The Ultimate Guide to Artist Development (ft. GRAMMY-winning Mannywellz & Yudu Gray Jr.)

I cannot work with you if you don't have a clear vision of success. And if you can't explain it or share it with others. I believe creativity is a muscle. Like you just have to create every day. I've been a part of special records and seen what we call like God in the room. It's just kind of this magic where, oh, we got something. Come to our studio and see what that show is gonna look like. That's an invitation that who's gonna turn down. I'm talented. My voice is unique. Cool. Okay. Nah, boy, get in the gym. On today's episode of the One More Time podcast, we sat down with Grammy Winning artist Mannywellz and business partner Yudu Gray Jr. This is a fun one because we get both artist and executive perspective on how they managed to transform this unknown Nigerian-born Maryland-based artist into a globally recognized superstar with millions of streams under his belt. This episode will be valuable for anyone who is an artist trying to break or helping an artist break in the industry in 2024. I'm confident that you guys will absorb some tips that you can apply to your own careers so you can find the success you're looking for a little bit quicker. Because that's what we're trying to do around here, right?

Let's dilly dally no further and get into the episode. welcome, Yudu Gray Jr. of 24-7 artists, and we got Manny Wells in the building. Let's go. Henry, I am excited for this one. This is gonna be a good one. I have a feeling. Manny came all the way from L.A. just for this. Right. Yeah. Just for this. Just For the one the no other, right? No other motives. Nothing. Love that. Nothing else. He heard we had Capri Sun on deck, and he just flew over. This might be the most baller shit we've ever had on the podcast of someone sipping a Capri Sun. Well, it was on his rider. Yeah. The fridge is stock cold, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Um, but no, so I I think it's it's really valuable that you guys are on because you have a long history together. So, you know, Yudu, if you want to kind of just like introduce yourself as far as like what you've built with 24-7 and like how you and Manny even came into the same, you know, uh, you know, sphere of influence, uh, I think that would be helpful for the audience. Absolutely, yeah.

So I'm Yudu Gray Jr., uh Liberian born, but now American living. Uh started out as a producer engineer way, way back in the day. I won't say what year. Um he told us how old he was off camera, guys. His best he doesn't say. Um, but yeah, I started at at the era of the ending of analog, beginning of digital. So I was one of those kids who had to learn tape decks and dats and all that, but was like an early adopter of like Pro Tools is the future, and like, you know, we were the young kids while the older, more established engineers like, yo, like no, like you guys are gonna ruin music. Um and I started out in a studio where uh the studios were closing, all the major studios were closing because the labels weren't spending money. Sounds like kind about now. Uh and I worked at a studio and I made a deal. I said I'll help you guys in the daytime for free, but I get the nighttime. And anything I make, I'll split with you 50-50. And I got all my artist homies who were independent, which is like not just artists, but graphic designers and video editors to come through and create, and that's where I got my start.

Eventually, my wife Davina and I started a studio called House in DC that became, you know, the epicenter, I think, of like that DC cultural shift in the early 2010s with like Wale and Raheem and Logic and Fat Trel and Shy Glizzy and everybody that popped off, and we became the home for all those artists. Uh and we were blessed enough to to launch a grant program where we we granted artists who applied access to our studio, um, access to our team and development. And in the years that we did it, we had a lot of artists apply. Some who didn't make it, who are now established, they know who they are. I won't say their names. Some who didn't make it. Sam, you say him, bro. You you want to get me, get me God. Oh, but I mean, I tried. Anything for the content. Flat TV is ass. But basically what happened was we we we didn't select the artists. We got people we trusted and respected to kind of become this delegate and vote.

And in the years that we did it, only one artist ever got a perfect score, which was do they have charisma talent? Do they have the work ethic? Are they consistent? You know, do we believe this person can make it? Only one artist out of all of the applications ever got a perfect, and it was Mannywellz. I was like, if this isn't Mannywellz? That would be so awkward. If it was the way you were like, yeah. Yeah. That's me. That's me. And it would be like William Smith. Wale got the perfect score. I knew Wale was a star. Okay, wow. I was like, this better be going where the thing is going from. But now he got it and he did it, he killed it, knocked out the park. You guys played a few of the records earlier from that era. And then uh after the grant program, Manny just kind of hung around because he was like, Look, I think I can do this, but I need help, and I'm just gonna keep coming to the studio until you guys help me, which I didn't understand at the time, but that's literally how I got my start. But I was annoyed by it.

I was like, yo, like, why is this kid still here? Like, why does he keep coming? And my wife was the one who was like, nah, like, yo, he's special. Like every time he gets in a room, he makes everything better on his humble. Um shout out to being in off camera. Hold on. She never told me that. He's actually hearing this for the first time. Yeah. So, like, where do you think you were at in your career at that point? Like, how would you describe it? You know, what I mean, just for everyone, you know, listening, paint the picture of kind of like where you were at, both like mentally and actually professionally. Like, you know what I mean? how would you describe that? I was probably like two, three years into production and producing, and about a year or two into being an artist. And off of my first song, I was like, I'm a star. Literally, I was I was like, Yeah, I'm a star.

But I just told myself that. So going to their studio was the first time I heard somebody else tell me that I was a star. And so duh, I'm gonna stick around. Like if you and I are the only people telling, me. yeah. They get it. You have one common common belief system in us. You think I'm a star. You think I'm gonna go home right now? I ain't going nowhere. Look, I picked up the phones at the studio to get free studio time. I've cleaned the bathrooms, I've picked up orders. Bruh, I've been I've helped their daughter with freaking homework. Love that. Like, I don't even know if she, if she got it right. We wrote something down. You might have been doing her a disservice, man. Like she might have failed the class. That's the last time I ever did that though. Yeah, that's too hard. Let me make some songs. Yeah. But yeah. So did you feel crazy? Like, you know, believing in yourself that much with no real stuff to show for it.

Cause I think a lot of our audience might be at that point of like they don't have shit going on. There's no like labels knocking. There might be the one person who's like, you're a star. And it's like, but am I really? You know, am I really a star? Like, how did you did you feel crazy about that? About thinking about it. Just thinking that. Like I literally just I made my first song, and I was like, this is good, and I'm a star. And I but I think that's a testament to my environment and also probably my parents. They just instilled like greatness, God's love, just good things into me. So like I could only think about doing good things and being the best at it. You know, my dad's like, just be the best. He played soccer, he makes music, he made music, he makes music, he's a singer. And so for me, it was just like, yeah, damn, I'm a star. Like, but I didn't realize I was crazy until later. Like, oh, like I'm crazy for thinking I'm a star.

I'm not even on the biggest platforms yet, and yet I'm walking around telling people and moving like I'm a star in the best way possible, not like snobby or yeah. Well, we've noticed that some of the people that do end up breaking through almost have to have that crazy belief. Like you have to almost be insane, be be willing to drop everything else and go all in on this dream that could very easily not work out for you. Which I did, yeah, which you did. There you go. I'm gonna pay it off. Yeah, so so I want to ask both of you this question like what did you see in each other, right? Because I know you mentioned he got this perfect score, right? But like, what did you you do personally, you know, see in him? And then vice versa, like for you to, you know, it had to be a little bit more than just like this is the only guy that's set on my star. You know what I mean? So, like, he's got a nice studio. What you know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. He's got that tube tech CL1B. You should know about that. It was free studio, time. that was all it took, bro. Aka the blue one.

