The Doechii Playbook: From Chipotle to Winning a GRAMMY

So I got fired today. I don't give a fuck. Either way, I'm gonna be straight, and the winner is... Alligator Bites never here, by Doechii. Bro, I'm gonna kick things off with this, bro. Dochi's gonna go down in history as one of the most influential artists, not rappers, not female rappers, artists of our generation. You think so? What do you think? I think it's possible. I just think that it's a it's a little early to call that, but hey, if you're right, you look like a genius. Can you tell I'm excited to talk about Dochi today? I can, Absolutely. Bro, she has had a monumental run.

Yeah, right. And I I don't know that I knew a lot about her. I wasn't one of the ones that was claiming like industry plant, right? Because I think that's a fucking just cop-out bullshit term that a lot of people like to throw around. A lot of people are just finding out about her now. Exactly. Those are the people throwing that out, but this girl's been working, y'all. Dude, she's been putting in the work, but it's been insane when I was doing the research. She literally started dropping music on SoundCloud and you know, even on just social media in in general back in like 2016. Yep. Right. So this is not some fucking overnight success, right? She's almost put in a decade, right? To get from unknown to now being the third female rapper to win a Grammy behind Miss Lauryn Hill and Cardi B, which by the way, did you for rap album? for Rap Album of the Year. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Do you know Cardi B won? Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. What was that for? Invasion, Privacy and Invasion, what's the album called? Something like that. Invasion of privacy? Invasion of privacy. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I I didn't know that either. It was pretty controversial when it won, but you know, for sure. So Lauren deserved, I think that one. Oh, we can all agree.

Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, I just want to talk about some of the things that I think, you know, all artists, regardless of honestly genre, regardless of status, right? Like, are you just getting started? Have you been doing this shit for a while? Um, I think there's just a lot of things that artists can take from her journey and like just her approach to this music shit. Um, the first one that kind of really stands out to me, man, is just her her vision as an artist, bro. She has vision. Um, I looked at some interview. It was uh it was from like 2022, so it was it was after it was like right after she got signed, because obviously she, you know, she started to get a lot of press. She was doing more interviews. But she was just talking about how like she has a five-year plan. Yeah, like she had already conceptualized her next three albums, even at that after signing with TDE. Exactly, bro. And I think um a lot of artists that we talk to, bro. I feel like they're just going like release by release. Flying by the seat of their pants. What is it? Something like that. Yeah.

No, but it's true though, man. Um, I think that when you hear, I mean, just on this podcast alone, bro. I mean, we've we've asked this question a bunch of like what are the common threads between like all superstar artists, right? Because we've had, you know, people on here that have worked with the biggest of the big, whether it's like executives that work with the biggest of the big, or whether it's other creatives, like producers, songwriters, artists. I feel like that that vision is one of the most like common responses that we get. It's, like these artists know what they want their shit to look like, what their shit to sound like. Like they have this just unwavering, crystal clear, almost irrational. Like you have to almost come off as a crazy person to sometimes, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, like Lil Wayne was saying he's the greatest rapper alive when he was like 18 years old. You know what I'm saying? Like it's it takes that sometimes. Absolutely. No, I think it's it's a combination. This is something that Doechii does has done beautifully, and I think she's literally like executed against this flawlessly, but you would have thought she was a crazy person. I mean, she has that ridiculous self-belief, right?

Like she knew she was gonna make it, like she saw the future for herself, and she wasn't gonna be satisfied until she got it, right? Um, and I think that it it's it's kind of twofold though, when I think about like an artist's vision, right? I do think it is part that, right? Just that crazy self-belief of just like, you know, manifesting what your house looks like. I mean, shit, we talked with with, uh, I think it was Udo. It was yeah, it was Udo and Manny Wells doing the vision board shit. Yeah, vision boarding, yeah, absolutely. This kind of ties into that, like the vision boarding thing, like being hyper specific, bro, of like what your life looks like or what your life is gonna look like so that you can really just back into it, right? I think it's interesting too how she really stuck to her vision in a time when she did like an interview with Breakfast Club. She's talking about how you know it was post-COVID, and she had these like dark, kind of darker kind of songs that you know were kind of therapeutic to her and meant a lot to her, and that was her vision. But people were really asking for some lighter hearted, like we're going back outside, like let's let's make some fun music. People wanted fun music, but it just wasn't where she was in her life.

