James Worthy on Grammy Nomination with Justin Bieber, Going From Producer to Artist and More -

When you're by yourself and you don't really have direction, it's hard to know where to go. You don't really know who to reach out to or who to talk to, or the things to do, the type of music you need to be making, or just even having confidence. The One More Time Music Podcast. Genuine conversations with genuine people about music. Hosted by Henry with a three and playback Ben. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. One More Time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. One more time. We're in season two, allegedly. Allegedly season two. I don't know if we're doing seasons. But that we're not. But I'm your host, Playback Ben, still here every week with my co-host, Henry with a three, aka the trap Jack Black. Trap Jack Black. Who do we got in the hot seat today, my friend? That's a good one, eh? Thank you, thank you. Welcoming in on episode 54 of the One More Time Podcast, sports commentator, seven time NBA playoff MVP, legendary Los Angeles Lakers. It's James Worthy.

What's up, man? It's the wrong James Worthy. The what? It says James Worthy on his shirt. What do you mean? This is James Worthy. Oh, God. It's all good, man. It's all good. Well, who is it then, Ben? It's still James Worthy, folks. But it is legendary producer, songwriter, artist, actor. Yeah. Who? As well. We got the the first James Worthy, we'll call it. James Worthy. Right. Right. OG James Worthy. The OG. James, appreciate you coming on, man. Thanks for coming on. Oh, man, Man, thank you guys, man. Yes. You guys have been doing great. Appreciate it. We appreciate that. Yeah. For those that don't know, he's uh friends with Ashley Ashley, former guest of the podcast. Shout out to her. Always. Yeah, man. It's the homie. Yep, yep. Really, really great episode with her. So hopefully this, you know. Yeah. There's a lot to live up to. Right. Oh, yeah, man. I watched her episode. I'm like, I'm I'm coming for you, man. Okay. I'm coming for you. That's what we like. Good shit. I gotta wind you up. Friendly competition never hurt anybody.

So your most recent drop as an artist. Yeah. See it my way. Yes. With legendary house artist. Robin. S. Robin S. Robin S. Shout out Robin S. You might know her from, I don't know. I think I checked the YouTube video alone. It had like 60 million views for Show Me Love. I'm arguably showing me Love is the biggest house dance song of all time. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Nuts. And that's incredible that you got to work with her. You know what's so crazy? She called me last night. Wow. Shout out Robin S. If you're ever in Atlanta, come on, come on down. I'd love to have her on the show. That'd be good. She called me last night before she went to bed because we we talk every week. Really? She's she's like family. How did that relationship even start? You know, I we we met at a show years ago. It was it was some uh concert that we met backstage um at. And I just came up to her. I'm like, hey man, I'm a huge fan. You know, I love house music, I love dance music, and she's one of my favorite house dance artists. So I'm like, man, I would love to do something with you.

And at the time she wasn't working with uh many producers. So I'm like, you know, let's just see what we can do. So she came to my studio and we've been tight ever since. Just like that, just shooting your shot. You know what I mean? Just standard. And starting off from a fan perspective. Some people in this game get get too big headed or whatever the fuck it is, that sometimes I don't feel like we hear enough stories like that where like you approach someone purely from like a yo, I'm a fan. Yeah. I mean, you know, my thing is like I'm just I I always want to work with people that I admire. You know what I mean? Whether if I have enough clout attention fame, whatever you want to call it, like I just love music, you know what I mean. So if if they're not on my resume or my repertoire, I want them there. Yes. You know, so that was just one of those things. Yeah, that's that's super dope. So that record that y'all did together most recently. I, you know, I think you had produced some other shit for her in the past, right? You know, so post meeting her, obviously and locking in.

Yeah. But this most recent recent record, I mean, you guys blended obviously like RB with you know, house dance music. I mean, there's something about like blending of genres. I love it. It's the way you talked about it in another interview. Shout out our homies Tribe Called Quest. Oh, yeah. The Midnight Marauders, you talked about how they did it so perfectly, blending jazz elements Absolutely. with hip hop, which like, yeah, sampling jazz had like, you know, it was kind of happening, but like they took it to a different level. I mean, it was new. Like at that time, it would no one ever did it before, you know what I mean? So it was it was like new territory. Yeah. And uh, you know, shout out to Q tip, man. Q Tip is one of my favorite producers of all time. And he had the foresight, you know what I mean? Uh and it was tons of other great producers. I mean, you know, you had Nile Rodgers. you had Jay Dilla, um Love Jay Dilla. I mean, it was tons, you know. But he was just one of those guys who were like, Tribe was already influential, you know what I mean, in their sound. But you as soon as that that low end theory came out, it was it was over.

It was over. It was over, man. I mean, I I was roommates with a kid from New York in college, and when he opened my mind to Tribe and Gangstar and fucking Wu Tang, and just I mean, oh god, it was it was a beautiful thing. Classic. Because, you know, because I grew up in Atlanta, so all I knew was Jeezy, Luda, you know, Three 6 Mafia, freaking Outkast, you know, which obviously all great artists love Southern rap too. But like hearing that New York sound where hip-hop was born. And you know what's so interesting, man, is like so. I'm from New York. I'm I'm from up north, but I've been so blessed and privy to work with so many types of artists super young. So it's not just the hip hop from up north, but down south artists, uh UK artist, um, you know, artists from Florida, the Bay Area, like just all around. So you got a good blend early. on. It was a really, really big blend in the beginning. So that's kind of how I started to become more broad in the genre. You know what I mean?

So it was just like I my foresight was like, I never want to be put in the box. Never. Like, I don't want to be that guy. For sure. So, who do you think's doing it well in today's climate, like that genre blending? Because I can kind of think of some examples like how hip hop's really leaning into like rock. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of guitar loops, and there's a lot of kind of that punk, you know, rap shit going on. I mean, who do you see maybe from a producer and or artist perspective really blending genres well today? Is there anyone that comes to mind? Um, I know The Weeknd does that very well. Um, you know, sometimes, well, in the past, his music was more of a dark style, but still blending things. Yeah, I think now more than ever, he's blended a lot. Yeah with that with the new album he just put out, the Dawn FM. Dawn FM's awesome. So good. It's incredible. but besides him, um Frank Ocean does that a lot. Yeah.