Yeah, but yeah, so like starting with you, what did you kind of see in Manny at that point? it was real simple. We've been in, you know, at that point I'd been in the studio and been in thousands of sessions, right? And then not uh an exaggeration by any means. And every now and then you'd see these special moments. I'd been a part of special records and seen what we call like God in the room, where there's just kind of this magic where, oh, we got something. And with Manny, during his grant week, it happened every single time. Wow. And then after his grant week, it happened every single time. And it doesn't mean that you're gonna make a hit record, it doesn't mean that it's gonna be a game-changing record, but it's just this moment where like everybody in the room gets still in the cycle. what just happened? Um, and to this day, he still does whatever collaboration he's gotten when he leaves and I get feedback if I'm not there or if I'm there, they're like, yo, like I've never been in a session like that. So it's just like when someone has that gift, because that's a gift, like you can't teach that. That's an undeniable thing.

All the rest of it, we can get better at. The we put them through the gauntlet with practicing and training and writing sessions and guitar sessions and lessons on piano and stage presence. But that thing of like when you went to the room with other creative people, you make everybody feel something that they've never felt before. That like I I know I love that feeling, and I wanted to be a part of that feeling, even if I wasn't gonna be in a rooms. I just wanted to be with the guy who could do that every time. Do you think that there's artists out there that we all know and love today that maybe didn't give people that feeling earlier on in their careers? Like, can that evolve? For for sure. Okay. For sure. I think, you know, part of that development is if you're around it enough, you can pick it up, or if you're around it enough, you can tap into it. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like, you know, I'm an athlete, so I always go to sports. Like, there's some players who are just gifted, right? There's always gonna be that kid who can jump higher, run faster, whatever it is. And then there's that kid who's like bust their ass in the offseason or bust their ass when nobody's looking, and then they come back and they just do the little things that make the team better.

You can be that kid too. And I think the NBA is filled with a lot of those kids who may not have been a naturally born super talented athlete, but they figured out how to get really good at a thing or a couple of things to make a difference. I think you don't have to be born with that gift to be impactful as an artist, but you're gonna have to bust your ass in the offseason because there are people who are just born with like that it factor. Some people just sing better, some people just think quicker and can rap better and write better. But if you're not born with that, you for sure can study your craft. And I'm a believer that hard work beats talent. So I appreciate talent, but it's why when we had that, yo, here's a list of things we call it intangibles, hard work was on there as well as talent. And like I said, the reason he got in a perfect score was we were like, oh, he's hardworking and talented. And that's a rare combination. Yeah. I just saw a clip of Ed Sheeran talking about how he just does not believe in the slightest that he's naturally talented. He played a clip on this podcast of an old song of his.

Like the guitar comes in and like, okay, this sounds okay. And he just comes in singing the most horrible, like off-key runs, like high-pitched, like terrible. And he he just talks about how you know he practiced really hard and he just actually really tried. Um, but I do think some people are kind of born with it as well. So that should at least be motivation for people. Like, whether you do have it or not, there is the option of busting your ass and getting it, you know, if you don't have this gift. So it's it's available to anyone, I think, depending on how bad you want it, you know what I mean? Well, yeah, so same question to you, Manny. Like, obviously, yeah, he he he believed in you, right? Um, but beyond that, what did you feel like you know he was gonna bring to the table that was gonna actually like help you take your career where you needed to go? So I've always been a kid that always asked, what is this? Why, how? What is this product? What is this person, or who is this person? Why are they there as much, and how are they there as much?

And so I step in the studio that's clean as hell. And that's like a lot of studios aren't clean. That's a tip, right? If you if your studio is always clean, you might always get clients. Mm. Speaking from experience, so I stepped in the studio, I'm like, yo, it smells good in here. Did they have food? I don't remember they have food. I just felt welcome, right? And I was like, okay, this is cool. How do they do this? Why does this exist? And I was like, who owns this place? And then they they pointed at you do, and he was taking the trash out. Or he was bringing it in. What a glorious moment. Yeah, and I was like, that guy? That's the owner? I was like, What? I just I think we just like and he was just smiling the same way he's probably smiling right now. He's a smiley. He's a smiley dude. Yeah, he's just smiling. He's a super smiley guy. Then he put the the can back, uh, the trash can back. And I I don't know, I just kind of like admired that.

It was kind of like uh like a humble approach that he really just cared about his his uh what he was doing. Like he wanted it to always be clean. There were times where like the place was semi-clean, but it wasn't clean enough to his standard. And I've heard and I've seen him get on people like, yo, it's not clean enough. Like, you know, there's a stain right here, like it needs to be cleaner. So things like that really just made me want to stick around because I really admired that. Outside of, you know, you do believing in me and all of that, but it was like the intangibles, like how he treated people, because I'm big on that too. Like, he was just cool, he was chill, chill guy. And I'm like, yeah. Is he rich? Is he not rich? If he's rich and he's this nice, that's different. Because when you're coming up and you're like, yeah, I want to be, I want to be this type of person, artist, but entrepreneur. It's like, yeah, you gotta go, you gotta be mean.

You gotta call people out. And I'm like, well, this guy's not doing that. So is he doing it correctly? Yeah. Should he be yelling a little bit more? Yeah. So I've probably seen him yell twice. Oh god. And I didn't even see him. It was on the it was on the call, and I was worried. What happened? To make him yell? I can't really say. I wanna I want to hear this. No, I can't really say because it's Can you leave out the details and give the all- I called Auntie and I was like, hey, I I think he I don't know what's going on, but you just kind of yelling right now. Never experienced this before. Yeah. And then I called him, he was meant to pick up the phone. He picked up the phone, he wanted to respond, and then whatever happened took him to a whole nother place. But story is now I really want to know what the fuck. Everyone does. All right, off camera, off camera. Yeah, tell us later. But so when y'all officially started to work together, how did you structure the partnership?

Because I think this is once again, you know, for people who are like, you know, find someone that maybe they want to team up with. I don't know that they all understand like how it should be done or can be done, right? So like, how did y'all officially structure the the partnership initially? Can I answer? I'd like, yeah. Yeah. He did that shit for free. The earliest, so he calls me in his office, he's like, You're a star. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I tell him, thank you. In my head, I'm like, yeah, I know. Right. But I'm like, you can't be like that crazy like and prideful, right? So he tells me that, and right after that, or shortly after that, he sends my music to some record labels, and I got so mad. Why? Because I hated labels. I was like, I was that was like the rise of um independence, Mm-hmm. like at its peak, and I was like, man, F these labels, man, they ain't messing with me now. I don't want nothing to do with them.

Don't you ever and he's like, bro, chill. And so I'm like, oh, this dude kind of is uh interested, he's an interesting dude that he cares about me. So fast forward to 20 yeah, probably like 2016. A few years later, I'm working at a bank, and um, and yeah, I'm working at no, it's just before after. I'm working, and then he's like, yo, I'll give you the studio for a month to work on your EP. I quit my job. Oh shit. I quit. Like that. Yes, the next day. Just sleeping in the studio, like dug in it? He said for 30 days. Yeah, we probably were there for 45 days. After the 30th day, I didn't say nothing to him. I just kept going back. It's not done, you do. On the 31st day, he was like creeping in. He was like, is like an alarm gonna go off. Like am I allowed to Did he change the locks? My code still works.

yeah. Did he change the code? So, but by then, so after that, it was like uh he had some partners with the company, and he was like, okay, let's partner up and see how we could support this this project and EP. And so from there, that's how we were able to like start figuring out how to market the EP that I worked on in those 30 days. And then that's when I got on tour with on the road with Jadena, and they just kind of supported me through that. So that was like our first form of partnership. And that was like our first time putting anything on paper, but we had to put it on paper because it was of it was supposed to be like the thing. A lot of the sit situations that artists are in now, like we did that. Yeah, way before people were talking about like partnerships in this way, and yeah. Yeah, so that was like me and him. That was the first time I saw 5050 partnership. And we're gonna do this, and we're gonna support you in this way.

