How Musicians Should Run Meta Ads in 2026 ft. Andrew Southworth

You've been told over and over again that you gotta run ads to promote your music. Then you open up Meta Ads Manager and it looks like a rocket science textbook. And this is the moment where you start lighting money on fire. Because if you set up your campaign wrong, you'll come in here and be like, oh, I'm getting three cents a conversion. Then you look at Spotify and you have zero streams. You boost a post, you pick the wrong objective, you keep all of Meta's default settings. You stare at CTR, CPC, CPM, and wonder how the f all these C's are benefiting your music career. So we brought Andrew Southworth back on the podcast for part two. But this time we're not just talking about ads, we're showing them to you. Here we are in Facebook ads. This is my band's ad account. Andrew has managed over $5 million in ad spend for artists, and in this episode, he shows us things like what to click. We can click this create button. We want an engagement objective because in engagement you can track conversions. What to avoid. Now we get to the first what the f moment from meta. Turn all this crap off, if any of it's on. What to test out? You can add up to 10 videos per ad, four parts of the song to visual aesthetics.

Choose listen now is our call to action. This is what the button says in the ad. And these specific tactics for turning a losing campaign into a big winner. And you can see all the different costs per result, like $4 a conversion, $1.28, $0.80. I made nine more videos and got the cost down to $0.29. This is basically a free meta ads masterclass that shows you the clicks and gatekeeps absolutely nothing. Plus later in the episode, we're picking two of you at random to give $100 each to put toward a campaign. So pay close attention to this one and take good notes before you spend another penny on ads. This has been the meta ads goat, y'all. He solved them. This meta ads have been solved. Yeah. To have someone on the podcast twice, Henry, it doesn't happen often. They have to be legendary. They gotta be the one. So we got the motherfucking GOAT of ads, Andrew Southworth back on the podcast. Oh my God.

Y'all ate his last episode up. You guys got so much value out of out of that that we had to get him back on the podcast. And this time, you know, the first episode was very, it was high level, right? We asked a lot of good questions, got some incredible insights. Hopefully that was, you know, helpful for you all. But I think, you know, when we watched it back, I thought I just I wanted to get a little deeper. More. I need more. I need more. Give me more. And I think that, you know, most of you all, uh, at least in the comments, are using meta ads manager as kind of your core ad, you know, management platform. Uh, so that's Facebook, Instagram, of course. So I want to make this episode really dialed in on how to best utilize meta ads manager as a musician. And this is someone who's managed over $5 million in ad spend. So he knows a thing or two about five million. Yeah, five million things or two about you know, meta ads. So appreciate you coming on the podcast, seriously.

Um, I guess just high level, you know, after spending that much money on meta ads, you know, in in your career, what what is like the one or two just main takeaways that you just had no idea when you started that you'd only learn by spending that much money in the platform? Yeah, so the one of the biggest things people get wrong is they they don't try enough visuals. So they go into it with like one cool clip that they're really confident about of the course of their song, and they just roll with it. They're not trying different parts of the song, they're not trying different hooks, different visual aesthetics inside of the of the ads that they're using. Um, so that when I when I got into it and I started doing it, um, initially I was not using that many videos. And honestly, even from like six, seven years ago when I started to to now, the amount of videos that are required to get a good campaign have kind of gone up over the years. Like Meta's become more and more of less reliant on on like targeting and more reliant on visual. So, like it used to be you could target Deftones or Linkin Park in your targeting.

Uh now you can't. You can't even target alternative metal or new metal anymore. So you have to back up and target like heavy metal or hard rock. Um, and your visuals kind of are your targeting because certain people will click on certain ads, right? So if your video naturally appeals to a new metal fan, the non-new metal fans aren't gonna engage with it and the new metal fans are. So your ads kind of are your targeting in a way. Um and that was that's something a lot of people don't expect coming into. They're like, oh yeah, I got one ad. It's like, yeah, yeah, let's get eight, right? Let's get 16 or something. What is a good number that you would feel comfortable if you were like going into market your own song? How many pieces of creative would you make? It kind of depends on the budget to a degree, but a lot of times I like having eight plus. Um, and sometimes I'll go in with 16, for example. And then from there, you you iterate more. So if things aren't working and you start with eight, cool, let's go make another eight. And then if after a few more days it doesn't work, cool, let's make another eight. So if you're coming into a song with like a really big budget, you might just go ahead and just make more off the rip.

If you're coming into it and you're like, I only have 200 to spend, every ad you try, it costs money to test. So if you're running on a smaller budget, you do kind of have to do less ads, but that doesn't mean you have to do like two. You'll probably still do like eight. You're just not gonna do like 30, right? Yeah. And and so, you know, of all the campaigns that you've done, what percentage do you think, you know, have performed exceptionally well versus what percentage have performed, you know, kind of average or as expected versus which, you know, what percentage have just flopped, right? Just so people kind of get an idea of like what to expect. Because I think the biggest complaint I hear from people that like try and do ad campaigns, right? Is that it doesn't work, right? Like they try it once and then it flops. And like there's a lot of reasons why it might flop, but this isn't like batting a thousand, right? Like you, as someone who's such an expert in this space, you even have run into situations where like the campaigns just don't perform. And there's a lot of reasons why I'm sure that is.

So I just wanted to get a baseline of like what what percentage work don't work? Yeah, I I actually I don't know the exact percentage, but what I tell people all the time, uh, if you release 10 songs, you should expect that two are gonna be great, two are gonna be absolute flops, and six are gonna be on some bell curve in the middle. And it's more or less true depending on the different artists. So some artists will have a higher success rate and other artists will have a worse success rate, but it it it kind of does become a numbers game because of that fact. So if we're running a campaign and it's it's not going well, like let's say we're launching it, it's like a dollar a conversion, which later, if you don't know what a conversion is, you'll you'll learn what it is. Um, but the uh if it's not if it's going like a dollar conversion, which would be quite bad a couple weeks in, and we've tried all this stuff, it's like, okay, well, the song's just not working. Like you can't make every song work. So we will ask the artist, like, hey, do you have another song coming out in a couple of weeks that we can switch to and just save all this the rest of this money for that? Do you have another song from your past catalog you'd want to pivot to instead?

Um, and I'd say roughly half the time you have a flop. Um, and this is again, this is assuming the music's good in the first place, of course, right? If if if every song is horrible, then you know nothing's gonna work. But like if an artist is releasing like good music, um then if you have a flop, typically like 50% of the time, the next one will not be a flop. Doesn't guarantee it's gonna be amazing, but it's gonna be like acceptable or at least like fine. Um, so that's why if something's not working at our agency, we will we'll offer what we call a pivot, or we'll give them like the three options as we call it internally. Do you want to um keep going anyways? Because maybe for you this is a good result. Do you want to pivot to your next song? Do you want to pivot to a different song you already have out? Yeah, for me, what I'm hearing is that no matter how good the marketing is, no matter how good the paid ads strategies are, if the song sucks, it's not gonna work. But I mean, I just think you know, sometimes people uh hop on you know, you know, in the comments being like, none of my content works.

I go check out their content. It's a it's not even that the content's necessarily horrible. The song is not good. And so that's a tough, it's a tough like reality check. No one likes to hear that your art isn't good and good is subjective, we understand, but like still, I mean, same thing with us. It's it's kind of it's even a little more nuanced than that too. Like it can just be the song's not good, of course, but you can have an awesome song do really, really bad in ads, because not every song is good at getting a first-time listener into the door, right? Like some songs. That's a big one. Are fan songs, you know, and some songs are are like fan converters or or whatever. Right. Like if you're a diehard queen fan, your favorite song probably isn't We Will Rock. But that's probably the song to get you into it. You know, it's We Are the Champions, We Will Rock You, Bohemian Rhapsody. But your your favorite song is probably some like deep cut. Same with like Pink Floyd. You probably get into them with with like um another brick in the wall or or comfortably numb or something, but your favorite song is some track number seven from their third album, you know, and that's pretty common, right?

Like my favorite tool song is Right in Two. That's not one of the singles, right? From not even from that album or generally, um, or Rosetta Stoned, right? It's a weird song. That is not a song that converts a stranger into a fan. That's a song that a fan like falls in love with after their like 17th listen. Yeah. Okay, I have two questions. A do you think that artists should be maybe like trying to incorporate, you know, or or make or edit their songs in a way that is conducive to converting people into fans. And B, like, what even are those elements? Like how do you know if it is or not? I don't I don't think so. I I I I mean, personally, I write music that I want to make and I I release the music that I want to put out, and I I try to figure out the marketing after there are plenty of people who design their music to be like packaged for marketing, right? Like um I I believe Nic D's talked about that on his like he's like his whole thing is like let's come up with some content and then write a song that can work with that content, you know, which which is which is creatively satisfying too, I'm sure.

It's just a different way to do it. I also do alternative metal, so it's kind of a different or hip-hop, right? So if if you're if you're doing uh like if your whole thing is you're like fun, danceable electronic hip-hop, right? Like like, let's just for example, it kind of makes sense that you would have very like clippable songs that would be that would have these moments in it that would stand out in social media, right? It kind of kind of naturally does. And I'm sure there's ways you can purposefully write this in, like you you know the kind of clips that go viral on TikTok for sounds, right? there. it's never like a normal chorus segment, it's this like transitionary thing that then caused this like big transition moment into a big drop or big chorus, like typically. So I'm sure you could make that your focus and try to do it, or you could be like, let's try to not make our song so long and let's like cut off the intro and let's maybe just skip the bridge altogether. It's like, oh, wait, well, that's actually what pop artists have already been doing. So um, I don't like it, but um those are the kind of things that some people start to get into, and they're like, let's design our songs to be more commercially viable.

