Wendy Day: How to NOT Get a Record Deal

I just really don't want artists to be taken advantage of anymore. What's your favorite Tupac memory? The first one was money isn't fulfilling. Like you've got to have a purpose. You've got to have a mission. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die right here in Paris. This is fed up. 95% of the artists that I've seen lately could do this themselves They should do this themselves. In 2024, if your only goal as an artist is to sign a record deal with a major label, you are playing the game all wrong. Today's guest Wendy Day has spent over 30 years helping artists realize that not only can they do the s*** themselves, but it's probably in their best interest. Wendy is a hip hop executive mentor and consultant who's worked with some small-time artists and labels you might have heard of. Tupac, no limit, cash money, twista. We'd be here all day if I went through the whole resume. This episode is ideal for the artist that thinks they need to sign a deal to win. You don't, and she will convince you of that. But also for the artist that is actively chasing the independent route and just needs some tips and tricks, strategies from an industry legend of decades.

They are in this episode, and I am going to start it right. Even you and I obviously have differences in opinions on like how things should go, and obviously we have differences in like how we like to work. So for me, I'm just most nervous about I can be I can be a lot. You're a lot, you're a ton. I'm a lot. Are you really? I don't get that. I'm just like hyper productive. Meaning like I think that like just maybe I'm a lot. Yeah, you you probably are. Oh, fuck. I never thought about that. You probably are. And like it's not bad. I don't want to like shame myself, right? Right. Because I'm someone who likes to, oh god, we gotta do this, this, this, this, and this, right? But sometimes I do maybe, you know, like I'm not always the most patient. I'm not always the most like empathetic. I have really bad ADHD. So I'm like all over the place.

Yeah. I don't even know if that's it for me. Mine's maybe not as much. Mine's more just like I have a a tough time uh accepting that other people don't think and act and do everything like I would do it. Right. That's my heart. I mean, I'm just being honest. That's my hardest. thing. So is it hard for you to delegate? It's very hard because if they don't do it in the time or the way, or then like You gotta learn to let go. Yeah, I can't. Or have empathy. It's hard. I know, I know. And emotional intelligence. you're going to have so much going on that you're going to have to delegate. Yes. And you're going to be happy to have it done 75% of the way you would do it, rather than lose 100% of your own time. Yeah. That's a bar. That's a bar. We got Wendy Day on the podcast. Let's go. Let's go. I'm so happy to be here. This is a huge. one. First of all, thank you for inviting me. This is awesome. Oh, this is awesome. We've both been watching you for a long time, like big fans. It is our pleasure. Seriously, it's my pleasure.

Literally, when Brandman Sean said because I love him. I hear you just say that I love him too. I love Him. Everything that no labels necessary is doing, we 100% support. Go follow no labels necessary Absolutely. for real. And so basically, you know, we got to a point where we had done a lot of the people that we wanted to interview here in Atlanta, because you know, it's a little bit smaller of a community, and so we felt like we had done a lot of the you know interviews that we wanted to do. So I hit up all of our kind of like most respected guests, and obviously Sean was on the list. I love that. And I was like, yo, who would be a good person to get on the podcast? And he suggested you, and I was like, wait, you know Wendy Day? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're friends. And then I was like, and she's in Atlanta. I am. I've been here since 06. But where are you from, though? You're from New York for sure, right? born and raised in Philly. Oh, in Philly. I moved to New York. The birds. Yes. She loves the birds. I moved to New York. She loves the Phillies and the the Phillies, like the Philadelphians love their Phillies I'm So not a sports person.

Oh wow. Okay. Because their fans are annoying. That's why she moved. No, that's why she moved. Because everyone in Philadelphia who still lives there. I moved for rap. So I moved in 1987. I went to New York for a weekend, right? I had I had already graduated from college and I was working in advertising sales. I was making a lot of money. And my philosophy back then was whoever dies with the most toys wins. Right. Like that was my that was kind of everybody's philosophy back then. Yeah. You guys weren't born yet. But anyway. So I went to New York for a weekend and I heard the Mr. Magic Marley Marl radio show. I went home, quit my job on Monday. Oh shit. Rented a U-Haul, packed my shit, and I was living in New York within four days, five days. Wow. True story. Whoa. True story. I moved there for a radio show. Wow. That's insane. Remember like having that type of just intrinsic, just a feeling like that strong. And I didn't work in the music industry. I was 26, 25.

I mean, I was young, right? And I didn't have a job. I didn't really have any prospects of a job. I just quit and moved. Wow. Wow. And started working for uh Time magazine and Sports Illustrated, doing ad sales in New York, and then going out as a fan of hip hop, like going to the clubs and hanging out. And that's how you got like into the scene at all? Yes. Because I was always wondering like, yeah, how did Wendy Day end up helping, you know, cash money land a fucking 30 million dollar deal? Like, I was like, right? This Philadelphia motherfucker. Ain't that some shit? So I was six years into my career at that point when I did the cash money deal. So I started rap coalition in 92. After I lived in New York, I ended up moving to Montreal. Um I worked for a liquor company. I was the VP of marketing there. I got my MBA from McGill, which is really cool in marketing, and came back to the to New York, came back to the US. And that's when I started rap coalition.

It was 1992. And it was my way of giving back to rappers for all the happiness that their music gave to me. I love that. And of course, I heard- So beautiful, man. I have a tear. Literally. No, seriously, man. Yeah. It's real. How would you uh how would you explain coalition to someone that might not be familiar with? it's a not-for-profit organization that pulls artists out of bad deals. So it's an artist advocacy organization. We do a lot of education. So whenever you see me doing stuff like this, it's me giving back. It's part of the not for profit of what I do. I just really don't want artists to be taken advantage of anymore. Yeah. And I gotta tell you, like, when the internet came around, I thought it would get better. It's actually gotten worse because now there's misinformation. Like there's so many people out here, some of whom are friends of mine, just giving really wrong information. So I started making videos online in like 2016 because I got tired of hearing like misinformation.

Yeah. It's wild. Like we have so much information at our fingertips, but you're right. I mean, like, how do you know what's real and what's not? That's the thing. Because I mean, to your point, I'll see literally like successful people, quote unquote, or like, you know, experts in the field. And like, even just in life, you run into this shit, right? Where someone's supposed to know what they're talking about, and they just blatantly don't. Like they're just, but they're so confident. My my breaking point, that's a great sound effect. My um, my breaking point was watching somebody that I kind of respect tell the world that they can copyright their music by sending themselves a CD and just signing it's called a poor man's poor man's copyright. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, okay, first of all, okay, yes and no, like it proves that you own it, but you can't sue for damages. You can't sue to get your legal fees back, like it's not registered with copyright.gov. Right.

Yeah. And and we just found that out from a lawyer that we had on the podcast. Yep. Where it's so important. If you can prove that someone intentionally tried to steal your stuff, even if the song got one stream, yes, you can literally sue them for like 150,000 or something like per song. Exactly, right? Which is incredible. So I don't know if you guys are watching the whole thing that's going on with the Isaac Hayes estate and Donald Trump, but Donald Trump has used Isaac Hayes' music. I think it was 130 times. Yeah. Times $50,000, $150,000. Ooh. Write me a check. Not me, but suck that check. Yeah. Right. Write the estate a check. So, yo, in in your link tree, you have a link to Wendy's best interview. Can we just agree that we're gonna take that spot? You're going to Take that spot. Yeah. Fuck. I didn't even look up, I didn't even look who it was, what it was. I didn't want to know because I was like, that shit's gone after this one, bro. So let's just agree that.

