How to Get Your Music on Playlists ft. Groover Co-Founder

I think she went to like 200 or 300,000 monthly listeners from nothing. Never pay for a service that guarantees you streams and placements. Spotify knows it's like artificial streams and they won't be paying royalties to you for that and they will be penalizing you. There are no sex playlists on Spotify. It's not about finding objectivity because sometimes you were saying about expectations, but some artists are telling us I expect objective feedback. It's like it doesn't exist. It's music. Every artist on planet earth is trying to crack the code of how to get on playlists. But if you've ever tried to search for contact info of some of these independent playlists on streaming platforms, you really can't find it. That's where Groover comes in. On today's episode, we sit down with the co-founder of Groover, Dorian Perone, and talk about all things playlisting. We talk about maximizing your chances of how to land your music on these playlists, the type of expectations you should have before you spend any money on a playlisting campaign, and what role playlisting should play in your overarching music promotion strategy. But the real question we asked him that we know all you guys are wanting to know is what do you say when people claim this whole playlisting industry is a freaking scam?

We talked about that and more on today's episode. Let's get into it. This conversation that we want to have uh is really important for our community. I would say the one of the number one questions that we get asked is definitely around playlisting. How do I get on playlists? What are curators looking for? How does it work? Are platforms like Groover, you know, SubmitHub, etcetera, like what kind of value can they bring to me as an artists, right? Like these are common things that we hear from our community. So appreciate you coming on the podcast to, you know, talk about some of these topics that I think you know, Groover's a part of this overarching like ecosystem, right? So in your mind, where does like playlisting fit into the music promotion ecosystem as a whole? Yeah, it's a it's a good question for sure.

And um, and it's interesting to say that like uh with Groover when we started, we didn't address at all the playlisting uh topic. The idea was mainly to be able to connect artists with music curators, tastemakers. In the beginning, it was mostly blogs in 2018. Um a bit like online radio stations. Uh, we also connecting artists with like record labels, managers, publishers, so it's a bit larger than that. But then what we saw happening is the rise of the weight of playlists as a way to make your music discovered. Um, and so of course we went in that direction as well. And like it's Groover is not only a playlisting platform at all, but it's a big part of the community that we have of creators that you can get in touch with. And playlisting is important because it's a way to directly generate um new listenings to find new people that are gonna discover your music, uh, to grow your audience, and it's possibly available to everyone, which is nice. And it can also be something you build up a presence of a playlist quite quickly and often more quickly than what would you do on social media.

But it's important to understand that it's not the only thing that you can't focus only on playlisting. Um, and uh you'll need to do a lot of other things, and we're probably gonna um talk about that. Um, it's also playlisting can be really good for certain types of music, for certain types of artists, but sometimes it won't work as well for other types of music. Um, in fact, if I take like hip-hop or rap, uh it's much more direct, like on a direct audience thing. Like artists are connecting directly with their audience, and and you see that at like their streams are not coming too much from playlists. Uh, but if you look on the contrary uh at um, for example, like lo-fi beats music or ambient music, or even like indie folk music, you can see that a lot of the the audience is going through playlists to discover new music. So it really depends on the like there's a lot of different um like the weight of playlist is different depending on the music you're doing and producing. Interesting.

Yeah, it's wild because like my Spotify rapped, I'm pretty sure last year, if not last year, definitely will be this year, is like all chill acoustic instrumentals. Because like I'm just searching up on Spotify, chill acoustic, uh, you know, chill acoustic instrumentals, because I I find it very easy to work to that music. Whereas like hip-hop, which is something that I listen to majority when I'm like actively listening and like seeking out music, that's more for me, you know, uh, to kind of like choose my own song, choose my own artist, etcetera. I don't rely to your point on playlisting as much, but I don't know who the chill acoustic artists are out there, right? So, like for me, it's very easy to kind of use playlisting for that. Do you think that like how much active listening versus passive listening is happening on playlists? Would you say it also depends on the the kind of music? I think that for like what you were saying, like chill and acoustic and ambient, uh it's it can be very passive, but it could also be some uh the listeners could be listening a lot to the tracks because if they're listening to the playlist uh in a row and always going to the same playlist to work as you were saying, or for their routine.

Uh it could be it's it's the same also with music for like gym and workout. It's like it's a big uh it's a big thing. There are also like uh playlists for like erotic or sex moments is something, it's a big thing. on Spotify, yeah, totally. Oh, Henry, should we... no, we shouldn't have to do it. It's a funny, no, it's actually a funny, uh funny part because um there are no sex playlists on Spotify that I there are no editorial ones, they're only the independent ones. So some of the independent playlists that are the biggest worldwide are the ones related to sex to sex and erotic things because uh Spotify doesn't have editorial playlists for that, and you see it's very funny. Like if you have a track that get into gets into like one of the biggest ones of the it's usually like RB, kind of like this kind of vibe, like very smooth and everything. Um, you'll see your your audience is gonna be like you have peaks on the weekends. Yeah, it's it's very it's very funny. Honestly, it's very it's it's crazy. Like you know, like you know what's happening, you know when people are like putting those playlists.

So I'm gonna send my wife one of these playlists and like it's it's just it's market research, honey. It's work, yeah. We're researching. Yeah, this is for work. No, that's that's really interesting. Wow. I'd, I'd never even I didn't even know that those uh playlist types of playlists existed because we're Americans and it's so taboo for us for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. I really understand it. And it's interesting what you were saying about like passive and active listening, is like uh I think the discovery playlist, like uh Discover Weekly or Discovery Radar, these algorithmic players are much more active listening because people going to these places are actually actively searching for new music. But it's it's interesting to see that globally on on streaming platforms now. Um, you have like hundreds of millions of subscribers, billions of people listening to music on streaming apps. Um, and the big majority now are not like active listeners. They are more like looking for a vibe or they're looking for music, but they're not looking for, oh, I want to dig new music, new tracks. It's it's a small portion of the people that are on these platforms in the beginning.

Like the first subscribers to Spotify were mainly people who were active listeners, but now it's not the case. So the list, like the listening that happens on stream platforms is in majority passive. I think artists need to just accept that as reality too. I think in my mind, a lot of, you know, and I'd be interested to get your take. Like uh a lot of what we talk about artists, you know, with is like expectations, right? And I think just having the correct expectations when it comes to like how people are consuming music. Like we just interviewed the uh co-founder of Audio Mac. We just had him on the podcast, and he talked a lot about like listener behavior because he obviously runs a DSP, so he has so much data on like how people are listening to music, right? And and how it works. Um, and like just you know, the data points he was sharing with us were were pretty eye-opening. What what would you say, you know, the expectations are like if I'm an artist and I want to go enter into a playlisting campaign, what would be your like, you know, cautionary like advice, or like how how how would you set my expectations realistically before I enter into this campaign? What you can expect from a playlisting campaign is you can expect if you spend time to target the right playlists, and if your track has a format that can correspond to playlists, which is not something that is very like typical, but there are some tracks where you listen to them, you know it's going to be complicated to be featured in a playlist, and we can we can talk like further about that like later on.