I just I just personally don't like it as a that's good news, then so you guys don't have to change your music, you can still make the music you want to make. But if some of you guys out there are trying to like min-max hack the system, maybe you can if you want to. So yeah, and it's the nice thing with like ads and social media is like there's billions of people on these platforms, right? And so um you can find your your weird niches, and and sometimes being in a weird niche that's not like commercially viable is actually or not that's not commercially viable. It's not like a commercial, can actually help you because you're not competing with with the mainstream like volume of output. You know, if if you're making like medieval trap music about mental health, for hell yeah, like if if you're into like trap music and medieval stuff and like you're struggling with various mental health things yourself, it's like if you see that there's not like a question in your mind of is this for me? It's like that is I feel like this was made for me, right?

Um and it might do very well because of that. And I've seen different projects that are kind of like obscure have really good success rates like better than that that like you know too, too great too bad six in the middle like they'll do better than average. And I think it's because like it's like well who else you're gonna listen to if you like this we are we are like the band that does this thing that you love. We're tapped into this weird niche that actually kind of helps them. Yeah that's amazing. And so you know before we get into kind of the crash course tutorial on how to set up a campaign in meta ads manager, right? You're gonna walk us through some of that stuff. What does an artist need to have ready right before I even get into meta ads obviously I need some some money to spend that is the entry fee. But but other than the budget that I want to spend what are some other like I don't know you know obviously we've talked about number of ads, right? So just walk them through like a checklist maybe of things that I need to be prepared you know to have in place before I even start clicking away a meta ads manager. Yeah I mean so the the obvious thing is this is a song.

Yep. So have that song ready. Okay ideally you would kind of plan your ads to start on release day. So time it correctly where it's either like if your song's already out like you know that's a different story. But if your song's not out, then um if you're gonna have it, don't have your ad start like three weeks later. Like try to have it start on release day. You need your ad creatives. Um, and I like to have eight plus if you have five, that's still way better than one, right? If you have three, that's still way better than one. So try to get as many as you can. And five, eight, that kind of thing would be would be a great start. Just keep in mind, like you can always add more later as well. And you need a Facebook account, unfortunately, which um a lot of a lot of Gen Z, and I'm sure younger, it'll be the same thing. Uh, they like don't have those, which is funny for us millennials who uh, you know, we we have I've had my Facebook accounts in like 2007 or something, right? So um dinosaur.

Yeah. So you you you need a Facebook account to run this. Um, Mark Zuckerberg's very clever with that, that you you can't just make like a separate account. And um, if if you don't have a Facebook account, you can't just make one and start running ads the next day. Facebook is like very ban happy with suspicious behavior, and like what's more suspicious than making a brand new Facebook account and then all of a sudden immediately going and start to run ads. Like that's that's weird behavior considering most people have had their Facebook accounts for like forever. Yeah, um, so if you don't have one, make one and like make it have your real name and your real picture. You can make your privacy settings whatever you want so the people can't find you, but you want to have your real name and picture. Because if anything ever happens with Facebook and they ban your account, the first thing they ask for is a is a picture of your driver's license. And if the name doesn't match, ban. So then you'll lose your Facebook page as well. Whoa. Um, so sucks, right? But Meta's meta's not a good company. If you'll you'll get the advice.

Um, they just happen to have the best ad platform right now. Yeah, and go where we have to. Um, you also will want you want some type of landing page service. I'm gonna go over Submit Hub links in in this because it's free and it's the easiest to get started with. If you already have something like Hypeddit or Smart Noise or Feature FM, these are different platforms that can do that and you can use as well. Um, but you don't want to use something like Link Tree, for example, because it's it's not really designed for the the same type of thing. And then, of course, you need money to do this. And in terms of how much money you need, I would say um on the lower end, like five to ten dollars a day is the bottom end. Like you're you're not gonna run a campaign for a dollar a day. Um, ideally you'd have 10, but you could probably stretch down to five. And I'd probably like I'd say launching at $10 a day is the minimum. And then once your campaign's been going for a few days, you can pull it back to five. You can even pull it back down to one.

It's just like your campaign has to go through this thing called the the learning phase uh to get it has to get through that before you can pull it down to a bare bones level, otherwise it'll never get out of learning. Um so kind of plan for $10 a day, but I do have some campaigns that I've run for like $2 a day for just like in the background for like months and months and months. And how many days? So that people can get an idea of like total budget, would you recommend? Yeah. So I I mean, at the shorter end, like three days, I would say is probably like three days to $10 a day, probably will get you through the learning phase a lot of the time. If your campaign's going really bad, it ironically, it might actually need more time because the learning phase is determined by the number of conversions you're getting. And so if you have a high worst cost, you're getting less conversions per dollar. So you might need longer to get through it. And one thing that's definitely worth mentioning, your first campaign is probably gonna be your worst one. So, like you do want to kind of strap in and just immediately brace like, okay, one, I'm watching this, I need to commit to running this for three days without touching anything.

Just to let Facebook learn. Even after that, it it's still your first one. So, you know, like I typically say under 20 cents per conversion is phenomenal. 20 to 30 is great, 30 to 40 is good, 40 to 50 is meh, over 50 is bad. But if you're this is your first one, I'd say like just getting under 50 is a massive win, personally, because it's your first one. Your pixel, which you'll you'll see what a pixel is when we're setting this up, um learns over time. So your second campaign that uses the same pixel, uses the data that it collected from the first campaign to help you figure out what to target. So your your ads kind of get smarter and smarter campaign after campaign. Yeah, so 50, 100 bucks, you guys could get started. It's kind of encouraging. You know what I mean? You hear like ad budget, you're like, I don't have thousands of dollars, but you guys could be potentially be getting some good value, like right now with pretty small budgets. And if you're getting value out of this episode, please like, comment, and subscribe to the channel. I've been sleeping.

You are just asleep over there, man. I'm dialed in. I just I told you we need to like put a sign over here that says like, comment, and subscribe that we can just have it flash every five minutes. Yeah. Um, all right, but yeah, so let's get into the uh crash course. Uh, you know, as far as like how to set up an actual campaign. And after he's done this, we're gonna actually look at some example campaigns that Andrews ran to really talk through like what a $500 campaign might look like, a $5,000 campaign, and then a couple other campaigns that he's uh run that might have just brought up some interesting results, is all I'll say. So here we are in Facebook ads. This is my band's ad account. And uh if you want to get here, uh you you log into Facebook.com in like the it's it's a little different for everyone, and I don't want to show going from Facebook to here because then you'll see like all my friends' posts and social media your your cousin's graduation, your your aunt's birthday, probably something like random racist rambling on about some nonsense. Why is that always what's on Facebook now?

My sister shows me Facebook posts from her like old acquaintances from like high school, and it's just always racist rants. Like, I don't understand. It's bad. Yeah, yeah. So you go from Facebook in the top right, there's usually a menu, and in there you'll find ads manager. Ads manager is where you want to get to. This is what ads manager is. You can also usually go to business.facebook.com, and then there'll be like a way to get to ads manager from there too. But once you're here, ads manager. It looks like a lot. Your account's probably empty because you've never run a campaign before. Um, if you've ever like boosted a post on Facebook or maybe even Instagram, you you may see actually see some of those in here. Because when you boost a post, if your accounts are linked, it'll it actually is running the campaign through ads manager. Okay, that's a per I I meant to ask this question. What is we get this all the time? What is the difference? Like, why should or shouldn't someone use the boost a post functionality? I had this question, but okay.

Well, let's knock it out, man. It's it's topical right now, man. Yeah, yeah. It's a good question. And as you're gonna see as as we're going through uh building the campaign and looking at some of the examples, like there's a lot of buttons you can click, right? Yeah, it's overwhelming, man. It's a lot. It's like I'm going into this campaign here, this I am liminal album streaming campaign. Um, and there's like, okay, there's these five things called ad sets here. And then I can click on this ad set, and it has this ad inside of it, and I can open it up. Whoa, yeah, it has all these buttons and stuff, right? So there's a lot of things you can click and edit. When you boost a post, there's like seven things you can click on. Uh-huh. And those things that you can click give you control over what you're targeting, what types of ads you're showing, how money's allocated between audiences and ads, and and what types of people are seeing your ads and and also how you can view the data. Like I can go in and say, I want to look at how this campaign is performing across different age groups.

So I can see uh people who are 25 to 34 seem to overall be converting at the most, but 18 to 24 is converting slightly cheaper. I can do the same thing by country or by placement, by gender, by time of day. So essentially it comes down to control, the biggest thing. There's also certain types of campaigns you can't run via boosting. And the campaign we're gonna be doing today is is one of those. It's it's called a conversion campaign. Um, as I typically call it, a lot of people might call it like a Spotify growth campaign, Spotify conversion campaign. This is different terminology, but in a nutshell, uh, we are showing people an ad. And I'll just pull up one here. Okay. And in this case, you'll see I'm using some video game footage. That's one type of video that can work. Um, I'll show you different examples. But um, people see that ad, they click on the button. They can take it to a page like this. This is feature FM. We're gonna be using submit hub links, which is is great too. They click that button and that tracks the conversion.

So when you see a cost per conversion in here of 28 cents, it costs 28 cents not for someone to see the ad or click the ad, but see the ad, click the ad, land that page, and click again to go to another platform. Um and the reason we go through all this trouble is there's a lot of bots on Facebook and Instagram and every social media platform, just the internet. And uh if you set up your campaign right, uh, you're not gonna have these bots like causing false numbers. Because if you set up your campaign wrong, you'll come in here and be like, oh, I'm getting three cents a conversion. And then you look at Spotify and you have zero streams. Yeah. And it's like, okay, you do some somehow something went wrong with the campaign, you got a bunch of bots. And so a lot a lot of like the little weird things that we're gonna be clicking today, and like the fact we're using this middle ground landing page is basically to prevent all your money just getting served to bots and therefore not getting any streaming at all. Because you should have more streams and conversions.