I love it. We're gonna, you know, maybe bring that up at the end. We'll see how it goes. Now the pressure's on. I don't know. Have a little fucking thing. No, we can do this. Yes, we can definitely do this. We got this. We got this. Okay. So you wrote a book in 2011, you told me. Yes. With the original version, and you kind of did like updated it in 2016. Yeah. And it was called How to Get a Record Deal. Yes. And so, you know, without me reading the book, I thought you got busted out. I'm just gonna call myself out. I was like, yo, Wendy, like I was like, you know, doing a little prep before the episode. You help so many people get a record deal. It's great. Exactly. This book I have gotten everywhere. You have. I have. But the book wasn't the reason to do that, right? So, like, tell people what the book was actually meant to do. Yes. And then we'll kind of dive into maybe like how we can learn from it. So at that point in time, so this is back in 2011, right? It was a little bit different in the marketplace than it is today. Yeah. And I would go and speak, and I could tell, I could tell the difference in um quality of audience because artists that lived like in New York and wanted everything done for them. This is a long time ago, they're not quite so pampered anymore.

Their question was how do I get a record deal? But then I would speak like in the Midwest or the South. And the question would be like, how can I sell more units on my own? Like, how can I stream more? How can I sell more hard copies? How can I sell more t shirts? And I love that. Like, how can I that's what it's about? Yeah, how can I avoid a record deal? Exactly. How can I not have to do a record deal? Exactly. How can how do I not get pimped out? Because that's really what a record deal is. So I wrote a book called How to Get a Record Deal. And it's like it explains how to get a record deal, but and it talks about the different types of deals. But when you when you read the book or you listen to it, my audio book is Slick Rick, which is really cool. He boosted the Ruler. And that was a fucking rule. That was a gift. I didn't even ask him to do that. He read my book in the studio and then said, here, this is for you. That's so cool. Give me a fucking Christmas gift that's slick Rick or something. I'll buy the audiobook. Okay. There you go. There you go. Jeez. that is just a cop out there.

And then you can absolutely not get a record deal. Right. Yeah. So the the book is really when you read it, it it really comes from the vein of how to do this yourself and why you don't need a record deal. And in 2024 and 2025, which is quickly coming down the pike. So crazy. You don't need a record deal. Like all you need is the proper funding and the know-how, and the know-how is out here. Like shit, you could just read my website and get the know-how. Right. So the know-how is out here. There's a million of us teaching people how to do this. There's a ton of people that sadly got laid off recently that would be happy to find some needy artist that wants some help to help, you know, whether it's for pay or for free, you know, you get what you negotiate. But there's enough information out here you can do this yourself as long as you have talent, you just need the money, the proper funding. But like, hold on, Wendy.

Like, can every artist actually do it themselves? No. Okay. There's some artists. No, no, there's there's some people in life that don't have the hustle necessary to like really do it themselves, whatever it is that they're doing. There's some people that need to be spoon-fed, and that's not a diss. It's just there's some people that you know aren't equipped on the business side to really put out their own music. But I would say that 95% of the artists that I've seen lately could do this themselves. They should do this themselves. Wow, That's a big number. That's a huge number. Almost everybody, almost everybody could do this. Guys, you can do it. It's possible. You can do it. You heard it here first. No, that's that's crazy. Okay, so then it's not it's not rocket science. It's not brain surgery. No, I do put in out music. Yeah, I do feel like um, and you know, I listened to some of the episodes of the you know podcast that you've done in the past, the uh cheat code. I know you guys are on a hiatus.

We hope it comes back with a vengeance, Bring back cheat code. Ferrari looking at you. Yeah, but um, but no, so you know, obviously, like we're in a different era now than clearly when you like wrote the book. Yes. Right. But what principles like still hold true, would you say? I'd say the main principle, which is learn as much as you can before you jump into this industry. And not so much that you get like analysis paralysis and don't do anything, but you've really got to learn how the industry works and what it takes to put out music and then jump in, right? Then then have action. I think that just like you wouldn't jump on a basketball court and play against, you know, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James, not knowing how to play the game, not knowing the shape of that basketball, not knowing the rules, not knowing what you're capable of. You you've gotta kind of learn a little bit so that you've got a decent knowledge of how to do this and then jump in. So, what do you think are the first few things that an artist should learn about?

I think they should learn about their market. I think it's really important to know their market, who's listening to the music, who they should target when they start um marketing and promoting their music. I think they need to know their image. I think image is everything. One of the things that I've noticed, um, and and it's because you know I'm just old as fuck. I've noticed that Come on, Wendy. No, you're not. back when I I feel it today. 45 is not that old. Yeah. All right, Henry. You know, back to yellow brown on that nose. bro. It was a nice suck-up though. It was a nice suck up. When, when I first started working in in the music industry, I noticed that we would like somebody's music and then go find out more about them. And I use Nas as an example, right? So I heard Illmatic, and then I'm like, wait, who is this motherfucker? Yes. And I learned that he's got a brother that can rap as well or maybe even better than he can.

He's a freestyler that's extraordinaire. There's his dad who's a jazz musician. Yeah. You know, um, he was dating somebody at the time. I can't remember who it is now. Doesn't matter. Um, he was from Queensbridge, and there was a ton of other really talented artists from Queensbridge. So when I did that deep dive, it was because I liked the music. Today it's the exact opposite. You find out about the person first. You have to learn about the person, and you're not checking for their music if there's no connection. Yes. It's just so oversaturated out here. It's the exact opposite. So you've got to really, as an artist, you've got to have an image and a brand, and you've got to know who you are, and you've got to convey it. Like content is king right now. So it's almost like your own reality show. You've got to live out loud and show fans who you are, because if they're not drawn in by you, they will never listen to your music ever. Even if they love it.

Ever. Even if they would love it. Doesn't matter. They'll never know. They'll never know. They'll never know. They'll never click play. Ever. Yeah. Ever. They have there has to be some sort of connection. Yeah. And I think that's one of the biggest points that artists miss today, but they miss it not because they not because they don't see it, they miss it because they don't want to make content. Yes. I also it's definitely that. So I don't want to by the way. I hate making content. So I get it. Like I totally understand, but it's sort of the prerequisite of the job. Yeah. Yeah. So if y'all are struggling with content ideas, Henry, where can they go? You can go to 100viralcontentideas.com. We created a database for you to get for free. I love that. With plenty of Great ideas. Let's go. Just for artists. She she just she just alley-ooped that one. I had to do it for sure. But um, but no, so I definitely think it's partly that for sure. I also think that artists are very um, from what I've kind of perceived, they're very like self-conscious. Uh, even though some of them you know put on this like front, they're also very insecure uh and self-conscious and like overthink like what what are people going to think?

And I think that if if more artists would just embrace their true authentic uh self and to your point, like portray that, like you have to like overly commit to it, like shit. You know, Henry and I even have this conversation about our own brand, right? Because it's all branding 101. It's all branding. what do people fucking like about this whole thing that we got going here, right? We still don't know. It's this, it's the it's the realness, it's the oh, it's crystal clear to me. No, I know, but just thank you. But sometimes it's it's easier sometimes from the outside looking in. Okay. So sometimes we're like having these discussions of like, what should we, Yeah, like what should we be like really making sure that we, you know, emphasize, right? And that we kind of highlight, right? Because, you know, we're humans. I've got shit going on in my life that like maybe shouldn't be like highlighted and portrayed because maybe it's not part of the brand that we're trying to to once again like reinforce. Right. Um, we're we're all humans that are multifaceted, multi-dimensional, but there's got to be some key like pillars that you stand on. And I think that to your point, like that is so important.