But the expectations would be that your track is going to get added to some of these playlists. Then what you can expect in terms of the number of streams you would get depends on the playlist, of course. But I wouldn't be expecting thousands of streams coming from each playlist to get into. I would be mostly like trying to expect, Okay, I'm getting added to a playlist. I hope it's a place that will really like my track and keep it for a long time, at least a month, or obviously um hoping for more, and possibly bringing a few dozen streams a day or like uh even like 20, 30, 50 streams a week, if it stays for a long time, it can really build up, knowing that then you can get added to a lot of playlists. The other thing is I wouldn't expect from like one playlist placement on like an independent playlist to do to bring something very significant. I would really try to build up and try to get added to more and more playlists because you never know which ones are gonna really make your your track grow.

And at the same time building up with multiple playlists like this, it's feeding very positively the algorithms, algorithms on Spotify for your presence then on algorithmic playlists. Um so I would like expect not having like one place be crazy impact, but trying to build up getting added to a lot of plays that make sense, that the which editorial makes sense, which artists that are featured in makes sense also in in terms of cluster of artists, trying to get added to a lot of them to build up that kind of snowball of your your visibility and your orders there. What about uh, what I would be expecting? What about acceptance rate? If I apply to a hundred playlists, what can I maybe expect? How many can I expect to get on? If you use Groover, you can expect the average is between 20 and 25% acceptance rate, but it's an average, and it's very like it varies a lot depending on the quality of your music, of course, but also how you've targeted and the type of music you're doing, but especially how you've targeted and um and the quality of your music. We have artists that are submitting and getting added to all the playlists they submitted to uh because they really targeted well and the track is amazing, and it's very like it's corresponding perfectly to what this playlist creators are looking for.

With tracks Sometimes that are very hybrid and with like a format that can be a bit complicated, even if it's very high quality, you can have like uh acceptance rates that would be lower even when the playlist creators actually like the track because there will be or that doesn't correspond to the editorial. So it's one of the the thing here. But when you're submitting yourself outside of Groover to playlists that you can get in touch with on Facebook or Instagram, it's really low acceptance rate, uh low uh answer rate, but still I would recommend artists to do that to do that research of what are the cool playlists that could be great for them. Try to position that because even if you build like one, two or three cool relationships with great playlists outside of any other platform, it can be someone that supports your music for all your next releases as well. So, you know, we did a little research, of course, before this, and you know, even in our own conversations with artists, um these playlisting companies, right? Like playlist submission companies, whether it's Submit hub, Playlist Push, Groover, there are, of course, some negative sentiments that pop up from time to time online, and I do think, from my own perspective, it maybe has to do a lot with exactly what we were just talking about from the expectation side of the house.

And also not properly pitching or doing the research to pick the right playlist potentially. All the things, right? But I think so. So one commenter, once again, like deep in the inter interwebs. Playlist submission platforms range from better than nothing to waste of money to outright scam. So just like a comment like that, I want to give you the opportunity to just like address like how you feel, generally speaking, about the playlist company like ecosystem, right? Because I know you guys are a industry leader in the space. So just even speaking on behalf of other, you know, companies, right? Like that are doing it, you know, the right way. How do you respond to that type? Because I'm sure you get this all the time in your comment section, in the Reddits, in the YouTube comments, wherever, right? What's your very emotional? Like Groover or this uh submission platform are very emotional products. And the reason for that is what you were saying, it's because we're trying to do it the right way, which is not guaranteeing a spot because you have a lot of services that you can find online that are doing a lot of ads, and you can find as an artist, as like we're gonna give you 15,000 streams, which is in the end what a lot of artists want.

It's like getting more streams from the services and from what they pay and what they invest in. Um, the problem with these services is that every time you'll see a service that guarantees you streams, that guarantees you a number of streams, guarantees you placements, all the time it's gonna be a scam because it means that in the background they're running something that is not going through the way Spotify wants in terms of guidelines and everything. And they're getting flagged. And the problem right now with the system is that these services when they run, either it's like bot farms or like bot playlists or fake uh playlisting strategies to try to bring your streams at um at like at a specific moment. They will bring you the streams, you will think the streams are working, but in the background, Spotify knows it's like artificial streams, and they won't be paying royalties to you for that, and they will be penalizing you for the what's what's happening there. There are a lot of scam companies like that. Like one of the biggest ones is waiver.ai. They created a lot of different names.

Then there's Nvoo and there's Chartmob. It's always the same company that are creating like this whole names. And what they do is usually they add a track, uh, random tracks to their place for one day. So the artist sees that is like, what? what is that playlist that added me for a day and brought me like 3,000 fake streams, but you don't know at a time. And then uh the artist would reach out and try to pay for a package to get more. It's their whole like system is like that. Whoa, that's kind of because that's low-key genius. I was I was working scam I've ever heard. I was working with an artist the other day. He pulled up his uh Spotify for artists for me, and he was like, I got this crazy spike. This one day, really randomly, I got added to some playlist. And and now I think I probably know why. Totally It's exactly that. No, it happens to a lot of artists, and what's what happens next is that um if you don't like you're not able like to match this, and uh sometimes like Spotify will penalize you for this, uh, which is really bad. And also, like it's it's like it's it's crazy that like Spotify isn't able to like identify this beforehand, but then when you report the playlist and everything, they take them down.

But there's a whole like scam around that that is happening that is very, very uh disturbing. But just to go back to this, it's the reason why these scams work, not don't work for the artists, but work in terms of the people running the scams. They're able to happen. It's it's because of the expectations because the artist wants one the streams in the end. They want to be placed. So the the inherent problem with uh platforms like SubmitHub or Groover or Playlist Push is that people are we present that we're gonna guarantee that the creators are gonna answer and give a reply. Not that they're gonna place, but what the artists want to is to be placed. So they're paying for something with an expectation that is not exactly what we can promise. Yeah, and we know that from the start. Um, and that's why we're trying to be super vocal and explain that and everything, but still there's the possibility that you're gonna be placed. But the thing about expectation is very is very important about like what you were saying about the how emotional it is. Yeah, sometimes it's very depressing for us at Groover because we're seeing like this. there was one Reddit post.

I think it's called like the truth about Groover and something. That's the one that's actually the one where the comment came from. It's terrible. It's terrible. And the one the guy who's commanding, I I made like a big comment. I read your reply. Henry was like the whole team Dorian after it. I'm just gonna go ahead and no, and I was like, and and I I thought about that because it's like I I checked his whole campaign, and it's like it's true, he got like some some approvals, some rejections. He was above average approvals. It was above it was above average, and also he got placed on some very big ones. And when you were looking at his like Spotify profile, all the top playlists and his discovered on sections were coming from Groover. Yeah, that's the best. part. So that has to hurt, man, as a fucking founder, yeah, to be like, this was supposed to be like a win for us. Like you just crushed it, dude. Yeah, and he's here tearing you to pieces. It's Like no, it was it was that. And it's also because like sometimes like one bad reply, one bad comment by a creator will ruin the experience for the artist. Oh, dude.