So if you have a thousand conversions, you have at least a thousand streams. And if you don't, there's something wrong, right? And there might be a little bit wrong, but it might be a lot of it wrong. If you're getting a thousand conversions and you're getting like 10 streams, that's not that's not what's supposed to happen. And I see a lot of people have that happen and just assume that all of this is some elaborate scam, and I'm fabricating like all of these videos and screenshots just to like make Mark Zuckerberg more money. I've been accused of the wildest thing. Um but um yeah, if it's not working, it's not working. So that's the big difference between the the boosting and um setting it up. You get way more control, where many hours way more campaign options. The only time I boost um is is actually for those like Instagram profile visit campaigns on Instagram. Um those are actually typically better than doing it through the back end. I don't know why that is, but if you do like a Instagram profile visits campaign for the audience, people similar to your followers, it works better through boosting than it does through doing the exact same thing through here. Weird.

That's what I was gonna ask if there was ever a use case to boost versus do all this shit. Well, if you guys don't want to learn all this shit and can't pay anyone to do all this shit, maybe and you have some dollars you want to spend, do it. But if you're watching this episode, you're probably anxious to learn it. Do it the right way. Let's go, Henry. Let's get into it. Yeah, so that was a good segue because you get to see kind of like what a campaign looks like and what and what what happens when people click, right? So they get taken to a page like this, yeah, and then they convert and they go listen. So so that's what we're building today, is this kind of flow where people see an ad, click on the link, get taken to a landing page. There's something called a Facebook pixel on the page that they convert. So um the first thing we need is actually to switch over to our landing page platform because we need that landing page for your song. And um, in another window, I'm pulling up Spotify. Um, and I'm just gonna grab a link to one of our songs. I'm gonna grab the link to our song, Omen, because it sounds spooky.

Yeah. And then we can click. Um, and by the way, SubmitHub links, um, you've probably all heard of SubmitHub. But if you haven't, it gets a mixed rap online. There are places where you can like pitch to curators who own playlists or YouTube channels or radio stations or blogs. And uh that's like their business model, but they launched this thing called SubmitHub Links, which is a free landing page service. It's a free alternative to this, which is feature FM. Um, and it works great. So shout out SubmitHub. I was gonna say, yeah, that's pretty cool. Doing the Lord's work. Yeah. SubmitHub has a lot of free, like great free tools, like they have an AI song checker. So if you're wondering if the song you found online is AI or not, you can check if a playlist seems suspicious or not, if an artist is on any suspicious playlist, what they use AI to analyze your genre. So this isn't an ad for SubmitHub or anything, but um they they've done a lot of great work with like giving free stuff for the community. And um, I've met their their founder a couple of times, and he's he like he actually cares about making cool free stuff like this. Nice.

Um shout out to them. Yeah. Might have to talk to them. So on here, there's a thing called SubmitHub links. I can do paste a Spotify URL. We are promoting a track link, so not an album link or an artist link or a playlist link, although there's different reasons you might do those things. We're gonna do a track. And I'm gonna paste this in. And auto landing page. Wow. Auto landing page. So it's it's that easy. Um, it's a little hit or miss on if they find like what platforms they find here. I feel like a lot of the times they find Apple Music and YouTube music and not Beezer Pandora title. Um, but that's all customizable anyways. So if we go to edit, we can go down and we can like delete links and we can change the order of them, or we can add links. So you manually you you add whatever platforms you care about. But Spotify gets maybe like 70, 80% of all traffic.

Typically, um, Apple Music's the second biggest, and YouTube music's the third biggest. So, like having Apple or Spotify, Apple Music YouTube music is like 95% of the streaming market. But Deezer, less than 1%. Pandora, Tidal, less than 1%. So a lot of people talk about how you know Tidal or whatever platforms like oh they pay more they do these cool things. like yeah but no one uses them. Yeah. So so then it kinda does, it kinda makes sense. So is it safe to say that like should we just be including the top three to not have this like fatigue or super long link landing page or I mean what you know what are your recommendations. I usually when people are starting off I I will have them kind of prune it. So I won't have it them do this. Now this doesn't look as silly on a phone which is where 99% of people are seeing these ads. Yeah. Um because it turns into like the artwork on top and then it's like a scrollable list. So they only see the first couple they have to scroll to find more. So um having more isn't as much of a problem as you might think but a lot of times for newer people that you want to like kind of concentrate your results especially if you have a smaller budget, um the more platforms you have the more like places people are going, which means less people are kind of going to the places you you might care about.

So I would do Spotify Apple YouTube music in that order probably in that order. Top to bottom yeah yeah and the reason I wouldn't put YouTube but I would put YouTube music is YouTube is a free platform anyone can use no account required and it can kind of cannibalize everything because like everyone has YouTube. So if the if meta's algorithm sees that everyone's clicking to go to YouTube, then they're going to try to find more people who want to go to YouTube, right? Because their whole game is like, let's give you the cheapest cost per result possible. And so whatever gives your campaign the cheapest cost per result possible will will do that. And so yeah, Spotify, Apple music, YouTube music is what I recommend. Okay. So you can just add links there and delete or reorder accordingly. Um you do need you do need to put a pixel on this page. And this is a complex topic that I will give you some information for. Um, but I I do have a 40 minute tutorial on Facebook Pixel. Let's link that maybe or in the description or somewhere because we don't have 40 minutes to talk about pixels.

Yeah. Although it is a very complex topic. Yeah. The the nice thing is um it comes down to copying and pasting a number. So I'm gonna go back to ads manager. Don't oversimplify it like that. Well, give us give them give people the, you know, a bit on it, like, just what it what they're for. they're for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. So good. call. Um, we're gonna go over to events manager back here. And events manager is where your pixel lives. Think of your pixel like a social security number for your data. Oh, so this number is that, although you don't really have to worry about people getting it, unlike a social security number. Um, because you can set up like allow lists and block lists on the back end, so you can make it so that only your traffic fires stuff in there. So um, but you all you do is you copy your number. Now, if you don't have a pixel here, you'll have to make one essentially. So this connect data button here, usually will let you make a pixel. Um you do web and then you follow the prompts through.

I don't want to do it because it'll it'll make one for me. But um, if you don't have one, that's how you do it, and or reference that 40 minute tutorial. But that number, I just have to come here, include a Meta Pixel, and paste that there. And what is that doing for people? So this puts some code on our site that every time people interact with a SubmitHub page, it fires an event to Meta with this number saying, hey, this happened on our site for this number. So then that's how like Meta knows, like, oh, we're gonna put that data in your account. So if you put a different number in here, then that data is going to go to a different account. Um, if you put that data, then my number in here, that data is gonna go to my account, right? So every every pixel has its own, it's kind of like a bucket of data. Um, so we put this in here, and then we my save button is blocked by the the riverside thing. I click save.

Um, I can um grab this link, and this feature doesn't always work. So we'll this will kind of be a live test here. We might have to just edit out, but um, if I go to test events website, I can throw this link in here and you can see events firing, right? So if I come here and refresh the page, actually it might be purposeful. Oh, there it goes. Do you see how like it fired the second one? Yeah, nice. If I click on Spotify and make sure it doesn't autoplay, come back here, we get a view content. So if I open up view content, we can see submithub.com, every moment omen, we can see that it went to this track. If I open up the page view, it also has an information. If I come back up here and I click on Deezer, and then come back, we get another view content. We can see it went to Deezer.

So these are action trackers, essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The the pixel is like uh it's like a little probe. You put on your link and it reports all the information. It's like a little spy on the page. Nice. And uh that's how Facebook knows who clicked your ad, not like because they already know who clicked your ad because that's on their platform. But this is how they know, like, well, when they went to your site, did they just come here and leave? Or one, did they come here at all? Two, did they come here and leave? Three, did they come here and click on one of these buttons? And do you we said we're gonna set up this campaign in a way where it purposefully finds more people who came here and clicked one of these buttons, and it looks for less people who just come here and then just leave, like a bot, for example. Yep. So that's the pixel in a nutshell. As I said, it it's a big topic. There's like conversion API tokens, and there's like deduplication of events. It can be kind of wild, but when it comes to running campaigns like this, it just comes down to copying and pasting a number.

Um I like that version right now. Yeah, all that other shit you were alluding to sounds very confusing. Control-C. Control-V. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we have a landing page. We have a landing page that fires data to Facebook. So now we can go build a campaign and uh we're back in ads manager and we can click this create button. And immediately we're gonna get a pop-up of what type of of objective do you want to do? We want an engagement objective because in engagement you can track conversions. And um, if I mouse over this, it's like get people to view content, Contact your business, Add to Wish list, or take another action on your website or app. Well, we're trying to get people to take an action on a website, right? Our submit hub page. So that's why we're choosing engagement conversions. Technically, you can set up this exact same campaign under leads or sales. Um, but we're not trying to sell anything and we're not trying to get people's contact information. So that's why I choose engagement. It just matches most of what the action we're trying to get people to do.

Yeah. Uh as a rule of thumb, anytime Meta asks you, do you want to do this easy way out or manual? You want to do manual because they have all these um these options that are just kind of like blow up your campaign when you when you turn on the automatic stuff. So we want manual. So what are those? Because I mean, I've had some mixed reviews from like some ads gurus as far as like letting Meta's advanced AI targeting and placements and stuff. Like some people I've seen on the internet say, like, fuck it, like let them have at it, like they know what's best. Their tech's gonna be the the best for it. And then I've had people that are kind of adverse to that approach. So why, yeah, why yes or no? It's all context dependent. So if you're if you're if I'm running like a sales campaign or a lead gen campaign, where like the only way to trigger that conversion is to either one give me your email address or phone number, or two, give me money. Um, I use most of their automatic stuff now.