Yes. Like, I love that you said like know your market. I thought you were gonna say like, know about royalties and know it. You didn't even say shit about like the confusing parts of the music industry, really. No, and figure out well, that is kind of you know, learn the learn how it works before you jump onto the onto the court to play the game, right? But you can know everything about every royalty type in the world, and if you don't know your market and how you're gonna promote yourself, it doesn't fucking matter. You're not gonna get any royalty. There is no monetization, exactly. Yeah, and I'm also really big on authenticity and values. You know, I'm I I can be a little woo-woo sometimes. What do you mean? Um I I just feel like you should know who you are as a person and what you stand for as, as a human being. And I don't, I don't, at this point, I don't necessarily mean your image, I mean your values. For example, it would be like if somebody came in here and said to you, like let's say they're the most miserable human being in the world, and they say, I'm gonna give you a thousand dollars not to mention this really fucked up shit that I just did, and then they sit down and you don't ask them like about the elephant in the room. It's like the most, it would be like Puffy doing an interview and you're not mentioning what he's going through because he paid you.

Like, that's not a value-based decision. That's a that's uh um a greed based decision. Yeah, and I just feel like in 2024, we need to be authentic and we need to be who we are, and we need to live by our values. So if for somebody to sit here and talk about something because they're trying to get something from you, that's not necessarily a good thing. Do you think that to pretend to be something I'm not is not necessarily a good thing? Yeah. Do you think that there's a lot of that that happens though? Yes, yeah. Yes, yeah, yes, absolutely. I don't love to be the like, oh, the music industry is so toxic and dark and greedy and selfish and whatever. But like it is something It can be. Yeah. It is something you gotta be weary of. Every industry can be, it's not just us. I was gonna say, like, I've you know worked in other industries as well, and so I think that we like to really dramatize it. I feel like in this space, because I think it's just makes the tabloids and it's just you know, everyone loves is obsessed with like pop culture and music, et cetera.

But to your point, it happens in other industries, absolutely, so it's something to be mindful of, but it shouldn't like stop you and like discourage you from trying to make it in music, right? Right, like so if I came up to you- It didn't discourage me. If I came up to you today and said I want to be an artist, like what would be your first response to that? Don't no honestly, I was, yeah, no, but like what would you say? Like, would there be like you know, words like immediate, like great, but or like hell yeah, here's the hell yeah, here's here's what you should do, and then I would probably give them my YouTube, my link tree, my website, because I know there's a ton of information on there that can get them started and get them moving forward, which is really important. And it's funny because most artists don't even have to come up to me and say, I want to be an artist. Like I can see it, I can read it. Yeah. Yeah. Does getting a record deal ever make sense now? Absolutely. It's okay. So when does it make sense? It's made sense for a a lot of my clients because they've gotten to a point where they're making a hundred thousand a month or a hundred and twenty thousand a month on their own, and they're at a point where they could really become like an international superstar.

And the great thing about the major labels is they can take you once you like here's starting out, here's like the mid-level artist. Once you get like above that and you have the ability to go all the way like a Rihanna or a Drake or Ed Sheeran, I think it makes excellent sense to have a machine behind you like a major label because they're gonna put up, you know, five to seven million dollars to get you there. Yeah, you know, so absolutely it makes sense. It also makes sense for an artist that has no hustle of their own, like somebody that wants ever somebody to do everything for them. You know, they don't they just want to show up and perform. And they're and they're happy making less. And they're happy making 10% of the income. Absolutely. The problem is that with most artists like that, after about three years, and three years seems to be the magic number. I don't know why, but after about three years, they're like, wait a minute, how come I'm not making more money? Well, because she chose not to, you know, and that seems to be the point where they get frustrated.

Like, okay, the guy that I'm signed to lives in a mansion and drives a Rolls-Royce, and I'm having trouble buying my mom a Ford Taurus. There's a problem here. Well, yeah, there is a problem here, but you chose that problem. Like you chose to be in a situation where you just wanted to smoke weed and play video games and get head all day. Sounds like the life, Wendy. Yeah. Yo, so then make 10% of the money and don't complain. Who's like the biggest independent artist now? Right. And I mean, and I mean truly independent. Because I think we throw it around this. Okay, Cause I think we throw around this, I think we throw, we throw around this term independent. Ed Sheeran is independent now. Is he? Russ is independent. Okay. Yeah. So can can we address that? Let's talk about that independence. Yeah, well, like because it's not confusing at all. For for me anyway, it's not confusing. No, but I think people throw the term around when these artists are in fact upstreamed to majors and signed. Correct.

Right? Like, I mean, I don't know. That's not independent. Yeah. But if I'm signed to ADA, which is owned by Warner Brothers, I'm independent. If I'm funding something myself, I'm independent. Even if I'm using a major distributor, I should still be considered independent because Warner is not funding my marketing or my promotion, right? So it's just about in your mind, it's just about the funding. It is. Yeah. For me, I it's it's it's that's a no-brainer. Does that also translate to ownership? Yes. So it does they also then are not Owning. Owning. owning your masters or your exactly. Okay, so it's that. Okay. Yes. Okay. Because yeah, that's where I think it gets a little bit. Yes. Because if they're funding and they have ownership, they get to call the shots. So if you want to put out an album of meditation music for prisoners, they can say no. You're a pop artist.

You can't do that. Yeah. But if it's your own company and you have ownership and you control the funding, it might be a bad business decision. I don't know. Maybe it's a great business decision. But you should be allowed to do whatever you're driven to do creatively if it's your own company. If somebody else is funding it, no, you got to take their opinion into consideration because they're investing. So what's going on with the labels right now? What what do you see as like the future state of like the record labels? Because we just saw Atlantic lay off a lot of people last month. Yeah. Yes. They seem to have laid off a large amount of staff that either wasn't necessary, they were in departments that weren't necessary, or they've been in the music industry as long as I have. And I knew this would was gonna happen at some point because the status quo in the music industry has gotten older. So there were a lot of people that were between the ages of like 35 and 60 working at labels.

And when I came into the music industry, I was 30 years old and I was old. Wow. Everybody, everybody else that was in hip hop was like 25, 24, 21, 18. So everybody was young. I was kind of the the, you know, the old person out. And I noticed that in the past few years, like my generation is still running shit. And the younger generation isn't. And I find that odd because when we came in, we were all really young and we were taking this shit over, like we were kicking in the door, right? And I wondered when this generation was gonna get their shot, their turn. And I blame my generation a lot for the rift between there's the young generation, the older generation, and for some reason, other than me, nobody seems to reach out. I shouldn't say other than me, because there's probably more people than just me. But I feel like it's a rift, and I feel like my generation just tried to pimp the younger generation and make money off of them instead of like helping them grow and helping them become executives the way we became executives.

Yeah, I've talked to you know, younger executives in the music industry, and they feel that too. Yeah, they feel like I feel it too for them. They feel like the OGs on the executive side are very like standoffish and or like gatekeeping, not giving them the opportunities. And I don't understand that because the the fan base, like the average fan base that's spending the bulk of the money in music is 13 to 26. Yeah. So how can somebody that's 50 or 60 years old tell you what what somebody who's 13 to 26 wants? I'd rather, like my staff is all young. I was gonna ask, how do you yeah, how do you stay in tune? Everybody around me is young. Yeah, everybody around me is young. And you know, it's funny because it makes me feel even older. Like I'll be doing stuff on my phone, and they'll take my phone and be like there. And it's like I'm like, oh God, I 'm trying to get my grandmother. Oh my god, it's like teaching my grandmother email. You know what I mean? It's embarrassing.

