From Producing Legends to Building The Next Indie Empire ft. RushDee

In order to be successful, good enough ain't good enough. You actually have to give 150%. What are some other commonalities you've seen between all of these like legendary artists? They locked in the studio every single day, non stop. What does being independent really mean now? Own your process, own your creative control. That's true independence. I had a producer that argued with me he's like, yo, it's been six months and I haven't got any placements. Your s*** ain't fire. Yeah. But no, man, you are a f***ing studio rat, bro. Oh, we're recording. We're live. We're always recording. What's up? What's up, bro? You're a studio rat, man. I mean, I see you on our mutual friend Verse. I see you on his story in the studio, locked in at all hours of the day. I mean, it could be right now, 8 p.m., it could be 4 a.m., it could be lunchtime.

I mean, doesn't matter, right? Like, you're a studio rat, bro. Do you think that like that's what it takes to be great in this s***? Like, are are the people operating at the highest level, are they all studio rats? I guess I just don't know. So, you know what? I want to start this out with a valuable lesson that I learned. Okay, we need it. Right? And this goes back to Nipsey Hussle. Yeah. This is something I learned from Nipsey. Um, before he passed, we were working on the follow-up album to Victory. Well, yeah, to Victory Lap. Yeah. And Nipsey, shout out to DJ Cass, too, is one of my partners. Um, he produced Keys to the City. A lot of people know him from that. Yeah. But um He's in the building, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out DJ Cass in the building. Of course. Yeah, so um, so we were working on the follow-up to Victory Lap, and every single day, Nipsey would hit me. Like, yo, I need a new pack. He would hit at the same time every day, top of the top.

I need a new pack. And I would send it. And then boom, the next day, same thing. The next day, same thing. Next day, same thing. So for me, like respectfully, I will work, I was working on bigger projects at the time. You know what I'm saying? Because you don't know that something like that is gonna happen. Right. So, with all due respect, I was working on what I felt like were bigger projects at the time. So I was like, man, you just pushing, pushing, pushing. Like, I just sent you 10 packs. You know what I'm saying? With 10 beats in each pack. You know what I'm saying? I haven't made anything else yet, Nip. I haven't made anything else. Right? So this was the lesson. Every day, every day. And then finally, um, I remember like yesterday, it was a weekend, and I actually went to Chicago, and this was a Thursday. And Thursday came, I didn't hear from him. Friday came, I didn't hear from him. Saturday came, and I found out um that they were shooting a video. Him and DJ Khaled, um, and Lenny S was there, right?

So they were shooting a video, and that video ended up being higher, right? So I hit him like, yo, I see you shooting a video, I know it's gonna be fire. He's like, Yeah, man, let's keep it going, you know, da-da-da-da. Um, and I remember during that time, I said, I fit for the first time, I felt like I had a job. Because I haven't had a uh quote unquote corporate job. I've always, you know, worked for myself and uh built companies and businesses and stuff like that. So for the first time, I felt like I had a job because Nipsey was on me so much. And it was just so easy for him. You know what I'm saying? Um so it was that Saturday, and I hit him, and he actually passed the next day. Oh shit. So for like a year straight, I couldn't listen to any of his music. You know what I'm saying? Especially some because of some of the details of our conversation, right? So I couldn't listen to his music for like a year. And then it dawned on me one day.

As I'm just, you know, growing and progressing in my journey, something dawned on me, and that was, yo, you know what? In order to be successful, good enough ain't good enough. You actually have to give 150%. And a lot of people feel like if as long as they're giving 100%, that they're doing good enough. But that's the thing, good enough isn't good enough. Wow. So I learned because Nipsey was so used to, he was so comfortable operating at 150%. He was in just cruise control. He was in cruise mode. Me giving 100%, not understanding that in order to be successful, successful, you have to operate at 150%. I was so flustered by it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So in context of what you just asked me, you got to give 150%. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's what it takes. Yeah, because it's people working as hard. It's people working six times harder than Drake.

And they aren't successful as one Drake. You know what I'm saying? Wow. So you really gotta be giving your all to it. Damn. So, you know, you've worked He's a studio rat. Yeah. So it's it to answer your question. Yeah. Yes, I'm a studio You know, so you've worked alongside, obviously, you know, the late great Nipsey Hussle, Lil Wayne, Nikki, Ashanti, the list goes on and on. Just big, big, like superstar artists. Um, you know, you talked a little bit about obviously what Nipsey had in him, like just that that work ethic, bro. Like he was gonna outwork everybody. Um, what are some other commonalities you've seen between all of these like legendary artists that you've been you know fortunate enough to work alongside? Work ethic. Yeah. Work ethic. I think a lot of people uh they have a misconception, right? And that misconception is they see them on the on Instagram, they see the pictures, they see them at the club, but they don't understand that that's what they're doing on their days off. You know what I'm saying?

They don't understand that they locked in the studio every single day, nonstop. You know what I'm saying? So when they see a a future, you know what I'm saying, at the club, when they see uh uh they might see me somewhere, and it's like, oh, you just have fun. Like, no, not really. Like, I'm locked in. So I would say that's one commonality I I've uh noticed. Um, having a great team. You gotta have a team that more than everything holds you accountable, right? Because it is easy to be talented, but you might do something that someone feels is unethical, right? And we've seen that just in general, in the in all shape forms of life, right? Yeah, you got people that are successful, but they somebody might do something that's unethical, right? So it was important to have a great team. Um, what else would I say? How do you find a great team?

That's like a question we get asked all the time. We had a post recently, it was um FKI first, right? Uh so we had him on the podcast, and he one of the like most viral clips from that episode was basically talking about how you really need like five to seven people on your team who are like locked the fuck in, and like the vision is so clear for all five to seven people. The second that any of any of the team deviates from the plan and and like kind of doesn't see the vision so clearly, it's dead, right? So like the comments were flooded. Where are my team at? Yeah, literally, people like in the comment section were trying to find like, yo, I need a manager, or like, yo, I need a teammate, or whatever. Um, how do you recommend people find a team? Well, as it pertains to music, right? I would say um you have to study, because if you don't know what the valuable pieces are, then you would never be able to fully accept who those valuable people are. That's that's big.

I always say you need to know the job you're hiring for. It's Huge, man. That's something I never quite understood it coming from just you, my friend. Took Rush. Well, there's a few people before Rush, but now Rush is really like hammering the nail in. Great. Um, because yeah, it's so true. Like, if you don't even really quite fully understand what a manager is doing or should be doing, then how are you gonna how are you going to like find them valuable? How do you gauge how well they're doing? Yeah. Anything. If you've never shot your own content, how do you know the value of a content team member, right? Like a social media manager or a videographer or whatever the case may be. Right. Um, so yeah, no, that's huge. Yeah, because so again, in context of music, right? Yeah, in the past, I've met producers who want a manager, right? Um, but they don't even know how to register their splits on like a BMI or an ASCAP. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, how do you not know the difference between that and then even publishing? Yeah. A lot of creatives, they don't even they don't even know that there are other um channels to collect your money from. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They don't even know some of those things. So guess what? Uh you gotta know that to know that, hey, if you don't got a publisher, if you don't got an admin, then you have to do that. You know what I'm saying? And your manager, like let's let's be for real. Your manager is supposed to direct you and take what you have and multiply that. You know what I'm saying? Your manager is not necessarily supposed to be looking over your paperwork. You should have an attorney. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, your manager should not be writing your bios for you. So if you have a manager that does that, that's amazing. You know what I'm saying? But you should definitely know the business and know uh what you need in order to move forward. And one more thing, I've met people that say, well, if I know these things, why do I need you?

Well, if I know these things, why do I need you? You know what I'm saying? So, you know, if I'm an indie artist, right? And I don't have a team, who are the first like three team members that you'd recommend that I I look for or that I bring on? Hmm, that's a great question. You definitely need an attorney. Definitely. And a lot of people think that, well, I don't have money, I can't afford an attorney. Well, most attorneys work on percentage. Right? So when you have something, that's when you go and get your attorney. You know what I'm saying? That's that's easy, right? Yeah. Um, I would say an attorney. I would say not necessarily a manager, because one thing that I've always been able to do is manage myself. Yeah. You know, not saying that I don't need a team, because I do have a team, obviously, you know. Yeah. You got a solid team. Like he's not, he's he's drinking from his own Kool-Aid. When he says you need a good team around you, he's not just that's just that's not just fucking talk, y'all.