Okay. Um, because there's no way to like fool it, right? Like if the only way they're gonna fool the campaign is by giving me money, well, have at it. you have money? Yeah, if a robot wants to give me money, great. I don't care if you're a robot as long as I'm getting the money. So um when you're running a sales campaign, that's how it is. It only fires when you get a purchase on your site. So like you can rely on all these automatic AI things because even if they hit bots, the bots are never gonna give you a dime. And say, even with emails, too. There are some rare situations where you'll you'll run a campaign and you'll get like a flurry of like bogus emails, but like it's very rare. Um when it comes to campaigns like this, or any campaign that doesn't have a goal like that, where like there's no way to basically game it, you don't want to use any of those features because you kind of end up in like the lowest quality traffic possible that typically ends up just being bots. And you'll see when we're going through the setup of like exactly what they are. But the first one was that we don't want to use that tailored one because it'll turn on a lot of that crap.

We want it to use the manual one. Now that we made this campaign, the first thing you'll see is we have this thing that I call a campaign skeleton, which is um we have the campaign level up here, we have the ad set here, we have the ad here. Also at the top, we have campaign ad set ad. Um, this ad set is the same as ad set. This ad is the same as that ad. So this is kind of how you navigate through the tree of the of the campaign. Because you can have multiple ads in your campaign, right? We talked about that earlier, but you can also have multiple ad sets in your campaign. So, for example, you can have one ad set with five videos in it that's targeting heavy metal, and then you can have another ad set with the same five videos targeting hard rock, and then another ad set with five different videos targeting alternative rock, for example, right? So you can either have your ad sets have the same videos or they can have different videos and then different targeting across them. So you can structure your campaign a lot of different ways with this.

Um, in this video, we're just doing we're gonna just get just gonna do one ad set just to keep it simple. I usually recommend that's how everyone starts because um it gets there's already so much to learn, and I'd rather you have like a campaign that you feel you understand. Let's get the first one going, guys. Yeah. Then make your second one fancy. Then make your third one more fancy, and you're gonna see uh later some of the what it means to make it fancier. Yeah. So this I made the link for the song Omen. Um, so I'll I'm gonna call this uh Omen Streaming, and I'm just gonna put like a uh video thing in here so I know later that this is what I did uh or I'll do one more time. Um for budget. What was that? Sorry, it's just one of our past guests singing one more time. It's like it's like just quiet enough where it sounded like it came from like your house. One more time.

Beautiful, beautiful. Oh god. Shadow party alone. We're gonna turn on this feature called campaign budget. This lets us specify the budget here, and we're just gonna put $10 a day. Okay. If you put the ad set budget, you have to specify your budget on like an ad set by ad set basis, which it's just simpler to say, like this this campaign spending $10 a day. It doesn't matter if it has five ad sets in it and five ads in each, it's only spending 10 a day across the whole thing. Um, if you do it the other way, it's easy to accidentally like spend too much money. Yeah, yeah. So so this way is is this is the way I do it most time, anyways, but um that's the justification behind why. And then we can click next. And now we're in the ad set. You see at the top in the side, it jumped over to new engagement ad set. Yeah. And uh the first thing it's asking us is where is our conversion occurring? Well, our conversion's happening on Submit Hub, which is a website, so we're gonna choose website. And if you recall, when we were in events manager testing our page, it was firing a view content event when people took the action we wanted to recur.

So that's why we're going to choose view content. And if you were using feature FM, you'd use feature from click. If you're using hyped it, um, there'd be another event in here called hyped it smart link click. If you're using smart noise, they use view content or SM Smart Link click. So every platform has their own like rules for what they do. So just keep in mind if you're using something else, uh, this might not be view content. The nice thing about starting with Submit Hub is view contents what's known as a standard event. So it it's already in your account. So there's no like pre-setup, which is why I use Submit Hub as like the everyone's first campaign. It just makes life easier. And it's free. Look at him. Just trying to make things easier. Yeah. That's all we're trying to do here. This is a complex topic It's complicated, man. But important. So important. Yeah. That's why we have Andrew on a second time. Yeah. So that's the conversion setup. moseying on down. Um anything I'm skipping here, just assume that you're going to leave as default.

Um, like you can set like start and end dates, and you can set um ad set spending limits. Don't mess with that here, but that's what that is. Now we get to the first what the fuck moment. Okay Um, So there's this thing called Advantage Plus Audiences. And by the way, everyone's ad account is on a slightly different version. So yours might look slightly different here. Um, I'll try to explain the different options, but it either looks like this, or it might say advantage plus audiences and then have a second section called audience. Um, either way, you don't want to use their default thing. This is one of their AI features where it's suggested audience will also reach people beyond any custom audience, age, gender, detail targeting. Basically, we don't care what you say, we're gonna do whatever we think is best, which that's what causes your campaign to go off the rails and end up in bot hell, for at least for like what we're doing here. Um, so we don't want to use their thing. We want to do further limit your audience and reach a limited audience. So they they they're purposely making this sound like a bad thing.

Yeah, what the fuck, man? So that's what you want to do though. And this is like the how it used to be. Like this this setup was started only becoming a thing in like October of 2025. Um, so like seven months ago or so. Um, this is the old school method of targeting where they actually respect what you're saying. And if I go to ages now, I can now say, okay, now I only want to target 18 to 50, for example. Um, and then I can turn off this another stupid option, use as a suggestion. I don't want you to use that suggestion. I want you to listen to me. Wow. They are really trying to just take over. Yeah. And so if you didn't do further limit your audience, basically, even if you said 18 to 50, it's really 18 to 65 plus. And what ends up happening is all your conversions being 65 plus because it's just like bots clicking their 65 plus. So this is one of the big gutches that causes a lot of people's campaigns to go awry because of um this feature makes it like meta is very pushy about like you should really use this. You got you've got a 10% lower cost per result.

They're lying. Okay. Big surprise, Mark Zuckerberg lying. Shocker. But you know, as I said, it does work well with with their biggest customer base, which is e-com businesses, right? So when I'm doing like e-commerce ads for sales, um, I do use all those features. It's just for meta doesn't meta doesn't care about like artists, right? It's like we're like a drop in the bucket. Nobody cares about artists. We do. We care about you. We care. I I looked up Amazon's advertising budget for the year. Amazon alone, their marketing budget annually is bigger than the entire revenue of the music industry. So never mind Walmart or whatever and all these other companies. Um this why like everything they do is isn't designed for you. It's designed for people with a Shopify store. Mm hmm. This is why we brought in the expert.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is why you might see people online talking about how great these features are, is because in their niche, um, these features may be great. It's a little situational dependent. Mm hmm. Uh locations. This is also a little bit varies, but like I use this preset list called tier one, tier two that I will show you. Um it's probably all the countries you would expect. Um, it's like the Americas, Europe, Oceania. Um did you make that list or did Meta give you that? This is my list. Okay. All right, cool. Yeah. And um it it can change over time. Like, for example, recently I removed Singapore. So I think this might actually still be in here. Oh no, it's not. Okay. Um, Singapore now requires like extra verification to run ads in their country. So basically a lot of people just don't do that and just skip Singapore. Um, I had Turkey off the list for a while.

Recently, I've been including Turkey. I just don't have that in the saved list. Um, so it's not it's not an exact science, but the the way that I came up with this list was I I Googled like country tiers for marketing. I started trying stuff, and then I started seeing like, well, what's actually working? Like which countries are converting good, and then I also see them turning into Spotify streams, and then which ones seem like they're converting good, but no one's streaming. And I would start pruning that list over time. Um, and that's how Turkey got removed and then came back because I started seeing like a lot of people are having great results with Turkey. Do you also incorporate like some of your top countries that are streaming your music as well? Is that coming into play? It can, yeah. Um, so like if someone knows they do really good in India or the Philippines, then it's worth trying that. It's just some of those countries in particular, for those two can be kind of tricky to target because of like one, there are like a lot of click farms and bots and stuff like that in the in those countries because the cost of labor is so cheap. Um, and the cost of server space is is like often cheaper because land's cheaper.

Also, there there's often a very big like wealth disparity in those countries. I mean, there's a big wealth disparity in America too. But in those countries, like the rural part of the country might not have like windows or air conditioning, and then you go to the city and it's like going to New York City. You know, it's it's like the city life is very much like what we have in in a lot in like most of the the country, but then you go to the rural areas and it's like, whoa, like this is like might as well be a different country. Um, and so often when I'm targeting those countries, I will focus on the cities because like those are the people who actually like pay for streaming services and who have like good internet and and stuff. So like there's less likely to be like problems with bots and also it's not necessarily always bots, it's like if you're on a free plan of Spotify, you can't listen to any song you want. So even if they click your ad and they're on the free version, instead of playing your song, it shuffles your artist radio, which might play another artist's music first. And in in India, it's like 23% of people pay for Spotify, which is pretty low, right? In the US and Canada and UK, it's like 75, 80% pay for spot.

Well, I don't know if that's how many pay for it, but when I look at my streaming data on the back end, I see the streams I'm getting, it's like 70, 80% of people paying for it. And in India and the Philippines, it's like 20 to 25% of people paying for Spotify. Makes sense. Interesting. But if you do want to target those places, do it in like a separate campaign with a separate landing page and um focus on the cities. And the reason why you want to split it is because if it goes off the rails, then you can just turn it off separately without interfering your the more like safe campaign. But we have our countries, we have our ages. Typically, I'm just gonna do all genders most of the time, unless like there's like a very, very, very good reason to do it, but most of the time there's not. Um, and then detailed targeting is where we put in some artists, or more accurately, genres in most cases. So, like this song um is like uh alternative metal thing, which alternative metal is not targetable anymore. But like for me, I would do metal core and probably heavy metal, which is like not accurate, but think don't think of the targeting as like I'm targeting this exact thing.