John Legend. let me see. Of course, Yeah. Yeah, sure. Sure. For sure. There's there's a lot of artists. Um it's just so many to so many of the names. Yeah, yeah. No, music, I feel like it is so true. You know, the reason why that was so, I guess, incredible at that time was because genres were very siloed. Yeah, yeah. You know? You had to do one thing in one lane and that's it. There were no Drake's doing dance hall, RB and rap shit. Like, yeah. They wouldn't know what the fuck to do with that. And if you tried to do it, the label would either block it or they're just not putting it out. Yeah. Because they didn't know what to do with it. Facts. And that just exists. I I'm thankful that it exists so I love it. So less now. And and and sometimes it's like I get kind of frustrated with people when they don't want to see change. Because it's it's like, well, how much of the same things do you want to hear or or see or watch or whatever? Like it's already been done.

Like we have to could continue to be creative. No, it's interesting though, because some people do want what they want, and they maybe want that same old shit. And it's crazy. But you clearly have this like very open mind. and fluid. I can't recreate something. Like it, I always have to forward think. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like It's kind of like like Kanye, like you always hear the thing of, oh, we want the college dropout. We want late registration and graduation. I'm like, he there's no way possible to recreate College Dropout. Right. Yeah. There's no way. It's just like me. There's no way that I could recreate my first projects. Yeah. That's just was a time that I was just in. Yeah. I'm kind of conflicted on that because there are artists who I super respect and admire for their ability to continuously evolve and keep going and trying things. But you know, there's situations in my life where I just maybe I just want to hear young Dolph rapping on a hard, you know, Memphis beat. And I don't need him to do anything different to serve like his purpose for me as a listener. So I'm kind of in the middle there.

It's an interesting topic. It's interesting for sure. For sure. So born in Queens, you talked about in another interview that it was almost like you were destined to do music. You talked about how you were like always surrounded by music at a young age, whatever. But honestly, I didn't really hear many examples. Can you provide us like what does that mean? Like, were your parents just playing it as listeners? Did you have musicians in the family? Like tell us about that exposure. So I never came from a musical family. Sure. Um, or really a musical background. It was just more of me just being exposed to different people and just different situations, just being around. So, like what at school or some shit? like school. Um where I was living at was off of um uh Linden Boulevard in Queens, New York. So that was like five, ten minutes away from um Jamaica Avenue. Yeah, and I was always on the avenue, and there's tons of things that's going on over there musically and and creatively. So everybody was over there from Jam Master Jay to Slick Rick to Rick the Ruler, man. everybody, you know.

So I had a chance to really re really meet a lot of people. And um actually my dad uh uh did a lot of uh security work for a lot of celebrities. Okay, so that's kind of how I I met people through that too. And um I was just one of those kids, I was like almost a nerdy kind of kid. Like I was just curious about art, yeah. And and just different things. So music was just one of those things, and always had the music playing in my household, yeah. Uh different styles. So that was a factor. And then once I was like, man, I I just love music. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go to a record store and and start buying CDs and vinyls, right? Remember those? Remember record stores? Remember those days? Those things that are in museums now. Right. Unfortunately. That's crazy. Yeah. So man, I remember I was going to this record store every weekend. And I would buy a new album every weekend. A new vinyl, a new album.

And I would read the credits. I would read the instruments that was used, the the songwriters, the producers, the musicians, everything. That's kind of becoming a theme on the show. Like reading the credits and Yeah, well, yeah, this producer too, his dad is Neil Pogue, who's legendary, you know, mixed engineer. And same shit. He was like, he was doing it because he wanted to find out where his dad's name was on the credits. That's kind of fly though. Yeah. So he'd try and find Neil Pogue, you know, buried in the fucking liner notes, of course, because shout out mixed engineers, but y'all don't get much love in comparison. Yeah, trust me. I yeah. But so it's it's cool that you had that experience too. That like that fascinated you. Yeah, that was it was super cool. And then once the store started going away, I was just like, man, it was it was it was a wrap. Damn. Yeah. So so what was your first, I guess, you know, foray into being a creative though? Because you were clearly like soaking it up, but like, you know what I mean?

So so at that point when I was pretty much um being a purist. Yeah, um, I was songwriting. So this was like age, like, well, at this point when I started songwriting, it was like age 13. But before I even got into the songwriting, I had a chance to meet my idol. Who is Yep. Drum roll please? And that idol was Michael Jackson. Wow. And is that what like really just even meeting him, like really put the battery in your back? That was definitely the battery. Because I was like a Michael fanatic. Just obsessed with Thriller. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's the greatest of all time. Yeah. You know, King of Pop. King of Pop. And, you know, just, you know, not many people can meet their idols. Right. No. You know? Not and let alone someone trying to be in music. You know, that's that's like a once-in-a-lifetime situation most times.

So I had a chance to do it. And that really, really put the battery in my back. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this is like a sign. So let me really take this seriously. So after that, it was just kind of years of just like developing and you know, trying to figure things out. And then once I started really honing in on the songwriting, um, then the production aspect came. Okay, so it was writing songs first. Yeah. What were you doing with the songs though? You know, because people out there don't yeah, because like P, you know, people out there maybe that are aspiring songwriters, they probably don't even know where to start. So like Yeah, it was it wasn't much in the beginning. It's just just trying to get my my skills together as far as putting things together song-wise. Were you recording the songs? Um here and there I was kind of demoing it because you know, I kind of kind of realized that I had a voice. So I'm like, okay, I want to, you know, uh develop that too. So I was like, all right, well, I'm good with with words and and you know, structuring the songs along with the production. Um, so I'm like, okay, well, let me just start putting these these words together on actual record.

Right. And then it turned into the demos, and then, you know, just slowly sending them out and seeing what people thought about it, and you know, get feedback, and then just start climbing up that ladder. And then you realized you needed more beats, so you know I just can start making some beats. So then I started collabing with a lot of people, You know, so once I started collabing, then I started getting better and better and learning new techniques and learning new uh ways of using software and and even analog gear, and you know, just learning the technical aspects. And this is all still in New York, right? At this point, yes, this was still in New York. Um, I didn't really step out until probably age, I want to say 16, 17. And then after that, it was it was go time. And so, what were some of the things that were happening that made it real for you, right? Because there's some people in high school at 16 years old making music now, right? But for you, were there moments that were happening, either people you were linking up with or like things that started to like you know happen for you that made it like, oh shit.