And I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So this this is huge. It's like a trial kind of period. no no. The the trial thing is interesting. Hint, you took a fucking gamble, my guy. No, he did. But 30 days of just letting this this guy in the studio. But you know what the 30 days was? It was where I found out that it was real. Because like I said, I'd seen his impact and over and over again. But it it maybe had only been like call it eight to 10 sessions. But I'd never seen anyone do it that many times in a row. So it's like, is he really what I think he is, or am I like tripping? Like so the only way I could do it was let me give him a period of time. And we had three rooms in the studio at the time or two and a half. And we're like, all right, the B-room upstairs is yours. And all the records you were playing when we walked in, that's where those records came from. So imagine like everything that you heard that you were like, yo, this is dope. Like every day I'd walk in and hear like he produced, he wrote, recorded everything himself. So he'd lay the drums and he'd lay the keys and he'd lay the percussions. Then he'd get his homie to come in and play the guitar riff, and then he'd have like a scat on there and like have like an idea of like a tribal background sound.

And every day I'd come in to get a little better, a little better. And I'm like, oh, this kid's doing this by himself. Like I've never seen this before. Like now, you know, it's much more common, I think, to see the producer rapper, the engineer producer, rapper. But again, 2016, there weren't a lot of kids doing it like that that way themselves. What are you using? Fruity loops at the time, FL? Fruity loops, then my laptop crashed. Ah, rest in peace. And then I moved to Ableton. I moved to Ableton. Never looked back. So it was a trial. It really was like worst case, it's our B-room. Like we had some downtime downtime, we can figure it out. But best case, if he is what I think he is, then we've got a gem. And 30 days later, or he needed a little bit more time. But again, you're producing, writing recording yourself, um, and bringing your homies in and respectful of the space and cleaning it afterwards, and again, we're giving him the GoPros and he's recording the whole thing and we're documenting it, and then we're sending photographers in there and getting these cool-ass behind-the-scenes shots. I'm like, yo, in 20 years, we're gonna be able to say, like, we were there at the beginning, like this is it.

Um and it was it, and it was good enough that like when it got to Jaden and his team, they were like, yo, we want him to go on a roll with us, and it just like took off. Yeah, and I feel like you know, not only did you kind of put his creativity to the test, honestly, like making sure that this guy's the star that that you thought he was, but also you probably witnessed that work ethic side of things too. Like this kid is not fucking like he's not just in there like dicking around just because like, oh, he's got a free studio for a month, like, cool. But it's like you were taking full advantage, yeah, and just making things at all times and like really putting in the work, and that's like that's a that's almost just as important as like is the stuff good? Because to your point, like the stuff can get better if you're willing to like really lock in, you know. One of the craziest things about that process is that I was trying so many things and so locked in. I didn't watch Ableton tutorials until after the 45 days. Wow.

You learned a DAW? Yes. Just clicking, pressing buttons. There's something beautiful about that, though. creating my own like kind of workflow. And after I was able to um, I had a friend that was already using Ableton, he would come in and I would be doing stuff and he'd be like, Well, you could try this, I'll try it. I'd be like, Oh, I don't know if I really like that. I've been doing it this way, it works. And so, yeah, I didn't watch Ableton tutorials really till after that. Wow. We talked to a lot of people about um, it was Slim Wave, who's like five times Grammy nominated, like super dope, uh, you know, producer. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he's a really cool guy. And he was talking about how like sometimes he feels crippled by he like knows too much about music theory because he's a multi. He plays 11 instruments. He plays 11 instruments. So sometimes he's like super caught up in the like, well, this chord can't go with that chord because music theory says this is wrong. You would have maybe been in that boat, bro, with like the Ableton.

If you would have been this like Ableton expert, you might not have clicked into half the dope shit that you like ended up making because you would have been maybe too like knowing everything prevents you from making like cool mistakes and happy accidents that lead to something that no one's ever done because you have all this knowledge and you have this preset workflow, whereas like creating is supposed to be this free-flowing thing where you can stumble into something dope. Hey, Henry here. Sorry to interrupt this podcast, but there is something I have to address. As many of you know here at one more time, we love doing live music reviews. We love hearing the music from our community and providing helpful feedback that is hopefully helping you further your career. But if there's one piece of advice that we are tired of giving, it's that your master is too quiet. We shouldn't have to turn up the volume for your song just to have to turn it back down for the next song. That's not good. But Henry, good mastering engineers are so hard to find and so expensive. Enter DistroKid's newest tool called Mixia. I master music myself. And while I don't think AI mastering will ever replace the quality you get from an experienced human mastering engineer, it's pretty damn good.

And if you already distribute through DistroKid, you can now master unlimited tracks using Mixia. And if you don't, we have a link right here. You can sign up for DistroKid with 30% off. Upload unlimited music yearly for an insanely cheap price. Humans perceive louder as better. It's dumb, but it's true. Use Mixia for a clean master, and you won't sound weak on that playlist. Let's get back to the episode. So I want to talk about like the onboarding process. So, like obviously the you know, 30 to 45 days was kind of like that trial, but I know that this is something that I think you utilize in even like the 24-7 artist program side of things, right? Like, talk to us about like, all right, artist comes on board, what do we do? Like, what are kind of some of those first steps? So there's gonna be a bunch of artists who watch this who laugh because they know exactly what's coming. Okay, like from 24-7? From 24-7. And this fucking guy, here we go. Always talking about the same. shit. Why would you ask him that? Floodgates are opening right now. Fast forward to this, right? It's it's real simple, right?

Like, to me, you have to have a very clear vision of success. The vision board. I cannot work with you if you don't have a clear vision of success, and if you can't explain it or share it with others. Part of the grant program that he was in, he had to create a vision board before anyone got in the studio. And we how we put the vision board on the wall when you're making the project. So, what is the vision board act? Like, for those that are like, well, you know, I think I know, but like not really sure what he's talking about. Like, what is a vision board and what goes on it? The easiest way I break it down is if you won the lottery, but the biggest lottery, the billion dollar lottery, what is your life look like in six months? Not immediately, not when you get the first, not when you ball out, not when you get the first chain, the first car, not even when you get the first house, but after you've accomplished that. What's the new normal? What's the new normal? What do you do with your life? Who are you spending time with? How are you spending time? What are y'all doing? Like, if you play golf, like, okay, playing golf with who and why? And like, if you want a really nice car, where are you driving to?

And who are you driving with? If you want a big house, who's coming to that house and what are y'all doing? So you've got to be able to paint such a clear picture that anybody connected to you is now bought into like this is what we're working towards. It's actually kind of detail-oriented versus I think when I talk to a lot of artists, I think the biggest pitfall that they have is they're a little too general and vague. So I do think that, yeah, like even just you saying like who's coming to your house and what are you doing? I'm like, fuck, who's who's coming to the crib and what are we doing? It kind of made me nervous. Like I'm about to have guests over. Who am I gonna play golf with? I have no idea. I was thinking that's what was going through your head. Where are you playing and Who's playing? Copy on that one? Bro, but if you think about it, it's like, yo, like, you know, I was an engineer, so like yo, I want the C800 microphone. It's like, all right, you get the microphone. 10,000. Who are you recording? Like, you get this microphone for what? Yes. Yo, I want the noise speakers, okay. But what are you playing out of them? Who are you inviting? So, like, it applies in every aspect of life. But that clarity forces somebody to understand do they really want the thing, or is it just like a shiny object?