It's more like, well, this is a metaphor I've used a couple of times. Don't think of the targeting like parking your boat at the dock. Think of your targeting like steering the ship in the right direction. Damn. You're just kind of aiming the ship there. He's good, folks. Nautical metaphor. I love a good nautical metaphor. Yeah. Captain, Captain Southworth leading leading us to land. Oh shit. Give this guy a little captain's hat. For some reason, Lincoln Park and Metallica didn't make the cut. Oh man. But Korn and Aveng Sevenfold did. Okay. So it's very arbitrary what they but they pruned. Like as I said, it used to be you can target Lincoln Park, Deftones and Limp Bizkit and Nu Metal and Alt Metal and Seven Dust and all these like artists, but then they just they removed like 90% of artists. So should do you think that people should like select an artist though, like the best thing they can cut, like that's available, or is it should they stick to genre if they just seriously don't see any artists that are even close? I mean, what are your thoughts?

If you don't see any artists that are close, go with genres. Okay. Um, but if you see artists that are like reasonably close, include them. Because for example, Coldplay's still in there in the 1975, I'm pretty sure still in there, and Ed Sheeran's in there. Okay. So a lot of like the big pop artists are in there. Yeah. Um, like Foo Fighters is in there. It's it's just like it used to be you could get pretty niche with with the targeting, like Meshuggah and Periphery, which are like pretty like progressive metal bands, like pretty niche, used to be in here. Um, so it used to be like you had this really granular targeting for most genres. Yeah. Um, and now it's only like the big pop or EDM stuff still has like big artists, like big, big artists. I mean, it's weird that Korn and Avenged Sevenfold managed to squeak by um because they're they're way smaller than than a lot of the artists that got removed. I mean, they're still huge, right? But like compared to Metallica, you know, you can park or like the biggest bands in those genres. So do your best.

Remember, it's it's about steering the ship. You can also try non-music targets if you think it makes sense. So if you're doing like uh synthwave, targeting Cyberpunk 2077, Blade Runner, the movie Drive, like that can make sense because like those soundtracks and the the vibe of those movies kind of matches well with your with your sound. Like I've had good results targeting for for my band who has kind of alt-metal, maybe like a little new metal-y, targeting things from the 2000s, like Hot Topic, Vans, Warp Tour, Monster Energy, Halo, Call of Duty 4, like kind of things that like a millennial who grew up with that music would remember. And then remember earlier, I you saw an ad I had with video games in it. I I paired that with that. So it's like I'm showing nostalgic like video games with our music over it and lyrics to people who are interested in a lot of those nostalgic things. And it worked. I think that's so huge. Like I think everyone needs to know which non-music things their music can pair with.

Yeah, it's just so powerful. Yeah, it's good for social media stuff too. Yeah, yeah. Um, you've probably you've talked to at least someone who's done the whole like burner TikTok account strategies. Okay. Um, that's that a lot of times like becomes uh super clutch, knowing like this stuff. You can go like, okay, well, people that like my music like rom coms, let's make a page on TikTok that just puts our music on rom coms and posts two times a day. You know. So that's our targeting. Um, sometimes I'll do like define further Spotify, but recently I've I've kind of realized that doesn't really matter as much. Cause again, this is about steering the ship, not not taking it to the exact dock or whatever. I don't know enough nautical terms Starboard. Port side. I've been on a cruise four times. Um so yeah, that's the targeting. Uh languages do all languages unless you're doing something that's not English or Spanish. Like if you're doing if your songs in like German or Japanese or something, you might want to play with the language thing.

Um, but even a lot of the times they'll still kind of just ignore it and just let meta figure it out. Um, so typically all languages. So I had to go in and just choose from a drop-down um who's like the advertiser here. So there's this thing called a meta-ad library, and just Google it. It's actually very helpful. Meta ad library. And um, you can see anyone's ads. So anyone that's running ads, you can see all the ads they're running. All you have to do is type in their Facebook page and you'll see all the ads. Um, which is great for spying on people. Yeah. Or running ads, right? Because if you can go in there, you can see the ads and then sort them by time and look at the ads they've been running for the longest amount of time. If they've been running it for a long time, it's probably doing good. Yeah. So that means you can steal it. Um, not literally, right? But like steal the structure and the vibe, like, oh, cool. I feel like an artist. Like, that's a that's a cool hook. That's a cool like visual aesthetic. Let me go make my own version of that. Um very helpful.

But that's what this information is for. It'll tell people like, you know, this ad's being run for this band, and it's it's being run by this person or this company. Dude, that's huge. Yeah. Holy shit. Let's not gloss like rewind that back and listen to that. Because I didn't know that existed. And I think that's extremely helpful. I mean, this is like, I mean, you know, we just made a video about um like sorting your own reels by you know, most viewed to kind of get an idea of what's working. This is kind of like the version of that of like if someone's running an ad for that long, you're right. There's no way that it's not working. If you guys just learned about meta ads library like us, make sure you like the video. Drop us a comment, subscribe to the channel. Where else are you finding this shit? Honestly. Oh, speaking of, you're gonna announce a giveaway in the uh intro. Oh, yeah. So now would be a good time to tell them what they have to do to have entered the giveaway. We're gonna help get you guys started running your own ad campaigns. We're gonna give away, I think, two hundred dollar packages of, I don't know if uh, I guess Meta has probably some type of gift card or something.

We can get you guys started on ad campaigns. And so we should have them comment. All you gotta do is drop a comment with the money bag emoji. Money bag emoji. Money bag emoji and the chart going up. Because that's what your ads are gonna look like. Yeah. We need both emojis. Yep. You're entered to win one of two hundred dollar gift cards to get your ad campaign started. That's pretty good. Yeah, Hell yeah. That's pretty good. Let's go. Uh, this is what the Meta Ad library looks like too, in case you're curious. So come in here, you type in a page, it lets you choose it. And so like I search for Deftones, and um, I can see they're running two ads right now. This one's for a show, right? It's access link, London see you again this summer. Um, and then uh uh I can turn off active ads, and you'll you can see some historical ads. It doesn't go back forever, but it shows you ads that they're no longer running. Um that's crazy to me, dude. You'll see big bands often run different ads than small bands, because like, I mean, they are still running like a streaming ad. If I click listen now, this is like familiar, right?

Yeah, I don't know why it's in German. Oh, they're probably running this to Germany, so they translated the page. But like they're using a landing page and probably a conversion campaign. Wow. To do this. And even at Deftones scale, but a lot of times big bands don't run ads like this anymore because like they already have the fans. Um, and there's other things they can do that will be like more cost effective. Yeah, like tickets, and merch packages and exactly. Yeah, like once you have the audience, a lot of your ads turn into how can we like monetize our audience or like make sure they know about our shows? Because, like, how often do you see someone like, I can't believe you came to town last week? I had no idea. I've been waiting to see you for years. And so every band runs a ton of ads on usually every platform, but very much meta to make sure their fans know about their shows. Because you can be like, I want to run this ad in 25 miles around London, for example, and only show it to people that follow us on Facebook and Instagram who have watched our videos in the last six months. I hate to interrupt this episode, but guys, I got one thing on the mind right now, and it's data.

I can't stop thinking about it. All the artists in 2024 are winning because of data. They know who their fans are, they have access to their fans. Do you? Spotify's not telling you who your fans are. Apple Music ain't telling you who your fans are. But our friends over at DistroKid created a feature called hyperfollow. Every single release, you can set up a pre-save campaign with a HyperFollow and get access to every single fan's email address. Now you can let them know when you have a show coming up, when you're dropping exclusive merch, when you're going live. And without the data, you're just bound by the algorithms of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. No more relying on those platforms. We're going straight to our fans. DistroKid is the best DIY distributor. You can upload unlimited music for a ridiculously low rate. And you're gonna have access to features like hyperfollow. So omtdistro.com, You're gonna get 30% off when you sign up for DistroKid, and you can start collecting your fans' data today. Henry, let's get back into it. Next thing is placements, and you'll see another little evil badge here with Advantage+ on. So we want to go to show more settings, and we want to just do Instagram.

And specifically, you want this. So Instagram feed, profile feed, explore home, stories, reels. Even though we're running Facebook ads, uh Facebook placements are the it's like a lower traffic quality. And I don't I usually start everyone off on Instagram. And if it makes sense for the genre, after like a couple hundred reliable conversions that worked well, then I will consider starting to try Facebook and see if it does well. Because even like country, it has like a very wide age demographic. So there's a lot of people on Facebook that might convert. But if you're doing something that would be considered like an older genre, then Facebook might actually just be the better platform. So you want to try it at some point, but if you start it too early, it's it's like there's just more bots there, and it ends up going off the rail. So you want to wait till your pixel kind of like is learned what is a good conversion. And then when you start doing Facebook, it like knows to avoid the crap. At least it's my theory as to why it works like that.

That's a good one. Yeah, so much game right now. These are real tactical tips. So now we can name this guy. So we're targeting tier one two countries, we're targeting Instagram only, and then we're targeting just like genre slash artist. And that's our ad set. Okay, next, we're into the ads. And um, first thing you got to pick Facebook page, Instagram profile. If you don't see it here, you might have to go in and link it, but there'll be a button that says like log in with Instagram to link it. We're creating an ad. You can use existing posts as well, which there are certain reasons you would um do that. But most of the time I'm creating an ad because like if you have like a coming up the new song, you're not gonna have all your ads posted to your Instagram ahead of time, you know. Um and you wanna be able to iterate and try new stuff. So we're gonna up, we're gonna be uploading ads here.