Like I I can I can do this. Get in some studio session you weren't supposed to be in. It was, It was a lot of studios that like I got in that I probably shouldn't have been in, but a lot of people thought that I was older. Because yeah, you do have this mature. thing going on. like they thought I was older than when I was. So that's part of the reason. And then I was just cool with people. Like I just knew a lot of people. So it was just like, it was just like, ah, he's good. Come on in. Yeah, but like how are you networking at that point? Just building relationships. Like, like I would just be around um other prominent people and just meeting their people, and then just like building the relationships, and then, you know, whenever it was just ironic, like things would just pop up, and I'm just like seeing these people again, or I could just use the name or whatever, just to get into the space, you know, it's pretty cool. But um how much do you think you'd attribute to being in the right place at the right time sometimes? Like 80%.

Like so much, right? We literally talked about that recently too. And it's, it's like it's like who you know, a little bit of luck and a little bit of finesse. Sure. And a tiny sprinkle of talent. Yeah, and a little bit of talent. You gotta be like okay at the end of the day. You have to be like all right. Just like in the beginning, like you get you just gotta get in the door. Yeah, like that's that's the whole thing is getting in the door. Because it's like it's it's never gonna be the the introduction is most likely not gonna be about the talent. It's just gonna be about okay, you getting in the door, how did you get in here? Okay, then once you got in here, okay, what do you do? It's people skills too. It's so major. How do you handle people skills? How do you meet people? How do you follow up with people? Yeah, are you asking them for shit right off the rip? You know, or are you offering up your stuff? And that's the problem that people have is they I think they ask for things too early. Yes, or they expect things too early.

Yes, instead of actually building the relationship to like let it flourish, and then like once you build the right rapport, then you're like, okay, yeah, we're we're cool. Like, hey man, you know, think we could do this, yeah. You know, just start building it up. Yeah. Was there a time that you kind of can point back to that was that like tipping point of like from just trying to make shit shake to like, okay, cool, shit, you know, shit's kind of moving now, or was it too many things that kind of work together? It was it was so many things at one time, but like I think um when I started like getting in more industry circles, I think this is when social media started like rumbling a little, a little bit more. Like we had the MySpace and all that, but like I remember Twitter had first came came out around that time, um, and and a couple other sites, but I think when that happened, like especially Twitter, it it it kind of gave more accessibility to me to reach out to to industry people, so like executive, like ARs, other artists, stuff like that. So I'm like sending beat packs out to people, they're giving me their emails, their numbers, you know, stuff like that.

So you were early on that game. Yeah, yeah, I was definitely early on that game before they were all getting flooded with beat packs like they probably are now. Oh man, yeah, it was crazy. Oh, I mean, I I've heard so many cool stories about like Twitter DMs that have flourished into amazing relationships. Yeah, that was for real. That was for real. Yeah. So yeah, so you were really. leveraging that. I was definitely on that wave for sure. No, definitely. So, you know, at what point do you move to Atlanta? So uh I moved to Atlanta when I was like about to turn 18. And I remember um I had met, well, I met a lot of people when I when I came to Atlanta. And I was always back and forth anyway, from New York to Atlanta because I had family out here already and different people. But um when I came, I was meeting a lot of different producers, songwriters, engineers, um ARs, right? Just just kind of being around the mix, you know, being invited to uh events and stuff like that, networking stuff. And then um I met this guy uh from Houston.

He was a producer in Houston, and he worked with like all the Houston artists like Mike Jones and Slim Thug, Paul Wall. And uh love that whole thing. Yeah, like that whole Swisher House era. Chopped and Screwed. Yeah, chopped and screwed. Like he was he was that guy with with all that. So he pretty much like I introduced myself to him when we met, and and the funny part about it was my next door neighbor was um his sister. Which was the crazy part. So like she kind of hooked us up, and um he kind of took me under his wing, you know, just kind of showed me a lot of different things just about production and and just song making. And um, he gave me an opportunity to work with him alongside uh some of the other artists that he was working with in Houston. And that's kind of how I started climbing up the ladder a little bit, you know, more more in the in the industry realm. Yeah.

Yeah. How important is a mentor like that? Very important, man. Super important. Because it's like when you're by yourself and you don't really have direction, it's it's hard to know where to go. You know what I mean? Like you don't really know who to reach out to or who to talk to or the things to do, the type of music you need to be making, or just even having confidence or or just having the foresight of this this is gonna work. Do you think you can have mentors that maybe you aren't in direct contact with, maybe you just keep up with their social media, or do you think there's it's important to have be able to have a dialogue and maybe see them physically? A dialogue is always great. Yeah, um, you know, sometimes physical might might not always be on the table, but just to have you know, phone calls or you know, FaceTime, whatever it is, yeah, that's important because you know, having someone that actually understands what you do, you know, what your plans are, where you want to take things, that's important. Yeah.

And then just checking in on progress even. Yeah, just checking in and just having somebody to talk to, you know, not even just about music, but just life, right? And and their experiences, right? You know, that's I think that's super important. Yeah, I mean, because this shit as many people want to try and sell you on like a music business course, like this shit is like tribal knowledge, a lot of it. I mean, yeah, having someone that can help kind of like nudge you in the right direction or like bounce ideas off of even. I uh, you know, I mean, it's gotta be huge. Super huge. And and I think one of the biggest things that helped me along my journey was I was never stagnant. And and I I always learned from other people. Like, like whenever I saw like my peers or or someone that um did something wrong or they took an L or they had wins, you know what I mean? Like I learned from all of it. I'm like, okay, well, that's something that I don't need to do. Right. This is the things that I do need to do.