And then the other thing with Manny that, like I asked him a question, and there's no right or wrong answer, but it lets us know how to move. Is are you doing this for now or are you doing this forever? Right? Are you doing this for now? Which is like, we're gonna do whatever it is to get on now, to jump on the trend, whatever hot sound, whatever quick collab to get as much buzz now, and then whatever happens, happens, or are you doing this forever? And what I told him was like, Bob Marley is forever. Like, I think you can be that. There are a lot of people who even now, it's funny, like if we say like the artists who were popping in 2014, 15 who aren't relevant today, but were the hottest thing in the world then. And I would tell them then, like, they're not planning forever. They're they're gonna be hot now and they'll do 2,000 cap venues now and they'll be on the top of the charts today, but they won't be around 10 years from now. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's their path. If that's what you want to do, we can design that for you. But if you want the other thing, then it's gonna take a little longer, but the journey is going to be beautiful.

Yeah, and he was down for that. And I was like, just know then, like, if you're in your if you're 20 and you say I want to do this forever, and forever is until 80, then you've got 60 years of a career, which means you shouldn't even be in your peak until you're 30, right? Because if you do it ideally, halfway is where you should be at your top, and then the rest of the way you're coasting. And a lot of people I think are so eager to get on now that it's like, all right, so you got on now, but now you've got 60 more years, like that's 60 years of decline. Like, nobody wants that. And so when Yeah, we live in a world right now where it's just like instant gratification, bro. Like, so it's almost like the world is like forcing people to answer that question of like, well, we gotta get on now, because if we don't get on now, we're fucked. You know what I mean? But it's not that. And when he said forever, I was happy because you know, we we've been doing this now 10 years, which is a long time, and he's the biggest he's ever been in his career today. Yes, and 10 years. So it quite literally is yeah, yeah, literally It's all growth.

Yeah, that's that's beautiful because there's been too many examples to your point of like you got this hit, and then it's like, where the fuck did he go? You know what I mean? I am not going anywhere. Yes, to every new hater. Speak on it. You just blocked me. Literally, yeah. Yeah, we don't want you here. Yeah, well, because like it's just funny. Like, I texted some of the homies like, yo, I am so happy I have haters now. Yes, we are here, that's how you know you made it, bro. It's an indication. We're getting there, yeah. But we're here. It's wild. Even looking at us, man. Like, like we've been doing this for a few years now, and sometimes I get caught up in that. Like, why aren't we bigger? And why do we have more views and more sponsors and more this and that? And sometimes I have to like remind myself that like the biggest podcasts on the planet, the ones that have been around for a while, have been doing this shit for 10 years. Yeah.

It literally, like, it's almost like a 10-year mark is almost like a beautiful like milestone to kind of like just be like, all right, buckle up, Henry. We're doing this for seven more fucking. years. We're not even halfway there yet. Literally, you know? And our growth, I would say, is the same. Like, we are the bigger than we've ever had. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And so that's what, but it's it's tough to not want to like cater to that like itch, you know what I mean? That you just want to scratch it as far as like fuck. Like, I want to be, you know, making the most viral content all the time and get all the views and get all the streams and the TikToks and all the things. So that's dope. So okay, we got the vision board. Like, how did you feel that the vision board actually influenced your art? Because I think it's important. Like, yes, from a business perspective, it's great. I think we can kind of understand like why we do it. But do you is there any correlation you can draw to like when I made this vision board and actually like spelled it out and painted it, you know, on a board. How did you then maybe like, you know, evolve the art or like how did it channel itself into the music?

Especially with it being up in the studio while you're like you're looking at it and shit, you know? I think it definitely influenced a lot of my business decisions. Because but artistically, it was in my head, and now I just get to see it every day. So it's just like reminders. Like, oh yeah, that's okay. Yeah. That's yeah, yeah, reminder. Maybe more subconscious. Yeah, subconscious. But like when I remember when we're faced with certain decisions, or what, what do we want to do? How do we want to do things? I'm like, oh, okay. That type of artist, this type of lifestyle, I can't do this, or I need to do this. So it it kind of, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like does this align? Yeah, does this align? with what I spent hours, days, however long it took you to make the fucking board? It's like, and this is like this is something we're Do we need a vision board? We do. Hey, I mean, you do.

Do we need a vision board? No, 100%. Okay, we need a fucking. I'm going to make you do a vision board. Yeah. I hated vision boards. Really? Bro, it's in my head. Yeah. I'm an artist. He knows I won't even meet with him unless he's it's clear. Yeah. It'd be in my head. But what if the music was just in your head? You gotta make the music. Yeah, exactly. Bringing it into reality. Yeah, and and I just think it is a good guiding light. You know what I mean? And I think that we're just we we have like existential crises pretty much like daily. Daily, bro. We have no idea what we want to be when we grow up sometimes, guys. So like I'll see if we can find a picture of his vision board session. Yeah. On the vision board, there were three things that he said that we did. I'll put the first one, which I think is the most important, he wanted to buy his mother a house. I'll never forget the day where he called and said, Yo, we just closed on our house. I can't believe this happened. Hell yeah. Mama Wells. Mama Wells got our house. Yes. Um, well deserved. The second thing was he wanted to sell out his hometown. Uh we sold out every venue at every stage, and when we sold out Howard Theater last year.

Oh, wow. That, you know, that's a historic legendary theater. And he, you know, it was an emotional day, I'll just say, for everybody who was there, because we remember when the idea of that was one of those crazy things. And the third one was he only had one artist name on there, and it was Wale, because Wale was the biggest artist in DC at the time. Um, still the biggest artist from DC, um, and the big homie, but he ended up on Wale's album, and then Wale ended up on his album. So it's like the power of the vision board is real. I live it, like literally, I live the vision board life. I am like a walk-in representation of it, but I get more joy out of seeing other people accomplish it. It's why I push it on people, because I'm like, I know it's in your head, but there's something powerful about, like you said, subliminally, you don't even understand it. But why is it that you get two records with Wale? Like you made a decision to buy your mom a house. Like you could have bought a car for yourself, you could have upped your wardrobe, you could have flew first class more, but you were strategically doing things that put you in position to get your mom a house because it was in front of you. So I just wanted to say that too.

If you're in a new artist, if you're a manager, if you're anybody creative or or anybody in life and you feel stuck, work on a vision board. And even if it takes you a couple months, just like start answering those questions of like, all right, you said if I won a lottery after I ball out. So you've got the the Jordan collection, you've got everything you wanted physical, what would you do and why? And again, when I asked that question, he was like, Oh, I'd buy my mom a house. Like, without a doubt. So that happening to me is like, yo, that's uh that's the win. Another big part of you know, your framework that you encourage artists to do is is goal setting, right? So I think that you know, obviously the vision board is one, yeah. He's like, he's like having PTSD from this whole, like, I'm sure you're still doing it, but like yeah. So, you know, what types of goals are realistic for you know, up and coming artists to be setting? Like, like just give some examples of just like things that you were maybe setting early on in the career. Once you have your vision board, which is like that big, oh my God, I can't believe it life, then we bring it down to earth and we say, okay, now let's zoom in six months.

So I go like extreme, like, what are you six months after you've won the lottery? And then I go to like, all right, where are we six months from now? Right. And six months is very easy because I think it's either gonna be within the same year or you can like grasp the idea of like, oh, that's only that month. And what I would say to an artist is like, based on that vision board, pick one thing that you're gonna work towards, you know, that's gonna make that happen. So if you're an artist and you're like, oh my vision board, I want to sell out a global tour, but you've never done a live show, then six months from now you should do your first live show. And whether that live show is a so far sounds, whether that live show is an open mic, or whether that live show is a backyard joint like LaRussell, like, and and the family and the homie are out there and you rented a PA system and the homeboy who's an engineer is running sound and it sounds like shit, like six months from now, do your first one. Because you can never get to the sold-out tour if you don't do your first show. If you're like, yo, I want to be the next Whitney Houston and have this many number one records, but you've never put a record out, like six months from now, let's put a record out. Like it's a very simple first step.