Like this guy Has a squad in here, and they're all amazing at what they do. So shout out to you and your and your and your team here for sure. Thank you. Um, so I would say someone that understands the business, someone that you can, you know, ping ideas off of. Um, if you're a producer, I would say you need that friend who we called it the shark tank. You need that friend that's gonna put your ideas in a shark tank and say, okay, that sounds good, right? But does it really make sense? Right? If we're taking this to somebody, is this gonna yield them money? Because if not, we don't need to take this to them. Um, so I would say an attorney, uh, someone that knows the business. Yeah. Uh and then Mark Cuban. Of course. a Mark Cuban equivalent, a Mark Cuban equivalent. Yeah, if you got that, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Um, and then I would be the third.

Hmm. Who would be the third? Yeah. You need Ha ha ha. you need a club hopping friend. Okay, you do. Ooh, Man on the street. You do, bro. Both of us are too not at home, bro. Not out. We're both homebodies, bro. We need the guy or gal who is out in the fucking mix, bro. Oh, you know what? Yeah. Honorable mention. Honorable mention fourth. You need someone who understands visual quality. Yes. Mm. You need that. Yep. Because everything is, especially now, everything is so visually focused. Right. You have to know how to um like Virgil, he said one time, it's like, and I love this. You take, let's take this ashtray, right? Mm-hmm. Right now, it's just an ashtray. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? It's kind of plain. It's Sorry, bro. It's nice. Yeah. But guess what? You build the world around that ashtray. You put that ashtray in a, let's say a gold box with lights around it. You know what I'm saying? And then you take that case and then you put it in the middle of a showroom and then you put spotlights on it. Now it's different. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Now you got people walking around like, yo, what is that? What is that? That's strange. Right. Is that made out of diamond? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So definitely get somebody that understands visual quality. Yeah. That can create the world around you. You know what I'm saying? Because yeah, everybody doesn't necessarily know how to look like an artist. You know what I'm saying? So if you have someone around you that says, yo, you don't look like an artist, but let's take your music and and uh what you're who your music is geared towards, let's create a world around that to attract them. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? It's crazy how much that look like an artist matters, bro. I mean, I just go to the Ray Daniels thing, right? So we went to this like live event called Game from the Gods. It was Ray and Dame from uh two lost, and they did this exercise with everyone in the crowd. And they like had people come up and they basically just like they were pretty critical of people. You don't look like an artist. Yeah. They they just did kind of the visual test. And it was like, do you look like an artist? Do you look like a manager? What do you look like, right? And so it is it is important, man. I mean, like you said, in this day and age, and really since the you know beginning of time when it comes to artists, like there is a thing about looking like an artist. And that doesn't mean that you need to have the chains and this, that, and the third. Like, look like an artist can come in a lot of different forms. Yeah, but it it is a thing, you know, that people need to be mindful of for sure. Yeah, um, but so you posture posture. Whatever you do, you have to have the right posture for it. Yeah, and that's something I learned from uh a very good friend of mine, um, Cloth. He's always big on like posture, how your posture right.

You know what I'm saying? So you can be an artist that doesn't dress like an artist, right? But guess what? When you walk in the room, maybe you are, uh the weekend type of artist, but you gotta have the right posture that has a certain level of mystique to you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, if you're a Billy Eilish, you gotta have that certain level of uh mystique, uh uh your posture has to be right. It just kind of in my mind goes back to that like believability factor. And I think I was even talking with with Henry, you know, before y'all got here about like us even being more like startup founders and like company and business owners, right? And we gotta kind of have that posture about us of like, hey, these guys, they really do this shit, you know what I mean? Yeah, we get caught up just kind of posting clips of our guests, which is great, and they typically bring a lot of value. But we are the company at the end of the day, and I think there's we have a storyline as well to share with the world. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like so important, no matter what your role is, to kind of have that like unique posture to you. Yeah, for sure So, so you're someone who, I mean, multi-platinum, Grammy nominated.

Have you have you won a Grammy yet? Not yet. Okay, okay, sure, sure. Come soon. It's coming, it's coming. We're manifesting it. But yeah, as you know, as a creative, multi-platinum, Grammy nominated, et cetera. But you're also this like unique character that I feel like there's not too many of your kind that exists out there. That's why I was really excited to have you on. Where you also had this like insane business acumen. I mean, shit, you and I talked for the first time, literally, we hadn't ever met. We got connected through our mutual friend verse, that I was talking about. We talked on the phone for like, I want to say like three hours, and it was just like this super engaging business conversation where like I was bouncing ideas back and forth with you. You were giving me some insights and like you know, your perspectives. When when did you decide that like you did want to pursue being an executive too? Because, bro, I mean, you're an incredible creative. You could have just really locked in as that, yeah, you know, continue to work with artists, produce for artists, executive produce, etc. And that could have been that, right?

And a lot of people choose that path, and they don't necessarily need to walk down the you know, executive pursuing like mogul status type shit, right? So, like, when did that kind of come about for you? I know exactly when that happened. Okay, exactly when it happened. So, shout out to my boy Dame. So, Dame is somebody from my city, like a really, really great friend of mine, is like a brother to me. He actually was the first person that was like producing for me. And um For you. So you were an artist. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I started out as an artist. We won't Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you even want to. Well, what was your rap name? Ha ha. Ha ha. Was it Rusty? Nah, it wasn't. But you know what? I didn't nardwire you. I don't know what it was. Was that a little or a young? Nah, nah. Okay. Definitely not. You know what? Let's get them some homework. Okay. Let's get a viewer some homework. Okay. Hey, but I'm not I'm not I'm not ashamed of my music because I actually can rap. Okay.

Fair enough. I'm actually a great writer, too. So I'm not ashamed. Someone drop Rush D's original rap name in the fucking comments. In the comments. We need that. We'll send you a piece of merch, whoever gets it right. Seriously. And if you're an artist, I will produce a single for you. Oh shit. This is huge. Bro, fuck this. we're making this a social media clip. Post it in the comments. Rush D is gonna fucking produce your next single. If you can find his first artist name. Our little one more time merch shit doesn't look like anything anymore. He just completely sunned me, bro. Oh man. He little and boyed me. Yeah, just the first one though. And we'll check timestamps. Right. Only the first one. Yeah, exactly. We have Rush working for years. on these projects. Right. Oh, man. The other person found me. Literally, like A-list artist called. Yo, I'm busy with these one more time artists. Like they've been, it's been non-stop. People in the comments. Sorry, Dochi. I can't do it right now. Anyway, all right, all right. So, so, Dane was producing for you.

So Dane was producing for me. Yeah, yeah. Very funny story, man. Dame is like still to this day, I was like, that's my brother for real. Yeah. Um. So Dame would produce for me, right? Yeah. And I would go to his house, and at the time, I think I'm like 16. Okay. And I'm just buying beats from him beat after beat after beat. And one day, Dame was like, he he he stopped picking up his phone for like a week. Oh. And I was like, oh man, what am I gonna do? So I remember going to his house. I knocked at his door, his mom. Oh shit, mouse call. Yeah, she's like, oh Dame, he's back there asleep. So I go back there in his room and I wake him up. And he was just, he was frustrated. He was mad. He was like, yo, he's like, man, you just popping up here. Again, I'm like 16. So I think Dame is probably like, he's probably like 18, 19, or something like that. We young. Yeah. So I sit down and I'm just, you know, I'm talking stuff. I'm just cracking jokes with him and stuff.

And Dame, he's like, man, what you even doing with the music? Oh shit. And I'm like, what you mean? Like, you ain't even putting it out. I'm like, I'm working on it. Like, man, you just wasting my time. I'm like, I'm paying you. You know what I'm saying? He like, man, we in Saginaw, you don't even know nobody. So I'm like, oh man, I don't know anybody. So I kid you not. I literally took a year off recording any music. No more, no more music. I stopped. Yeah. And I just started networking. And in that time, I can remember some of the people that I met all the way from Saginaw, Michigan. I met Kevin Lyles. Wow. Yeah. I met, I remember meeting Mona Scott. Okay. She was over at Violator. Uh-huh. Uh um Jimmy Henchman or James Roseman. I don't know which name is.

Yeah. We'll we'll edit it and make you sound smart. All right, all right. Because he has two names. Oh, wow, right? Wait, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah. Well, he doesn't have two names, but I'm saying he has his real name, and then he has his stage name? Alias. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Sure. So um they're kind of eerily close, but go ahead. Yeah. So I met, right? So I met them. Who else that I meet? I met Just Blaze. Wow. Okay. Yeah, who later ended up being a friend of mine. You know what I'm saying? So I just met all of these different people. Um, and and I that's when I realized how important it is to actually network. And once I found that out, then I found out the value of providing value in the rooms that you want to be in, right? So then I pivoted from not only just being an artist, but yo, I'm an artist. I want to get in this room.