So that's a good call. It's like well, if I had something pop off organically, probably wanna include that one, right? Yeah, but to his point, even if you plan to use them on socials, he wants you to start this campaign the second your song drops, right? So the timing might not jive. Um right? Is that is that that's what I'm hearing at least? It's like, yeah, you might have eight videos in the tuck that you're gonna post, but if I had a video pop off organically before, I might toss that in the ad set. Well, I mean, you know, I would be it could be one of the eight for sure. So for example, um, there's someone who we ran a campaign in the song like a couple of years ago when it came out, but he's been posting hard for this song in the last couple of months, and he's had some really high performing posts. So he looked at like the five best performing posts he's had in the last few months. And we go we went and launched a campaign where every ad in the campaign was an existing high performing post on his page, so that not only were we testing out high performing posts, but we were also um all that engagement from the ads now shows in those posts of his page. And um, we did get some awesome winners from that.

And that that's totally something you can do. It's just a lot of work. Should all of your ad creatives be at least able to be posted on social media, or do they look and feel like ads and you wouldn't actually want to post them to your profile? Good question. Both. Okay. Well, I guess I guess the answer is yes. Yes, yes, you may have ads um that that don't look like they belong, is really what I mean. Okay, so like um a lot of your ads will be post type stuff, right? Yeah. Um, but it's it's not unusual to have stuff that like feels it would feel weird if you were to post it on your page. Okay. Um, like for example, my band came out with an album a month ago as a filming this, and we have like a main TikTok, and then we have like a bunch of burner TikToks that we post different content on. We don't post the burner TikTok content on our Instagram, but we're like the video game post. That would be weird on your main page.

We have a we have a page that's just like nostalgic video games with our music. Yep. I don't post that on Instagram. I do post it on trial reels, some of them that the best performing ones that I feel the most confident about because trial reels don't show up on your page, they only get pushed out to non-followers. And I do run them as ads. Um so that that's kind of in that vein. But sometimes you'll have an ad that's like way more like salesy. like it feels like it's an ad. A lot of the the in some situations, like an ad that's very direct, like go do this thing, can work really good, but in other times it doesn't. So, but and that's an example of another ad you wouldn't want to post, you know. Yep. Um my experience, the modern day the best ads don't seem like ads or almost feel like ads these days, you know what I mean? Yeah, um, our website URL is just that submit hub link that we made. Okay. And then we get to your ad creative. So I'm gonna do setup ad creative video ad. And I'm gonna make sure you turn off site links if it's on.

Um this will like basic. It's like this is another one of those stupid features that like make no sense to have everyone. There are use cases for this, but it's basically it's like, oh, you're using submithub.com. Here's a bunch of other links on Submit Hub that you might want to add to your ad. None of these are your links though, right? There's other random people. But for this type of campaign, you wouldn't want this. No. Now media, you can upload your ads here. So you can do upload and upload them. I already have them uploaded, so I'll just kind of click them. You can add up to 10 videos per ad. It used to be at the copy and paste your ad to have one ad per thing, but now you can actually just add them. So I'll add like a the diversity of ads here so you can see some. I just gotta kind of zoom in. So this is one of the video game ones. This is like an atmospheric one. This is a lyric video one, video game one. Um performance one and um visualizer one Kashi one.

Yeah, so like when we're doing our eight, right? Let's just use the eight um kind of magic number that you've uh thrown out there. Um, you know, we've heard, I think even you might have said our you know, in the first episode, having different parts of the song, right? Could be, you know, different variables. What else, right? Like how different should the eight be? Like what should they, what kind of things should we be trying across those eight ads? With eight, I would probably do um four parts of the song to visual aesthetics. Okay. So uh I'm gonna click next because I chose, I think I chose 10, but I did that to show you more. Um we want to choose listen now as our call to action. This is what the button says on the ads. We want listen now. And then when I oh yeah, then last thing, turn all this crap off if any of it's on. It's another like gotcha for meta. Um but now we'll see the ads, like I can kind of walk you through why I'm doing some of these videos. So when I say visual aesthetic, I mean like like one is like okay, this is like a video game thing.

Um this one is a lyric video cut. This one is a lip sync performance thing. This one is a visualizer thing. So like pick two visual aesthetics, like performance video and video games, and then do four parts of the song for each. And that would be your eight. Okay. Um, there's a lot of ways to do it, but no, for sure. Well, yeah, just to kind of simplify it as far as if we are just doing our first one or um you don't want to dive in. So okay, cool. And so um video games, kind of just vibey footage. Of course, it's going slow. Lyric video. And fun fact, my company, Southworth media, we can we make those lyric videos if anyone wants one. Oh shameless plug. Okay. Shameless plug. And uh, this is like another video game one performance one that you saw before.

So, like this, I filmed like five of these, just different parts of the song. Uh-huh. Visualizer that I made on DistroKid with their Visi tool for like eight dollars. Okay. This didn't do that well, but I have had this do well in the past. It's just like it's eight dollars or something, so it's like it's such an easy thing to try. If you're already getting like in my case, I'm like, I'm gonna spend a couple grand on this campaign. I don't care about $9 or $8. Um, this is a tool called Kashi, which is a tool you can make kind of like vibey footage with lyrics. Um the the video game stuff I use, I made with a tool called Flowstage. Um they're tools for music artists to make easy creative like this, usually for TikTok, but I use them for ad creatives as well. Um this is another Kashi, I believe, just in a different visual aesthetic. This is a flow stage of me finding like footage from TikTok that kind of fits the vibe of the song. Like kind of kind of video gamey, just like of a of kind of like a 2000s era looking room.

Like I don't know if you guys remember the stereo system from back in the day, but like it's very nostalgic. And this is an example of an artwork. Or no, this is not. This is a different one. This is one of the more salesy ones. This is one I would never post, but it's like new alternative metal for your playlist. It's got this vibey background footage, sounds like all these bands that I I specifically made, and then it animates to show the artwork on top of it. You wouldn't post this, it's too salesy, but sometimes this works really good as an ad. In fact, like for a lot of stuff, this will work good as an ad. Um, for the last couple of years, this was our default um ad creative for at our agency. Now we've gone into ads that look more like organic and TikToky. Um, but it's still a mixed bag of what does better for different campaigns. So that's why it's important to try multiple types. Yeah. Your text often I'll do something like for fans of alternative metal. Um you could put in a lyric quote as well.

Um, something short and sweet that kind of matches the vibe of the song. On a scale of one to 10, how important is this text in comparison to what's happening in the video? It's like a two. Okay. Yeah. So don't stress about it. Because like even I've been in there being like, what should I write? For the ad text. Number one most important thing is the song. After that, it's the part of the song slash like the what video is being shown. Those are pretty both equally important. After that, it's the text on screen. And then after that, it's the text off screen. Okay. In terms of priorities. Yeah, this stuff. Okay. And then the targeting somewhere in the middle there. So like I would say like song, video, then targeting, then text off screen in terms of like priority of what will help improve the campaign. Okay.

And that's it, right? So like you all all 10, in this case, 10 ads are in this one ad, and we could actually publish this, and this would be a finished campaign. So with the text, with the text being the off-screen text being not that important, it's not worth trying like 10 different versions of that. Is it? I mean, like again, like getting started, like it's it's gonna be not that big of a return, right? If you have a couple of immediate ideas, by all means throw a couple in, but sure. Um but don't like kill yourself over. If you're spending more than like 90 seconds, thinking about text you're parking up the wrong tree. Okay, cool, cool. Good good to know. For this type of thing at least, yeah, because it's all just the visual is is 90%. Yeah. The song and the visuals, 90% of the game for this. Okay, good. Okay, bet. So so now we've got our our uh our campaign created. So now I think perfect perfect segue into um walking through kind of like an analysis on a few different campaigns that you've ran, and really want to have people understand like what you're looking for, what worked, what didn't work, the timing of all of it, right? Like how far into the campaign, did you make any changes?

What were the objectives of the campaign? Anything that surprised you maybe. Um, so really just a little bit deeper dive into a few real life examples that you've done. So, first campaign I pulled up is an example of a campaign that one did have a massive budget, but um how massive we talking? Eight grand. Okay, eight grand. So eight grand. Um, and like this is one of my band songs. Uh a lot of times people will be like, Well, why would you spend so much on on this song, for example? And like a lot of times when it's my music, I don't I don't do what I do for my music when I'm working with like other people's budgets, because with my case, I can make YouTube videos and content out of like what I'm doing. So, for example, this the first campaign I launched for this song was 61 cents conversion. And I was after a lot of testing and trial and error. I if this was a campaign I was I was running, like let's say I didn't have this job where I basically run Facebook ads for a living and tell people how to do it and run campaigns for other people. I would have killed this campaign way earlier because like it's an expensive yeah, you're you're above that 50 cent threshold.

Yeah, exactly. And and but like I'm in my case, I'm like, well, I'm just gonna keep trying shit because I can if I figure out what works, it's gonna be a cool case study, and I can bring this up in podcasts, right? So YouTube videos about how it works. So that's the benefit that I have that like if you're running a campaign like this, you you would have killed this much earlier. Okay. Um, because if I pull up the charts for this campaign and I go to cost per result, it's gonna be kind of small. You can see like it started off even higher than 66, like it was near a dollar in this graph 70 cents, 80 cents. Um, and eventually down by the end, I get it down to the 40. So I did do a lot of trial and error. Like if I open this up, 31 ad sets. Woo. So what were you trying? Like, like what were you generally trying differently within all those ad sets? So it's a mixture of audiences and ads. This was this was kind of an experiment to see like, well, what if I went a lot more granular with my testing and said, let me do um, I actually don't remember what my naming convention was for all these. Um a barcode ad.