Let me let me follow their journey, let me follow their their blueprint, not to emulate, but just to, you know, inspire myself to to create my own. Yeah. Yeah. So you're definitely like a student. Yeah, I was definitely a student. And I'm still a student. Yeah, like gotta be forever. Always learning. We're always learning. Like I always tell people this there's always something new to learn. You know what I mean? Cause because life is always something new. And especially the industry. The industry changes to me, the industry changes every week. It does. And it's still not even like caught up to where it should be. Yeah, man. It's it's crazy. Yeah, I mean, we had Rico Brooks on here. Um, you know, legendary producer manager, works with Sunny Digital, had worked with Metro and Southside, you know, for a period of time. Young Jock and Gorilla Zoe back in the day, managing artists. Um, and he's been in this game for a while. Yeah. Um, you know, he's he's definitely older than me. I don't want to date him, but at the same time, you know, he's been doing this shit for a little while, and he's just obsessed with learning. Yeah, obsessed with you now.

You gotta be because there's no forward movement moving if you're not. Yeah. Similar to how your music, you want it to keep evolving, you're learning new tech musical techniques. I'm evolving every day. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, like I look back when so just to give you the backstory, I don't know if you guys knew this, but so I used to be in a group, right? Boy band. No, it wasn't a boy band. It was is it was just two members, uh, myself and another guy. Okay. Um, I was a singer of the group and he was a rapper of the group. Okay. Well, yeah, was that King's X too? or whatever? King's X too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, when we did that, it was like kind of random. Like, it was a random thing. Like, that's a cool, like, is there are there any groups where it's a singer and a rapper? Like, let's see, like that's so simple, but it's a regular duo. No, it's but I feel like it's not been done. It's like two rappers or two singers. A singer and a rapper? Yeah, I don't know. I've never heard of that before. That's like genius. No, it was it was either like you know, you know, B2K or like yeah, exactly. Wow. Outkast. I didn't even think about that. The members are always do the same shit.

But let's hear how it worked out first before we recommend you guys go do this. He's like, Yeah, well, I was in this group of rapper and a singer. So we did the so we did the group. This is 2017. Okay, yeah, yeah. So we did the group thing. Um, it wasn't planned, it wasn't something that I was like, I was jumping to do. Like, literally, like, I was working on his project at the time because he was his own artist. And one day he was like, hey man, you know, do you think you could just demo this hook for me for the song that I'm working on? I'm like, sure. So I did the hook, and he was like, Man, this this is fire. Like, he's like, You got pipes, bro. Yeah, man, like you got it. We're going to keep this. We're releasing it, we're gonna keep this right now. I'm like, all right, whatever. So then that turned into us doing more songs, right? So I'm yeah, I'm still not in artist mode yet. No, right? So the more we're doing songs, the more he's like, okay, maybe we should do a whole project or something. I'm like, all right, I mean, so what do you what are you saying?

He was like, maybe we just, you know, turn into a group. Like, you're like, this escalated quickly. Yeah, I was just doing a demo. Yeah, no, no, he was just making a beat. Yeah, yeah, we're just doing doing joints, and then he didn't even want to do the demo yet. But you know what the the ironic part about it was it was so many industry people telling me that I should be an artist. Okay, so you had that like in the back of your mind. Yeah, it was still it was a thought, but it just wasn't like had you brushed it off a bunch, or like no, I just it just didn't come to fruition yet. Okay, right. Okay, so I'm like, okay, you know, uh I'll try it, right? Sure. So so we tried it, we did a bunch of records, we settled on one, which was called Wine for Me. This was the first single that we put out. And literally, that song, like just kind of like took off and it like it debuted at number 10 on Billboard. Wow. Number 10.

That's a takeoff. First time I was ever on a song, period, yeah, as an artist. Yeah. Set the bar high. And I'm like, and usually when that happens, like, because it that's hard to do. Yeah. And I think when it happened, people were like happy and surprised, but confused in a way. Because they're like, where did this come from? Yeah. And then how the hell did y'all get number 10? Well, how did how did you? Like, where did where were these listeners coming from? So a lot of it came from um sales, of course. And um a lot of it came from us doing shows and just moving around a lot. Yeah. Like it was just like we were like doing physical copies, uh, of course, digital sales. So all of that accumulated. Damn. Yeah. And and so you do that, and then that does it doesn't work out long term, obviously. You're not still in the group.

Yeah, so so we broke the group off. Um there's a lot of personal stuff, man, like really petty stuff, to be honest. Oh, we've talked about groups, yeah. Yeah, they on paper, great. Y'all creatives, it's tough. It really is, man, because you know, you're dealing with different personalities and egos and different things that you got going on in each other. And different camps, different managers or different people opinions, yeah, you know, just stuff, yeah, you know, so I that had to a lot to do with it. So um, and you know, we're still great friends to this uh to this day, but um, you know, we broke it up, and and once we did that, that's when I went solo. Yeah, so once I went solo, like all bets are off. Like, I remember like my first single that I put out was called Move, and that featured Houdini, yeah, the group Houdini, yeah. Which was crazy. People was like, How did you get Houdini? Yeah. How did you?

How did you get Houdini? Because they were on the block on fucking Linden. I met them years ago, right? But I didn't really get to sit down with them until 2018, right? Because my producer at the time was really good friends with them. And like he was around them all the time. So I'm like, man, I freaking love Houdini. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta talk to him. So we we met up, and literally when I first met them, was they came to the studio where I was recording with my producer. They heard the song, they was like, oh man, this is hot. I want to get on it. Boom. First. shot. So didn't even have to ask. Didn't even have to ask. First session. But were you going to ask? You didn't offer it up? I wasn't gonna ask because that was just the first encounter. That's like trying to first meeting. Yeah. Trying to fuck on the first date. You were like. Right, right.

Let me not push. Let me not push. You know, metaphorically speaking, Houdini, you know. You love the dating metaphors, though. I mean popping up. They work. I feel like a lot of times industry, it feels like a big fucking dating pool of people. You know, on first dates for sessions and shit. I don't know, man. Yeah, it was it was cool, man. I mean, you know, I was just happy to just be there with him, you know, let alone get a verse. Once again, from like a fan's perspective, that had to be like, yo, yeah, man. This is this is awesome. It was sick. So, you know, we we put the record out. Um, the record did like a million streams in like two weeks, right? It was going crazy. Sheesh. So after that, I'm like, okay, all right, obviously, there's a demand going on. So um I was in work mode. I'm like, all right, so I'm gonna work on this EP, which was the Blue Leisure EP. Yep. Um, are you producing for yourself at this point? No, actually, I I didn't produce any of those records. Have you produced any of your own records over the years?