I want to get in that room. How can I get in these different rooms? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, and um, who was it? Uh I can't remember who said it. Somebody. I almost want to say it was Troy Taylor. But he said that you'll get in room as an artist, you'll get in a room easier, right? By saying that you're a songwriter. You know what I'm saying? Because if I'm an artist, like let's just say I'm Beyonce, I don't need another artist in a room. Now, if you make dope records, I need you in a room. So I just started understanding the value of that. You know what I'm saying? Providing value in, you know. Yeah. So did Troy say that on our podcast? He might have said something like that. I'm like, I'm pretty sure Troy said that on that couch. Yeah, he's right. No, it's it's 100% true. I mean, shit, insert any role. I mean, I'm a videographer, I'm an engineer, I'm uh to your point, songwriter, I'm a vocal producer, whatever, right? Like anything that you can, I'm a chef, right?

Like what if you cut hair? Yeah, I cut hair, exactly. Slide him your mixtape, you know what I mean? Um maybe not. Yeah, yeah. Maybe not. Let me take a moment to interrupt this episode and tell you about our friends over at DistroKid. DistroKid is easily the best DIY distributor on the marketplace. Let me tell you why. It's only $23 a year. That's less than two bucks a month for you to upload unlimited music to all of your favorite streaming platforms on the planet. It's so easy that it takes me like five minutes per upload, and that's when I'm multitasking, dealing with my two year old son. Hands down, my favorite part about DistroKid is how easy it is to add credits to an upload. I don't know what distributor you're using, but with DistroKid, it's super easy. You can put the artist, the producer, the songwriter. I'm pretty sure you could put like the junior associate engineer of a song. And me, I I want to know who's on the record. And if you sign up using this link, you're gonna get 30% off an already insanely low price. And you can finally start adding your collaborators because they are checking.

They will notice when their name's there and they will thank you for doing it. Let's get back to the episode. What do you think? Okay. All right, so Be Genius is the brand, bro. It's it's the agenda that we're pushing, right? What is it? Just so everyone kind of understands what you're building. So be genius, right? It's a full service um company. Okay, right? So I have artists that I've assigned on the entertainment side. Yep. Um, I have publishing, right? So I have, I just did something um just recently that exclusive? Is this have you done any interviews, by the way? Uh is this like an exclusive? Nah, you know what? We're gonna give it to y'all. And this is like the first- Let's go. All right, cool. This is yeah, we got to the light, y'all. Yeah, this is this is me stepping more in front of the camera. Yeah, we needed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so excited that it's us, bro. Yeah, man. Shout out to us. Shout out to y'all. yeah, for sure. Facts. See? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Okay, so yeah, so we got we got um big news on the publishing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the news? Um out of respect for the other parties. Yep, I'm gonna wait until everyone- we'll bleep it. Just say who you signed the deal with. We'll bleep it. It'll be great. We just did this. We want to do that. Is that a trick question? I swear to God, we'll bleep it. We'll censor it. We're not DJ Vlad, bro. Is that a trick question? We're not DJ Vlad. bro. Hold on, let me look at my team. Team. Is that a trick question? Thumbs up from the team. It's cool. All right. Well, I just did something, and I'm very proud of it because of this person. Yeah. There's a really great person, a really good friend of mine. Um, amazingly talented individual. That goes by the name of this. So again, I'm hoping that y'all are gonna trust me. My friend too. Okay. Okay, shit. They're my friend too. We'll believe the and also me saying it's all getting bleeped. There's So many bleeps now. Bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. Yeah. Bleep, bleep, bleep.

Sounds like an explicit rap song at this point. Anyway, but now you know the reason why I'm so proud of that is because this is just an amazingly talented person. Yes, you know what I'm saying? And you got 100%. You got certain deals that you do, and they're amazing deals, and then you have deals that you do that are like close to your heart. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's one of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazingly talented person, and just really deserves it. Oh you know what I'm saying? So deserves it all for sure as you know, yep, 100%. Yep. So we got the label, publishing, and that that those are the two main focuses. Right now, okay. Um, I will say that at a point in my career, I pivoted into managing, right? Yeah, and me pivoting into management was because other people seen how I manage myself, you know what I'm saying? And they wanted to give you 20% to do the same for them. Exactly. Yeah. We need some of that in our lives, yeah. You know, in a in the in the uh in the words of the the great Jay-Z, right?

They seen how I moved in a room full of vultures. You know what I'm saying? So they said, I want to move in a room full of vultures too. So you know what I'm saying? Um, so I did that. Um, and and I'm also proud to say, um, and I really wear this proudly. A lot of people that I've managed and work with, they we have all graduated to being partners on a lot of different things. You know what I'm saying? Because for me, I see like the the the Rockefeller family tree, right? You seen that online? No, but I know let's pop it up, pop it up, editor. Yeah, yeah. So like the Rockefeller family tree. It's like you got like Rockefeller, then you got Kanye, and then Rihanna, and then you got, you know what I'm saying? She signed, you know, Rick Ross and and Neo and Dream. And I want my family tree to look like that. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want anybody that's gonna just stay an artist or stay a producer or stay a songwriter. I want to be able to pick up my phone one day and say, yo, you're now the the CEO of whatever. Of whatever of whatever, something incredible.

I ain't giving nobody no free promo. Exactly. The the the CEO of whatever, right? And I want to be able to say, yo, I need you, and I can't do that. You know what I'm saying? If I'm pigeonholing anybody to a certain position, so I'm very proud to say, like a lot of people that I work with and manage or um we've all graduated past that to you know partner status yeah so that's something that I wear proudly but yeah so we got um entertainment we have publishing yeah and hmm do I want to say we have management still I mean I I I do have some people that I still you know what I'm saying partners yeah that I still you know manage yeah right but yeah I mean if you're going if you're going the partnership route now like management has such a weird like stigma I feel like it does it does we're seeing the partnership thing a lot too I think it's gonna become even more common and I think it is a good exactly it's just a better setup in general you know I think because this is a business and you are kind of sharing responsibilities and you should have this common yeah equity ownership so yeah so I feel like there's been you know the major labels have always been kind of the you know 800 pound gorilla in the room in the industry for the last you know centuries right um but I feel like there's a shift happening man I feel like absolutely at the Grammys even I I don't want to quote it but like 50% or something of like I don't know some some crazy amount of Grammy winners were like independent um the the the revenue share within the music industry is crazy skewed like moving more towards independent artists are making a lot more money in in the business how can you describe that like paradigm shift, and I guess like why is that happening? Hmm.

What answer do you want? I mean, because I can go the What are the options here? Okay. I can go the optimistic, you know. Oh, I can go that route. That sounds lame. The other one. How about the other one. Or I can go with uh the nitty grit of it. Mm-hmm. However, I don't want to discourage anybody from their journey. Yeah. Okay. We don't want to do that either. All right, let's give it disclaimer. But like, don't let this discourage you. Don't let don't let this discourage you. But however, however... Mm-hmm. even within the independent sector, you have a lot of major companies that are still heavily involved. Yeah. Right? Yes. So always play the game to win. You know what I'm saying? Always play the game to win. Don't ruffle any feathers. You know what I'm saying?

Some people play the game to change it. Some people play the game to win. And I won't say anybody's names, right? But I think the viewer, especially if you're in the music business, you can look at a lot of different examples of people that played the game to try to change it. And some people who played the game to try to win it. You know what I'm saying? And even the people that play to change it, you know, even they had to come back and play it to win in order to change things. You know what I'm saying? So which person are you? Ha ha. A good magician never gives away his truth. Ha-ha. Ha-ha. Ha-ha. If I tell you, you'd have to kill me. I'd have to silence you. I think he basically he kind of said without saying he has to play the game a little bit, you know. Yeah. Certain moves are fit into certain molds. So yeah, and I feel like that, you know, this is a perfect segue. This is a huge debate online and just in conversations that I have with people in the business, right?

Like, what does being independent really mean now? Like let's level set this. You're not with Universal Columbia or Sony or Warner. I mean, but can you really Yeah, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Can you really be that? That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean. Like, so how would you define independence? Oh man. I mean, because it was a point of time when everyone was um rooting on Chance the Rapper, right? Amazingly talented guy person, right? However, when you get in X amount of million from, you know what I'm saying, uh this streaming platform or that streaming platform to, you know, like can you really still call that independent? Or when you're distributing, even distributing through a partner of a major label, is that really independent? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Because if you do good enough, oh, they're gonna put them label services on you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I I just listened to a podcast, uh, it was Trapital Podcast, right? And it was, yeah, it was with uh it was a Brian Zisuk, who we've had on the podcast as well. Z, a brilliant mind, yeah, brilliant mind. Such just like an artist advocate, really understands the business better than anyone I've ever uh talked to, honestly. And um the episode was called Why Top Artists Stay With Major Labels. And it was talking about some of these things, right? Where even if someone like a Drake is like, you know, signs, you know, he basically re-ups a licensing deal, and even if they end up just doing a distribution deal, it's like you're distributing through the majors. So even if you like own your masters and you're licensing them to a major, is that independent? So it was like this whole thing. That's why I was interested to get like your take. So, like, how how do you like to define it? Because a lot of people like to wear that independence thing on their, you know, like on their sleeve, and like they're so proud of it.