But the process of going through and doing it and learning is really, really important. And I just think so many people get stuck because you can do anything today in this internet artist AI era. Like, you can ask the internet anything and you can get a million different ideas and you can have spice packs and you can have all this stuff, but like people just get stuck because they're not clear on like, oh, I just need one thing that I've got to focus on. And so I usually tell people like pick a thing on that vision board and just work towards that for six months. And then get better at like, all right. So the next thing, now instead of six months, can I do it in three months? And then the next thing instead of three months, can I do it in three weeks? And now he knows like we work in one week sprints. So it's like, what's the goal for this week? Like, I'm clear on your vision board. And I know where we we're working towards tour and we got EP and we got this, but what do we have to do this week? Because now you're a machine. Now you're a business with yourself and you have employees and you have people who depend on you. So you've got to be clear in seven-day sprints.

But if you're a brand new artist, don't put that pressure on yourself. Just like six months from now, I'm gonna do this one thing and it's gonna be my biggest win to date. And it's a win. Celebrate that win. Shout out to Davina. I did not celebrate wins early. I've learned to now because I realized like people need that momentum, they need that excitement. So if it's a YouTube channel and you're just like, yo, I'm gonna get a hundred subscribers, celebrate the shit out of that first hundred subscriber. And you can break that down, celebrate your first 10 subscribers. Because like the only way you're gonna get to the million subscribers, you learn how to get one, then 10, then a hundred, then a thousand, and then you grow and grow and grow. But so many kids, like you said, are like, man, I did 10 videos and I haven't gotten a million subscribers and I haven't got a million views and I haven't got a million followers. It's like, bro, let's let's break it down to like right now. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge that a lot of artists have, man, and just honestly creatives and business people in general is just like, what should we be doing with our time? Literally, it's like we even it's like, how should we? There's only so many hours in the day, right?

What do we do? How, How do we spend our time? So, like, you know, early on, what were you doing? You know what I mean? Like, of course, you were making the music. That you know, you have to do that, guys. We have to make the music. That's the product that we have here. But like, how did you, you know what I mean? When you started doing things outside of just the music, how are you spending your time as an artist? Reading books. Just YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. How do I do this? How do I do that? And so another cool thing about having like a like a big bro, is you you're someone like me. I just always have a lot of thoughts and ideas and concepts. And it's like a is this right? All right, let me call you dude. Is this uh is this crazy? All right, let me call you dude. You know, so um I've read the um All You Need to Know About the Music Business four times, two versions. Shout out to Donald Pass, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. There's they're on like version 11 or some shit. Yeah, and I get it. I read it somewhere, I gave it away to people who like shipped it to uh fans and stuff like that. That won't, you know what I'm saying? But that's what I was doing early on. But then after reading, it was like, okay, how do I implement this? Because I think nowadays we are this generation is we have a lot of information fatigue. Yes, there's too much information, there's too much information. Don't sign, sign, bro, man. Post TikTok, post TikTok. don't post TikTok. Man, respect the art. I'm like, I just need to shut up and just do something. They're like, Manny, how are you so good in the studio? Still, Bro, I literally spent 45 days every day making a song. Don't you think I'm gonna be the best? Yeah, and I still do it till today. If I'm not in the studio, an idea comes and I voice note it, and the song is almost built out in my mind before I'm done in the studio.

Looking for God. Um, my new song, ooh, we, the melody was literally on a flight a few months ago, and I voice noted in February, and I was like, oh, this is this song's gonna go crazy. And we're talking, we're even talking about he was asking me why did you release this instead of the other one? And I was like, bro, I just it was a feeling, but I was giving him the whole breakdown. But the fact that those songs were like ideas in my mind, and I built it out is a testament to like just staying at it, studying and and like um keeping up with that creative muscle because I believe creativity is a muscle. Like you just have to create every day. It doesn't, you don't have to make a whole song every day, but create every day and make and try to make progress. There's no way you won't be a beast. Like you you can learn to become the best singer. So what he's really smart too, and this is where if you're a manager, even if you're more experienced, like you've got to trust the talent. He was like, Man, this is the record, but like I'm gonna put the sound out before I put the record out.

I was like, what do you mean? I'm gonna I'm gonna just drop the sound. Because if if enough people use it and create without it being a song, they're all gonna go crazy when it drops. And so he put the sound out, and what did it have in the first three days, four days? First three days was like 10,000. In six days we're looking at like videos, unique videos created with the sounds. Oh my God. We're hitting probably by tonight, we'll be at 70,000 Wow. creates. We went, yesterday, we went from we went from like 35 to like 50 yesterday. And so how did that actually happen? Because I, you know, I do want to break this down. So you posted a video with the sound. Did you do any sort of call to action encouraging people to No. No. You never ask. Don't ask. You don't look done. Don't ask. Don't ask. As a it's different. I think this is good. If this is your like they need to hear it. I think, and also it depends on your fans and your type of audience. Like you need to know your audience.

Like with certain hip hop audiences, you might be able to be like, yo, yo, yo, man, I'll just drop this new single. Playboi Carti could probably be like, use this sound. No. Yo, was that your rapper voice, by the way? No, because his I was like, bro. he's just turned full rapper. Yo, yo, yo, like use my sound. But I've seen a rapper do that and it went crazy. Or the caption says, use this sound. But like Playboi Carti doesn't. Because his audience is like cool, mysterious, and da, da, da, da, da. so you just like almost have to be cool. And like, uh yeah, just drop this sound. Yeah. And like if you know your audience, you if you study your audience well enough, you'll know what to do. And for me, I know my I I feel like I know my audience well enough to be like, don't look desperate. But create something that is entertaining for them that serves them in 20 to 30 seconds. So what type of video did you make?

And then what were the general types of videos, right? If there was some sort of trend or like, you know, type of video that the audience was making, like, were those similar to what you made, or did they just make whatever the fuck? No, so I think I And like what was the sound? What was the song again? This was happening a lot now. So okay, but like this one we're talking about. This one we're talking about is um, ooh wee. Okay, ooh wee okay, yeah. Funny enough, the song is actually supposed to be called Brown Skin. Okay. Because I, you know, but I posted something was just like, yo, post this part first, and I just did it. And it's also when you do something long enough, there's like this instinct, and I'm always praying and talking to God. So I feel like it was following I was following directions, right? Post this part. I post it. I'm just being silly, I'm being fun, but also smooth. I'm eating chocolate. I'm, you know, I'm chilling in a nice garden, and um, it's like a bright video, so it immediately hits you, like, what is this? And the dude's talking about chocolate and caramel.

So it's smooth. It's like what's going on? There's a lot happening. The outfit looks nice. Like, he's wearing yellow. This place is bright. You know what I'm saying? He's eating chocolate. He has a hat on. What's going on? The hat says whatever it says, you know what I'm saying? You are from like what's there's a lot. So they stay and I entertain them in however long. And so if you're able to figure out how to serve your audience through entertainment as an artist, you'll win all the time. But a lot of times, our end goal is to is from uh it's more desperate. Like, I I need them to listen to a song. No, no, no. It has uh yeah, you have to be like, how do I serve them? How do I serve them? Yeah, yeah, it's like yeah, it's like the push versus pull type of thing. People don't like to be told what to do. They like to they like to think they came up with it. It's like inception, yeah. You can incept the idea that that they can kind of come up with the idea to use the song themselves. It's like chocolate and caramel. The caption says, ooh-wee.