Which is which is crazy. But that's how it is in general, man. Like just go to a fucking artist social media, they'll point out, and like we're even victim of this sometimes, like in our own brains. A hundred good comments. And the one fucking like you suck, quit music today. That one comment will just ruin your whole mindset, dude. And and apparently, like I I saw some studies about that. Um, and I and really resonated is that because it's because of how we we don't as humans, uh human beings, uh biologically, it's like we made, we triggered, we wired to uh look for danger. So I was like, I was thinking I don't know which rapper it was. I think it was a famous like French rapper. He was on a TV show, and he was saying that he was receiving a lot of like very good and tweet tweets from fans and everything. And he was like, if I get like one bad tweet during the day, it's gonna kill my day the whole day. And I was like, man, you're successful, you have like uh awards and everything, everything's going fine for you, and you're gonna get like one bad comment, and you got it's gonna kill your day. So that's part of the thing.

Yeah, it's like I know like we there's no other way because we tried removing the feedback, we tried removing it and have only like people accept or decline everything. What happened is that the acceptance rate decreased in a phenomenal way, because like the fact that we're asking the creators to give feedback forces them to really consider the track and consider whether they want to share it or not and go forward or not with the track. When they don't have to give feedback, they don't engage the same way with the track, and so they reject it in in a lot of cases. It was it was crazy numbers. It was like people were declining tracks four times more when they didn't have to give feedback and write a reply. Because it's just one click. Just one click. It's just one click. It's just one click. And you don't, you don't feel like you're talking and interacting with someone. So you don't feel that you have you can have impact on the person on the other side. So it's a lot about that. So even when you like the track, like, oh, it's easier for me to reject it. Um, but when you engage with it, it's a bit different.

And that's why we kept the feedback, it's because it's better for the artists in the end, if you're looking at the output, which is how I'm gonna get some shares, but at the same time, it's creating a lot of frustration. Um, and it's fully understandable and it's it's hard on a daily basis. But like I made a bit of peace with it. Uh, we're like, we keep on improving the system to make sure like the bad uh the ones that are not writing good feedback, we really help educate them or we ban them from the platform. We're very harsh with the creators. Like it's it's one of the things that we like artists wouldn't see, but sometimes with some creators, we're like, we're so pissed at what they're doing. We're like talking shit to them. Like we like, you know, it's no, it's like we're hard with them. Yeah, um, but still, like in the end, uh, it will depend on the expectations and also how you feel about like getting feedback and everything. But uh, and then to end up on that, it's funny also to see that when we started out with Groover, people were more amazed by the system because it didn't exist before, and they were like, Wow, I can get that many replies, and some are gonna place my music, I'm gonna get my track playing on the radio and everything. And they were like amazed about it.

But now that it's getting like a common thing, it's like people are much more like criticizing the whole thing. And they're right, and most of the time that there are a lot of things that and a lot of flaws that we need to improve on, but uh improve and and fix, and we're working um very hard on it, but uh at the same time it all comes to as you were saying, like expectations it's it's a bit of a gamble, you know. I mean, you're kind of like you're kind of gambling a little bit. I don't know if a lot of people are used to that. And we're talking about artists and their art, which are, I mean, this these are sensitive people. And I mean, let me just get your your take on this, right? Because I think this is also once again in the whole light of trying to set expectations properly. So if I'm gonna spend, let's say $300 on a campaign, right? Just you know better than anyone, probably the data points around that. Is it safe to say that I will not make $300 back in streaming royalties? Is that a fair statement?

It's and I think in the majority of cases it will be um in a direct way, totally like you you're not gonna make like this return directly. And that's all I that's it's yeah. So if that's having said that, how should artists be looking at this financially? Because that's that's that's what I think it is, right? If I'm gonna spend $300, I need to know I'm not gonna make it back in my fucking distributor, you know, my my uh distribution. Immediately, yeah, like my streaming royalties. That's not gonna happen. So, how should I be looking at it? It's very interesting what you're saying because it's exactly that. It's um a lot about expectations. We have a lot of artists that are using the platform, they're making this crazy calculation about oh, it costs me this, and even if I get this number of streams, I'm gonna get that number of royalties. But it's more like the direct impact of it that they're measuring. But it's not about that. If you're going for that, if you're using playlisting platform and if you're using submission platforms because you expect to make your direct revenue from the promotion campaigns, you shouldn't do it. Doing it wrong.

Yeah. Yeah, you're doing it wrong. Like honestly, it's not the goal. It can have like it can have honestly some impact, but it's more about like the indirect impact it will have. There are many ones. The first one is like if you get placed to the good, like independent playlists, and at the same time you're good on social media, maybe you're running ads, and you're going over some certain thresholds of streams. Thanks in part to playlists, it can contribute to like 20% or 15%, 25%, 30% of your number of streams. And you're going over a certain threshold of streams. Uh like Andrew Southworth said, it was around like 10,000, he did a study. It can change with them, but it can trigger the your Spotify popularity index will trigger the discover weekly, your placement and discover weekly in the algorithmic playlist if you go over a certain threshold of streams in the first 28 days. And if you do this the right way and you go over that barrier, that threshold, and playlist is a very good source of streams for that because it's organic streams, then um you're gonna get placed better in algorithmic playlists and indirectly, you're gonna get more streams from this source. This is one of the most direct thing that we see when people are trying to get placed on independent playlists.

But another thing, if you look at the big picture, yeah. Um, so I'm starting DJing. Um, a lot of producers that are DJing, um they were telling me it's important to have a certain number of monthly listeners on my profile when I'm trying to get booked somewhere. There's there are direct things like that. It's like you're working, you have you're good, you're very good DJ, and you started producing, but you only have a few hundred monthly listeners on your profile. Some clubs are gonna look at that and they're gonna say, I'm not sure this person can bring a crowd. Maybe you can, but they use the data point of your number of streams and the monthly listeners. I would say like Instagram followers and monthly listeners, and a combination of the two is the is one of the things that can help you go the forward the most when getting gigs. Uh I think labels do Look at look at that for artists when they're trying to sign artists. Same thing. Totally. Totally. Because yeah, it's it's sad, but the reason for that is because when labels are looking at that, they're looking and uh festivals or clubs, it's the same thing. They're trying to de-risk the investment.