Okay. So the barcode ad was kind of a visualizer thing I made. Um, you'll see why I called it the barcode ad. It kind of looks like a barcode. Um, and so I tried like granularly testing, like what if I put a small amount of money in each of these and see how they perform, which one's the winner. Um, and then I also tried, I I think these were like performance videos. Um, and then I found out that ad four of the barcode ad was the winner. So then I split tested that across a bunch of different targets. This was when alternative metal and new metal was were still targetable when I launched this campaign. Um and then I tried these other ads that I made from stock footage, like this is the skeleton ad. And then eventually I had a lyric video. So this lyric video ad um was the breakdown, but somewhere else there's another lyric video ad. And some of these ads have multiple videos in them, too, right? Like this one had six or five in it. Um I had an ad that was like four earshot fans, the same barcode ad but with text on it, and four alt metal fans. I made this crappy lip sync video that I still cringe at today.

Um it's okay. I I cringe at myself every time I watch my podcast. Yes, yeah. It's you gotta you gotta push through the cringe. Yeah. Um Absolutely. But like, you can see all the different costs per result, like four dollars a conversion, four dollars, a dollar twenty-eight, eighty cents. By the time we were done, we we got it down to the forties. And actually, there was one that was 29. Um, but I believe this was this actually is what that other campaign is. So what I did with this other campaign is I broke it that best performer into its own thing. And oh no. Oh, it's because this is a glitch in meta. Um, this actually is inside of that other campaign. You see how when I highlighted it, it's only showing this this dynamic campaign. Um, it's just that's just a display glitch for meta. But in here, um, I'm using Kashi, which is which is that video tool I was showing before. I made um nine more videos in Kashi, and this got the cost down to 29 cents and save the day.

So, do you think that that was the variable then? Was just the the creative of the videos being made in Kashi? It's the only difference. Yeah. So like if we look if we look at this um this this one here, this um tier one two broad. I tried this exact one here, tier one two broad with this at barcode ad, it was 59 cents, right? And I tried very similar, like HP HP is just a different country set, it's basically tier one, but and then um I tried so many things with with that tier one. The moody filter core is 51. So the only difference is the videos, yeah, in there. So in your campaign analysis, is the holy grail of metrics is basically the only one that I hear you continuously talk about is cost per conversion. Like that that's it, right? Yeah, essentially. I mean, yeah, there's if you want a song it's like the cost per conversion, but then after that, it's like what is the um streams listener saves playlist adds on Spotify, right? Okay, you can have a you can have a thousand conversions cause five hundred listeners, eleven hundred streams, and two hundred and fifty saves, but you can also have a thousand conversions cause 800 listeners, 3500 streams, and 600 saves, right?

So same number of conversions, just radically different results after the conversion, because like in one case, a lot of the people that converted didn't listen to 30 seconds or just bailed. Um, and in one case, the stream per listener was like two, and another case the stream per listener was like three or four. So in the save rate, what percentage of people save the song? So all those things matter too. Um so what do you do with that information though, right? Like, well, if they if you convert them to go listen to your song and they don't play it or listen to it, I assume that they didn't like the song, right? Is that a music problem? Yeah, yeah. Does it just does it assume that well, because they clearly liked it enough to click? They liked that part. So then, yeah, does that mean that does that mean that the whole song then isn't something that they like, or like if you did if you tested like so it can mean different things. Like one, one thing that's definitely true is if they convert on like a chorus and then your song is a long intro, that can actually be like a problem. It's not always a problem, but sometimes it is.

Yeah. And um, it could also just be the song, like they like that moment, but they don't really like the song. Like it's it's the whole song isn't connecting with them. They just let that moment get them to click. Yep. And and a lot of times there's not much you can do about that. You could try, of course, like making new ads and seeing if the new ads get you better engagement. And I have seen that happen, but the it's totally true that sometimes it's just a song thing. But are you constantly monitoring Spotify for artists uh data to then understand whether you should still kill a campaign? Because in my mind, if I'm having an issue where people are bailing 30 seconds in, even if I'm getting the conversions, I feel like that's a waste of money, then potentially. Like I would almost like I don't know, like when do you decide when to kill something based on solely Spotify for artists data tied in with the Facebook or you know, the uh meta ads data? It's different in every case, so it's hard to give like a definitive answer. But is there like a threshold that you like as far as conversions are X and then you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe maybe if we can do that. I like to see at a worst case scenario, at least 50% of the conversions turning into listeners. Okay, so that means at least for a thousand conversions, at least 500 listeners. I like to see at least um two to three streams per listener, so at least a two, basically. So that's where I get you should have more streams and conversions because worst case half off drop off to listeners, and then worst case two streams per listener gets you back to a thousand. I like to see a save rate of around 50% from the ads alone. So if you're getting 500 listeners from the ads, you should have like around 250 saves from the ads. Okay. And some of those numbers, you know, if if they're a little bit off, it's fine. It's just if it's a problem if you're like, I get a thousand conversions, but I got 300 listeners. It's like, okay. Do you have one of those problems that we we saw in this video where we're like we have advantage plus audiences on, advantage plus ages and placements on? Cause that could be causing the drop-off, but it could be that it's something with like a mismatch in what people are thinking they're going to versus what they're hearing when they get to the other side, which could be fixable, but it might not be fixable depending on the song.

Yeah. But if you get a thousand conversions and you're like, you know, you're getting like three thousand streams just from your ads alone with like 700 saves. That means like practically every person that's converting is listening and then saving, and then maybe adding a song to a playlist and then listening multiple times. That's that's really good. Put every dollar you have into that ad campaign. Yeah. Well, and also the third layer of like if you're trying to get a song to like blow up, and ideally be that song you drop thousands into, you want to see what the algorithm's gonna do. You can have songs that have really great cost per conversion, really great engagement, but they the algorithm doesn't push them out. And you can have songs that have kind of a weak cost per conversion, but really great engagement, really great algorithm. So sometimes a 40 cent cost per conversion campaign will be a better campaign than a 20 center, if it has those other two variables on it. But if you have all three, like in all my big case studies where I'm showing, like, you know, this song at 10 million streams, or or we blew we got this artist a 300,000 monthly listeners in like four months or whatever.

It's like it had all three, and that's why it blew up like that. So if something is proving to be exceptional, to Henry's point, is your recommendation that they continue to even if it's a dollar a day or whatever, continue to spend if it proved to 3X the you know saves for or sorry, streams per convert, right? If it hits some of those metrics or even higher, there's no reason to stop it, right? Totally. Yeah, okay, cool. We're ultimately trying to get to our winner and just run our winner until it stops winning. If you have like $5,000 to spend over a year, ideally at the end of that year, it'd be pretty good if you had one song you dropped three grand into, and then your other five releases shared the remaining two. Because, you know, you want to put most of your money behind the winners and as little as possible behind the losers. That's why I was saying, like, this is an example of a campaign that um probably should have gotten killed earlier. Like if we were a band that was like trying not to like spend an arm and a leg and trying to you know be a lot more conservative with our budget.

I wouldn't, I would never have gotten to the point where I found the winner, which like that's kind of the like a just a fact of life. Like you can you can try infinite things to improve your campaign, but the more you try, the more money you have to spend. So this this is an example of one that should have been killed earlier. The ironic thing is if I killed it earlier, I never would have found the winner, right? But you don't have infinite money. So you you have to pick your battles. No, we don't, Andrew. We're independent artists, my friend. We have no money. Exactly. Exactly. So that's why I try to give this as a caveat. Like, I shouldn't have spent eight grand in this, but I get to use it in podcasts like this. There you go. one more example campaign. Yeah, yeah. What's another one? Yeah, yeah. Let me see. Um, I pulled up a couple. Um, this one is a $500 campaign. Okay, this one is it one that just kind of worked right out the gate. Um, 29 cents per conversion, $500 campaign. We didn't have to try that much. In fact, so every time you see HP that stands for high pay, that's just like the highest paying Spotify countries.

Think of it as like tier one countries. Okay. Um, and so 25 cents per conversion tier one. Um, we did add tier two. And essentially, like the campaign um when we forced all the money into the tier ones, the tier ones get more expensive, but by letting meta kind of balance between tier ones and tier twos, it ended up get getting a lot of tier one conversions for cheap, but it couldn't get all the tier one conversions for cheap. So that's why we like in some cases, I'll turn off tier one, tier twos to force it to do this. But when we did that, this cost went up. So we kept both. But like just right out the gate, right? Just kind of worked. Um, and we didn't have to do anything fancy. And and the interesting thing, is one of the ad sets is targeting Twilight. Um, and other like similar things from that era, and the campaign's structured differently, it's just got like a million ads inside of it. This is an example of artists provided social media footage, and all the visuals kind of have this um aesthetic to them, right?

It's kind of like dreamy in a way. Um, and in the past, we we she had clips that were like very reminiscent of um like Twilight, because Twilight has that kind of like bluish tint with the overexposure and stuff like that. And a lot of her ads kind of have that vibe. So that's why we targeted Twilight and Co. So you were targeting something based on just like the visual aesthetic of the videos? Yeah, well, the the song, this song wasn't like that, but her last song that we did it, it visually kind of looked like that. Yeah. And the song felt like it could have been from that movie. Okay. See, cause that that I can more get down with, right? Like the soundtrack. But she's not singing about vampires. But it could have been in the soundtrack. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it sounded like that. And and so, like, because that worked so well in her last song, we did it again here. Cause the visual still kind of matched this this song didn't have the same vibe, but it actually did really good. Wow.

In that too. And but honestly, like just the broad pop music one did pretty great overall, like 27 here and 30 here. Um go to ages. And so how quickly how quickly did it show you this pretty solid cost per conversion? Like after the three-day learning phase, like you were already just seeing it, and then it was kind of like let it ride. It looks like in this case we actually just did $15 a day even across the duration of the budget. And um it just immediately did really good. Nice, essentially. Okay. I think this is part of the reason you guys got just dial in your brand. If your brand is locked in, it makes stuff like running ads way easier and finding your people easier. I think in hindsight, we would have seen this increase here after we made whatever changes here, and we would have done some adjustments to that. But I think we saw the overall campaign was doing so good that we we just kind of like had it on autopilot just to be like, This looks like it's slapping. Um, because even even like you know, 30s is still still quite good.