Only one. And we've talked about this too. Yeah. Is it because you just can't work on it from both angles because it's just too much? and you get tired of it? I can, but I just want it to be artist mode. Yeah. Like I didn't, I just want to take some of the expectation off of me. Like, I just want to write, I just want to be an artist, like, and and and in the midst of that, just give other people opportunity as well. True. The other part of it too is if you are making the beat, as the artist, you never have that first time that you get to hear the beat and have that first reaction and that first vibe, like yeah, play the beat and hear it, and you're like, oh, I'm hearing this, yeah, and I'm vibing to this. No, you spent hours making the beat. You're not gonna have that initial. But on the flip side, I'm so like particular and a perfectionist that even though I'm not producing the beat, I'm still the one mixing the beat. So you couldn't so you couldn't be totally hands off with the production. Yeah, I'm I'm still very hands-on.

Yeah, like when it even when it comes down to the mixing of the record, like the vocals. We're gonna make this kick thump a little harder. Yeah, those hats aren't rolling the way they need to. It has it has to be right. Yeah, it has to be right. But but you know, because trust me, man, like when when I was creating the blue leisure project, each record was mixed like at least 10 times. Mm-hmm. At least. At least. It kills him. Yeah. Like I I'm just, you know, respect. Like, I I feel you. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was a process, but I mean, you know, when people heard it, they were like, yo, this is next level. You know, and for it to be my first project, too. Yeah. And I had features on there. Like it wasn't just like just something I just kind of threw out there just to test the water. I'm like, no, I'm really trying to make a statement here. Which uh Kanye project was it where he they had literally 10 different engineers mix the entire project? That's like I don't know.

There was some on that list. I feel like that's all of them. yeah, probably a lot of them. Yeah, 10 different. engineers. Every single Kanye project. Yeah, like we've had the album mix 10 times. And it's like, well, what's the engineer doing? No, there's 10 engineers. You got like 10 writers and mess. You've been Grammy nominated. Yes. And I think a few times, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. One of them is for a Bieber record, right? Yes. Shout out to Biebs. Shout out to Biebs. Shout out to Biebs, man. Jay Biebs, if you're ever in Atlanta, which we know you are. Come on, man. Love to have you on the podcast. Come on, man. Yeah. So how did that happen? Like what what was your role on that record? Was it a songwriter or were you the producer or co-producer? On that one, it was more the writing. Yeah. Um really of right place at the right time. Um a little bit of luck and a little bit of relationships. Sprinkle of finesse. Yeah, the sprinkle of finesse. Yeah. Yeah. And which record was it again? Uh it was company. Company.

Okay. All right. Dope. Yeah. Yeah. So you're still chasing the Grammy, huh? Yeah, still chasing that Grammy, man. We're gonna get it. Yeah. You're gonna get it. Ha how important, because we actually talked about this with Ashley, so it's kind of you know, funny to bring it back up. You know, she used to set goals for herself, and now she treats them as just to-do list items, and she said something like, I mean, I'll probably get a couple Grammys, but like it's not a big a deal if I don't. I mean, I kind of feel the same way. I mean, you know, my thing is- what weight do you put on like a Grammy? I mean, it's great, but you know, I'm not out here like screaming like I need a Grammy, you know. Like I'm just creating. You know, I just I just want to create. I just want to make music. So how much weight do you put on like outside reception of your art though? Well just enough to live off of music, or are you chasing like people's status, you know, or people's like, you know, affection and you know what I mean? Yeah, like well, I mean, I uh the easiest way to explain it is I make music for me. Yeah, like I create for me.

And of course, it's always great that other people love what you do, you know what I mean? And and you know, you have fans around the world that enjoy it, but for me, I'm I'm doing it for my fulfillment, right? I make the music that I would want to listen to, right? And ironically, more people tend to connect with it than when you try to make music for other people, yeah, yeah. And you know, like I I've always been a person to where like I I don't really do things for validation from other people. Like, I just I do me. Fuck what people think, yeah. I I don't really I don't care about that type of stuff. You know what I mean? Because once you start doing that, then you're living by other people's means. Yes. Or or their rules or or what you should be doing versus what you actually want to do. You know what I mean? So with me, like the where I'm at right now in in my life and my career and and my creativity, I don't listen to many people. You know what I mean?

In the sense of personal or musically. Like I'm in more of just my own world. You know what I mean? And whatever comes out of that is what you get. Does that ever hurt you? You know, what you say? No. Uh because I think how I'm doing things now, it's innovative in a way. So I'm like, even with See It My Way with me and Robin, that's an innovative record. Yeah. And people, that's the first time I even dropped a record like that. Yeah. So people are hearing me on something like that for the first time. So they're like, wow, this is different. Never heard you on it, but I love it. It's forward. Yeah, it's being well received. Yeah, it's super well. Like, man, we went number one on the charts like the third day it came out. Crazy. Yeah. Number one. And I did not expect that. Yeah. Did not. We went dumb, we went number one on four charts. That's crazy.

Sheesh. Shout out Robin. Shout out Robin, man. And I love her so much, man. She's she's always been a huge supporter of the brand of the movement, vice versa. And she's always been so down to earth. And you know, like, I mean, dog, she has the biggest dance song of all time. Unreal. Unreal. Yeah. So at what point uh you know, do your TV appearances happen? Ooh, um, man, those are so random. And and yeah, I was trying to like find clips, but I couldn't. So, like, what was the extent of you being on these shows? Like, you know, love and hip hop and more like um, like the love and hip hop stuff and the BET stuff and all that, it was music based. Like, you know, just how like you see producers in the studio with artists and like working, like, you know, uh featuring the producer and the artist. Like, was it was basically that. Okay. Um, I was working with a couple of different artists. So um, I remember I was on a show called uh From the Bottom Up that was on BET, and um I was working with um uh Sarah Stokes from Making the Band.