It wasn't her vision, and she stuck with that. I don't know if people want to hear these dark topics. I don't know if anybody wants to hear this right now. I feel like there was a period in music where everybody was like, shut up with that conversation. Don't nobody want to hear all that. People just want to have fun right now. We got out of COVID. Don't nobody want to be sad, da-da-da-da. And I was like, I don't want my fans to listen to my music and be sad. I want them to feel good about themselves. But it's also like if I'm I have to make music for therapy for my myself. Otherwise, I'm doing it for the wrong reasons. And she still ended up connecting with the people that needed that. So not wavering necessarily away from her vision. Yeah. Even if there's outside pressures to maybe like change your vision. It's really sticking to it is big too. Oh, it's it's so incredibly beautiful to watch that like unfold. Um, so I yeah, just to break it down, I really do think it's kind of twofold, right? It's it's mindset, which is arguably might be one of the hardest parts of this business, bro. It's hard to teach, it's hard to teach, and this shit is so hard and so just like you know, uncertain, right?

That like I feel for the creatives in this business, right? And the executives, to be honest, because they're relying on the creatives and like making art in you know, to your point, in a weird time when you're not really like feeling the way that other people are feeling. Like, that's crazy. So I think it's mindset, and then I think it's the artistic vision, right? So I think it's exactly what you're talking about, where like she knew she wanted to make music that was like this, and if other people were telling her in her ear that yo, you probably should be making shit. Like, I'm sure there were so many people in her ear, bro, being like, Doechii, we ain't like the people ain't about that right now. You know what I mean? Like, you probably shouldn't make that type of music. We're going back outside, Dochi. Like, you're making this lonely music. And she was like, Fuck that. It's my vision. And she stuck to herself. And I mean, shit, even look at look at her biggest song off of Alligator Bites Never Heal, uh, denial is a River. It has no hook. Yeah, it has like these like parts of the song where she's like talking back and forth, like almost like you know, a crazy person is like talking to her inner thoughts, right? It's like her like alter ego Doechii is like talking to her throughout this song.

It's her biggest record, almost has a hundred million streams on Spotify alone, right? It's multi-platinum at this point, right? Or gonna be multi-platinum at this point. Um, and I mean, everyone would have told her, us included, bro. We're kind of part of the problem sometimes. I know. I mean, I'm worse than you, but it's like definitely I you know, we would have said, hey, your biggest song has to have a hook. I mean, I feel like we would have said that. Yeah. Your biggest song should have a hook. Typically it would. And it's, you know, I think the a lot of the guidelines that we give are more general and they're improving your chances. They're not say all, you know, end all, be all, whatever. But you know, people that have this insane, like are just vision to your point. It's like those are the people that end up really cutting through. Yeah, man. It worked for her. Yeah, no, it's it's unbelievable what she's done. So, like, you know, the timeline is basically like I said, 2016, I think is when I saw that she was like post-I mean, she was doing covers, first of all. So, like, go fucking do some covers, y'all. Because like I think Teddy Swims blew up off covers, Yeah, Doechii got her start doing covers.

There was some other fucking big A-list artist. I wish I would have written it, wish I would have written it down. Um they blew up on covers, right? So, like, everyone loves to throw shade at covers, but like, god damn it, give it a try. It's the best way to showcase your talent, but still like give people something that they're familiar with to latch on to, instead of throwing some, you know, brand new thing their way. They you know, they're not ready to digest that yet. For sure. So for sure. But no, so she was doing that in 2016, and then she she released her her, like, you know, soon-to-be viral hit, Yucky Blucky Fruitcake, right? Is that what it's called? Yucky Blucky Fruitcake? That's right. You look that up? Yeah, okay. Um, and and yeah, so like that one did catch a moment on TikTok. Yep. Right. And so that was when TikTok was, that was like pandemic shit. That's when TikTok was kind of like the main place. Which by the way, let's go ahead and point out the fact that she was on SoundCloud at a time when people were discovering music on SoundCloud. She was doing vlogs on YouTube. She was on TikTok, posting TikToks when TikTok was a thing. She wasn't afraid to use the tools and understand where music discovery is happening and adapt to those places.