So what did the 10,000 videos that were made in the first like you know, few days? You know, was there a general theme amongst those videos? Like yeah, just beautiful women. Beautiful black women that are chocolate and caramel. Okay. Yeah. So it was like they're just like, oh, this is our song. Yeah. Oh. When the audience like personalizes something like that, oh my God, man. That's like there are videos. There's a video I just saw that somebody sent me. She's like, this girl's like, uh, yeah. All those other songs about black women in general was great, but the dark skin girls, we felt left out. But this one's for us. Okay, yeah. That's the that's why it worked. I'm like that, yeah. Audience. But the funny thing is that I was telling you this, like, they don't even, they still don't know that this whole song is for all of them, but that part just feels like it's for them. And I'm okay.

I don't need to even tell them like this for everybody, no. Think what you want. Like, I even changed the name of the song because of you guys. Yeah. That was part of the reason for the name change. Yeah. Wow. Like you are, you are kind of in control. Like, I create art from a clean place. I don't create art to go viral. I don't create art to be famous. I create music to serve people. Mm-hmm. And so while I'm serving you, and you're like, this rice needs to be cooked a little bit more. And I'm like, I don't think so, but okay, let me go try to cook this rice a little bit more for you. And you come in, now, it tastes great. And maybe I didn't even do it, and not too much, but I came back like, yes, it looks better now. And they eat it. You know what I'm saying? And they're like, oh, we like this rice now. And that's how I that's how I look at my art. It's like, okay, fine tuning. I'm gonna post this clip. I'm gonna work on the whole song, but I'm just gonna share this part.

Do you like it? I'm gonna tell you it's unreleased. Do you want me to go finish it? Yes, man, go finish it. We need the song right now. So it it was finished already. Oh, yeah, the song's been done. But you know, but like that's you're comfortable changing your art for your audience a little bit. Because I think a lot of artists would be very like, no, this is my art. I don't care what the audience thinks. I didn't change nothing in the song. I just changed the title. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, okay. Because the song was already done. Song's done. I'm not going back. The song's amazing. but you responded to what you saw happening on the internet, yeah. And was like, maybe let's change the title to make it a little more inclusive. Yeah. And you were talking off camera about kind of feeling like you have an understanding now of what your audience responds to. So you might, you know, change a lyric or do a bridge in a certain way, or have a hook that serves your audience maybe more than you would have done it on your own. This is a good I I this is a really good topic, actually. How do you feel like you learned who your audience was? I just stayed on the apps.

Read the comments and read the comments, look at their pages. Like, I I I know a lot of my super fans. Like just by name and by profile and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Like as soon as I see their name, I'm like, oh, they come. Like my notifications are off now. But when I see, like, when I get on the app, it's like, oh, this person commented. let me see what they say. And I interact with them and like just make them feel loved and special. Like, I do this to serve you. Like, yeah. Jim. Ah, it's that's amazing, man. So we're clipping that. From from your perspective, like earlier on, obviously, like, you know, you've evolved, of course. I'm I'm sure you're kind of like a you know, ship that's sailing along now nicely. But like, but like what were like the early were there's some, like, you know, speed ups. Manny ain't doing this, and I'm fucking telling him to do it. Like what were the the most um common like either arguments or like disagreements or just like things that maybe y'all weren't seeing eye to eye on, like the biggest friction, I guess. You know what's hilarious, and it's the the most ironic thing was it took everything for us to get Manny to post on social media.

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. Was he always a content beast or no? He was anti-social media because and I mean the reality of it is if you look at it and and its impact, positive and negative, you know, it it can be an unhealthy thing. Sure. And so for the longest time, he was very anti-social media, very anti, like, yo, like the idea of like posting and and sharing all this stuff behind the scenes and sharing this music when it's not right and sharing these photos that may not be the best, you know, looking or best edited. Like, I'm not doing that. And it was at the time when like we were very much involved in like the behind the scenes, but also like the content. You know, we had like full content teams and photographers and videographers, and we had like albums and albums and albums of, you know, I'll tell you about terabytes of of hard drive footage of of behind the scenes stuff no one's ever seen, probably good now. But I'd be like, yo, Manny, like, share the story. Like, people don't know you're producing these records because we're not sharing that you're producing these records.

And he'd be like, nah, like, you know, my fans don't want to see that. And I'm like, bro, like, you know how many people are gonna be inspired by the fact that you played that key, or like the fact that you know, no one knows that he came up with ooh we on a plane, right? That's like a story that I'm the kind of music nerd that I would love to hear that that voice note and know, like, oh, that came from that, that. That's crazy. Oh, we need that, we need that. But he was not for it. And then it was funny, like when he when he switched though, he switched hard. Because one day he called me, he's like, boss, I got it. Yo, content. I was like, what? He's like, yo, I got it, content. And sure enough, like a couple months later, people are texting me, like, have you heard of this guy, Manny Wells? Like, yo, he's a king of content. I'm like, only he would do that. Like, go from not posting it all to now, like, yo, can Manny teach a class on like how to create social content? I'm like, can Manny teach a class on social content? Like, but he So what happened? What happened? What clicked? Yeah, what uh like something had to happen. Like, I think the biggest thing was you don't want to sign.

Talking about myself. I was like, I I wouldn't mind. Depends on the offer, bro. No, I was I had a like come to Jesus moment with myself. You don't want to sign, but you want this music to hit a million people, millions of people, and you're not about to be in the street with a guitar. No, not to anybody that does that, right? But like, you're not gonna do that. What is the solution to um getting to that next level? On top of that, a lot of artists in your lane also don't like content and don't want to make content. And so when people are going zig, I like to go zag. I like to go the opposite. That's a bar. That that helps me stand out because if it's everyone's here, even sonically, I was telling you to like, yeah. I was telling you to, like, yo, everyone's in this pocket right now.

I'm gonna stay here and cause a fire. Because if that building's on fire, the whole neighborhood is gonna be like, what's happening over there? But if everyone is at this party, how do you really start a fire that's like noticeable? If we're all in here, we start a fire, we're all gonna put it out. You know what I'm saying? But if it starts fires over there, we'll be like, do we need to put it out? How do we put it out? Call 911. That's the analogy that clicked in my head. It was like, oh, I need to start a fire. And so I started looking at how do we start fires in different pockets? Okay, you gotta make content. And I said, I'm gonna become the best content artist, content person ever. Because you do that with everything. Yes. I just tell myself I'm gonna be the best, and I'm and I am. How did y'all come up with like the types of content to post? Because I feel like you, you know, have talked a lot about this, and and you know, 24-7 artists is like content pillars and kind of brand pillars. So, like, can you talk about that methodology and like what a pillar means and like how our audience can like, you know, bring that to life for themselves? Absolutely.

So I think you know, when when you're looking at, you know, we use the word content, which I know people are afraid of. So just to say life. If you look at life and you say, What what do you enjoy doing? What are the things that if if no one's watching, or if you didn't have to go to work, what would you do? And it's I'd play video games, I'd play golf, play basketball, watch a movie, watch, you know, the those things become the pillars of your life. Hang with my kids, hang with my parents, hang with my friends. Those things become pillars of your life. And then what you're doing in those things are kind of like the the moments, the snapshots that would be your life album. That's what content looks like to me for someone. And so it it it's funny, like, for some people, I'm like, yo, if you like cooking, your content could be you singing and cooking, right? Like, because it's two things that you both would do if the cameras weren't there. And if you could just set up a camera, cook, and sing, and then chop that up and put it out. It's probably somebody who's gonna go on there and be like, yo, I love that song.