But I'm really thankful because that's who's running the world, that's who should be running the world. Like if the market is their age, why are they not making decisions? And why are we not helping them on the business side to become become better business people? Like when when we came into this, we had to bang our heads, right? There were older people, but hip hop was so new that they couldn't teach us because they were all like either R and B or rock or jazz or classic. Hip hop was new. So we learned by banging our heads. I don't think it's fair that this generation has to learn by banging their heads. Like we could make it so much easier for them. And it's the right thing to do. Yeah. But if it's the right thing to do. But if uh just to play devil's advocate, please go ahead. If I am the older executive, am I not worried that I'm going to train these young bucks to come in and take my job? They're supposed to.

They're supposed to take your job. You're old as fuck. I need to help them take my job. Yes. Then what am I doing? Yes. Retiring, bro. You're you're you're a multimillionaire from working Drake or whoever the fuck you work. I like working. I want to keep working. Then keep working. Become indispensable. Train my replacement. Train your replacements, build a relationship with them where they don't push you out to pasture. That's important. Or start your own company and do whatever's needed, like deliver a service that's necessary. Don't become obsolete sitting at a label making decisions to sign the next TikTok fucking viral artist that can't rap and you're never gonna make money. You're making bad decisions, not you personally, but you're making bad decisions. You're fired. You keep talking at him like that. I was like, yeah, Wendy, tell tell this bitch ass. Get out, you're fired. Yeah. I knew this day would come. Yeah. See you guys later. Oh, our headphones. Oh shit.

Oh shit. Yeah. No, I mean, I I I think But it's just evolution. Well, you know? And because the risk that these evolution and the risk that these older executives run is that like if they don't like, you know, extend the olive branch or like, you know, invest in their younger talent, then as soon as that that younger talent does get their shot, they are putting them out to pasture. Yes. Because to her point there's no relationship. If there's no relationship, you're fucked, man. And you didn't help them. You didn't help me for shit. Yeah, you didn't help them. I I just, you know, when I got in at 30, I thought to myself, I got about five years. Oh shit. You know what I mean? Because it's a young industry. Yeah, yeah. So when people started in the music business, it's not like they didn't know. I knew everybody knew. I got an extra 30 years out of this bitch. I'm so fucking thankful. Like I'm hugely grateful for that. I've lasted way longer than I ever thought I would, but I've also stayed relevant. I've also shared information with people.

I've helped the next generation come up because I have a skill set that's valuable to them. There's things that they don't know about business, just like there's things that I don't know about this generation and how they talk to each other or how they choose talent, or you know, like there's stuff that they can really teach and they have. Yeah. So you just posted a clip about um artists need more than God given talent. Way more than talent. Yeah, to succeed. So other than being talented, because I do think that you know, you mentioned the like TikTok artists that can't rap, like they're not gonna last. So I do think that if you're going to last, you do need quote unquote talent. And that's obviously subjective, right? It doesn't have to be for everyone, it needs to be just for some group of people that thinks you're talented. And then you've got to find that group of people and market to them. Exactly. But other than God-given talent or just you know, talent that you've worked hard to get. What else do you do you think artists need to succeed in in today's music business? I think they need um to be able to create content.

I think content is king right now. So they've gotta they've gotta be able to um shoot videos. They've gotta be able to, and and by videos I mean content, not music videos, right? Um they've got to be able to build a connection with people. I think community is really important. So they have to build a community of their fan base, which means they have to be able to engage with people. And there are some artists that aren't great at that. There's some that are absolutely wonderful, but there's some that could really use some help. There's a lot because to me, like you there's some artists out there that hear like I need to make content, and they just think, oh, I need to go out with my camera guy and his really nice camera and set up an insane looking shot and then rap my songs. No, but it's like so much more. Can you turn your phone on yourself and talk to the people? Like that is almost more important and way easier than the super highly produced stuff.

I don't think the highly produced stuff is going anywhere. I think that's important. Get creative with that, have fun with that. But it's there's a um there's a guy who um his name is Neiman Nasari. He he manages Hit Boy, and he worked in Universal's digital department in the TikTok department, and he shared something with me this week that was so fucking informative. He said, have your artists shoot um their TikTok and their Instagram videos on their iPhone because the algorithm can tell. And I'm like, the algorithm can tell that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. He's like, Wendy, the algorithm can tell. He's like, I don't know how. I don't know if it's the sound, I don't know what it is, but it can tell. And I'm like, okay, tell me more. And he said, Well, it they want you on the platform as long as possible. And if you're using a film crew and you're using a camera, the chances are good that you're not filming 20 hours a day. But if you're on your iPhone, there's a really good chance that you're gonna be able to pull it out multiple times a day in film. So it's gonna give more love to an iPhone than it is to like a red cam.

And I'm like, that's brilliant. I've heard that too. And it's it's also like editing the post within the editor. Get in the Instagram editor, the TikTok editor. Which is CapCut, spend time in there, actually make like making your post. So I've started kind of like doing that. I'll like add the just the title to instead of adding my title text and final cut on my computer, I'll at least like go in the editor there and take a little time in there. Because I do think there's some truth to that. There is truth to that. They want people on the app, and I think that includes the person making the post. Agreed. Right? They want you to. So I use CapCut for the captions on everything I shoot now. So even if I'm not shooting it, even if I'm not shooting it, you know, for TikTok, I'm editing it in CapCut and putting all of the, you know, just just so that it's touching it, you know? Yeah. It's just so that I'm gonna get some consideration. That's interesting. So the most common argument that I think we hear is that I didn't sign up to be a content creator. I signed up I hear that all the time.

I signed up to be an artist. I'm sorry, that's not what it is anymore. Yeah. You can't go back in time. There's no time machine to the 90s where you just had to have talent. It's it's like saying, okay, I I wanna, I wanna drive a race car, but I don't want to learn how to shift gears. I'm sorry, it's part of it. It's it's what you signed up for. If you're gonna be an artist today, you have to do that. Or you can be an unsuccessful artist. That's fine too. If that's what you want, bars. Bars. Yeah. Yeah, I just it's just part of it. And and sometimes like I feel like our community gets mad at us, and I'm like, yo, I didn't make these fucking rules. No. Like I enjoy, like I grew up in a time before social media even. So like I can totally empathize with like, you know, just loving the music because my friend bought the CD and then he told me it was great, and we listened to it together around the fucking CD player, and that was that. But like, that's just not that's not today.

It's not what's happening. It's not What's happening? Yeah, music is sort of like background. It's you know, we used to read the liner notes. And I think you're old enough to remember liner notes. Yeah, this generation doesn't know what liner notes are. When I say that, their faces go blank. Like, read the what? Is that a website? Yeah, no, it's not. Do you think that this content creation, like era of, you know, like the social media era of music, do you think that the quality of music is suffering? Because that's a lot of people's take. Well, it's a lot of people's take in our age group, you know, like yours and mine. We're different generations, so I don't want to lump us into one generation, but we're it's sort of like selective history. We're looking at today through our historical eyes, and it's not fair, you know, because so many things change. Yeah, it's not objectively worse. It's subjective the barrier of entry to create music. Do I think it's worse?

Yes, but does a 13-year old kid think it's worse? No, they love it. Yeah. You know, they're super happy to find music on TikTok. I'm appalled by it. You know what I mean? But I can't tell somebody that your reality is wrong because it's not. I'm looking at it through the eyes of somebody that watched somebody come up and struggle selling CDs out of the back of a trunk of a car and DJs carrying vinyl in milk crates into a club, you know, at two o'clock in the morning in and out. So it's just not, it's not fair to look at it through today's eyes. Like I sort of feel like my grandmother a little bit, you know, like she would sit in the living room and tell me, I had to walk to school. I remember paying five cents for a loaf of bread.