So they're trying to say, if I book that person or if I sign that artist, um, I'm gonna be it's gonna be a sound investment. And the reason for that is that I'm seeing that that artist is already generating things organically. So if I held them on their like release, if I have book them, it's gonna bring more people and and because they're already having a crowd, they're already having a fan base. And the way to show that is through these numbers. So if you're looking at this with this big picture, um, like not doing a playlisting campaign or not investing on ads or not investing on producing content on social media because you think you're not gonna get your investment directly in. It's the same with ads. Like if you say, I'm gonna spend, I don't know, like $300, you're not gonna get that in royalties directly uh back. But if you look at the big picture, this like building up this kind of organic fan base from out of nowhere because everybody starts nowhere at first, most like most people, it's gonna, it's what's gonna help you unlock the opportunities that gonna make what can be a career then. So it's more like looking at the big picture then it's, are you ready to lose money and the start?

Uh you but it's it's the same with every marketing thing. Like with Groover, we're investing in ads. We like for a long time, we're not getting our investment back. Yeah. Um, and and in many occasions we're not getting our investment back, but we're seeing that maybe in one year or two years we'll get it back. Yeah. No, I mean, I I think I I think it's exactly like ads, right? Because if you do a one-to-one comparison of if I spend $1 on ads, am I gonna make $1 back in streaming royalties? The answer is absolutely not. Like it's just otherwise you would just feed it infinitely and you would never stop. If it was a guaranteed strategy like that, there would be a no-brainer every artist should be able to do it. Infinity money glitch. Exactly, right? So I just I just wanted us to unpack that, like the money exchange, right? Because like to your point, you've had successful artists. What's what's like your favorite case study or like you know what I mean? Use case of a of an artist who's used your platform successfully, like the right way, right?

That I think our artist community could benefit from. Oh, I have one example coming to mind. Um, and and it's not because she only used Groover, it's also because she used Groover as part of like a more uh global strategy, which is how you should use it, right? Totally, like entirely like it's not sufficient. In some occasions, it can be one of the key things if like it really resonates on that, and you're like not a big social media person, but you still want to like it. Can be something, but here like it was interesting because she she didn't have a big presence on social media, and she decided to release like one track a month. Some her own production, some would be collabs, some would be remixes, but she's like for a year, I'm gonna release like one thing, like one track, one project per month, which is crazy insane. But at the same time, she was like, I'm gonna do do it this way. And for every track she was promoting them to on Groover and getting playlist placements, they were she was also submitting to like opportunities. That's how we we discovered her, and we had her play on one of the shows we uh organized.

Um then she was promoting the tracks uh to uh also like radio stations to um uh she was also doing uh some TikTok videos that like maybe 50 or 100 people were watching first, but she was doing some covers on social media and very trying to be active with this. And for the two or three first releases, it was not impressive. She got a few placements in playlists, and and then and social media was starting to like there was something happening, but very, very low. And then when we started to grow through like play uh playlisting and social media combined, it helped her go over like certain thresholds, and she ended up with some collabs and everything go and grow to. I think she went to like 200 or 300,000 monthly listeners from nothing in in the course of a year, just doing what she wanted and releasing these tracks, and partly through the playlist placement she would she was getting through uh through Groover, and then she got spotted by the Spotify team, and she got she got some editorial placement, she got into like the equal. I don't know, I don't know if you know like the equal.

playlist. So she got into that in France and everything, and she started to grow this way, and she keeps on using Groover for every campaign because all the time it's bringing her like somebody new that's gonna appreciate her music. Um, and what you were saying about ads is interesting. It's like you're not gonna get it back in streams right now. But if as part of the people that are gonna save your track and listen to it, some of them are gonna really follow what you do and are gonna come to your shows and everything. The lifetime value you might get from these people can cover in the end what you've spent in in ads. Right. Um and um it's the same like with uh what what I was making the comparison with Groover is like um when we do running some ads, we're doing a lot of like Google search ads, like when people are looking for uh promotion and everything, we're trying to be present there, and so we're paying for that. Uh we're not making back the investment when they pay the first time. Like they cost us more to acquire than their first campaign payment. But if they come back, then it's because it starts to be a break-even thing. Yeah.

And we have like so we need to have like um artists coming back and good retention. And that's one of the things that's interesting about like what you were saying about expectations and some artists being like pissed, pissed. What we're seeing is that even artists that are pissed are coming back and using it again. They're like uh fuck it, let me try it again. Maybe I did something wrong. Um I hope you guys are enjoying the conversation. I want to take a quick moment to tell you about our pals at DistroKid. You can't get your music onto streaming platforms without a distributor, and DistroKid is an excellent choice to handle that for you. For the ridiculously low price of $23, you can upload unlimited music for an entire year that is less than $2 a month. I tripped on $2 walking down the street earlier. They have countless features to help you out on your musical journey. One of my favorites is split. Instead of my collaborators hitting me up all the time saying, Where's my fucking money? I can input everyone's percentage when I upload the music, and DistroKid will handle it. I've personally used DistroKid for many years and can genuinely recommend them as a great tool to get your music out into the world. And if you sign up at omtdistro.com, you'll get 30% off an already insanely low price.

This is absolute peanuts for unlimited uploads yearly. We wish you the best with your creating. Let's get back to it. How early should an artist start running a playlist and campaign? If I was to like produce a first track and I want to release it, I would run a playlisting campaign. I think one of the cool things with playlisting is that you'll send your track. If the playlist creator likes your music, they will feature it. Which is very different from what happens with like media outlets and possibly radio stations sometimes, or even like social media featuring you or not, social media like influencer featuring you or not, is that if your track is good or has hit like the right target, and you have like a good image around what you're doing, it's likely gonna get playlisted, even if you have zero listener, um, which is a cool thing. So to me, like playlisting is a good thing because it can be something you start you do from the start, like it's your first release. I would actually advise you to run a playlisting campaign to gain your first like listeners on top of the people you know. Because if you your first release, mainly the people who know about music are your friends and your family.

Nobody has heard about your music yet. So to build this up, it's gonna get it's gonna get take some time. And playlisting is a way to grow that in some way. Um, ads could be great, but I wouldn't start with ads at first, but then when you get to understand better your audience and everything, you can and you and if you get to become a geek of that or you look at the right sources, you can definitely try to run ads if you have budget. But playlisting is also sometimes more affordable for so it's it's this is like ads in the long run can be can bring you really like a lot of traction and everything, but it needs um a minimum investment that's higher than what you can do and try out when you do playlisting. Uh, for example, on Groover, we saw like the minimum is like 10 bucks. I I don't advise you to spend 10 bucks because if you get like five replies, uh or maybe one doesn't answer. Uh two say it's not exactly the editorial line. Uh one uh says that there's a good piece of feedback and one shares, you're gonna be like, okay, it's cool.