But then when you like pull you know, pull back the curtain, it's like I think owning your masters is a decent like is that it step? You know what? It is that, but I'll also say this, right? Owning your process, creative control. Yeah, owning your process, owning your creative control. I feel like that's true independence. Release when I want to release. Yeah. I think that's a big part of it. And that's something that you know, they were talking about on the Trapital podcast, is like, you know, if if uh, you know, whoever wants to drop tomorrow and you're technically independent, like you should be able to do that. Versus if you are caught up in the major label system, like there are approval processes, and I'm like unless you're Drake and you have that leverage to be able to say on Thursday night, I want to drop at midnight, Friday, no one else is getting that type of treatment. Like so, you do have to run everything, the artwork through you know, the artwork team and the fucking radio promo team needs to be involved and the legal needs to be involved. Yeah, I guess you gotta have producer agreements and you got any other writers, because if we put this out and now we are owners of the master, yeah, we can be sued for this.

Yeah, right. Exactly if we didn't clear it. Yeah. So I mean, for me, it I think it's kind of twofold in my mind. It is about the master ownership, but then even that, if it's a licensing deal and the advance was crazy, are you ever gonna recoup it? So if not, do you really own your own masters? That's like a whole side conversation that we don't have time for. Well, well, that's why I say it just comes back to owning your process, yeah. Whoever you with. You can be with a major, you can be with whoever. As long as you own the process. You know what I'm saying? What is the process in your mind? The process is is, you know, uh got you got skin in the game as far as like doing your digital marketing. Okay, right? You building a team and an ecosystem around yourself. You know what I'm saying? You still going to the studio every night because they can put up the money, but are you going? You know what I'm saying? Having a team that can go in there and vouch for you and say, yo, listen, this is what we want to do. You know what I'm saying?

You can be with uh a major label, you can be with a distributor, right? But own your process. And I think that uh it's so subjective because you got some people that's like, yo, stay independent. And it's like, but some people they don't even know what to do being independent. You know what I'm saying? You got some people that's like, uh, you know, go to a major. Some people got so much going on that they don't have to go to a major. You know what I'm saying? They may just want to look at Tech N9ne, for example. Somebody like Tech N9ne. Man, this guy has warehouses. This is a fact. You know what I'm saying? He owns his process. He owns his process. Yeah. Regardless of who he's partnered with, who regardless of who he's currently partnering with, he owns his process. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I just tell everybody to own your process, do what works for you. I've even seen people, uh, I think it was Pitbull. He was like, don't ever sign to an artist if you're an artist.

And I'm like, man, shout out to Pitbull, but like, man, do what works for you. You know what I'm saying? Because who is Glorilla signed to? She's uh Gotti, right? Yo Gotti. Okay. Who is Drake signed to? Who was who is Drake signed to? You know what I'm saying? Wayne. He was cash money. Right. Okay. Nicki Minaj. Cash money. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Kanye West. It worked out for them. Kanye West. Jay Z. Cole. Rihanna. Cole. Cole. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's so many people that is like, man, come on, just do what works for you. Sign to artists who are entrepreneurs. Guess what? Ooh, that's kind of a good one. Because they're those are all crazy entrepreneurs, bro. Justin Bieber was signed to who? Usher, right? Okay. Yeah. I mean, like the list, you know what I'm saying? Like, we can keep money bag, yo. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, we can keep going. Dude, you just actually schooled the fuck out. I've never thought about this. Because we've had someone on the show that actually brought up that same exact thing. They said don't do it. we might have even brought that up at one point.

And I was like, I was pretty team, like, don't sign to an artist. They're not gonna give a fuck about you. And then it's like, wait. Some of the big no, some of the biggest artists in the world, bro. Yeah. Are signed to artists. Yeah. Like you said, though, as long as they have an entrepreneurial spirit. Yes, right. You know what I'm saying? And they know business. Because we all know artists that have signed other artists. Yeah. And that was a terrible decision from those artists that got signed by them. Like, yeah. No shade to. I'm not gonna throw names out there, but like, why not? just because I mean, you know, I'm you know messing with you. Um, but yeah, so you know, you've been involved What works for you. You've been involved in like several types of deals, right? Um, from publishing to label types of deals, et cetera. What's like the smartest deal you've ever done, do you think? Um, I'll tell you the smartest kind of deal you can do. Okay.

The smartest kind of deal that you can do is, and a lot of people don't do this. I'm giving y'all some game right now. That's what we got you here for, man. Yes. Let's go. Um okay. You have it's so simple, but I don't see artists these days that are actually signing themselves to their company. You know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. Like, I don't see that often. So sometimes they go and do publishing deals. Let's say a producer, they go and do publishing deals, right? But now your publisher is getting all of this percentage when you could have signed yourself to your company. And you retain some. And you retain some that goes to your company. Mm. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's like a safety net almost. Exactly.

Guarantees you X portion of everything that's made. Exactly. Yeah. Because if I do a publishing deal, and if it's 50-50, right, let's say me, um, I have 50%, they have 50%, right? However, if I'm signed to, if I'm a producer and I'm signed to um one more time publishing, right? Now they have to bust that down with one more time publishing. Yeah. So now they're 50% dilutes because now they may do a 75-25. They may be doing a 50-50, right? But guess who's getting that other piece? You are. You are. Bro, this is this is huge. Fucking gem, bro. Yeah, it's just so just to summarize, if I'm an artist, I should probably start my own label LLC as well as my own publishing LLC. Or have some sort of business structure around those two elements, whether it's combined under one roof or whatever. Absolutely. And that way, if I do get signed, it's my company is doing the deal.

Absolutely. Or at least they have to be involved. Absolutely. Wow. And it's so simple. It is. It does sound so simple. It sounds like why do I have to do that? Like, I don't know. I'm not signing anyone else. You know what I mean? So why do I have to do that? That part. Yeah. Why do I have to do that? I'm not signing anybody else. Mm-hmm. It doesn't matter because whose career do you care about the most? Yours. It should be yours. It should be. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, it's a safety net. Um, I'll say that that's something like that's one of the most uh fruitful deals that you can do. It's just signed, it's just which is which it can we cuss on here? Yeah. Damn. And it costs like what, 50 bucks a year to like make a company. It's like nothing. I don't know. Yeah. What's like what's like one mistake that you just constantly kind of I'm not saying you live in in in the world of regrets, but like when it comes to deals or whatever, like what's maybe one mistake that you think you've made that that people could learn from? Um one mistake I've made. And I'm sure you've made a lot because all successful people have.

A whole lot. Yeah, exactly. So I want to caveat this one that he's gonna give is not his only one, probably, but yeah, it's not no. Um I will say, always do paperwork. Yeah. Because if you're doing a deal with someone, and if you if you both are as transparent as you say you are, then there's nothing wrong with having it on paper. So I would say always do paperwork. Um even if it's your best friend. You could be signing your grandmother. You know what I'm saying? Grandma, I'm gonna need to get this drafted. I'm gonna need to get this contract signed. You know what I'm saying? My lawyer will be in touch with yours. Yeah. Grandma, can you sign my homework? However, you gotta get that paperwork signed. Don't trick nobody though. Yeah. But yeah, always sign paperwork. Just be transparent. Always. Um and do I mean, yeah, we even signed paperwork. Because like it was one of those things that gave me.

Neither one of us read it, but we signed it. Yeah, literally. It was the most boilerplate, I think. Yeah. Once again, didn't read it. It was actually Henry that gave it to me, so he might have fucked me for all I know. I have no idea if I did. I saw 50 somewhere and I was like, that sounds right. Well, we'll read it one day. I don't know Yeah. Will we? Y'all doing pretty good though. We are, we are, we are. But it just goes to show of like, I had no, you know, doubts that he was gonna, you know, that it wasn't anything safe, and I didn't think that we were gonna be out to get each other or anything legally, right? But I mean, to your point, it's just like you gotta have transparent, yeah. You gotta have it. Yeah. Why leave the question mark out there? It's just because guess what? When you do have a team, right? That team comes along, and their job is to make sure that everything is in its proper order, right? So the first thing that they may ask you, they may say, yo, um, how many artists do you have signed to you? How many producers do you have assigned to you?