And I'd look at her like, who the fuck cares? You know what I mean? Like it's not five cent bread time. It's there are buses to take me to school. Yeah. I don't feel badly about that. Well, everything evolves, and we can't get angry because of evolution is passing us by. It's not meant for us. Oh. I'm not 13 to 26. I'm I am not the market for music anymore. I hate to interrupt this episode, but guys, I got one thing on the mind right now, and it's data. I can't stop thinking about it. All the artists in 2024 are winning because of data. They know who their fans are. They have access to their fans. Do you? Spotify's not telling you who your fans are. Apple Music ain't telling you who your fans are. But our friends over at DistroKid created a feature called hyperfollow. Every single release, you can set up a pre-save campaign with a HyperFollow and get access to every single fan's email address. Now you can let them know when you have a show coming up, when you're dropping exclusive merch, when you're going live. And without the data, you're just bound by the algorithms of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. No more relying on those platforms.

We're going straight to our fans. DistroKid is the best DIY distributor. You can upload unlimited music for a ridiculously low rate. And you're gonna have access to features like hyperfollow. OMTdistro.com. you're gonna get 30% off when you sign up for DistroKid, and you can start collecting your fans' data today. Henry, let's get back into it. So, but I mean, who like who is the most recent artist whose music we think will stand the test of time, though? Like, what's y'all's opinion on that? Interesting. I don't know that I can answer that? Interesting. No guesses, you don't got to guess. you know what I mean? Like, because I think an easy one might be like a Kendrick Lamar. I think that's who like a lot of people would vote. You consider him new? He's 10 years in. I feel like he's the most recent. He stood the test. Oh, oh, oh, the most recent. Anybody, okay. I'd say future. Okay, future. Future just dropped an album this week. Yeah. It's fucking fire. Yeah. And so you think that, because all right, obviously you have, you know, strong ties to Tupac back in the day, right? Yeah.

I still listen to Tupac, as does a lot of you know, humankind, right? Yes. So, and that's what 30 plus years now. Yeah. Since since uh Tupac, right? Yeah. Do we think future 30 years down the road? Yes. I do. Really? I do. Okay. Yeah. And why? I think Kendrick 30 years. Okay. And J. Cole 30 years. And what what about this? What about their music do we think will stand? You know what I mean? Like I think it touches people. Yeah. I think it connects. And I think that's really whenever music permeates your brain and your body and really touches you, or a song really helps you, or a vibe, you know, somebody that leads a sound, like what Wu Tang Clan did, or what Dr. Dre did with his sound. Like they led an entire generation sound. Um T Pain, you know, led a sound.

I think there's certain artists that just lead a sound, and I think future led a sound. 100%. He definitely did. 100%. Wow. I did not expect her to say future though. Hell yeah. So I'm so happy. I'm gonna, I'm gonna really blow your mind. Post Malone. I think post Malone has defined a generation, and he's not somebody that I necessarily listen to. I've been listening to him lately just because I've been trying to understand like what's working. Yes, like that case study, what the fuck's happening? Right. What's happening? with this fucking. it's a science experiment. Yeah, what is this dude doing? Like, how is he doing this? But I realized that okay, he can make a country album just like Beyonce did. You know, he can cross over into film, like he really is standing the test of time. He really is a superstar. Yeah, you know? Um, Drake is Kanye is, you know, the guys that are really selling out, and and I'm not a Drake fan, I'm not a Kanye fan, but I went to see Kanye in Paris. I was in Paris in February, and I went to the listening party for the you know, the most recent album.

And I'm in this fucking um stadium with 30,000 of my closest friends, and I'm just looking around and I'm seeing their reaction, and again, I am not a Kanye fan, but as I'm there, I'm watching them. The album was dropped maybe two weeks, 10 days prior. They knew every fucking word to every fucking song. And the floor was was bouncing. And I'm like, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die right here in Paris. This is fucked up. And I was with one of my friends, my friend Lucky, he works for 50 Cent. And he's been in the music industry, you know, as long as I have. And he and I just kept looking at each other. I'm like, I get it. He's like, I get it. I get it. Oh, I get it too. I get it. I really get it. I get it. These fans were so in love. And it was a brand new album. And you know, um, Ty Dollar Sign was there, North was on stage.

It was a thing, it was a whole fucking vibe. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I may not be a Kanye fan, but I really get it. I really get it. Yeah, something we talked about recently on an episode was about what you kind of said as far as like the feeling side of it and like just the vibe and like whatever. Like you you don't need to know, like, I mean, shout out to those people that do did know like every single lyric and stuff, right? But it's also just like about that feeling and about how like in a week, what it yeah, yeah, exactly. But that that's it's something that's a good point about like the timeless shit, and something that I think we try and like challenge our community with is like if we just like listen to a song, we're like, yo, that was cool, you know what I mean? That shit's gonna be forgotten about in like a week, um whatever right. It does it's not good enough to just be like a good song, or like cool. If we don't feel some shit, even if it makes us feel weird or makes us feel like sad or scared or happy or turnt up, like whatever, just like the vibe and the feeling, like this shit is gonna die as quick as we even heard it. So I don't know.

I think it's so hard to like tell people to like strive for that, but like you gotta try like that's like the mark, you know what I mean? Like that's something. maybe just try and keep it in mind like as you go to create the song, like what is it that I want people to feel? Yeah, that was what we that's really important. Yeah, so many artists don't do that, especially in in um in our generation. I feel like we kind of treated this in the 2000s, we treated this like the new dope game. Like, okay, do you do you do you want to be a dope boy? No, I want to be a rapper. Why? Because I can make millions. Okay, but and do what? Yeah, you know, there has to be more than just making money. And this comes from somebody that came into my 20s saying, whoever has the most toys when they die wins. So I get that, but I learned very quickly that money isn't fulfilling. Like, you've gotta have a purpose, you've got to have a mission. There's gotta be a bigger reason why you're on this earth, you know. And I think that some people really get it early.

Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole. You know, there's some artists that just really deliver heartfelt Tupac, you know, develop heartfelt music and deliver it, and a large portion of the population embraces it, and that's what mainstream is. What's your favorite Tupac memory? Like just one that you just catch yourself going back to. We don't have a lot of people we can ask this. I know, right? Yeah, there's two, and I'm gonna give you the ones that popped into my head when you asked me that. Yeah, because that means there's a reason for it. Yeah. Um, the first one was visiting him in prison. I had to leave New York. I lived in Manhattan, I lived in Brooklyn, excuse me, and I rented a car at like 11 o'clock at night. It was an eight-hour drive to the prison. He was all the way in upstate New York, right by the border of Montreal. I talked to Fat Man Scoop almost the whole way. Rest in peace, right? Yes. And I really thought about this when he passed away because it was like, oh my God, that was that was like we were on the phone for like three and a half or four hours. Like he really helped me make that drive.

Like it was like he was there in the car with me. He was just on the phone with me while he was on air. He was on the phone with me the whole time. Not the whole time, but until I got out of range. But I I remember sitting there visiting him, and the guards put us right, the guards were like, there was like a little watchtower there, and they sat him and I right there so they could hear the whole conversation. And I knew they were listening because Pac was very funny. I have a decent sense of humor. We were making jokes and they were laughing. So it was like, okay, we're entertaining them. And they knew who he was. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was hard not to. It was fucking Tupac, right? It would be the equivalent of maybe not quite as big as Drake, but somebody of that stature. Yeah, that level going to prison. Like Puff. Right. It would be the equivalent of like maybe that. You know. So visiting him in prison is a very um vibrant memory. And then the second memory.