I got one share for 10 bucks. I don't exactly see like and one good piece of feedback. But if you start sending it to like 30 or 50 curators and get 30 or 50 replies, which like six, seven or like eight or maybe more shares and a lot of like good quality feedback and a part of like more standardized replies, then it's not what they're looking for. You're gonna get okay. I see it. I see, I see like I see the the um the impact it can have because compared to like sending emails to people are having zero replies, uh having like 30 to 50 replies from people who are actually qualified and everything and could be interesting for your music, It makes sense. Um so I honestly I would start you could start with your first release. OK, wow. Really start with your first release. Do people um do artists get any type of data about the people listening to their songs when they do get on playlists? Is any of that can you learn anything about the listeners or kind of figure out through Spotify for artists? Um then uh like there's no like it's so the data around playlist is it's not completely open.

It's open only to like when you're an artist and you're featured on a playlist, you can see how many streams it generates. Um, but you don't have a lot of information about your demographics for this playlist inclusions. You have information about the demographics of your audience more generally speaking. So maybe if you looked at your demographics before the playlist campaign and then compared it with your demographics after. Could kind of get an idea, potentially. Hey, you know, that's fucking smart. Big brain over here. Yeah, making some screenshots before and after is a really good, it's a good, really good way to see how it impacted your audience. And it's interesting because also playlists, um, a lot of the place creators we have on Groover, they have like a real global and audience. So they could have like people listening to uh their playlists in many different countries. Some of them are much more localized. Um, and uh it's interesting to see that you can get on a big playlist and you'll see a lot of audience coming from that playlist in a specific region. And also with some types of music, it's gonna resonate a lot with audiences in specific countries and not in other countries.

It's not something you might know in advance, but by these trials and errors, you can find that like your music is gonna work super well in a specific place. Uh I know that like there are like some French artists that have their biggest audience in Mexico City. It's like, but uh some of them speaking uh uh singing in English or French. You know, maybe you know Phoenix, the band. Oh uh it's a uh uh they played at the like closing uh closing ceremony of the Olympics. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're from France, they sing in English, and I think like Tom and Yeah, um, they have their biggest city in the world listening to their music is Mexico City. And there's another and there's another uh band that's singing in French called L'Impératrice, L'Imperatrice, and uh they when they like um when they their biggest city is also Mexico City, and all the lyrics are in French, so it's crazy. But so you can't know in advance, but sometimes you'll find interesting things through these campaigns and people actually listening to music and connecting to it. So what's what's like one mistake that an artist can make that would just kill their chances of playlist ads?

I would say never pay for a service that guarantees you streams and placements. What I said in the beginning, never do it. Um, there's a lot of packages on Fiverr. There's a lot of websites that are offering like you a boost. Every time you see something that is like organic listeners guaranteed, like flee, flee. Don't pay for it. And like it's the worst thing that can happen there. Um, and honestly, yeah, I would recommend like never using those services, like never, never, never. Um, this is one of the big mistakes you can make. Uh, what about on Groover? Like, is there language that they could use that's just not professional, or are they not describing their tracks well? Or I would say like it's not really a mistake, but it's a missed opportunity when you don't fill out your profile uh entirely. It's very easy and fast to do it. When you put your bio, you put your picture, you put your social media links. Uh, also your campaign pitch when you're like doing something, uh writing something that is like short and easy, but like uh showing what your music is about, it can really like offer some opportunities that you wouldn't get otherwise. So it's more missed opportunity not doing it.

One thing that is super important though, like sorry, like I'm thinking of something, is running like uh selecting too many genres of music. So if on your profile you're selecting too many things, so I had like an artist telling me, Hey, I have like 15 seconds, like I have a saxophone in my track, so I put jazz. And I was like, and I was like, this is a psychedelic rock track, and there's like 15 seconds of like saxophone in the middle, which is nice, but it's not jazz. And the creators and also the creators who are looking for jazz are not looking for that track. So you're like missing, like you're like, yeah, you really like you're not going to target the right people this way. So I would really focus on selecting two or max three sub jars with like on your profile before a campaign, and then when you're doing your selection and filtering, I would only select like two or three sub jars maximum. So that way you'll get the best recommendations there. You're gonna get the people that really like your music. And it's also not about like putting yourself in um in a box or anything.

It's more about when you talk to people, what do they say your music is? It doesn't mean you need to agree with that. It's more about like what would an external person listening to music would say would think your music is more about or closest to. And a lot of music is hybrid today. But I would like even if it's hybrid, I would like keep like two or three sub jars that could be very different, and you'll find the uh intersection between those among the creators that like both. Yeah, so the feedback, of course, that you get from these curators varies, right? Some of it can be very helpful, some of it meh, maybe not so much. And I know that y'all are doing work to kind of quality control some of that stuff and make sure that they are giving the best possible feedback so that we can you know improve the whole experience. But what would you say the most common type of feedback it is that curators are giving to emerging artists, right? Like I have a guess. Well, I uh is it it's I I what I see a lot is just it sounds good, but it doesn't fit on this playlist. This is when uh yeah, this is what I'm gonna say. It's like, and more largely if we go uh not only on playlisting, but if we go back to also like all the media outlets and radio stations and people that are on Groover, but

they're also like uh YouTube channel journalists. We created a DJ category so people can submit to DJs as well. Yeah, it's it's it we've just started it, but it's working really well. Yeah, um, yeah. The idea is most of the time it's gonna be, but it's like it's natural, it's like they listen to it as like, oh, it's like it's high quality, I can see the appeal and everything, but it doesn't match what I'm looking for right now in my curation. It could be sometimes even music they like to listen to, but it's not exactly what it doesn't match. And so this is gonna be yes, the the most common piece of of feedback that um uh artists would receive when there's a rejection. It would be about that. Then I'd say like what we try to have creators do is pinpoint one specific thing, or like not a negative thing about the track itself, but more like as a creator, I'm more looking for tracks that have uh, I don't know, like um uh more breaks, or like that I have a more underground production, and this is sounding a bit too commercial for me. But having something like this is a good piece of feedback because it's like for the artists, it's like, okay, yeah, And so my track is perceived as more commercial.

I should go and check creators that are looking for that kind of music. Um, and and the the creators who are able to express that the right way we've been benevolent and everything. I've never like the artists really like getting this kind of like honest feedback on why they're not getting featured. And it's one of the things that we worked a lot on in the beginning. It was the creators were like a lot of creators are actually too nice. Um we call that case um too enthusiastic, but no. It's like they're like they they write like a super nice feedback about the track, but then they don't share it. And like the artist is like, Why what the I don't understand. It's like it's because the creators that feel really bad about criticizing, they understand what's happening on the other side, yeah, but what they're doing is even worse, which is like saying the music is amazing and not sharing it. So we try to do that. I hated that. I hated when we got those. They're like, this makes no sense. I could totally see the appeal of this.