Oh, I love that meal. And then for sure there'll be people on there who like, I hate that song and I hate that meal. But it gives people something to talk about. So we always just say, like, if you remove the idea of like the cameras in your face, what would you do? Like for you all, I have a feeling that if you weren't on a podcast, y'all would still sit around and talk about the things you're talking about now, right? And if you had a chance to sit with a Yudu and Manny Wells and there were no cameras, we'd have the very same conversation. So the you're not creating content, although you are, you're really just doing a thing you would normally do, and then it just so happens that you figured out how to like share it with the world, and there's a bunch of other people, us included, who love your interviews and love the conversations and love the gems and love the the honesty and the realness and the yo, we don't have it all figured out. We're here to learn just like you are. Yeah. So I feel like that's like the core of it. And then people like Manny, I think take that and elevate it because he's like, Yeah, I like fruit and I like healthy lifestyles, but I'm gonna do it in a cinematic, cool ass way that makes someone feel like he says, What is this? Why is he doing this?

Why why would a bald dude comb his hair? Like that's crazy. Yo, I was wondering what was actually going on in my head of like, why does he have a comb? That's what he wants you to think. But I just I just put it together, it took that long, man. I'm sorry, and I've noticed there's comments on your post too saying the same thing, and you're creating that moment for them to be like, wait, it's been a week, man. That's just yeah. Apparently that just sailed right over my head. It did. I'm glad I'm here now. I'm actually combing my hair though. I mean, I I yeah, I mean what, like the goatee, or like what are we? No, I actually never even touched the goatee. I'm actually combing my hair. Is it doing anything? That's the question. That's the question. I trust no, I'm combing my hair. Yeah, but is it changing? Is it actually doing that? No, it feels it feels good. Okay, there we go. You're combing your head. My hair. Your head.

Don't want to stop. Oh God. Okay. Anyways. It's great. Were y'all running ads? How how do ads play into the success of like finding fans for you? I don't run ads until it works. Yes. What do you mean by that? You see that a the number hits a certain metric. Um so for me, if I hit like 50k, I still I actually don't even run, I haven't ran ads in a minute. I probably run ads to like events and shows and concerts. But um but earlier on, maybe Earlier on. We prior to content becoming cool. Yeah, yeah, we definitely ran ads when when we first partnered up, we ran ads. Um it wasn't as successful. It wasn't the real interactions came from like touring shows. Yeah, we did like college runs, we did like uh uh HBCU run, and you know, 30 kids come out and meet you and they'll follow you on the spot. We were looking at like, oh, we went to UMBC or Morgan or or Howard or wherever, and 30 days after that, we saw a spike.

And but you'd run ads, and we realized, like, oh, we ran $300 in ads, and you saw like a little blip, but like those people left after 30 days because like they didn't, there was no real connection. Mm-hmm. But we saw that when people came out and got to meet them and got to know them, that those are the people who would go and tell their friends, like, yo, you got to get on to Manny Wells. Yeah. So how did y'all book shows initially? Like the first run of shows, right? Because you talk about like if someone wants to sell out a headlining tour, they gotta obviously start with the show. Let's say we do a show, like, how do we actually get booked, or how do we find people that will book us? You do and the team just reached out to the venue, found the emails, or do we know this person at this venue? Where are we at? What size venue makes sense? Okay, can we do 200? All right, let's see, 200, 400. 200. Or I'd be like, yo, boss, can you help me reach out to this person? That's literally how the Jadena tour came about. Mm-hmm. Because it was like um one of my friends was playing my music, he heard it, and um he was like, yo, dope, we got on FaceTime.

Cool. I saw he was going on tour, and I hit up that same friend, like, yo, do you have an email we can reach out? I think I should be on this tour. Sent to Yudu. Yudu reaches out to their management, and they come watch me rehearse, and it was done. Whoa. that part right there, though, you can't overlook that. The come watch me rehearse. Mm-hmm. Manny practiced for that moment. How like we didn't have a tour and we had weekly band practices. We were always prepared. And the other thing is what we packaged to send out, because like, you know, a manager's gonna be like, oh, just reach out to venues. We made it very easy for the venues. We did a so far sounds in New York, and Manny killed it. Like, it was one of the most watched so far's of all time at the time, and it was in like in the top 10 for a while. We knew he could perform, and we found a guitarist who was a beast, and he went and performed and killed it. And we literally just took that YouTube link and then Little Blurb, Manny Wells, Nigerian Immigrant, D&B bass, the next Bob Marley. We want to do a show, right?

So it's like keywords that anybody could look at and understand right away. And then they'd press play on the so far and see hundreds of thousands of views on a YouTube video with a kid they never heard of. They hear his voice and be like, Oh, I think he could play here. He looks like he's got fans on so far. So it was like that step was important. And then for Jadena and them, it was very like, okay, the so far might not be it. We need them to see that he's got like the stage presence. So the call to them was like, hey, we want to go on tour with you, come to our studio and see what that show's gonna look like. Right? That's an invitation that who's gonna turn down free trip to come to a studio and see. And then when he walked in, we made sure like the band was playing loud as hell, and the studio obviously looks and smells good, and there's food, it's welcoming. But when he turned the corner and saw Manny's band, it was like, oh, like this looks like the real deal. So, like, you got to turn that down. And that's hard to turn down because I know the other thousand people who are reaching out to open aren't showing you that. That's crazy, bro.

Dude, I'm just like I'm like, oh shit, bro. I just almost booked him on the spot right now. I know for a tour. I don't have a plan. I'm just like playing a concert after this. No, literally, like I paid Wale 30K. I don't know. We don't have 30, right now. We don't. Don't get any fucking ideas, Manny. Don't let that comb get to your head, man. Oh, damn, that's fire. Yeah. So you you said you were literally doing practice and rehearsals every week just for the chance. Yeah, no shows lined up. Like just for the vision board that had the shows on it. Yeah. That was it. Yeah, also just to be better. Yeah. Like I just can't rely on talent. I've been performing since I was now with my dad. But that's it's a different world. Like his his sound is different. He was the lead singer. I was back up. So I have to have to be the best. Yeah. And that doesn't happen because you're talented. You practice.

Michael Jackson practices, Beyonce practices, Rihanna practices, Kendrick practices. Like any great person Burna boy practices. You know? And so for me, then it was just like, I just have to practice. I'm talented, my voice is unique. Cool. Okay. But nah, boy, Get in the gym. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, man. Just that self-awareness, bro. I think this guy could be the best at whatever the hell he wants to do. Well, yeah. Absolutely. I believe that. but at least just identifying, like, I think this is, you know, just to kind of bring it full circle. Like when you're embarking on like a partnership with someone, right? You being very self-aware as far as like what you do well and what you do. I know. And what you do well. Manny Wells, you do well. This is like, oh, Lord. It's just like going too far. Henry, take it, take it away. Let's go ahead and enter the final segment.

You know what? I'll fucking say it, y'all. Let's wrap this. God dang. Dang. Okay, so this last section. But seriously, Self-awareness is key. Self-awareness is key. That was where that was going. Yes, you could have just said that. It would have been fine. I just did. And now the editor's gonna make it so that's all I said. We'll see how it goes. But this last section is the rapid fire. You're the editor, bro. Can I say my thing? Okay. This is the rapid fire rampage. It's gonna be interesting with uh two people. We're gonna do a little back and forth, but there's three sections essentially. I'll break them down as we go. Starting with just some short answer questions. Just quick short answer. Let's get into it. Yeah, yeah. And like as opposed to how we did with no label, let's do one. I have a plan. Okay. Well, I have a plan. See, he didn't communicate the plan. I don't fucking know the plan, guys. That this is my this is my section. Yeah. Okay. For now. So these first few questions will be for both of y'all. So we'll just start here. On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate Ben as an interviewer? Honestly.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. No, no, it's great. Very, very interactive. Give him a number. One to ten. Eight point five. Good. I had in my head. Good. You had the same thing? Room for growth. Okay. Give us each your number one tip for artists looking to make a living with their music. What is just the one thing? Guiding light you could give them. Do. Damn. Two letters. Just do it. Try it out. Fail. Yeah. Love that. How about you? Fail quick. Fail fast. Fail fast, yeah. Because you learn faster, right? Yeah. What is something really weird that you believe in? Ah. Something strange. Ooh. Something strange, you believe. Yeah. A little unorthodox. But you're pretty sure. But you're pretty sure. But you're pretty sure. I don't I don't think we landed on the moon. Ooh, that's one.