And then keeping all this 20 something cents in mind, um, it was good. But I think in hindsight, I probably would have done more testing to see if we could just get rid of all tier two and only do tier one because um tier one pays more. So if you're getting the same cost per result, you're gonna make potentially twice as much money on the streaming. So that's a play. Absolutely. Um this is a new song um for a like country rock artist. Um it's doing 22 cents a conversion. And he has this dope music video where he like rented out like a set that had like an old, like kind of uh vigilante, like kind of cowboy set where you would have uh, you know, you know what I mean? I'm trying to I don't know if I'm describing this right, but like a kind of like a western town where you would have like a cowboy like uh shoot him up. Yeah, like kind of like a saloon type of shit.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so they have like they have like fake guns and they have like this whole set they rented out. It was really cool music video. Um music video doing pretty good for those ads, right? We 30 cents, 29 cents, 32 cents, great. Um, I went and I made some ads with footage from Red Dead Redemption 2. 22 cents. So it's a um it's worth considering some of those non-artist branding things. And like in this case, it's it's I might force some money back into the music video clips for branding reasons, right? Because it it's great that we're getting like this is a pretty big difference, right? It's a 25% difference in cost per conversion. So that's like very significant when you think we might be spending three grand. Um that's like saving hundreds of dollars. So it is worth the difference.

But having a fan fall in love with a song and see the artist on screen looking cool is is more valuable, right? Because that person's more likely to fall in love with the artist as a whole, not just the song. So that's how I think about these several different things of like sometimes it's worth having a higher cost per conversion because of maybe branding elements, or maybe maybe the it's higher cost per conversion tier one, but it's like only a little bit higher, and tier one pays almost double what tier two does. So some of those trade-offs can, can actually be quite worthwhile. Yeah, God, it's there's so many things to consider, man. I know. So many things. But yeah, well, appreciate all the analysis, right? Because I mean it's it's one thing to like have the campaign set up, you know, tutorial that was huge, but then kind of seeing like what might happen, you know, because this shit is it's not a perfect science. If it was so easy, like if it was easily just be, you know, you do this and you get get this result, then advertising agencies wouldn't exist, right?

I mean, it's like it's very complex and there's a lot of different variables that can uh impact the results. And it's kind of like cool though. If you can kind of like nerd out about it, again, I think it's important for y'all to understand how it works, even if you do want to hire someone like Andrew in an agency to do it for you. Be able to at least understand what's going on, what they're doing for you. Exactly. To them, like when we meet, right, to discuss our results, yep. It's not like a completely foreign language, right? So hopefully, you know, this hopefully this has been helpful to at least like get you a little bit, you know, more knowledgeable about like how to live in meta Ads manager. Um, so that again, if you want to try your own campaign, of course, or if you start working with someone else, um, it's just a little bit easier to speak the same language. This is only that one type of campaign, right? So, like this whole video has been off of how to run campaigns for music and streaming, which is a very common campaign that a lot of people start off with. You can run ads to grow your email list, you can run ads to promote your tour. and sell tickets to your show.

You can run ads for your merch, you can run ads for Patreon, you can run YouTube ads to promote your video. So there's like a lot of you can run free plus shipping and handling funnels. So you go make some CDs and do free plus shipping and handling funnels, which we're doing. Um, and all of those have their own nuances and justifications and respective like value to your overall music brand. And um, I don't think this video would be complete without me saying you should do all the other things that being an artist entails, right? Like you should be posting on social media aggressively, um, making as good content as you can as much as frequently as possible. You should be collaborating with artists, you should be releasing music regularly, you should be touring. Ads don't exist in a vacuum, they are one tool you can use in a pool of many to promote your music. Well, this video wouldn't be complete without the rapid fire rampage. Also, all those other uses of ads, do I smell a part three in the future, maybe? Or maybe, or maybe like a workshop or something?

Like what are we showing? So um if anyone wants to see an episode of that, that sounded like a cool concept, honestly. I know for sure. Uh this is the rapid fire rampage. We are shooting another episode right after this. So we're gonna make this a really rapid rapid fire rampage. You've done one of these before. You know how they go. If you guys have found value, by the way, go ahead and like, comment, subscribe to the channel so we can keep bringing you value like this every single week. Let's get into it, starting with the short answer section. Andrew, what'd you have for breakfast today? A Chewy bar. Breakfast of champions. It's not sponsored by Chewy. What metric do beginners obsess over too much? Ooh. Um followers on, I'd say TikTok followers are a common one because followers on social media kind of don't matter that much anymore. It's it's all about like how your individual things do. Completely agree with that.

What metrics do beginners ignore too much? I think the the quality metrics of like it's different platforms but on Spotify, it's like save rate, playlist add rate stream per listener. On a social media, it's like how many shares and DMs you're getting, like the deeper metrics. I'd say a lot of people focus on the shallow ones, like how many followers, and they they don't pay attention to like the quality metrics as much. Yeah. What is one thing you just desperately want to communicate to every indie artist about ads? Try not to get too attached with certain songs having to be the one or certain videos having to be the one. Um, you don't really determine that. Like you make the best music you can, you test every song, and um you have to be willing to pivot, otherwise you're just gonna burn a bunch of money. So I've seen a lot of artists be like, I want to. This is the song. It has to be the song, and then burn a bunch of money in the process when they should have just killed it early and save the money for the next one. God, that one hurt.

I was like, damn, bro. Don't call my baby ugly, Andrew. Yeah. Sometimes you you gotta kill the babies so that other babies can survive. This next one we've kind of like answered throughout the entire episode. I want to get one concise answer right here. How can you tell if the song is the problem, the creative is the problem, or the campaign setup is the problem? So in terms of creative versus song, you you weed out the creative by trying plenty of creatives, right? So if you've if you've tried like 15 videos and nothing's moving in the right direction, it's probably just the song. Uh in terms of the campaign setup, uh a lot of the times the campaign setup will go wrong in that like you're you're getting suspiciously cheap results that aren't converting to stream. So like the more than likely you're going to break your campaign in a way that completely breaks it, not in a way that makes it slightly more expensive. Unless, for example, you're like, I'm only gonna target the US. Well, of course it's gonna be more expensive because the US is the most expensive country to target. Um, but to weed out the ads versus song, just try a bunch of visuals. To weed out the audience thing, try a bunch of audiences.

There it is. Andrew, how close are we to AI being able to run our campaigns completely by themselves? I think the visuals are the hardest problem. So I I think pretty far away because there's already automated ad tools like hyped it and smart noise, and even Submit Hub has an automated thing, and um and there's there's other options out there too. So it's the setup for the most part is just being done in like a template, and then they have some template ad creatives they'll use, and which can work. Like if you if you got a hundred bucks and you're seeing this, you're like, I'm not doing that. Hyped it and smart noise and whatever might actually be a good option for you to start. Um it's the videos that are the problem and making those things. So um I I think we're many years away because like the visuals that AI makes often aren't very good without some massaging. So that's why like we we've gotten so much more visual heavy as an agency because like I see that the path of like our value as an agency is gonna become more and more towards like the creative and tinkering and strategy element, and that's why we've gotten we've done so much into like revitalizing our visual approach to to campaigns. That's huge.

Well, last episode I asked, what is your favorite curse word? This time let's go with what's your favorite not curse word. Oh, wow. I started thinking about curse words. It could, I guess, still be a curse. Well, no, non curse word. We already my last last time I said fuck nugget. That's right. Oh, I forgot. I can't believe I remembered that. That's Still a winner, I think, of all time weirdest answers. We've ever gotten to that. Um nostalgia. That's a good one. Part one. Very nostalgic. That's good. Moving on to part two. This is the this or that. Starting with promote every song a bit or promote one song a lot. Promote every song a bit, find the winners, and then funnel more money into the winners. Conversion campaign or traffic campaign? Conversion campaign. Expensive clicks or fake friends. What the fuck is wrong with this? Expensive clicks, I guess. It's Just a sad one in general, no matter which way you go.

Artist targeting or genre targeting? Genre targeting. Performance videos or personality videos. Performance videos. Dinner with Zuckerberg or dinner with Daniel Ek? Daniel Ek. I was about to say, as much Zuck shit. That was this episode. And finally become a full time K pop artist or leave the music industry forever. I don't remember what I said last time to this, but I'll I guess this time I'll go with leave the music industry forever. It wasn't K-pop. Full-time K-pop art. Okay, wanna see it. Wow. I think you could pull it off. You could do it. He's gonna have to have like some band members, you know. AI vocals or something. I mean, It's a great voice, I just have to figure out how it works in K-pop. Yeah, there you go. Last part is the word association. I'm gonna say one word. You give me the first word that you can think of off the top of your head. You've done this before. Starting with music, marketing, campaign, optimization, CPR. Cost per result.

CPC. Cost per click. I guess I didn't think that you might just yes say what the acronym is. Make sure everyone I don't know. I didn't know. him. I was trying to think of a sassy answer like camp pickle cockroach. Just go with the real answer, Andrew. CPM. Cost per mile. Bots. Traffic. Algorithm. Audience. Metal. Core. K-pop. Demon hunters. AI. Open AI. Money printer. Money machine. Ice cream. Truck. Meta. Ads. This has been the meta ads goat, y'all. He solved them. This meta ads have been solved. Yeah. This was our first like tutorial screen share heavy episode. Drop a comment if you like this style of episode. It's, you know, in the spirit of trying new things. We wanted to try this.

We like to get tactical and give you guys real steps and you gotta see the screen for some of that, I think. Yeah, for sure. So appreciate you coming on the podcast. Until next time, Henry, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Getting the fuck out of here. Peace, y'all.