, or were you also like double okay? I went to Jamaica to record. How does like a recording session in Jamaica differ from like your usual Atlanta or Toronto vibes? A lot of rum punch. Okay. Hell yeah. A lot of rum punch. Versus here, maybe it's like Hennessy or something. Whiskey. I actually don't drink in my sessions. I don't drink or smoke. Even like when I perform, I'm sober. Oh. Yep. But when you listen back at the end of the day, maybe. Um in Jamaica, I think I just it's just a vibe. You're in Jamaica. Yeah.

Okay. How can you not have a rum punch? You know, I don't know. I definitely would. Yeah. Or 10. You know? Yeah. Oh man. So so recording somewhere else though, like, do you feel like you get like a different end result at all? You know what's so interesting? I think, well, my background is Jamaican and Antiguan. And both my grandparents are like heavy Caribbeans. And I just feel even being in Toronto, I feel like Toronto's like a melting pot of like people like from all over the world. So like you just feel like, you know, no shade, but like, and then like you guys don't even have good like Jamaican restaurants, like you know what I mean? Like every Jamaican restaurant you go to in Toronto is gonna be fire. Like, because like the culture is just so heavy, you know. It's just so interesting because like even growing up in like a Caribbean household, I felt like being in Jamaica kind of like felt like home in a sense. Oh wow, that kind of feels like crazy to say.

So there's something deep rooted in you, maybe that just felt right. Like it just felt good, like and it felt like home. Like it felt like you know, like I wake up and I'm like, okay, I know I'm gonna have like Ackee and saltfish for breakfast. Like that's what I want. Or for lunch, I know I want this, or like, you know, like it just felt like home. Like even speaking to the people at the studio, like it just felt so familiar. So it really kind of was like it was peaceful. Yeah, it was really peaceful. I liked it. Yeah, I think that's good for the creative environment for sure. Oh, yeah. You need peace. Absolutely. No, I mean, for me, I feel like uh I will say maybe we don't have the best Jamaican spots, but like we do have some good wing spots here in Atlanta. So, like you guys do. Yeah, it's true. So sorry we don't have the Jamaican spots, and both are better than all the food in London combined, so anyway, sad boy. We have entered a final segment of the podcast. Oh shit. Henry. Are we here? Where are we at?

I'm nervous. You should be, yeah. This is the part where you get nervous about it. What is really going on? Yeah, you're fucked. Mm-hmm. This is the rapid fire rampage. Why did you have to do it in that voice? So what? Exactly. It's called the Rapid Fire Rampage. There's gonna be three parts to it. Um I'll explain them as we go. We're just gonna start off with some short answer questions. Is this like a game? Sure, yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm scared. This is everyone's favorite part. If this is something where like I need to think fast, Yes. It is. Absolutely. I'm losing. That's why I said that's why I said you're fucked. There's no right or wrong answer. It's just how fast you answer, really, is the only key. You can't say anything wrong. There's some that are more right than others, though, wouldn't you say? Opinion wise. I mean, I'm just saying. Okay, let's get it started here. Just saying. Starting with. That scream is crazy. It's wild. He says rampage, because that's what this is. Rampage. Sad boy, what is your spirit animal and why? I've never even thought of that.

Well, now you have to think of it. Throw one out there. My spirit animal. Mm-hmm. Mm. I would say a cheetah. Ooh. Any reason why? I feel like they're quiet and they're sexy. Yeah, there you go. Very good. They are those things. Who is an artist that you secretly listen to? Never told anyone, but you you jam. Secretly listen to? Mm-hmm. Baby Sosa. Ooh. What do you want to accomplish before you retire? Everything. Wow. Not one stone unturned, Henry. Cryptic, yeah, kind of the answer. We'll take it. Um what do the videos on your IG Explorer look like right now? Animals. Ooh. Cheetahs. Some cheetahs? What other animals were coming? No, it's like dogs, cats, yeah. Monkeys.

You're on the pet pet ground. I really love animals. Yeah. So this my spirit animal question was pretty good. I really love animals. Cool. Sounds good. When's the last time that you did something for the first time? Hmm. Ooh. Crazy one. The last time that I did something for the first time. That sounds like a riddle. The last time that I did something for the first time. It's deep. I got good questions. Okay, chill out. Um the last time that I did something for the first time, maybe when I hid my vape from my mom. Ooh. Damn, I did that a few times too. That's a good one. And my mom's not even my manager. This is called ideal audio. We're gonna craft the perfect song. You're gonna enter the perfect song. You can have any artists, any producers, any writers, alive or dead. What is your perfect song? My perfect song. Like, is it a song that like already out that I feel like is like perfect?