I love the bridge in the middle, the instrumentation is great. I love the vocal tone of the artist and how it's switched up and the flows and the melodies are all very good. Not gonna work for this playlist. But it's a no for me, dog. It's a no for me. Yeah, it's like, no, and sometimes it's like it's so we we try to really really educate the creators to understand, like to put themselves in the shoes of artists and be like, what would be something valuable for you? And the two ways you can be valuable is if you have like a real like detailed piece of feedback about something. Like, you know, there's the track, and you're like, I really like the track, but I think like this break of like was far too long, so it lost me, like it lost my attention. This is a good piece of feedback because it's like it's very personal, and we it's what we say, we say to uh creators like don't try to be um objective. It's like it's more about like what you're feeling about the track, and likely what you don't like, somebody else is gonna like it. So it's not about finding objectivity because sometimes you were saying about expectations, but some artists are telling us, I expect objective feedback. It's like it doesn't exist, it's music.

It's like it's music, music tastes, it doesn't exist, and objective feedback doesn't exist. Someone can tell you on the production part, this is gonna be uh better produced than this, but on the other side, some artists that are gonna do some very lo-fi thing in their room, they're gonna have a huge success, even if the production is not perfect. So it's really about about the emotion, what we're trying to bring here. And so we're telling the creators be um subjective and try to explain why it didn't work for you. And if you have some advice on a technical point of view, always say it on um a you basis in the sense of like I think it would it could have been more interesting if you would have done that, but it's more about like this is bad, you should have done that. It's more about like, um uh if I were you, if I was working on this track, I would recommend maybe doing that if I was it. It's more about this thing of like trying to put them in a sense of like you're giving an opinion, it's gonna be subjective, but try to be meaningful, like try to have impact with that. Um and and yeah, and positively for the artist and create something positive.

What's the process of becoming a curator on Groover? You can apply. Um, we are rejecting 90 to 95% of the applications. We also have a team of ambassadors that are locally in like Brazil, Italy, Spain, uh, also some of them that are specialized on playlists and everything, and they are reaching out to some great creators that they're finding to invite them to the platform. So inbound and outbound. Exactly. And it will be 50-50. So it's interesting because we see that like from the ones we're reaching out to, we end up accepting 80% because we like pre-qualify them. Handpicked. Uh yeah, handpicked. And on the other side, it's the the opposite. Like uh when like people are inbound, we're rejecting 90 to 95% of like the applications that are coming in. But there are also some very good ones that are coming in, also because they were recommended by someone or they saw us on an event or anything. Um, but it's really important we keep that outbound part because it's really what what's bringing the variety and the how rich the community is uh in terms of the quality brands that wouldn't have signed up if they hadn't met with us and understood the purpose.

So so other than playlisting, you know, you kind of alluded to this at the beginning. Like what what else do you see artists looking for? Right? Like just generally speaking, what in your mind should an artist care about, right? Because I think, of course, getting on playlists and getting streams is like one part of the whole big equation. So, like, what are some of the other, you know, things they should be caring about? Yeah, that's a good thing. I don't I don't think they they should care about something, but they actually in reality they care about things. And I see like four uh main things that they would be caring about. And three are direct ways you can be on on on you can um three direct things you can target on Groover. And the fourth one is more like an underlying one. Um so the first one is visibility. So getting fans, getting a bigger audience, getting more listeners, getting more streams is one of the biggest reasons why artists are using Groover. But as we said, it's like it can create a lot of expectations. Yeah, and it's a good thing, and it's important, and there are many ways to grow this, but and it's a big part.

Um I think like another thing that a lot of artists on Groover are looking for is connections. So a lot of them are feeling like completely alone, producing on their own. They don't have feedback from people or uh outside their inner circle, and they want to connect with people with possibly a collaboration at key at stake, uh, with the idea of reaching out to record label to a publisher to a manager. We got more than a thousand of these relationships that were built on Groover since the beginning, uh that were that were established there. Um and so they're looking to be signed to have this kind of like connection with someone that is gonna help them uh in their career, their process and building up. So a lot of them are looking for that, for those connections that they don't know how to reach out to. They don't answer to their emails, they were like, at least they're gonna listen to my music this way, and it might build a connection. So this is the second thing. Um the third thing is some artists, not all of them, like a lot of artists don't want feedback, but a portion of the artists actually really want feedback on their music, like actual concrete feedback on what it triggers in terms of emotions or even the production, the production. So you can reach out to also sound specialists, studio engineers, you can reach out to coaches and mentors, you can filter out like the these types, and these are the big three categories of people you can reach out to.

People who can bring visibility, people you can connect with for collaboration, for um a label, signing on label or anything. Um and the third one is more like people who can who are going to give you like detailed advice on your production or your track or your demo or your strategy and everything. Um so these are the three big ones. And then the the big underlying ones, underlying one that a lot of artists are looking for, is a lot of them have the imposter syndrome and they they want to have the kind of the approval of somebody they don't know in the on the other side of the world that's gonna like them. For example, we have all the chief editors from Rolling Stone in South America on Groover in Argentina and everything. And they are featuring every week uh new tracks that they discover on Groover. they really love it. And one of the things here is that it's like when an artist gets featured on Rolling Stone Argentina for whatever reason, maybe not a lot of people are gonna read it, but for them, the fact that they for them first, they were featured on Rolling Stone Argentina, it's like, okay, I'm not doing this for nothing. There are people who are like who are uh really appreciating my music.

And at the same time, the artists can communicate on that. They can communicate that they were featured on Rolling Stone. So it's really powerful in the sense that it can bring new people to listen to music because they see this kind of like label, label check of like Rolling Stone featured your music. So this kind of like legitimacy, this quest for like um uh legitimacy and and uh and feeling that your your music uh uh makes sense and and and and that your project is recognized recognition is really important and an underlying thing that is um really uh important when artists are reaching out to people on Groover. and that's why like sometimes it's what I just want to say like artists, like you're not forced at all to try Groover, it may not work for you but maybe you'll gain such a 50 people and maybe there's one person that's gonna love your music and he's gonna become possibly the most important person for your career. Yeah I mean that goes it's like one contact. yeah that that goes with like anything really in this business man. I mean and just in life in general is like you really don't know what one interaction can do for like I mean there's there's been people that we've gotten on the podcast who like have now been instrumental in like helping us navigate the industry and like make connections for us and like who would have ever known like that that connection would have turned into something way bigger right so I do think you know but it's something I you know we used to do more of these we're trying to get back into it we do like live stream you know music feedback so our community just like yours they do love that they do love they ask for they ask for it they want the feedback yeah like they it's a huge thing and it's so interesting like psychologically because I feel like it's the same artists though that do claim that like I don't care what anyone thinks about my music or whatever right are the same people that what do you think about my music exactly it's a very it's a very interesting, like I don't know, like a weird um dichotomy between that, you know.