And if you say that you don't have any paperwork, they're gonna say, no, they're not signed to you. Yeah, zero. You know what I'm saying? Well, no, no, no, that's my homeboy. They're not, he's not signed to you. You know what I'm saying? I've seen situations where people turn around and they'll let you lead them to the promised land. And it's like, it's like walking a kid, a child into the candy store. You holding their hand, and as soon as y'all get to the to the to the candy store, they snatch it away and they want to run around. They don't need you no more. You know what I'm saying? So just do paperwork. Granted that you're doing good paperwork. Yeah, yeah. Which comes back to your one of your earlier points about having an attorney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have an attorney. Yeah. Yeah, For sure. You know, if I'm an indie artist and I do, you know, have the opportunity to get presented with deals, right? Whether it's a you know, label deal, publishing deal, whatever, right? Distribution deal. Um, what are what is like a big red flag that I should be looking out for with any contract? Is there kind of like one just thing that maybe like blanket applies to any deal, like, yo, make sure you ask about this, or if they if they present something like this, run away as fast as you can.

Hmm. Hmm. That's a good question. See, because me, I'm pro-creative and I'm also pro-business. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yep. So sometimes that's kind of hard for me to answer because you see it from both sides, though. I see it from both sides. Is that a blessing or a curse? It's both. Yeah, dude. Because sometimes if you're wearing your business hat and you got this, like, I don't want to be out here like taking advantage of people, but it's a business, right? You do want to get the best deal for you. Let's just be clear. Like everyone in business, you're not out here to give the other person the best deal, right? It's just not how this works. So, yeah, I can see how that would like maybe be a bad thing in some ways, right? If you let it get to your head of like, fuck, if I was on the other side of this, like I wouldn't, you know what I mean? Like that's why I relate to you a lot, I feel like, because I've always felt very evenly split. Like I had my mom and my dad, my mom was the creative.

I have this artistic side, but I have this business side also. And I also like stopped. I took like I'm a music producer, but it's taken a huge backseat to like now running a company. So similar kind of even the name of my company is split brain. Like I am right in the it's it's hard to like I see both sides. Thank you. I see both sides. So making decisions is tough because I like this and I this. I get it on both sides, but yeah, where do you draw the line? Now that's a good question. You had a great question too. Mine was a little better. It was. I actually I actually want to move, I actually want to move into this. I want to move into this topic because I think this whole this whole business complimenting question. Complimentary shit. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I do think this whole business and and like creativity thing is an interesting topic. So yeah, I mean, where do you where do you draw the line when it comes to like deals? So I like to do deals um based on the individual. You know what I'm saying?

A lot of people have like templates of how they just this is how we do deals, this is how we do business. Me, I like to tailor it every time. Okay, right, because I've met artists that I've done deals with, and I'm like, yo, we're gonna do a partnership, you know what I'm saying? This is 50 50, and then we get into uh we get in the business together, and I realized that they don't know shit. Mm-hmm. So why are we 50 50 partners? Why are we 50 50 partners? Yeah, if I'm carrying the load. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yep. Um it's gotta be tailored. It's gotta be tailored. Yeah. Everything is unique. It it has to be. Yeah, it has to be. Unless you're somebody like a major and you just know, like, hey, listen, my resources are unmatched. This is what I need for you to get in bed with me, period. You know what I'm saying? That's just when you have the leverage, though, too, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, assuming that if you're the business or you're the company, assuming, assumingly, you always have the leverage. Yeah.

Right? However, you have to look at the individual and you have to really understand, you know, where they are in their career. Me, I'm at a place where I'm not doing business with people that don't understand the business. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't have time to argue with you. Um, I remember I had a producer that argued with me He's like, yo, I haven't got it's been six months and I haven't got any placements. Your shit ain't fire. I mean, nah, you know what? That sounded messed up. No, that was great. But that sounded messed up, right? No, it sounded perfect. You didn't have anything that these particular artists wanted. That's a better way of saying it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I like the other way better. No, I like it. Your shit ass, bruh. See, that's that's my inner Leo talking. Yeah, sure. Let me dial back, but that's my inner Leo, but I mean, you know, so it's like No, but that's a fair point, bro. I mean, there's so many people who have uh someone talked about like I've been signed up for Sound Exchange for three years and I haven't seen a penny.

It's like your shit's not on satellite radio, fam. Your shit's not on satellite radio. You're not popping. I can't, I can't fix that problem. So now they mad at you. Yeah. Yeah, why haven't I got anything? They not picking up your music. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sending it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. So that was something I'm like, man. I remember I went on a whole rant about it. And by the way, a lot of people who say like my Instagram stories, that's where like the true gems are. Because I'm like, I'm talking all type of. I'm talking cash money in my stories. I'm like, hey, don't do this. Stop sending me this. Don't. If I give you my email, don't put me in a mailing list. And I'm talking, I'm just letting it all fly. Yeah. Damn. So just to kind of continue on the business and creative side, right? Because I think we actually had this debate last night, he and I. So I do want to get Rush's take on this, right? Let's go. So how does the business and creative kind of like, you know, dichotomy uh play itself out when it comes to making music, right?

Because like I said, you're a Grammy nominated multi-platinum creative, right? And also executive, right? So are you making music with business in mind? And with the and the ultimate example that we always bring up, just the simplest. Let's do it, bro. The simplest example that we always refer to is like, you should have a short intro on your song. It should get right to it. You know, that's like the example of like, do I modify my art for the business to maybe more be more successful? So when you say the business, what do you mean? Are you talking about it? Just the commercials, just just are you taking in in into effect the commercial success, the potential commercial success of a record when you go in to make something? Hmm. Well, you know what? I just had this conversation with DJ Kass, and I said to him, I'm like, yo, a lot of projects that we're working on, we're we're tailoring everything that we do to those projects until the projects are done, right? But then you have these situations where I don't know where something happens, right?

For example, Lil Wayne was just in town, right? He came to the studio for the whole weekend. And that very well could have been a situation where we had nothing for him. You know what I'm saying? If we didn't say to ourselves, like, yo, listen, we're gonna take time to just create shit. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So I I want to say um, you should always just be open minded. You know what I'm saying? Just be creative, be open minded, and I'm gonna settle, I'm gonna settle this debate, right? The difference between a beat maker and a producer. You know what, you know what it is? Their ability to AR. That's the difference. A producer can AR. A producer can AR. You know what I'm saying? Um, so yeah, you just I would say What does that mean though? A and R?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like just so we've had lots of people on the show, ARs and even non-ARs, and we've debated this topic about like what is AR. So, right, A and R, so if we say a producer is someone who can AR, what do you mean by that? A and R and it ARs wear many different hats. So it depends on how many hats you're comfortable wearing, and it depends on what hat you currently wear. Um you have ARs that want to be in the studio creating music. You have ARs that want to go out and find talent, right? Um, but in context of like a producer in an AR. Yeah, exactly. So beat maker versus producer, if a producer can AR, what does it mean? I'm gonna give you something else so simple that I do. Let's go. My whole team, we all do this. We change the names of beats based on who we're sending it to. Oh. Oh shit.

This might be the biggest gem of the episode. Why do you do that? Why? Because as an AR, you want these artists to pick your record. Yeah. Right. And the first line of uh, you know, the viability of that is them having a spark of creativity. Yes. You know what I'm saying? So if I just let's say I send Rick Ross uh a beat. I'm not naming it water bottle in the sun. You know what I'm saying? What are you naming it? Lemon Pepper Steppers. Shit, that was called. You know what? The wing. Um that's a great question. Because I'm trying not to give some names that I've actually. I was gonna say, can you give us a real example of a beat that you sent to multiple people and what you named it for each of these people? That would be so fire if you actually had this off top or like in your phone.

I don't know. I want to give you a good one. Yeah. Or even just maybe to simplify it same beat, give me two artists and what you named it for each, if you can remember. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Let's say Meek Mill and Rick Ross. Okay. Right. Similar, but a little different. Sure. So I might name the record for Meek Mill uh Foreign Dreams. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Got the dreams in there, dreaming. Yeah. I might name, I might, for Rick Ross, I might name it Maybach Dreams. You know what I'm saying? Just that little customization. Because that's the first thing they see. When they open the beat pack, and it's the first thing that it's their first chance to think about what they're going to say on that beat. Exactly. It's Huge, actually. Yeah. So the whole song ends up revolving. It could revolve around that.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So Wow. that was a gem. Never heard that one. It's so small. It's so simple. It requires that an extra little bit of care. That and also knowing what their sound is. And knowing how to complement their sound and also knowing how to be different yet familiar enough for them to feel comfortable getting on it. Oh. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Because you're not always in the studio with the artist. There are a lot of cases where you could be, depending on, you know, your level of uh posture. You know what I'm saying? Or stature. Yeah. In the music business, you could be. But if you aren't, then you have to make sure that you're sparking that creativity in them. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, what are some other ways to increase your chances of getting your uh beat selected? Huh. Right? Something else that people do. Yeah. Um.