We have people that are afraid to be a TikTok artist. You don't want to be labeled a TikTok artist. Guess what? Dochi was labeled a TikTok artist a couple years ago. Now she just won Grammy for best rap album of the year. So is she still a TikTok artist anymore? Y'all, you know what I mean? Or is she smart about the tools that she's using? I'm so glad you said that. And she actually put that in a bar, I'm pretty sure something about it. She's talking about, yeah, being a TikTok rapper, like a TikTok artist or making TikTok music. It's just more material. Yeah, it was it was so good. Um, but no, that's a great point, man. Because I feel like she's a beautiful example because of how authentic, like we were talking about, like and like crystal clear her artistic vision is like she's so artsy, bro. Like the shit, I mean, even back to this song in 2020, the music video for this record, bro, that caught the like TikTok wave, it was so creative. Yeah, it reminded me of some like old Missy Elliott shit, bro. Like super trippy kaleidoscope type vibes, like just real, like bright colors and just like the way she's kind of interacting with the camera. Like, she you just feel like unhinged, right?

She's got this really like powerful, like making you feel on edge, but like yet she's in total control. And you know, she's involved in the production of these videos, and she's even cited Missy, actually, as an inspiration. Okay, yeah, no, it makes makes perfect sense. And yeah, I mean, you know, speaking of her being involved, that kind of goes back to the you know the vision side of things, right? Yeah, if it's your vision and you're executing on your vision, there's certain things that you're just gonna have to do yourself. Literally, bro, and I mean it's not gonna be right. For for that that uh video alone. She came up with all the concepts, she hired the team, she drove the fucking U-Haul truck to get the props out, like she was doing everything by herself. So in a time where like y'all really are the CEOs of your business, and sometimes you are having to do the whole DIY shit just by you know consequence, right? She wasn't afraid to put in that work, man. And I think like something you and I talked about about her before we even decided to like unpack this on an episode was just her sheer work ethic, bro. Unbelievable.

No, it's it's uh it's honestly the number one thing out of all of this is that she's not afraid to get the work done. She has a vision and she will put in the work to execute that vision correctly. For sure. And I mean, we you know, we just had a multi-platinum Grammy nominated producer executive uh character. Uh the episode should be coming out soon. Um, but like he talked about the fact that like yo, he's in the studio like fucking 15 hours a day, borderline. 6 a.m. nights. Yeah, and I was kind of like, yo, is that what it takes to be successful in this shit? Or are you just like a studio rat? You know what I mean? And he was just like, look, 100% ain't good enough. Like he's having to put in 150%, and he he's he cited a lot of big artists. I mean, he's worked with Nicki Minaj, Lil Wayne, Ashanti, um, like just super big artists, and they all have that same thing in common, bro, where they're like locked the fuck in. Like, that's the most I feel like that's like such an overused phrase, but like it's honestly the motto though of 2025. It was the motto of like last quarter, too.

Yeah, Q4 2024, locked in, but hey, we're bringing it back to 2025. Lock in, motherfuckers. Yeah, like lock in, bro. You know, like because if you don't, there's someone else that's locking in and they're gonna lap you, motherfucker. Yeah, like Dochi has been doing the thing. Like, I think we posted this recently where it was like, don't talk about doing the thing. Don't plan to do the thing. Don't analyze and overthink the thing before you do the thing. Just fucking. Just do the thing. And like Dochi is such a beautiful example, and please take a page out of this playbook of like do. Yeah. Right? You're gonna fail a lot. Like, she didn't, like I said, she's been doing this for a decade, right, bro? She didn't just automatically succeed. Not everything that she was doing was the right thing to probably be doing, and it didn't all work, you know, perfectly throughout her career. She figured out what wasn't working five times faster than all you motherfuckers that are just sitting there like wondering and planning and not doing. Absolutely, bro.