I mean, Dorian said emotional earlier, it's all very difficult. That's a perfect emotional that's a perfect way to say it, man. This whole industry, like when you're talking about art being the product, right? Like, and it's and it's your personal, you know, like words and like your personal, like, you know, music that you're making or whatever. I mean, it it gets real deep as far as like the personal like attachment and connection to it, you know what I mean? So it's tough for me. I I like have to walk on eggshells sometimes, I feel like with my with my artist friends, because like I'm a very like straight shooter, and sometimes that's good. I think they do need to hear some of the things that like I say or other people that are a little bit more like it's better than a yes man, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but there, but there is like a delicate way to do it, you know what I mean? Without crushing their hopes and dreams, you know what I mean? Totally. And that's what we being very attentive on, like uh that creators like they realize that that they have like what they say is gonna have some impact. And it's what I was saying sometimes, like, even an artist who's gonna get like possibly the one who wrote the the truth about groover, I suspect, and it's what's getting on his, he probably got like one very bad piece of feedback that really like made him like uh that he really didn't like it, like turned his whole experience his whole experience on something, and he had to like out his uh frustrations.

And I honestly I'd never blame artists for like being in that in that situation. I understand because it's so like tough and can be so emotional as uh sometimes to like to get this kind of situation. But I would like what I've tried to do all the time when I talk about that, and I used to do like support. I I just stopped after six years, but I was still doing the support off of Groover on the weekends and the the nights and everything. Um, I just stopped. Um, but I've I keep on like helping when there are like some difficult situations. And sometimes like the artist they were so frustrated, and it was just like swinging to it. It's like when you get something and you like it doesn't resonate with you, you don't agree, and it's about like try to like take a deep breath and forget about it and go through the positive thing or the things that resonate with you that you think you have uh that are gonna bring you something. It's gonna be so important for you. And I know it's not it's possibly not you want to hear, but like when you have something negative like this that you'd feel it's bringing you nothing but bad, like just go to the next thing and forget about it. You're never gonna grow if you focus only on the things that are like you think that really like making you suffer in ways.

Um I think it's true for a lot of things, even with uh we're like if you're like further on in the industry. I think like a lot of artists that are succeeding and maintaining like a um a class like a standard uh standard of uh of life that is like okay, they're not like uh falling down the cracks or anything. It's because they're able to like okay. This is not this is negative shit. I don't want to focus too much on. Um, and it happens, you're gonna get this on Google, and that's I would love for it not never to happen, but it's not it's not uh avoidable all the time because it's human beings answering, so it's like it's like we don't control them. Damn humans. I feel like uh I feel like Dorian's a psychologist in uh in another life. Could be a psychologist. I know, I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dorian, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. My favorite segment, which by the way, this is our first global rapid fire rampage, by the way. This is this is our first one.

Big global shit. I was gonna say, uh, we gotta figure out how to get that Reddit post lower on uh the Google search results. I found that way too easily. I feel like, you know, how do we yeah? Don't this is a sore subject, bro. He already knows. He literally loses sleep every night over over the truth about Groover. I think He takes a deep breath and then he moves on to the positive, didn't you hear him? I don't know, man. Yeah, it took some time. It took like a very deep breath. Like uh very deep. Hey, I was taking some deep breaths earlier, so I get it. my friend. For sure. This is the rapid fire rampage, Dorian. There's gonna be three short parts to it. We're gonna start with just some short answer questions. Let's get into it. Starting with, just give us your best quick elevator pitch on why artists should be using Groover. What's the 30-second just? This is why. So, Groover, we built it because we wanted to help artists get ensure that their track is listened to and that they can break this rule of the first listening for people they can target. Our goal is that they have the freedom to get in touch with the people they choose, and we guarantee them that they, we their track is gonna get listened to, they're gonna get feedback, and this way they maximize the opportunities they can get out of it.

This is why we built it. Great. Boom. It's great. Real founder shit, Henry. It would be good. Now give me the elevator pitch for the one more time podcast. Moving on to the next one for Dorian. Um we're still working on Henry's elevator pitch. It's okay. Oh, you have one? Well, yeah, but this is my interview, Henry. Anyway, uh, what is the biggest challenge Groover is facing right now, and how do you plan to solve it? I think we talked a lot about it. Um, I think it's the quality of the feedback and the quality of the shares and uh matching the expectations of artists uh the right way and anticipating what they we can really bring to them um and bring this value and more and more value for these campaigns, and like managing to have the best community of creators and for them to bring the best value to artists. It's always gonna be the big challenge. Uh and it's one of the biggest ones we we're working on right now, and um, and we always be working on. Yeah, that's a never-ending thing, I'm sure. Like, it can't, it's that's not gonna be over any time.

But it's getting better, and it's gonna change, it's gonna get better, and it's gonna, yeah. Baby steps, my friend. Yeah, Dorian, you can choose any animal to be your personal assistant. What animal do you choose and why? Wow. Oh, that's a good question. You've never thought about this. Yeah, I mean, if you have, that's weird, but I'm telling you as well. So I oh I I have an idea. I would definitely get an octopus. I think like they're multitasking, eight legs, yeah. Yeah, multitasking a lot, and uh like a very cute octopus, like uh with a big smile, you know, and uh that's doing a lot of things, doing a lot of things there and there. Hey, man. So I like I'm I'm quite organized, but I'm I'm okay with chaos in the sense that I'm working on very different things at the same time and multitasking while trying to be organized at the same time. So I think like having other hands or other, like it would be helpful. Yeah, okay, okay. You need your assistant to match that energy and multitasking, eight eight tasks at once. Dorian, uh are CDJs actually the best decks.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So that's confirmed, guaranteed. It's confirmed. Okay, yeah. And uh, there's the other new ones by Pioneer. Uh you know, they did like the kind of uh revolution, kind of Apple revolution when they removed all the buttons and they put it on a nice design, like the uh Opus Quad. So I'm gonna say uh like um uh like you know, um i i before it was always better. I don't know how to say that. Uh yeah, it's just like the the CDJs, I really like the feel of them. Like the Opus Quad, I'm a bit lost, but I'm pretty sure like in a year or two years, I'm gonna be Opus Quad is the best. We'll ask you again in one year. Yeah. I like it. CDJs are great. CDJs are great. I like it. Um Dorian, you have entered a fight to the death cage match with the founder of SubmitHub. I know Jason. You know him? I've met yeah, I've met with him for the first time this year in in uh South by in Austin. What did y'all talk about? It was really fun. Oh, A lot of things uh and and nothing at the same time. It was like we got we got um breakfast together, but it was really really fun.

Nice. Well the well the question still stands. The question is gonna be what is your weapon of choice against Jason? In a death in a match what is it? And uh to fight to the death cage match with no firearms. Yeah, yeah. No firearms. allowed. I think like uh Jason is a very like very smart person. And what is the goal? Like, what do I need to win? Like, do I need to kill him? Yes. Yeah, yeah, okay. It's that. Or you die. I mean, if you if you know if you want to live, you have to kill him. That's the whole thing. I I think I think I will I would kill him with kindness. Come on, bro. No, but uh no, no, no. the truth about that is that um no, it's what they're building is uh really cool and a source of inspiration. We're really trying to bring additional things to artists there, and we're differentiating on a lot of things, but we really like respect what they're doing with Summit Hub. We have we can coexist. Plenty of room for both.