If I tell you that I'm in a studio with Alicia Keys and I need a full record, right? What are you sending me? A full record? Yeah, like the beat. Oh. You know what I'm saying? A reference. Yeah, probably a reference, at least a hook, maybe a verse, even. Okay. All right. With the beat flushed out. I just failed the test, I think. I don't know. Let's find out. No, why you say that? I don't know. You're I can see you through your sunglasses. No, not really. Look, let me I'm imagining what's in your what's in your eyes, and it's just disgust. Yeah, so I want to get this straight. Okay. So I'm making a Dropbox folder. Okay. I'm giving you the folder. I'm giving you the folder. What are you putting in it? Stems. You're putting stems. Uh I think that's gotta be included at least. Okay, now what is your definition of stems? Every element tracked out. So I mean every drum, every melody, every the vocals, even the reference, reference vocals, everything tracked out individually. And then also a bounce of the beat, a bounce of the beat with reference.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Maybe I'm going with more like fully naked, beat only, one with just hook, one with hook and verse. I don't know. That's where my mind's going. Okay. Are we totally overthinking this? Yeah, what's going on? Um, you you're totally nailing it. Oh, let's go. Bro, we doubted ourselves, bro. That was tricky because yeah, he didn't kind of look like him. the way he was acting, yeah. I was like, he doesn't He's like God, these guys that I thought they had learned something in 230 episodes. Hold on, What is it? Look, Kanye Kanye smile. Yeah, yeah. You're a tough guy to read sometimes, man. Yeah, so um it's that business, it's a you know strong negotiator. I would definitely say that, right? Something else that's so simple. So many times I get producers, I'm like, yo, I need a full record. But let's just think about this. If I'm in a studio with Alicia Keys, you send me a record, and like, yo, I think she would love this. So you send me five records.

Let's say it's two o'clock in the morning and she's like, I love this. Let's do this right now. I gotta call you for the beat. Mm. Mm-mm. And now you gotta call the engineer. That's not happening. So every time I send out full records, I always give them the beat. And then I give them the full song and I give them the a cappella. Now I will say that I was just, I just learned something, right? Last week, an artist picked up four records that I produced and wrote, and I had it completely broken down. You know what they said? Can you send me the lyric sheet? I'm like, oh we need that's a bonus tip. Word honorable mention the fucking lyrics written out. Yeah. Because then they can go in and edit it and tweak it to customize for themselves. Exactly. Okay, okay. So, but is this applicable to artists of all types? Should you be making full references for even rappers, or is it just maybe applicable to like RB pop?

You know why you should. Yeah. Because Lyor Cohen said, we are in the record business. We need records. Yeah. So even if they don't use it, you should at least have some ideas. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, because especially they might just, I mean, the hooks is is a good chance of being used, even for rap, right? Like if the hook is fire, they might not, they might have some. I mean, we've talked about this ad Nauseum on the Pod about like, you know, do rappers let other people write their, you know, lyrics and verses and shit. And like, you know, everyone has their own opinion there. But like hooks. A lot of rappers seem cool with taking a hook. Hook. I mean, whatever, bro. Guess what? I'm gonna give you something. Yeah. And this is like, this is um, this isn't like a secret anything, but like how I mentioned DJ Kaz in Keys of the City. So obviously we know that that's not Nipsey singing the hook. Yeah. Right. Now, the singer that is on the hook, who do you think wrote the lyrics? Kaz.

Nipsey. You. It wasn't Nipsey. And it wasn't me. DJ Kaz. DJ Kaz. You know what I'm saying? Let's go. Let's go. Shout out to DJ Kaz. You know what I'm saying? He's so locked in on something over there. He's just doing deals, making beats on his phone. He's writing another hit right now. Right. Man, DJ Kaz. man, shout out to DJ Kaz. Cause you know, he's a perfect example, somebody that when I say um I'm partners with people that I've managed and you know, things like that, I'm telling you, DJ Kaz, like, man, he does it all. Like Kaz literally is a team player, and he's a team leader. You know what I'm saying? You know how I told y'all, like, hey, don't get a manager or someone and give them your contracts to read. I actually send DJ Kaz my contracts first before I send them to my attorney. Shout out to my attorney.

I'm sorry. Yeah. You still get paid. You know what I'm saying? You still get the final revisions. Who is your attorney? Ha ha. You allowed to say that? Um is it Bernie? Nah. Okay. So my attorney's in New York. Okay. And the only reason why I'm not saying my attorney is because a lot of times in negotiations, people take that type of information and they tailor their approach. Oh, really? And it's not always a good approach. He's so shrewd, man. Interesting. Interesting. Most people would have been like, yeah, it's fucking blah, blah, blah, Esquire. Yeah. But I'll say this. If we've ever done business, you obviously know who my attorney is. Sure. You know what I'm saying? It's just I hate when I hate when you're when you walk into deals and a person's like, oh, I know, I know his attorney, so I'm gonna say I know what they'll accept or what they like. I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that. It's kind of shady. It's like going into a yeah, football game and you know what type of defense they're gonna run. You can adjust your offense.

Yeah, it's like come fair. And if you're not gonna come fair, I would rather you show your face, you know, in the beginning, because guess what? It saves me time of being friendly. Yeah. That's it. Huge. No punchline behind it. It's just it saves me the time of being friendly. Yeah, for sure. You know, you know, so you mentioned obviously like a lot of your former like management clients you now have like partnerships with. I believe Jacob is kind of one of those types of characters as well. So Jacob. Or like, yeah, like what's your relationship like with ATL Jacob? So Jacob, right. So funny how me and Jacob met. We actually met in Miami first. Okay. Um, Sonny Digital, that's my cousin. Shout out to Sonny, right? Actual cousin? Yes. He's from the I think I asked you this actually on the phone. I think I didn't believe you. Because people like to fuck with me, dude. Like, I know I'm just saying they're like, this white guy's gonna think we're all Yeah, here we go. This white guy's gonna think all us black people are cousins.

Like, I just told him that to be, you know, funny, and he took it seriously. So I thought you were doing one of those. I've gotten played like that, bro. So so we met in Miami, and it was when I first got to Atlanta, and everybody kept telling me, like, yo, you gotta meet ATO Jacob. Oh, wow. A lot of people kept on saying it, right? And we went the whole weekend with people saying it, you know. Um, shout out to Kool and Dre. You know, everybody that that knew that I was in Atlanta were like, yo, you gotta meet ATO Jacob. Like this dude, like he he fire, he the next one, he's up next. Like, you gotta meet Jacob. But why did they think you specifically needed to meet him? Or were they saying that to everyone? That was like, you know, that's a good question. Like, what did they what connection did they draw? So, what I don't know is if they said it to other people. What I do know is they said it to me. I just didn't know if they're like, you gotta meet him because you're into you know this and he's into that, or like y'all have these personality traits or something. Yeah.

So so people kept telling us that we need to meet. Yeah. And then it just became funny because we would meet each other for the first time every time. So somebody else was like, yo, I want to introduce y'all. And we like, oh, what's up? Ha ha ha ha. I'm Rush D, yo, I'm ATO Jacob, right? So that was a funny thing throughout that whole weekend. How many times did you meet for the first time? I think like four times. Ha ha ha. So, so the last time Universal had a private dinner. And um, shout out to my boy Jack Dance. So me and Jack Dance, we went, and I'm talking about it was probably like 15 people in there. It was like really small. Is that Jack Dance? like Ray, Yeah. Daniel's partner? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jack Dance. Yeah. Um, Jack Dance like the liquor. Yeah. That's what he likes to say. Yeah. But um, so we went. And Cool and Dre was in there. Um, and cool, like, yo, Rush, you know, da-da-da-da. He like, yo, you gotta meet Jacob. I was like, no, it's not gonna be this again.

Yeah. I think I want to say Cardiac was in there. Mm-hmm. I think so. It was really small. Um so we in the room. I'm trying to, at the same time, I'm thinking in real time, who else was in the room. Or else somebody's gonna be like, you didn't mention me. Yeah. Yeah, I must not be important. Forget Rush. Um, so we met this last time. I didn't know he was an artist, too. Uh-huh. I had no idea. Uh-huh. So we meet, we laughing, like, yo, I think we even cracked the joke. I'm like, yo, what's up? I'm ATO Jacob. He's like. Yo, what's good? I'm Rush D. Okay. You know what I'm saying? And um, he was like, Yo, I want to play you some of my music. I'm like, play me some of your music. He's like, Yeah, I'm an artist too. I'm like, word. He played me some of his music, and I actually liked his music. You know what I'm saying? And as I'm looking around the room, I'm seeing that he has people around that love and believe in him, right?