But so what were you there to do? Like just to show, yeah, show support. Yeah. We were writing back and forth. We were pen pals. Okay. At that point in time. Yeah. I was sending him books. I send, I send almost all of the music community, except for Puff, that goes to prison. I send them books. Okay. Just so that the that's part of the it's part of what I do. The uh coalition, side of things. it's part of Wendy Day. It's Wendy Day. Yeah. I really care about people when the rest of society forgets about them. I don't. Yeah. Because it's hard. It's really hard to be famous and incarcerated. And we have a lot of guys in my generation that went to jail. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's fucked up, but it's it's it's what it is. Yeah. You know, look at Thug right now, what he's going through. I've I've sent him a shit ton of books. So What's been his favorite book. I don't know. I haven't spoken to him. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's not somebody that I'm friends with. Okay. So He's just, he's just hopefully he's reading it. Yeah.

I'll bet he is. He's pretty smart. He's yeah, 100%. And it's not like he has anything else to do. Right. Just saying facts. But um, memory number two. My memory number two is um I was building his label for him when he was killed. It was called Euphanasia. And one of the great things, I had a business plan and I was just starting to shop it to labels. And one of the great things about him is he wanted more than just a record label. He wanted to have community centers in the hoods, and he wanted to have inside of the label, he wanted uh child care so that single moms could come to work and leave their kids in the daycare and not have to worry about them. And that was so foresightful for like a guy in the 90s to even think of that. Like it was his idea, not mine. Progressive as shit, right? Right? And it sounds like something like that I would think of, right?

It wasn't him. Yeah, it was him. And I'm like, word? Like, seriously? You want that? That's fucking awesome. It's like, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't care what it costs. It's like, okay. And he's like, I want, you know, community centers. And I'm like, okay, that's really cool. You know, let's let's help kids record and keep them off the street and give them a place to come so that we have more people coming into the arts, you know, more talent, more passion, more energy, more everything, you know. And that's probably the two memories that that stand out the most. You know, he was dividing um people with the East Coast, West Coast beef that was occurring, but right before he passed, he was bringing everybody back together. I don't know if you knew that, but he was creating an album called One Nation, and it was gonna be a double album, and it had East Coast and West Coast rappers on it. He had already recorded uh Buckshot from Black Moon.

Oh wow. Um, I can't remember who else had recorded at that point because so much time has passed now, but he had already started recording that, and that was gonna be the last project he delivered to Death Row because he owed them three albums, so that was gonna be the the third album that he was delivering, and then um by that point in time, Euphanasia would have had a deal, and I would have helped him run his company. So I I don't want to like rehash a ton of the past, but I do want to just like ask this one question. Uh so obviously 75,000 was offered for juvenile Correct. to get a deal. Yes, right, penalty records. And and so y'all, Yep. and so y'all passed yes on that. Yes, and then nine months. That was low even for back then, Sure. like even back then, that was like Okay. So we got a shit deal, 75k for juvenile. Nine months pass, and then we strike a deal for 30 million dollars. Correct. What happened? You mean between what happened, right?

Because like we put out music and sold units, yeah, and so like, but that's very high. Like where were there strategies or like tactics, the whole business plan. Yeah, yeah. So just what were some of the like high-level things that you implemented when to help them? You know what I mean? Like when get to that next level. When I met them in August of 97, they had put out 31 albums over a six-year period. It was CDs back then. Yeah. Over a six year period. This is all of cash money. All cash money, yes. And they sold between 5,000 and 25,000 units for each that they put out. BG did the best. Chopper City in the Ghetto, I think did 25,000 at that point. And they were really focused on just Louisiana and Texas. They had a very small distributor called Gonzalez, and they weren't trying to be national. And at that point, I had helped Do or Die put out music, Po Pimp and whatever their first album was. I can't remember now, too much time has passed.

And Twista with Emotions and Adrenaline Rush, which was his first album. And I had a lot of relationships in the Midwest and the South, right? So when I started working with Cash Money two years after that, I had all the relationships. So instead of putting out music and just working it in two states, you know, we went all the way up to, to Detroit. We went all the way over to the Atlantic Ocean. We went, you know, right down the Mississippi. So the entire right hand side of the US. So when we put out the first release, and I can't remember what it what it was now, it's been too long. But when we put out that first release, they did 75,000 first week. Wow. And they remember they had done five to 25 over the span. But you know, they were dropping music every six weeks, which was smart, but they weren't working everything longer. Like they would drop and then go to the next one, then drop, then go to the next one, then drop.

Instead of dropping and work keep working that one, dropping another one, keep working both of them, drop a third one, work all three. Instead of doing that, they were they were not maximizing the uh the output that they had. The output that they had exactly. And and I was, because to me it was a no-brainer. They had moved to Southwest Wholesale as their distributor at the time. I was not a Southwest wholesale fan because they weren't paying people properly. And I knew that from working with Twista because they didn't pay Twista properly. And I was very nervous, but we got the numbers up. And then the lawyers, the um, I did this deal with Peter Thea and I, it was the two of us doing the deal. And at the time he represented um 36 Mafia. So he was able to hook them up to open for 36 Mafia. So in addition to marketing and promoting properly in a large area, they were also able to tour. So we were working them like a real record label.

Yeah. And once we're gonna be able to do that. Yes. So I'm curious how maybe this lesson can translate for some of our independent artists watching. Do you think like is there a time span they could be working their projects before like giving up on them? Or well, it takes me a year and a half to two years to break an artist today. So, and and I've got the relationships, the know-how, and my clients all have budgets because that's what I look for with with artists that I'm working with. So as long as they've got the know-how, the relationships, and the money, it's gonna take them a year and a half or two years. And sometimes artists give up too too soon. They'll work nine months and be like, oh, fuck this. I'm not making any money. I must not be good. No, it's that you quit too soon. You know, it it really does take a lot of time. It can take, it took us three and a half or four years to break Trouble when when I was working him, you know. So it just some artists take longer than others.

There's no, there's no crystal ball where you can foresee how long it's gonna take, but I've never been able to do it faster than a year. Ever. How much money does it take to break as an artist? For me, it takes 150,000 in marketing and promotion. That doesn't include recording, and that doesn't include what I would charge to do that, but that includes all of the digital ads, all the content that you have to shoot. It includes influencer marketing, publicity, a promotional tour, um, all the things that you need to do to get money to come back into the company. And the thing is, the reason that we were able to be so successful with cash money is we did everything at the right time. And sometimes what artists do is they'll shoot content and then um start working their social media, and their social media numbers will go up and then they'll kind of stop. And then they'll either hit a plateau or they'll start to decline.

They say, Oh shit, we better do something. So then they shoot a video and then they focus on the video and the numbers go up a little bit, and then they stop working the video and it just kind of levels out or it starts to decline. Oh shit, we need we need uh playlists, playlists, we got to get playlists. So then they do playlist promotion and it'll start to bubble a little bit more they're not doing anything wrong they're doing all the stuff that needs to be done it just needs to all be done at the same time so your playlists need to be hitting at the same time that your digital promotions are hitting which need to be hit which need to hit at the same time that you're moving around the you know the the five states that that are your target market. You've got to be doing everything at the same time. And that's where the budget comes in. And that's where the budget comes in that that I mean you just said everything that costs money. Yeah like everything trust me and like I think you're a big I mean you've said content is king a bunch and I think you would agree that content can be very low cost. You can produce a lot of content that can resonate with an audience for damn near free.