You could play nice in the sandbox. I suppose. Uh-huh. That was such a that answer though. Let us down. The last one we asked literally said uh a razor. A razor blade. Yeah. Oh my god. Audio Mac was gonna yeah, it was against Daniel. It was it was Z from Audiomack was fighting Daniel Ek from Spotify to the death. I'm just pitting founders against each other. That's my new thing. Yeah. Um it's really fun. It's really nice. For sure, for sure. Dorian. And maybe, yeah, I know he's in South Africa, so maybe I'll probably try to like have some lions come at his place or something. Okay. See, now that should have been your first answer. Yeah, fuck the kindness thing. That was the lion. Lion attack. Lion attack is hard. A lion is my weapon. That's fire. Yeah. A hungry lion. Gotta be hungry. Yeah. Can't be satiated. Nope. Dorian, what is your best just quick tip? One off the top piece of advice for someone who wants to start a music tech company.

Oh, yeah, easy. Uh I would be like, if you have an idea, it's great. Then start by calling hundreds of artists or people you want to address. If it's if you want to address artists, talk with artists, have open questions, like six to eight open questions you're asking about their daily life and what they're struggling with. Um, and try to find a migraine problem, which is really something they're really struggling with. They would be ready to pay to solve it. And it's exactly what we did. We had a different idea. We talked with hundreds of artists, and it all came to like the visibility getting heard, the migraine of like just being listened to by their mother and their dog, and it was like, how could they go over that? Um, and it was like, okay, we've just like put the finger on something, and we talked with like PR agents, and we saw that it was a solution only for artists that were well developed and not like other ones. So we saw that there was really something that was not addressed there. So I would like to talk to artists, talk to people, and and I would say, don't talk too much to other music tech founders.

Just talk to your audience, talk to the people you want to address. I like that. Yeah. Make sure there's a real problem that you're solving for. I think that's super key. Love that. Last one of the short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Oh my god, I don't know. Um I mean in English or in French? Could be French. Yeah. Could be French. This is an open question. Oh, in French, you know, uh, maybe you've heard like putain in French. I have heard that, yeah, yeah. What does that mean though? It it means it means whore. Okay. But when we say we don't think about it, we think about putain. It's like, I don't know. Maybe it's like fuck when in English. I think it's like whore. It's like Whore. It's like whore. Yeah. It's like, ah, but like yeah, Putin is uh Putin is a good one. Piton? I like it. Pétan? Putin? Peton? Yes. Peton? Putin. Pluton.

Putin. Yes. Okay. Something like that. We learned one today. Part two is the this or that. Dorian, I'm gonna give you two choices. You just gotta pick one. Okay. Starting with drums or melodies? Melodies. Algorithmic playlist or editorial playlist. Um algorithmic. No, no, editorial. Editorial playlist. Okay, okay. Vinyl or streaming? Streaming. Morning music or night music? Night music. Synced transition or freehand? Oh, Freehand. Freehand. He's a freehander. He doesn't sync. No, it's like he doesn't sync. He doesn't touch that button. No, it's like I I respect people who are using it, but um also when it's like very complex, like tracks and rhythms and stuff like that. But it's bringing all the fun out for me. Like I prefer to play with like the beat match than doing too many effects. So if I'm just doing sync, I'm just gonna be like, what I what can I do? It's like the beat matching is part of the fun for me.

Cool, I like it. Bootstrapping or investor backed. Bootstrapped. I hope our investors are not gonna watch that video. No, I would say honestly, I would say now in the current economy, if I was to create a new company, I would say bootstrapped. I like it. I would bootstrap it. Yeah, but investors, he loves you. But investors, no, no, honestly, no, and to to give like to put away with that without the investors, we wouldn't have gone that fast, and we wouldn't have gone like that quality of a platform, we wouldn't have been able to build that team. Uh honestly, we do we have a lot of what we build is due to the amazing investors that we have. But the the um now in the current economy, it would be sounder to build bootstrapping, also because now I have a better network, better understanding of everything. Um, but also like uh yeah, the investor they trusted us and they helped us grow. So it's like okay, I would go back. It's like I chose bootstrap, but it would be like it's totally different depending on what you're building. For sure. If you do some hardware or something, It's gonna be hard to bootstrap, honestly.

For sure. Yeah, okay, only a couple more discovery or familiarity, discovery, and finally quit DJing or sell Groover for an appropriate amount. Quit DJing or sell Groover for an appropriate amount. for an appropriate amount. Appropriate amount, like market value. Market value is not the music. Uh it's hard, it's hard, man. It's meant to be. It's it's it's it's hard because I've just started DJing a year ago and I Give it up, bro. It's like a new passion everything. I can't keep up with a new passion. You're quitting, bro. I can't keep up with a new passion. Yes, you can. You're not selling for fair value. You can always bootstrap a new company. Well, I'll find a new passion. I'll become a music producer. I've started I quit DJing, but I produce music. I'm sticking with Groover, baby. Are we allowing that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, producing allowed. The last section is the word association.

I'm gonna say one word, and you just give me the first word that you think of off the top of your head. As little thought as possible. Here we go. Starting with music. Um everything. Snapchat. Yellow. USB. Um record box. Potato. Chips with cheese. Ooh. Okay. Gen Z. Um hard to understand. No, Dorian. That's you and your French accent, my friend. I'm too old now. That's why. Oh, don't don't come on here. I know I know your age. You are a very young man. I know your age with a quick with a quick Google. We look, Yeah, we figured it out. You were very young. Um The Louvre. What did you say? The Louvre.

The Louvre. Oh, um. Did he say it right? I would I would say I would say uh De La Croix. I don't know if you know. It's uh like one of the big best painting there is like Freedom Guiding the People. Oh, cool. It's from De La Croix. De La Croix. It's beautiful painting. De La Croix. podcast. Entertaining. Playlist push. Expensive. Oh. It is. I can I can attest. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. I lost the key to my wallet, so shit. See, bro, see? That's why I'm using the apps. Bro. But not your key, not your coins. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, it's like um, yeah. I don't care too much about it. It's like I don't understand the use. After losing your your keys, yeah.

That's a nice thing. That's a nice thing to say. I'm still pissed about it. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't even understand that Bitcoin shit. Like, whatever. I lost a whole one. 75k right now. Yeah, yeah. Okay, only a few more here. SpongeBob. Um, Patrick. Lil. Wayne. Groover. Um life. Let's go. Groover is Life, baby. That might be the name of the episode. As always. Please like, comment, and subscribe. Follow us on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify Podcast. Leave us a five-star review. If you don't leave us five stars, just move right along. Until next time, Henry, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Getting out of here. Peace, y'all.