So I'm seeing his mom in the room. I'm seeing his sisters in the room, you know what I'm saying? I'm seeing the ARs in the room. I'm watching everybody in real time, like believe in him, and I just seen that he was really, really serious about it. And I like the music. So we was just like, yo, you know, when we get back to Atlanta, let's sit down, let's talk. So I'm like, I bet. And at the time he was starting a company, um, Wicked Money Family, that he's now stepped away, completely stepped away from. Um, I just say that I don't want to, you know, bad mouth nobody, but I'm gonna just be blunt about it. There was some things that was going on that we felt like didn't reflect who we were, you know what I'm saying? As uh as men. I don't mean males, I mean like men as far as like the stature and the posture of a man, right?

So you know, we disconnected from that. But anywho, um I came in um helping with the label. And when I say helping with the label, I mean as far as like president and you know head of AR. You know what I'm saying? So um it was Jacob. So Jacob was one of my artists, and then three other artists, right? So that's that's where it started. That's where our relationship started. We got back, and he's like, yo, I think I hit him one night, and he's like, yo, you gotta pull up to my showcase. I'm like, I bet. I pulled up to his showcase. Um he performed, uh, and the artists had performed. So that's where it started, and then um it went to, you know, Jacob having a management team, right? So one of his partners and like one other person, um we became the management team.

And it's how do I say uh when people aren't when people don't keep up? You know what I'm saying? Or when you have differences of opinions respectfully, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, I I don't think I could ever be a part of a management team. Yeah. Well, no, uh. I don't think I could do it. Well, so that's how it happened. And then uh, and then it was just us. You know what I'm saying? Um, shout out to Cece. You know what I'm saying? We call her boss lady. Cece makes sure a lot of things get done. But it just it just became us. You know what I'm saying? Obviously, uh legal, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it just became us. We just, you know, we've been in the trenches, we've been in the field, you know. Yeah, what do you think's made him so successful? Um I feel like he just was on a tear. And I mean, just he's one of those producers that I mean, obviously, I didn't even did you learn today that he was did you know he was he was an artist? Yeah, no.

Okay, I didn't really know him as an artist, I'm gonna be completely honest. He's actually an artist signed to Republic Records. Wow, okay. As an artist. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And it's like, you know, for me, I looked at him like, you know, a producer that has that, you know, kind of like hit boy, and like, you know, these people that are maybe like, you know, releasing projects as artists, but really they're just still producers or whatever. Nah, Jacob is a full. He's a full artist, and he's written records for people. Yeah. Um, uh singers, you know, some uh rappers, you know what I'm saying? Like Jacob is like a full-fledged artist. Yes. Like he really loves artistry. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, so what do you think's made him so successful, just you know, specifically? Hmm. Pushing the boundary for sure. Like sonically? Yeah. Okay. Um, and and when I what I mean by pushing the boundary is like, you know, recognizing this sound, recognizing the sound and like Southside, like Southside family, you know what I'm saying? Um, so just recognized a sonic and being one of the forerunner, the front runners for that sound.

You know what I'm saying? Um you can go back to this, but even like Nicki Minaj was working on Pink Friday too. Nicki. she said on um, I think Ebro's podcast on Apple. She's like, hey everybody, my album got pushed back. Blame ATL Jacob. You know what I'm saying. Like she didn't like let I don't I don't know if it was other producers that came to her house. I I don't know. But she's like, Jacob, you know, came to my house and he played some records and he completely changed everything. You know what I'm saying? So I think collectively we did like eight records on there. Wow. Yeah, like eight records. Um got J. Cole on it, a record with her and J. Cole. Wow. Um produced by uh that was ATL Jacob and then Hendrix Smoke. Yeah. Um Hendrix going crazy too. Um but uh I think it's that pushing the boundary, you know what I'm saying, and timing. You know, because Jacob is somebody that he doesn't just jump out the window working with everybody.

But whenever he works with an artist, it's always the right time. What do you mean by that specifically? I mean, even like Nikki, for example, I love Nikki. You know what I'm saying? Amazingly talented, right? Um I feel like fuck the club up and everything in that time was needed. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like nothing was forced. Okay, so the records were almost at the right time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so like Yeah. The records were. they were released at the right moment culturally or societally or whatever. Okay. Interesting. And knowing knowing how to push the the sound, because by the time we hear a sound, oftentimes the producer may be on to something different. Uh huh. You know what I'm saying? Like we may work on a record in January and it comes out uh December. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

So just staying ahead of the curve and just knowing, like, yo, man, this is gonna be the next wave right here. Uh huh. You know what I'm saying? So when we in the studio, those are the things that we talk about, like, yo, this is gonna be the new sound right here. You know what I'm saying? Or even like him as an artist. We're talking about, yo, um, because he's working on two projects right now. Um, I'm executive producing those, right? So we talk about like, yo, this is gonna be the sound that you should lean into. You got Cash Cobain who, you know, curated a sound, right? Uh huh. So we talk about those things like yo, let's lean into this for you. You know what I'm saying? This can be your fresh sound. So yeah, just pushing the boundary, knowing um, knowing what's going to be the next sound based on what's the current sound. And uh, man, what else would I say? Yo, is it public knowledge? What artists you're EP? What do you mean?

In general? No, like these two projects you're talking about. Oh no, no, it's Jacobs. I know, yeah. Oh, okay. So yeah, yeah, for Jacob's own artists. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, him as an artist. Okay, cool. I didn't know if you were both executive producing someone else. But I mean, there there are other people Sure. as well. Um but those two were for Jacob. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that was coming real soon. Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think y'all gonna I I'm I'm about to go like Check out for that. Binge ATL Jacob artist projects for sure. But Rush, we've entered a final segment of the podcast, Henry. Oh Take us. I didn't even get to say anything controversial yet. Let's go. What do you got? I'm playing. No, I think you got a question for that, huh? Question number one. What is your most controversial music industry take right now? Oh man. He literally asked this actually often. So he's not. It's not on my list, but it's funny that the timing of that right now. Yeah. So how much can I cuss? A lot. As much as you want. Literally.

Fucking let it rip. All right. listen. Stop listening to failed musicians. Ooh. Right? Because you got people that come to you, right? They do these deals, right? Sorry, mom. I'm finna, I gotta just, I gotta get something off. I gotta talk that talk. Let's go. So they do these deals and they make songs and they say, I got more money than you. I fuck more bitches than you. Mm-hmm. Matter of fact, I'm about to fuck your bitch. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? You poor, you broke. You know what I'm saying? You ain't shit. Everything about my life is so much better than yours. And then a album come and they don't do shit. Mm. Right? And now they telling you, no, fuck the labels. But guess what? Nah. Nah. Nah. I want the house bigger than yours. Nah. I want to fuck all the bitches, including yours. You know what I'm saying?

I want everything better than you. So I say stop listening to failed musicians and and have discernment of like who failed because they shit just won that. and who failed because they didn't, you know, necessarily pick the right team. Mm. You gotta know that. You know what I'm saying? I'm glad we got that in. I love that. That was good. Oh, one more thing. Oh, one more controversial. Let me ask you this, right? If we're going into business, yeah, more trivia. Okay. I know y'all gonna get it right though. Okay. If we're going into business, right? And let's say, let's say you have a restaurant, Mm-hmm. and you say yo, Rush, I got this restaurant. No, fuck that. Let's say it's me. I got a restaurant. Why can't I have the restaurant? And I'm like, because it'll make more sense when I say it. Okay, okay. All right, I'm tracking. So I have a restaurant. And I come to you, I say, yo, listen, I got the menu, I got the building, but I need the money, right? So then I come to you and say, yo, I need a million dollars, I'm gonna give you 50%.

Whoa. Yeah. You think I made a money, bro? But you you are. Okay, All right. I am in this scenario. I am. No, Henry, I am. We're gonna speak it right. You say I am I am. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Nah. so look, so you need a million for 50. For 50%. All right. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, we do it. Yeah. I gave you 50%. Yeah. The first year we make 10 million. Mm-hmm. Right? What's your take? 5 million. 5 million. Uh-huh. The next year we make 20 million. What's your take? 10 million. Okay. The next year we make 100. What's your take? 50 million. Okay. I come to you and I say, yo, listen, that 50% I gave you, I want, I want my 50% back. What are you gonna say to me? Fuck you. Why are you gonna say fuck you? Because I put up the money. Okay. And we had a deal.