No, you get to make the song. You're matching together like who's on it? Any any number of people to make like, you know, like Michael Jackson and Kanye West. Don't. Don't. Damn. don't coach her. bro. Can I say that? Someone said that, I think last episode. Took it from Trey tracks, I think. Making the perfect song. Mm-hmm. Rihanna and Prince. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. That's a good one. Are you on there? Featuring Sad Boy, right? Featuring Sad Boy. Yeah, I think. Produced by Timbaland. Produced by and Quincy Jones. 1985. Ooh, yeah, okay. Stop giving your answers. This isn't fucking for you, bro. This is the Sad Boy interview. This section doesn't involve you at all. So you we can I can just turn your mic off right now. Actually, I have control of that over here. So what the fuck? How's it feel now? Is this thing on? Okay, we're moving on to the this or that portion. So I'm just gonna give you two choices. You just gotta pick one. Here we go.

Starting with Toronto or Atlanta? Toronto. Hooks or verses. Hooks. Drums or melodies? Melodies. Drums or flats. Oh fuck. I was like, what type of music thing is that? You're talking about wings. Flats. Yes. God damn it. Give me my mic back, bro. If you promise to use it, I promise. Turn your mic back on. I'm back, folks. Don't worry. Tattoos or piercings? Tattoos. Oh, both. Both of them. Tattoos. Tattoos. Gotta pick one. Go to outer space or an underwater city. Outer space. I am not going to know underwater city. Hot guy or rich guy. Hot guy or rich guy? Honestly, I kind of like ugly guys. So I'll just go with Rich Guy.

Perfect. I don't even. Ben, shut up. Yeah. I turned your mic back on so you would behave. We can't unpack that right now. Yeah. Sad boy, I have a magic coin. Okay. I flip it. If it's heads, your next release goes platinum. If it's tails, you go blind in one eye. Do you flip the coin? I don't flip the coin. Don't flip the coin. Need that vision. She's risk averse. She's gonna earn that platinum record. She ain't doing it all. old fashioned way. Love it. And final question is become a full-time country artist or leave the music industry. Country artists. I love country music. Let's go. Everyone's loving country these days. Country's coming up. Country's making a comeback, bro. It is. It's kind of sick. God. All right, we're moving into the final section. It is the word association. This is where you have to think the fastest and respond the quickest. Oh my god. I'm gonna say one word, and you just give me the first word right back. This is like the shit that I'm bad at. Perfect. This is gonna be the best section.

I hope you go viral for it. Oh fuck my thought. First word. Worst rapid fire rampage of all time. I have good high hopes. Starting with R&B. Summer Walker. Marriage. Skepta. See? Yeah. Great. There we go. Purple. Candy. Pimple. Ew. Pimpin. No thanks. I'll get off the pee thing. Bro, what the fuck is this alliteration? Pimpin' up like moving on. Pimple to pimpin' to. I'm just supposed to say random words, right? First word you think of. Okay. No, no wrong answers. X. Hate him. Lawyer. I don't know. Butterfly. And love. Lil.

Daddy. Lil Daddy. TikTok. TikTok. That's what I have to say. Just mm. Mm-hmm. Sad. Boy. Let's go. She's like, this is too obvious. I thought. I'm not falling for this one, Henry. No, no, no. I thought you had like this like voice thing that said sad boy. So like I was waiting for it. The custom sound effect. We should do that. Damn. We're not that. I thought you guys were gonna have like one that said boy. No, it's just a good thing. So I was just like waiting. I was like, is he gonna press it? I'm like, oh, me. Let's tell our producer to do that next time. Yeah, seriously. Okay, yeah, we'll take a note. Yeah, absolutely. No, it's being recorded. Okay, we're good. we'll send him the audio. All right, this is this has been your favorite crybaby. This has been sad boy. Yes. You did it. I know. You got through it. We didn't know if you had it in you to, you know, talk to people for an extended period of time.

I wasn't that bad. You were great. You were great. It was fun. Yes. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you for coming. As always. Please like, comment, and subscribe. Boom. Drop us a review if you're listening to this on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, any other podcast platform. Boom. We're here every fucking week. Boom. Henry, until next week, what are we doing? We're getting out of here. Getting the fuck out of here. Appreciate you. Thanks, guys.