Okay. So um I had produced a single for her called Um Sneak Peek, which uh featured Babs. She was in the same group with her. Oh yeah. So uh God, that's like throwback in my fucking mind. Yeah, super throwback. Holy shit. Babs from making the band. Like, yeah, shout out to shout out to both of them, man. Yeah, yeah. So basically we was just uh we did an episode uh for BET, just kind of showing the making of us making that song and you know, just kind of talking about life and stuff like that. Do you have aspirations though of doing bigger things within the acting world? Yeah, for sure, for sure. Like that doesn't even sound like much of acting. That's more like yourself. That's capturing real life. things. Yeah, that's just, like real life stuff. But you know a Funny thing. So at the time, this is like years ago, I had a manager at the time, right? And she was more into the television film world, more so than music. Okay. And she wanted me to get more into to film. I'm like, okay.

And I was always curious about acting and you know, doing stuff like that on camera. So she was like, hey, I want you to come to this um this taping that will this filming that they're doing this day. I'm like, okay. They were starting at like 6 a.m. I'm like, uh, I don't know if I need to be there at 6 a.m. But I got there at eight. Close enough. Um yeah, close enough. Classic artist shit. Although he was on time today, folks. Yes, yeah, I was on time. I was on time. Shout out. Very impressive. Um can't say the same for our other guests. Oh, yeah, man. Uh, I it gives me anxiety when I'm late. That's a shame. Me too, man. I I don't know what that is, but it just gives me anxiety. But I came there, and you know, it was this movie that they were working on. Didn't know what it was about, didn't know who was in it, nothing. So all she said was, I want you to go there, network and meet people, and da-da-da. So she was really good friends with one of the main directors and producers of the film. And his name was Arrow Sadler.

So I'm like, all right, cool. And I had met him the uh prior when I was when I met with her uh before this day. And um, cool guy. So I came on set, and like all these people there, like like Clifton Powell from Friday is there, Terry Vaughn is there, uh Carl Payne from Martin, just a bunch of people, right? All star lineup. All star lineup. So I'm thinking like maybe I'm gonna do some extra work or something, you know, just on the back side, right? So I walk in there and and literally they're shooting a scene when I'm walking onto the set. So I'm just staying out the way. And they called Cut, and the guy was like, man, he was he was upset because somebody called out to, you know, they couldn't show up. So he was like, Man, I need somebody to do this this scene with Clifton. He looked at me because I was standing right there. He looked at me, he was like He was like, You stand

right here. I'm like, all right. They're like, Can you stand? Yeah, still. So he so he told me to stand right there. I'm like, all right. He was like, he hand me, he handed me this big old script. Okay. He was like, say these lines real quick. And then it turned into like a whole scene. Wow. That was the first movie I was in. And so you said you did that. Yeah. What was the movie? It was called Love by Chance. Okay. That's literally right place, right time. Like literally. Physically in the right place. I got a sad credit, got paid. Wow. So was it anything to do with like, you know, you had the right like look? You kind of looked like the guy that called out. I don't know. I just was standing right there. literally just standing right there. Literally, I didn't know. Who was the other guy, like a white guy, that I didn't even know who the guy was. I didn't, I didn't know what the role was, what the guy was supposed to do. Yeah, yeah. Nothing. Like they just like, hey, you come over here, you read these lines, and then like kind of like you know, freestyle it a little bit once Clifton starts doing his thing. Yeah.

And that was that. Damn. Wow. Must have done a good job. I guess. Yeah, were you nervous? In the beginning, yeah, but the more takes we were doing, I was like, oh, this is cool. How many takes did you need? I think we did like maybe like six. Okay. I have no idea if that's a lot or a little. Probably standard. Yeah. Because do you see what I didn't realize is like on different sets, they have these cue lines. Like, if you stand here, this is a cue. Then if you stand over here, this is a cue. And over here is it's all these different cues. Oh, yeah. I have no idea. So they direct you to all these different cues where you need to be. I'm like, I didn't know they did it like that. Oh, I've yeah, I have no idea. And they pay them on music. They pay you per cue. Ooh. In movies. I want lots of cues. So, like, if you stay here. Stack up in cues. bro. If you stand here and and did something, yeah, okay, that's a cue. You get paid for that. Then if you're over here, that's another cue. You get paid for that. I'm like, wow, that's that's interesting. Damn, he's reading scripts now.

Like, how many cues I got? Yeah, I'm like, how many, how many lines? Let's try it again with me over there. What's my movement? Yeah. It's a Clifton. I think it would look better if I was over there. Yeah, like, let's move over here, man. Let's position the lights. That's funny. So, you know, you you know, you transition into an artist. Uh, obviously, you kind of talked about like that came by way of that collab that you did, you know, King's X2, that you know, that that duo. Yeah. How's your artistry evolved? Would you say, you know, since that that first project, you know, I think you've had like what, three projects out or something? Um, so I put out two EPs. Okay, two EPs. And um, so basically, when I dropped the first EP, of course, that was that was the you know, the feeler, right? Yep. And literally that whole year, I was I did my own tour that whole year. Wow. Like, like the even the crazy part, even before that, when when I was announcing that I was putting out the EP, I had did a release event the day at, well, yeah, it was the day after it came out. Well, really the same day.

And it was sold out. Dang. Like, like it was it was a nice size venue. It wasn't the biggest, but I mean, it probably held like 250 people, yeah, something like that, right? Just to start out. Most people can't pack a 50 person room. for a release event. I wanted to see what the reaction would be and see if people would actually come, right? They can. Man, and it was and I was nervous because not only this is my first project, but it was raining outside, it was it was gloomy. I'm like, mm. not good vibes going into it. It wasn't a good vibe at first. Yeah, but then I'm like, let me just let me just see. Yeah, man. I pulled up to the venue, the line was wrapped around the building. Hell yeah. I'm like, is this for me? And I even I walked up to the to the door just to ask. I'm like, is this this is for James Worthy, right? They're like, they were like, Yeah. I'm like, wow.