Okay, but that's my 50%. This is my restaurant. This is my name of the restaurant. I want my 50% back. What are you gonna say? Call my lawyer? I don't know. At this point, you have acquired a lifestyle, right? Yeah. You're not a chef. So you can't go out and make the same burgers that's at this restaurant. You know what I'm saying? Um, you don't even have a well, you do have a restaurant. Yeah. Right? But I said that to say this. I'm getting tired of artists complaining and crying about their fucking masters. That's not your fucking masters. You know what I'm saying? Once you give somebody a percentage of that, it's not yours anymore. You know what I'm saying? Respectfully, though. I'm not saying that people shouldn't own their masters. What I'm saying is, like, yo, listen, know the business and be fair. If you give somebody 50%, stop crying when they don't want to give it back to you.

Because it's not yours, it's mine. Right? Stop talking about my shit. You know what I'm saying? Stop going on podcasts, stop going on social media talking about my shit. I want my masters back. It's not your fucking masters. You know what I'm saying? You put pen to paper. That is what it is. Damn. Yeah, so I mean, know what you're doing. Like, know what you're going into. Have a great attorney. This is why you need to have a great fucking attorney. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Know what you're going into and and and rock out like that. Yeah. There it is. All right. Well, this is the official beginning of the rapid fire rampage rush. There's gonna be three little sections. I'll explain them as we go. All right. We'll just start with some real quick short answer questions. Mm-hmm. Starting with Trump has just appointed you to the brand new position of music industry czar. You can do whatever you want. What is your first order of business Hmm. as the czar? Damn. So what what are the what are my capabilities? Anything.

Anything. Pretty much like anything that the US government can do. I mean, you see what he's you see what he's doing, you know. Another. You know, just apply it to music. Right. So whatever you want. Your role is to like, you know, fix the industry. Whatever you fucking want, really. What they say? Shit, motherfucking uh. Um, you know what? I'm auditing Spotify and all of them. Ooh. And and I'm goddamn figuring out how to give artists a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And not even crazy. Not even crazy. Yeah, because you're a businessman. Yeah, you get it. Yeah, I get it. But like something maybe like a little bit more. Maybe like half a penny a stream. Just like a little bit more. Shit. Even half a penny. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's almost double. and shout out to my cousin Sonny Digital. We Real Cousin. Yeah, we we motherfucking implementing more everything in a producer union. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Shout out to Chappelle, too. We're giving artists health insurance. Mm-hmm. And we're giving living wages to those that qualify. Because we still gotta be fair. You know what I'm saying? So I'm doing shit like that. Yeah. I love it. Hell yeah. Absolutely love it. Rush, what was the last business call you were on? And what was it about? Oh man. That's a good one. That's a good one. Thank you. Actually, it was with ATL Jacob. Okay. Was on the way here. Uh I just imagine you like taking calls at all times. Oh, no, that's a fact. I do. But actually, so um, so one of so Alabama Barker, right? Travis Barker's daughter. Okay. So um, so we've been working very, very closely with her. Um, we actually took her over to Republic Records, and she's about to drop a record. You know what I'm saying?

So, nothing special. I mean, when I say nothing special, I don't mean the record. I'm saying like it's just a normal conversation. Like these are the conversations that we have. Yeah, just talking about the song and what's going on It's every day for Rush. Yeah, yeah. So talking about the song and talking about I need to hear that. You know, Okay. And ATL Jacob, Alabama Barker produced. by. ATL Jacob. And Rush D. And Jordan. Shout out to Jordan. We did Let It All Work Out for Lil Wayne. Okay. Um, I'm so proud of that. You know what I'm saying? That was actually my first plaque. My first platinum plaque was from that. We got that from Let It All Work Out. And especially right now, I can't get online without hearing the song. So Hell yeah. Shout out to Jordan too. Shout out to Jordan. Yeah, Rush, what emoji best represents you? Haha, of course, with the shades. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The cool guy. Cool guy. love that. Just the chill guy. Okay, yeah, yeah. Just a cool guy.

Chill guy. Yo, I love the uh the uh version of the chill guy where you showed the middle finger in his pocket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. Not so chill when you got him like that. Last one of the short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Probably. Damn, it's between damn and fuck. We gotta pick one. What's it gonna be? Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn's good. Damn's underrated. It's a good one. People don't give enough uh respect to Damn. Moving on to section number two, it's the this or that. So I'm gonna give you two choices. You just gotta pick one. Starting with making music or running a company. Running a company. Conga drums or saxophone? Saxophone. My dad played a saxophone. And conga drums, I think, if I read that correctly. Oh.

All right, Nardwar. Oh, okay. Damn, I used to do research. Guy gets so surprised every time I do a tiny bit of research. Anyway. Pancakes or waffles? Pancakes. Love and hip hop or NBA 2K. NBA 2K. I was actually on the producer series with Zaytoven. Mm-hmm. And you have a Love and Hip Hop Miami placement, right? Yeah. See? I'm doing some work over here. Zaytoven. we'd still love to have you on the podcast. Yeah, we almost had to have it. Long story. Yeah, long story. Look, I'm I'm here. He's here, he's fine, everything's okay. I'm good, man. Come on, Zay. Yeah, love it. Um, Rush, sign a ready-made like a star, right? Who has good talent. Or develop a newer artist with insane talent. Mm-hmm. Develop a newer artist with insane talent. You're not afraid of putting in that work to get him there. That's what I want to do right now. And actually, to just pivot a little bit, that's what I seen in ATL Jacob, the artist. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? I was like the talent is there. The talent is there, and I'm like, yo, I want to help develop and cultivate ATL

Jacob the artist. So we're pushing the artist agenda heavy this year. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I know he's been an artist, apparently I'm fucking sleeping under a rock. And he's gonna be getting placements also. No, I know. We locked and loaded. Okay, so the artist, ATL Jacob artist, is everyone's gonna know he's an artist. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like that for Be Genius because a lot of labels are not doing the artist development thing as much. So kind of is a set makes you know separates you from the crowd. Um, let's go to quality over quantity or consistency over perfection. Progression over perfection. Perfection ain't progressing. Oh, yeah, that's he modified a little bit, but I like that. Damn, that's a bar. That is good. I love that. That's it. Instagram reels or YouTube shorts. I had to get a little bit more fluent on YouTube. So do we.

So reels for now. But I'm gonna say reels right now. For Sure. Ranch or blue cheese? Ranch. Small cult fan base or massive casual fan base. Mmm. Small cult. And finally, go back to producing full time or leave the music industry forever. Hmm? Oh, producing. Easy, right? I should have said going back to rapping. I'm going straight to the studio after I leave here. There it is. Way down, way down. There it is. The last part is the word association rush. I'm gonna say one word, and I just want you to give me the first word that you think of right back to me off the top of your head. It's gonna be great. Damn. Hopefully, no one yet. Damn. Damn. You might get damn a couple times. Let's find out. Starting with music. Mogul. Air conditioning. Zoom. Because I think I see that on the side of your. Oh, that was 200 M. Oh, yes.

No, that's Zoom. That's Zoom. Oh, Zoom. Label. Accomplishments. Donkey. Of the day. Money. Hungry. Lawyer. Lawyer. Deals. Triangle. Offense. Herpes. Damn. Yeah. It's a damn. I knew we'd get a damn. I knew we'd get a damn in there. AI. Call back to our authentic intelligence. Thank you. I was like, if he's not saying it. Authentic intelligence. It's Fire. Album. Mode. Lo mein. You said Lo mein? Lo mein. Juma. Cryptocurrency. My little brother. He loves Lo mein. Big on the Lo mein. Big on the Lo mein. Big Lo mein guy. Me and me and Jim are both. Cryptocurrency. I made a lot of money with Dogecoin. Dogecoin. Really?

There it is. Hell yeah. Podcast. Podcast. One more time. Lil. Shit. B. Genius. Let's go. I thought it was Lil B. No, because I said B. Yo, appreciate you coming on the podcast, man. As always, please like, comment, subscribe. Oh my God. So many gems. Gems on gems. So much wisdom. Like the perfect balance, like I thought it would be of like the business and the creative approach. Someone who understands both, man. Yeah. Huge. These are like unicorns, y'all. So like please. I hope y'all found value in this. Watch a couple of times. We are here pretty much every week. Mostly every week. Whenever we got someone as cool as Rush D on the podcast. Oh man. That's right. Appreciate you coming on, man. Until next time. Thank you for having me. Peace, y'all. Later. Peace.