But you've got to have digital ads to back it up. But there's a lot of things. We run TikTok ads we run Instagram ads we run meta ads we run YouTube ads we run, you know and I mean to your point like it's not cheap. There's there's you know media in different states there's obviously like venues that you can be playing in different states. There's featured artists that you can collaborate in different states like just moving around from state to state it's gonna take gas food hotels it's not cheap. And that's not even recording. We haven't even made the music yet we haven't even talked about making the music. don't worry about that Henry don't worry about that part. Don't worry about damn it's it's not I I I don't I don't know where the rumor started that this is a free industry because it's never been yeah you know I I just I'm not sure why people come into music and say it takes money. But do you think that they can get to a certain point for free? Or like for closer to you know what I mean? Like very cost effectively.

Well, there's 130,000 songs being released every day. Yeah. How how are they gonna stand out if they don't have a budget? How do they get a budget? Investors, they could have jobs, they could sign to a record label. Yeah. I just think it's easier to find an investor than it is to find a record deal. But if you're but it okay, so what would your pitch be to an investor as an artist? Well, I would put a whole business plan together if I were an artist. I wouldn't just I wouldn't just you know pitch somebody like off the cuff. Yo, I'm dope. I got this idea for mixtape, trust me. Give me 250. Yeah, I'm worth it. How am I gonna get it back? Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I got you. Yeah, so I th I think that you've got to put a plan together. You've got to put the who, why, where, what, when, and how, and explain exactly what you're gonna do and when you're gonna do it and how you're gonna do it, and put together a marketing plan, price everything out, talk about what it's gonna cost you each month to do everything that you want to do. How are you gonna release the music?

The great thing about a business plan is not only does it show your investor what you're gonna do, but it forces you to really plan. See and think it out. And most people don't think it out. Do you know Udo Gray Jr.? Yes, love him. Love him to death. Literally fucking love him to death. Yes. Love him. Go check out the interview with him and Manny Wells that we dropped however long ago. It'll be up here, Henry. Put the gap It'll be right there. Um, but like everything you're saying, I can just feel our artist community being like, oh fuck no. I'm not doing a business plan. Like, yes, you are. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. Because, like, dude. Yes, you are. Like, to your point. I'm gonna start teaching classes online on how to put a business plan together so that you can come and watch that and we'll do it together. Can we can we do it? Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm dead serious about this. We're doing this right here. Yeah, come on. Yes.

Lock it in. Because because I I love what you said about like, of course, if you get the investor bag, fuck yeah, that's like the ultimate win. But even if you don't, and it's just for like your own accountability, at least you're gonna know what's a good way to do it. Like you've got something to follow. And and you're gonna tweak it as you go. You know, I just put together a business plan for um an incubator that I'm building. Yeah, because I'm in the process of getting it funded right now, literally right now. Yep. And it forced me to think about so many different things that I wouldn't normally think about. Like, well, how many artists per year are gonna be in the incubator? How are we gonna split the money? Yeah, you gotta make sure it works on paper first, and then if it works on paper, it'll work in real life. But I'm also knowing that as I build this and go forward, I may have to tweak things as I go along because the things I didn't know when I wrote the plan, and that's okay. Yeah, at least I have the bones of it on paper, and I see okay, I can do this for X amount of dollars, and it's gonna take us three years to break even or two years to break even. But at least I know that.

And at least I can go to somebody and say, hey, if you invest in this, this is what you're gonna get in return. And that's what a business plan is for. Yes. And by the way, we don't use business plans anymore. We take that business plan when it's finished and we make a deck. Because when you're actually shopping for money, you're shopping a deck, not the actual plan. The the people that are super, super, super interested that want to give you the money, they're gonna want to see your plan. Yeah. But most people, like when you pitch them, you pitch them with a deck. Yeah. Yep. See, like these, yeah. I think it should be, and you know, you do and I already talked about this, you know, when we were here about like a collaboration type of thing. I think we should do this with 24-7 artists. We should do it with Wendy Day's uh upcoming incubator, maybe if it's like gonna be long. It's called Artist Centric. Okay, Artist Centric. There you go. And then we're doing the one more time platform. There it is. All right, fuck you. Yeah, Henry. We've entered a final segment of the podcast. I couldn't be more excited. This has been to get into this one. Incredible so far.

We're gonna do a business plan webinar session content series. So important something workshop. I don't know what we're gonna do. I'm gonna be with you do in um in mid-October. We're gonna be teaching a course up at Berkeley in Boston, which is pretty exciting. Nice. Yeah, okay. Hell yeah. Yeah. Well, this final segment is called the Rapid Fire Rampage. There's gonna be three sections. We're gonna start it off very simple with some little short answer questions. Let's get into it. Starting with Wendy Day, invent an ice cream flavor. Ooh. Sambuca strawberry. Ooh. Got the alliteration and everything going on. She's thought about this one. I actually have. I've tried to make it. Maybe rosemary coffee. That would be good too. Interesting. I do like rosemary. I'm getting ice cream on the way home. Right? Me too. Is there a spot nearby? Keep going.

Wendy, give us your best. Let's say three quick tips for an artist trying to grow a fan base. What's three things they could start doing right now? Um, build a community would be one. Two would be engage with everybody. And three would be find an artist that has a similar sound and start talking to their fans that are engaging with them on their social media. All community-based. Like all it's all about the fans. It's All about the fans. Dude. The the whole idea of just like, I don't want to say steal, but kind of like stealing. Poaching other people's fans. Just be slick about it. It's shit that I yeah, just a slick. It's shit that I wanted that I've been wanting us to do, and we just like, granted, you know, haven't found the time to commit. If you're not poaching my fans, you're idiots. I no, trust me. Poaching brand man Sean. Trust me. You do. Wendy, we're coming for all your fans. We're coming for all your fans. Come get them. I love it.

There's enough to go around, all right? There are. The goal is to educate people. It's not me educating people. I want you to have my fans. I want I want my people to come see what you guys have to offer. Yeah. Because they can get something from all of us. Yeah. Agreed. As they should. As they should. Indeed. Yes. Wendy, you have to choose a song that plays every time you enter a room. What song are we going with? Ooh, breathe. Fabulous. Yes. It's gotta be something like not like overbearing, I feel like, or it'll get old pretty quick. Two two two to the three. Breathe. Yes. That's a pretty epic one. Yep. Let's go to uh Ben has just started his rap career. Love this. He has no music released. He has none. no social media. Okay. No real idea what he's doing, no business music industry training. Nothing. Sounds real. And he only has seven complete songs. Got it. But you know he's got it.

He's that that gut feeling, you're feeling it. Okay. You make the horrible decision to start managing him, try and get him a record deal, maybe, or just build up his own business either way. High level, what is the first month of work with Ben look like? Um, building his social media, registering him at ASCAP BMI, Sound Exchange, MLC. Um, making sure he's educated about how the music business works. We're gonna test this the seven songs. Um, I don't test seven at a time, so we're gonna test them four and then three. What is the test entail? Um, it entails making a minute and a half video with his iPhone. It's sort of the same video for each song, and it's him right, you're a rapper or a singer. I'm a rapper. I'm a rapper. It's you rapping the chorus, the verse, and a chorus of each song. Um, the most boring video ever, so we're probably gonna shoot it in a studio, and then we're gonna run a hundred dollars for two weeks on each song at the same time, and we're gonna see how long people stayed on each song.

So we're gonna look at who stayed 50% of the time, 75% of the time, and 95% of the time. And that's gonna tell me which of those seven songs. We're gonna run it for two weeks. I'm gonna do four songs first and then three, um, with a week in between. And it's gonna tell me the order in which I'm gonna release those seven songs. Do you go best? Best to worst. To worst? Absolutely. Yes, I do. Interesting. Yes, I do. And then I'm gonna go find the money before we start dropping while you're shooting content. Yeah, because we're gonna have a month's worth of content or two months' worth of content because you're new. I want to make sure we have a lot of stuff in the can and we're ready to go. Um, we're gonna figure out who your audience is by people that sound like you. We're gonna go to the chart metric um stats on people that are similar to you at a similar stage, similar sound, to figure out your market. Um, testing is gonna help us a lot too, because we're gonna look at the stats on the back end of that. I'm gonna you don't have any social media, so I can't go into your SoundCloud or your Instagram yet and see who your fans are, but I'm gonna watch it real closely.