Yeah. That's one. Okay. Cool, moon conspiracy. Yeah. I don't know. How does it go? Your wife is leaving you. Or yeah. I don't even know. How do you top that? Like, I'm just It's hard to top. Oh, you know, is another one? What? What we figured out on tour. What? We never eating real. Oh, no, no. Okay. We need this. So I just want to tell that story. When we were on tour, we were eating. eating, eating. We get to the middle of America. And we're driving past cows and stuff. And for some reason, I don't know if he how he ends up on a video about health and food. And he scares the living shit out of me and everybody on the tour. And Yudu's like, Yudu loves pizza. Until he stopped eating pizza, he's like, yo, wait. we're not eating real meat. We're not eating chicken. It's all fake. Da, da, da. And I'm like, am I gonna die? Like, what am I eating?

I said, I'm not eating pizza no more. I say, you're not eating pizza? He didn't eat pizza for a while. And so that story just freaks me out because like the other day we went to this fast food spot, and I'm like, huh? Like what happened? He's like, yeah, man, I love it now. I'm Like, right, hey. Couldn't keep it up. It's so convenient. Yeah, I don't have a I don't have a strange thing. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, I don't have one. Okay. That was that story was worth it. that moon thing. Yeah. But yeah. There's a lot of people that believe that. Yeah, actually. A lot of people are crazy. So you know. I'm just gonna say it. Who are some unexpected artists in y'all's rotation right now? Who are we listening to that you might not expect? Yeah, going to the going to the Spotify, maybe. God, that's expected. I'm a musician. Nah, that's that's a good one. Throw it out there. Even if it's a little expected, maybe.

Who's going through? But it's a uh Barry Manilow. Barry Manilow. Yeah. But he's but no, um that's a good one. You you answer. I'm about to find this song. Uh who are you listening to? You do? Uh so on the independent tip, uh Kennedy Ryon. Oh, yes. has the most beautiful voice. Did you go to her show recently? It's not unexpected. Well, I don't think people, like I don't think a lot of people know. No, that is unexpected, yeah. So I think that, and then Yo, did you know she was on the podcast? Nah. Yeah, yeah. Long time ago. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Love her. Y'all earlier. Oh, love Kennedy. We love Kennedy. Yeah. So Kennedy. We were just in the studio today. Oh, really? I literally just came from the studio. All right. Go forward. Oh, go forward. Go forward. This this dude with the most soulful voice. Go forward. Wow. So you're on that soul tip right now because Kennedy's got that. Yeah. But he's got them pipes, bro. He's like a white boy. He's like uh white boy with like the most soulful voice I've heard in a long time. If you like white soulful men, uh Wiley from it.

Hey, pause. Anyways. Whoa. Hey, yo. No dude. It wasn't even going there. If you like their music, if you like their music, I mean, nobody just thought that. Well, Some some people did. I have what? Josh Turner. Okay. Thanks for saving me, bro. I got you. Josh Turner. Your Man. It's a country song. Baby, lock them doors and turn them lights. Okay, that's unexpected. Yeah, That is. Yeah. I can see anybody. Yeah. See, gospel was expected, but like that, yeah. I'm happy you said that. Yo, that song is fire. Last one of the short answer. This is called Ideal Audio. You guys are gonna craft the perfect song. You can have any artists, alive or dead, any producers, any engineers in any studio, anything you want, unlimited budget. We're gonna create the perfect song together. Who would you get on this song? Manny Wells. Okay, Bob Marley. And Marvin Gaye.

Ooh. Produced by Manny Wells. Manny Wells. With additional production. With additional production by potentially Kanye. Hmm. And if he wants to invite Timbaland. If he wants to. We don't know how the relationship is right now. If he wants to. Top that you do. Yeah. Top that. But I will say this. Um Jesus. You want Jesus on there? Featuring Jesus, that's one. This is off to a good start. That's how you beat what I just said. Yeah, just say Jesus. Yeah. Um, but nah, I I think from a production standpoint, I would have loved to have seen. I'm going to have to go with somebody who we lost too early.

So I'm gonna say Amy Winehouse. Oh, man. Mm-hmm. If Amy had ever gotten a chance to collide with Kanye, or like Twisted Dark Fantasy Kanye. Mm-hmm. And I'll say, I'll throw Salaam Remy in there just because I feel like that would have took it to the top. And then I think Mike Dean's gotta be in that mix. Like, I just like I'm just out of the session that I would have loved to have been in is like something like that, where it's just like he's putting a synth solo at the end. What the hell's gonna happen? But it's about to be crazy. Yes. And then just because, like I can't do it without not doing it, you'd have to throw Quincy and Michael in that room. He's competing now. He's competing. That's who I studied. Yeah. With the Amy Winehouse, you know, pick, like he's on some soul, like yeah, you know, some soulful shit, bro. Cause like Kennedy reminds me a lot of like Amy, you know what I mean?

It's the vibe. Yeah. So moving on to the this or that section. This one will go back and forth. I'm gonna give you two choices. You just gotta pick one. Here we go. Right. There it is. Starting with Manny? Mm-hmm. Piano or guitar? Guitar. Cats or dogs. Dogs. Sped up version or slowed down version. Slow down. Smooth melodies or thumping bass? Smooth melodies. Ooh-ee or ooh-ah? Wow. This guy. I'm so glad you landed back on Manny for this one. Nice planning. Of course. Um Ooh-ee. Spotify, Apple Music. Spotify. No, no, sorry, Apple Music. Apple? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Party anthem or introspective ballad. Do I have to just answer or ask what it's for? You're not allowed to ask any questions. No further information given. No.

A or P. Introspective ballad. Okay. Highly produced visuals or cool, simple DIY visuals. Highly produced. And finally, for both of you, switch roles or leave the music industry forever. Oh, switch roles. So you're the, so you're an artist now? Switch roles, yeah. I'm the meanest bass player in the world. Let's go. Okay. Switch roles. I like it. you just CEO'd up, bro. For real. I'd like to bug him. Yo, am I crazy or should I change my name and shave my hair? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fire. Oh, man. The final section is the word association. We'll do another back and forth. I'm gonna say one word, and y'all just give me the first word you think of. Right back. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Starting with Manny. Music. Manny. Marketing. Money. Fish. Jesus.

Arena. Money. He goes to money for everything. I fucking love you, bro. We got some interesting ones. It won't be money all the time. It might be. Snapchat. Money. Tim's. New York. California. Sun. And I swear I had this before, but New York. I already had. It's already on. Jay-Z. Ad libs. Future. I have this one too, but I'm just gonna keep it. Future. Bag. Money. Money. I know. I thought it was future. Emoji. IPhone. Purple. Tape. AI. Wow. Lil. John. Looking for. God. Yeah, I kind of did tell him only one word, but I was expecting both. At 24/7.

Let's go. This has been Manny Wells and you do great junior of 24 7 Artists. As always, please like, comment, subscribe if you fuck with this interview. Follow us on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify Podcast. Appreciate you for coming in town, man. Seriously. Thank you, guys. Hopefully this has been as insightful as it was for us because we haven't had this dynamic before, bro. This is a good one. I knew this was gonna be a good one. We're gonna do this dynamic again. I know. Next week. I'm down. Let's do it. Fire. Peace.