You're like, you know, it's not the basketball James Worthy, right? And I'm like, I sing. But I had to make sure I'm like, this is the blue leisure event, right? They're like, yeah. I'm like, wow. That didn't book Chief Keef on top of me, right? Yeah. Wow. Seriously. I couldn't believe it. No, that's great. It was great, man. So I had to like. That that really put the motivation. Yeah. Right. So that's when I started booking the tour. Like, oh, this was a good decision to try this artistry thing. Absolutely. You know, versus like, you know, you probably had a good thing going with the producing and songwriting. So you kind of were probably. Yeah, and I was still on a roll. I was still on the roll, but you know, I wanted to branch out. And I didn't really know how it was gonna go, but I did it anyway. And then um it just exceeded the expectation. Yeah. So after that, it was like sky was the limit. So after that, I'm like, well, I'm I'm going to project number two. Yeah. Right. So come 2020, um, I remember I had went to Italy, and I I had uh I was in Rome at the time. I was sitting in this courtyard, and this is early in the morning, and literally where where the courtyard was, it was like probably like a couple blocks away from the Coliseum, so you can see it.

Damn. It's crazy. So this guy that was sitting above me on this balcony, he had this huge telescope, right? And he was looking at the Coliseum. But the way the telescope looked, like it had all these different colors and like it looked like super dope. So I kept looking at it. I'm like, because I was thinking of a concept of the for the project. Yeah. And I'm like, this time around, I want to give a different perspective, different sound, just something, something different to step it up from, from blue leisure. So that's when that's when kaleidoscopes popped in my head. Yeah. Right. So I'm like, ah, that's it. So I started coming up with the ideas. So as soon as I got back to the States, started working on Kaleidoscope. So and the crazy part about it was it was a lot of artists reaching out to me, wanting to do records. Yeah. So I'm like, man, this is this is kind of dope. Yup. And then, and then obviously you've had a couple singles, like, you know, Lucy

since then, right? Yeah, yeah. So after I dropped that project, man, then that's when the whole pandemic came. Yeah. You know, because literally I had I had did a release event um a week after Kaleidoscopes came out and um sold-out event again. This time it was a bigger venue. Yeah. It was like like I think a 500 people venue. 500 people came. It was crazy. Damn. So after that, man, it was it was on. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, the whole pandemic kind of got in the way a little bit. You know, you couldn't move around, you couldn't tour, you couldn't travel. Venues were one of the hardest hit. shut, shut down, gone, right? So I'm like, well, I mean, we gotta get creative, right? So I just started putting out singles here and there. So I put out a single called Do You Know, uh around, you know, early around that year, and then um I dropped Goldmine with Jay Holiday, um, which did very well. We did a music video to that.

Um, then I dropped another single called In the Dark, and then I just dropped a bunch of singles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. TikTok with Big Gipp. Yeah, yeah, that's that's really when like the singles culture like solidified itself of like, you know, we're sticking around. Yeah. And obviously, like with you know, no pun intended, with the rise of TikTok, the platform, yeah. That obviously is really fueling the singles culture where for sure, you know, short sound bites of of songs, you know. Um, and so I think that you know, obviously you had to evolve. Every artist had to adapt to shit. We can't tour. What are we doing? Yeah, projects, you know. I don't know if that's you know where people's heads were at to be making full-length projects. They like creativity was sucked out of a lot of people, I feel like during that time. Yeah, man. It was kind of rough. Yeah, it was it was rough for a minute. But in the in the flip side of it, it actually worked in my favor because it gave me a lot more time to create. Yeah.

It's tough, it's tough to do that when you're, you know, moving and shaking and yeah, and you know, do throughout that whole time, I'm like, well, I want to work on my debut album. And it gave me so much time to just figure out the direction and where I wanted to take things, and you know, what would the sound be this time? How can I elevate from what I've already been doing? You know, just all of that, you know. So I I think, man, the things, the the records that I've been doing now are incredible. So where's the debut album? When can we expect it? So the so the debut album will be releasing uh this summer in August. Okay. Is this a one more time exclusive? It is. Woo. fuck yes? I knew we'd get one. I knew we'd get one out of James. Yes. Do we have a name for it? August. The name of the album is called Once a Fairy Tale. Once a fairy tale. And and and like you feel this is your best work so far? Absolutely.

Yeah. OAF. Okay. OAF. OAF. Yeah. Oaf. Yeah. Oaf. Damn. That's dope, man. Yeah, literally, like, it's the marketing is gonna be so sick. All you're gonna see is OAF. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Get used to it. OAF. That's dope, man. So, so one other thing that I found really interesting. I have no idea what your involvement in it is, but the Three Kingdoms group. Three Kingdoms group. What the hell is that about? Three Kingdoms Group. How did you get like tell people what that even is? How did you get involved? You know, what's the deal behind that? Shout out to Three Kingdoms group. So Three Kingdoms Group is a global sports agency based in London. And I am the co-founder of the of that company, alongside my business partner, Steve, who lives in London as well. And basically, we just signed uh players to our agency to get them to ball clubs. Um, you know, soccer, football. And um it's like almost bridging the gap of sports and music, right?

Because people in other countries, they love American music, especially um in the UK. They they love American music, so it's more so like I'm the face of the company, and um it's almost like I'm endorsing them and they're endorsing me, right? And um, yeah, you know, we're just we're just a uh a new thriving company. Uh we're just making sure that we're picking the right players uh to the right ball club, so we're just getting everything in motion with that. But um, it's just a new venture that I wanted to try because I love sports, and um, I don't really see many people doing these types of uh ventures. Oh, yeah. What uh I thought that was so cool. I was like, what sports mostly? Yeah, like soccer or soccer, soccer. Both footballs, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Football. But uh soccer is, you know, it's huge. Yeah in the UK. So yeah, it's going. Well, yeah, so is Steve kind of holding it down as far as like you know, navigating those relationships in the UK? He's definitely holding it down.

Um, that guy is like, he's he's almost like a socialite out there. Oh, I I was I was checking him out. I was like, what the fuck is this guy? up to, man? this guy is all over the place. This dude is shaking hands with like anyone and everyone. No, like this guy is all over the place. Shout out to my guy Steve. Yeah, shout out to Steve Sharp. Steve Sharp If you're ever over here. And and shout out to Tansu as well. Tansu was also our other business partner as well. Um, all great guys, man. They they just they're doing their thing. How'd you even meet Steve though? You know, we we've been following each other on social media for a long time. Shout out the internet, man. Yeah, the internet one time, one time for the internet. The internet. Yep. Yeah, we just followed each other on IG for like the longest. So was he a fan of the music? Yeah, he was he was he was following me for a long time, and then we just kind of kept in touch with each other, and then he just popped up one day with this idea. He was like, Man, what do you think about this? I'm like, man, this is super dope. Let's see what we can do. Damn. Yeah, that's so cool, man. Just like that. Yeah, I I just think that having revenue streams and or just passions in general, like fuck the money side of things, but just being involved with something outside of music, so important. So important.