And then um, once we're ready, we're gonna put a plan together. The money's gonna be there, and we're gonna start dropping. I'm not gonna shop him a deal, probably for two and a half years. Wow because he needs leverage. Yes, yes, key. Yep, level. I'm never signing a motherfucking deal, Wendy. Never. That's right. Never signing a deal. That's right. I knew that question was just gonna be like a 60-second master class. She could have kept going, bro. Should I have asked for the first year? No, like she, yeah. I feel like we cut her off. We'd be here for a year. Yeah. Yeah. She was gonna give us a two and a half year plan right now. Exactly. We'll plan part two for this before we leave. I love it. How about let's go to this one. In honor of the first day of October today, you must wear one Halloween costume year round. Forever. What's the Halloween costume? Just for a year. Just one year. Wonder Woman. Some sort of female superhero. Yes. Because I'm badass. That's Right. That's right. You are, Wendy. If you were looking to sign an artist, what are three immediate red flags? Oh they're late to the meeting by um longer than 15 minutes.

That's my first red flag. Um, they're over 25. That's my second red flag. Oh, it makes me sad. And my third red flag is they think that this is easy, and that they can just look at what Drake is doing and mimic everything he's done and be just as successful, and they're not coachable. You really flipped three different things in there. You got that. I know I was like five. three and one, three and one. Yeah, that was like five. You really don't think older artists can make it, huh? They can make it, it's just harder. So you just want the path of least resistance. Yeah, clearly. I'm at a point in my career. Yeah, I'm at a point in my career where I want it to be as easy and fulfilling as possible. I've already done hard and ridiculously difficult, you know. Like when I don't want to sign up for that shit. When I was working with Trouble, he was 27. I worked with him from 27 to 31. Like that was hard as fuck. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, the market is 13 to 26. So somebody who is in the middle of that, so what's the middle of that? 21 or 20 years old, looks at somebody who's 30 and they look old as fuck to them. It's like, damn, that's my dad's age. You know? And it's just hard. And I don't, I don't want hard. Yeah. I understand it. Facts. Shit. Been there, done that. Yeah. Last one of the short answer. What is your favorite curse word? Fuck. Part one. I was actually thinking that I think I think cunt is probably my favorite. But we've had I say fuck a lot, like fuck. Yeah. We've had, we've had someone. It's been two females that have said cunt is their favorite. word. Favorite curse word. It's it's strong. It's cunt. That's the C and the T. And the T Yeah. It really doesn't matter what the middle is. It doesn't matter. I can just go cunt. Yeah. and I feel better. Yeah, which is why. King. I just spit all over your mic, I'm sorry. King Kunta. Okay. That's just why King Kunta went like so hard, I feel like. Is that why?

Because there's a C in it. The K was K U N T, but still Same idea. Because it's cunt. Just those two sounds, you know. Kendrick Lamar, always onto something that we're not aware of. Um, moving on to the this or that portion, Wendy, I'm gonna give you two choices. You just have to pick one. Okay, here we go. Starting with Smooth melodies or knocking drums. Knocking drums. Ten minutes late or 30 minutes early. 30 minutes early. And she was early today. She was. Shout out. Knew it. Get paid up front or on the back end? Up front. Permanent runny nose or permanent hiccups. Hiccups. Gucci or jeezy? Jeezy. Provide an artist a great producer. Is there another answer to that? Dude, he would say Gucci for sure. I'd say Gucci by a hair. Oh, really? Just a hair? Maybe two hairs. Dude, because I would be young. Just a baby. I know. I know. I just had a special. I love Jeezy, man. Special relationship with Gucci growing up. One of my favorite artists. Yeah. Love Jeezy. Jeezy's just the best. That first album. He doesn't get enough. TM 101. Bro, Let's just say it right now and give motherfucking Jeezy his flowers, bro.

We've done it before, but we can do it again. Because no one does it like enough, man. Yeah. Jeezy does not get enough flowers, bro. I swear to God. Absolutely. How about provide an artist a great producer or provide an artist a great lawyer? Producer, because it's a production-driven industry. Ooh. Yes. Spotify or Apple Music? Spotify. Sign an artist based on talent or sign an artist based on work ethic. Work ethic. Give up the internet or give up three fingers of your choosing. Give up three fingers. Oh shit. I'll give up my whole hand for the internet. I'm always online. I might give up a foot and a hand. No, I'm serious. I might have to keep a nose. I might give up my nose. We literally just said you had to give up three fingers, bro. She's just willingly giving up body parts. This is more insight. I'll give it all. And finally, become a full-time uh singer-songwriter or leave the music industry forever. Oh, I have to do one or the other. Yep. Yep. Sing.

Reluctantly. I have no talent. We'll get you a coach. Get started. It's fine. I don't think it'll help. I don't know. We know T. Ron Thomas. Well, maybe we can link that a you know, Grammy winning songwriter of the year. So I love T-Ron. He's the best. The last part is the word association. I'm gonna say one word. You just give me the first word you think of. It's gonna be cunt, but go ahead. Every answer is just cunt. It's gonna be cunt. You can use cunt once. Damn. First. She's doing it first. Hopefully not, because the you know what the first one is. I don't. Oh, okay. Yes, I do. I've been here for 200 episodes. It's always the first same first one. Starting with music. Frequency. I thought you do hip hop first. Did you switch that recently? I switched it a while ago. Okay, well. See, I didn't know what it was gonna be. Well, we decided that we wanted to be more encompassing. Inclusive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely frequency. I just wrote an article about the frequency of music. It's all waves. It is. And I had no idea.

Like it took me 32 years in the business to finally like what? Music has frequency? Like, what matters? It's like, Oh, that's what they mean when they say it's wavy. Yeah. Moving on. Earwax. Oh, earwax was a store. So I'm thinking vinyl. Oh, nice. Taco. Bell. Record deal. Oppression. I thought she was gonna say cunt. I'm saving. I might need it for later. Hey, but you might get to the end and you don't know when that's going. I'll still say it. TikTok. Cunt. God damn it. Church. Music. Advance. Money. Hairspray. Oh, it was a movie. John Waters. I am old. Jesus. I know him. I remember hairspray. I was like, the way you said it didn't sound like you knew what the fuck she was talking about. You go, hmm.

She's like, I didn't think of that. Yeah, yeah. That is. I was like, hmm. Moving on. Oh, no, no, no. AR. Music. Orange. Red. Prison. Inmates. Emoji. Prayer hands. Album. CD. Lil. I'm sorry. Lil. Oh, little. Like L-I-L. Lil? Lil. Cunt. I don't understand. Are you saying L-I-L? We said one time, Wendy. I know, but yeah, it's Lil. Okay. Lil Cunt. Uh Young. If you're going to say Lil, I'm going to say young Y-U-N-G. Because it's, you know, the prefix to every rapper from the 2000s. And finally, rap. Music. We were looking for coalition right there. Rap We're looking for coalition. As always, please like, comment, and subscribe if you fuck with this interview. We appreciate Wendy Day for coming on the podcast.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Please join our webinar workshop, uh, whatever it is that we're gonna do with a business plan around, a music career. It's coming on the way. Yep, until next time, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Getting out of here. Peace, y'all.