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Okay. The next thing I love about Dochi that I think every artist can study, man. And we've had people, you know, mention this like idea on the podcast before. Um, but like her live performance is unbelievable. It's second to none, bro. I mean, let's just even take her tiny desk, yeah, right? Like, as just a prime example. It's gonna, once again, bro, mark my words, dude. This artist, like that performance alone is gonna go down in history as one of the most influential tiny desks as well. Um, and shout out to our guy Slim Wave, who musically directed. Helps direct it, yeah. Exactly. So, like, oh man, beautiful, beautiful live performance. But then you look at like her Camp Flog Gnaw performance, her Lollapalooza performance, and then you go back to even video footage, bro, of her playing tiny ass fucking clubs. Like, there had to have been 10 people in the room, but this fucking superstar had choreographed dancers on stage with her before before anyone should be doing that, right? And that's because she understands like the power, dude, of a live performance, man.

And just if you guys are still just pacing back and forth across the stage slowly in 2025, give it up. Jesus. just give it up. It's not for you. This isn't for you. Don't give it up, but just let's tweak. You're not trying hard enough. And I don't know if you have the mindset to try hard enough. If you're still just doing that, like you're playing your MP3, you're walking left, you're walking right, and you're catching maybe half of your bars. This isn't for you. Oh my god, there's something else. Dude, No, I'm sorry, don't quit yet. I mean, there's too much music being released. Hopefully, they're listening. Hopefully, they're listening to this podcast in hopes of like understanding what Dochi's doing to like reach Grammy winning superstar status. So, like, there's still a chance, bro, for those that have just been playing their MP3s. and walking back and forth. Maybe you can make a radical shift. You can, bro. But I I believe in y'all. Fuck Henry. Um, but no, so I just think like her, and she's been vocal about this, bro. Like her uh willingness to leave it all on the stage, bro, or leave it all on the tiny desk, like whatever performance she's doing. I mean, look at even her uh her swamp sessions, which were like kind of the performance style, like mini music video things that she was doing for you know her album rollout.

Um, those are incredible, bro. Something part of that I gotta say though, it might be just like she's built for like some of the shit she does physically to still be like hitting notes is like actually insane. I mean, I think she's probably out here like doing cardio and stuff too, like really putting in the work to be able to pull some of this shit off, bro. Bro, play Nissan Altima right now, please. Can we pull can we pull up the is it the flog now? Because I think this is a better example of the physical weight, Doechii's performance at the Grammys, the Grammys, 2020. Yeah, the Grammy performance. Okay, Dochi Grammy performance. Okay, let's yeah, let's pull up the Grammy performance from Dochi. And five, she's like tumbling around, flipping and doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. This is what I'm saying, bro. Okay, here we go. Here we go. I ain't a killer, but don't push me. Don't want to have to turn the cuts in the solar. Dochi bringing the energy to the Grammy stage with a shit. But like, bro, even that, like kicking a guy over, she's still hitting it, she's still hitting every bar, like getting she's a fucking athlete, bro. She looks like a track star right there, or like an MMA fighter borderline.

She doesn't even sound like she's out of breath. No, Like, how? So, like, breathing exercises? what can people take away from this though? Like hit the gym. I mean, a lot of it goes for yeah, hard work, I think. Like she's been practicing her live performance since before anyone was really even showing up. There is a reason why Dave Blunt's live performance is ass. I mean, well, he's sitting down for most of it with an oxygen tank. Man needs oxygen. That's facts. Anyways, man. Um, so something else that I think um is really applicable to like most artists, right? Is just the the way that she rolled out this project, bro. And like call it a mixtape, call it an album. I don't give a fuck. She called it a mixtape. I know, but people think that that's like some It doesn't mean anything. Super cool thing. It means nothing. Shout out to you, Dochi, but like I don't really think that matters, but that's for another day. But yeah, so alligator bites never heal. I think there's just so much to learn from this this rollout, bro. Um, from the colors, bro. I mean, everything is like in that color palette. Like, pull up the uh cover art real quick for alligator bites uh yeah, never heal.