You gotta take a step away. And you know what? Even past that, like uh, besides Three Kingdoms group, uh, there's other ventures that I'm that I'm getting into as well. Um I actually just partnered uh with uh NFT company. Ooh, that's we were literally just talking about my language. Yeah, yeah. Just partner with them. Um they're actually based in um the UK as well. Um you have ties to London at all? Yeah, well, you know, or like I used to be there all the time. I I haven't had a chance to get over there, you know, since the whole pandemic, but yeah, I used to be over there all the time. Just what? Well, just working. with Artists, and stuff? touring, working with other artists, uh, you know, production, you know, different projects. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm very well versed over there. Yeah. And uh I have a big fan base over there. Like wow. Like the bulk of my fan base is in other countries. Yeah. It's crazy. Which people are sleeping on that. Yeah. Fuck your hometown fans. Yeah. No offense to your hometown. Not actually. I still love you, but we got a branch out. But like with the internet, once again, shout out the internet.

I mean, it doesn't matter if someone in your city fucks with you, if you can reach people in other markets that do. Well, you you're never gonna be international if you don't. That's yeah, well said. I mean, that's the bottom line. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's just like like an artist that wants to go global, right? If you don't do a pop record, you're not going global. Yeah. Something that can be if you if you're not in that world some way somehow, you're not going global. Yeah. It's it's it's just too broad. What is the NFT company do? You guys minting like music NFTs? So um, we're gonna be working on a lot of different NFTs. Like um, you know, just of course music, but you know, uh memorabilia with different things, um just different, just stuff, man. Just creative stuff. Was that also just something that you had a passion for? Like you, you know, you like learning about that shit? Yeah, because I have a lot of valuable stuff. You know what I mean?

So I'm like, why not use it? Yeah, you know, and and just patch it package it up, you know, a dope way. Um and and just get into the new wave. Yeah, yeah. So you're kind of tapped in with Web3 and all that stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah. Dope. Yeah, you know, that shit is like no because over my head. Remember how he was talking about, you know, being early on Twitter and sending out packs and stuff now? Yeah. Web3 is the current version of that. There's people that are minting songs and they're getting fan bases just because there's not that many people doing it right now. Absolutely. There's people that are winning because they're in this space early, and it's gonna be, it's like it's the next wave of web. I put all my faith in you, Henry. He's right. He's right. I'm telling you, man. He's right. And you know, now is it's probably the most important time to like get into these things and be as creative and innovative and like just entrepreneurship is like just thriving right now. Yeah, right.

It's this is the time to do it because things are fresh, right? Things are growing, things are like just trying to find its way. So it's opportunity, it's opportunity. And you want to jump on it in the beginning early because all when people wait and then they're trying to get on whatever wave that was going on, like at the last minute. Missed the boat, my friend. You missed the boat. Yeah, you missed the boat. Yeah. That's true. You know, so I'm always thinking about stuff like that. You know, like even now, like past that, I'm working on um a separate brand called Tasty Notes. And Tasty Notes is going to be a um entertainment event brand. So every event that comes not only in Atlanta, but other cities are gonna come through Tasty Notes. So we're gonna be providing um live entertainment, um, networking, uh food, beverage uh vendors, but we're featuring different styles, not just the same old stuff, like just different styles of all of everything. Yeah, right, That's dope.

And it's more of an elite upscale style. So whenever you see an event from us, it's like an experience. Yeah. Right. So when you attend it, you're gonna be like, whoa, like this is a lot that went into this. Yeah. So when you walk out of it, you're like, I can't wait for the next one. Yeah, you know, that's that's our that's our goal. So that's another venture that I'm working on. Damn. Well, yo, it sounds like you got so much going on. I don't know how you fucking manage it. It's a lot, it's a lot. But you know, but shout out to my team, man. You know, of course, it's not a one-man job. Yep, you know, so everybody has you know uh obligations and roles to play, but everybody has to be on the same page, man. Yeah, you know, because one thing that's not working in the engine, the engine is not moving. Facts, period. Yep, yeah, for sure. Well, y'all be fucking ready for this new album coming out in August. Yes.

Be ready. OAF is gonna be stamped on your fucking forehead by August. Yes. We are looking forward to it, man. This has been an amazing conversation. I'm I'm gonna tell you guys right now, OAF is gonna be a classic. I can't wait for it. And I'm I'm glad we got to, you know, get that exclusive in. So just know I was on the podcast, and I told you guys OAF is gonna be a classic. Well, don't forget about us once you, you know, no, no, no. No, this so this is what we gotta do. When the album comes out, I'm coming back. Yeah, wow. We'll do a check in episode, next year. We got to do a check-in. or we'll get him on our news segment that is not ready for debut. So you know what? So what we'll do is when the album drops, you guys do a review of the album, right? We're already talking about doing reviews. already talking about doing reviews. I'll come back and then we'll talk about it. Bro, I love that. I love this. Let's do it. Let's do it. Amazing conversation, man. Oh man, thanks. Really, really great, you know. Come up. You've had so far. Thank you, man. All the shit you got your hands in is so inspiring. Like, artists out there, don't be afraid to get involved with other shit outside of music.

I mean, think about your passions And do that. Look, man, you know, especially right now with the whole pandemic stuff that's been going on. We're just playing catch up right now. So it's not like lucrative. Yeah. As as as much as it was before. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, it's changing. People can't even tour like they used to right now. At all. Yeah. So there's no money. Yeah. It's it's so you gotta be creative. It's still a weird world we're living in. But once again, amazing episode, amazing conversation. I appreciate you coming on the show. No problem, no problem. And Henry, until next week, what are we doing? Getting out of here. We're getting the fuck out. Peace.