Everything from the track list to the cover art to the music videos to the swamp sessions, uh that were like the kind of mini music videos that that you know rolled out during the project. I love some of the some of the names of the songs are very indicative of like growing up in the south, you know, in Tampa, like you got Fireflies and you got uh Bullfrog and you got um For sure. No, we really got to know that this girl's from Florida, yeah. Like it was just it was super like woven into every every bit of this project, right? Like alligators, obviously, Florida Gators, right? Um uh the you know the greens and the browns and the and the whites, like that whole color palette was just like kind of reminiscent of like swamps, right? And she even refers to her, you know, herself as like the swamp princess, right? Yeah, swamp princess. that was a huge part of it, is just really like leaning into that like swamp mentality. Um and so for me, man, I just think like everything was so cohesive about it, bro. Like it all made sense, and I think that you know, a lot of times when I'm working with artists, right?

I just think that sometimes um it doesn't make sense. Yeah, a lot of artists are just making songs, you know, and then they put them on a playlist and they call it an album, but it's like it's gotta be so much bigger than that. But that's even the surface of it, bro. It's completely the surface of it. That's no, I'm saying, like, even that example is scratching the surface of the problem. Like, yeah, sonically and like songwriting-wise and thematically within the music, you're right. There we're not, we gotta do better. There's gotta be more thought. We gotta do better with that. But then I mean, even just like, why did we shoot the music video in this location? Yeah, why did we to your point call the song, right? This thing. Why did we name the project what we named it? Why did we choose the colors for the cover art? And did the colors even translate to every music video? Like every single video had like elements of that shit. You know what I mean? Um, so I just think, yeah, to your point, bro. Like, we gotta really we gotta script this out a little bit better. We gotta really like just it's just like to make people remember it.

It's so much easier to remember something that like has these cohesive units, right? All the way down to literally the makeup she wore, you know, at an event to look like an alligator. I mean, it's any time. She did that? Yeah. it was creepy too. Maybe you could pull up a picture of it. Yeah, because that's how, I didn't see that. It's creepy. Her eyes look creepy. She did it to look like an alligator, and they're like I don't know. She put, like, alligator makeup, do you, maybe? She has like nice eyes, but it made them look I don't like it, but but it it it hit home for me, you know what I mean? Swamp glamour. In the summertime. Um, and I think I think we nailed it. I just like to express myself artistically, and um gators, their eyes are actually like this, and so I just wanted to reflect that in my look. like what specifically though? What is she? I don't know. There's no eyebrows, no eyebrows. And they're like horizontal, like almost stretched. Like the black on the eyes or whatever, it's kind of like makes a shape and looks like they're shaped away. Yeah. But what the fuck are y'all doing if you ain't wearing alligator makeup to support your Alligator Bites never heal project? That's right.

Every time you go in public, every time you go to posts, if you're working on an album rollout, like you should be thinking about how to incorporate this entire world that you're creating. It is world building, which is one of those buzz words that people are sick of, but like that's what it is. Here's the look, guys. Whoa. And that's what her eyes look like. You know what I mean? That's just the tiniest little thing, but it it it adds to the world. And I I we buy in more the more details like this that we get. And they seem small, but they all add up to this great thing. So, bro, if there's one thing in the Dochi playbook that everyone should be taking away from this, like what's yours? There's nothing that I can point to more than her dedication, her hard work, her and her belief in herself. I think those are kind of separate, but they all like tie into the same thing of just you have an artistic vision as an artist, and you need to be able to do whatever the hell it is that you gotta do to achieve that vision, you know? And I think it takes more work than people, at least most people are willing to give.

How much are you willing to give? How much are you willing to give to achieve your dreams? You know? Oh, wait. From Chipotle to the Grammys, baby. Shout out to Dochi, man. I'm telling you. Swamp Princess! Stand by my words. This girl is gonna go down in history. She's one of the most influential artists of all time. Love you, Dochi.