Madeline Jackson Interview: Crash Course On Booking Shows

We were talking about Lil Baby earlier at work because he's so professional. If you are professional and you come professional, people are gonna notice. I have turned down shows with huge artists because of the level of unprofessionalism they've had at other venues. Be professional, be on time, take your craft serious. Absolutely monumental moment for the One More Time podcast. We saw y'all in the comments. You said we couldn't get her. You said it. But sitting on the couch right now, welcoming in, it's Adele. I love when I don't know who you're gonna call the guest. It's a good one, right? It's pretty. Is it the hat? Like I don't even know. Yeah. Have you heard her saying though? Beautiful voice. Did you hear my British accent? Yeah. Yeah, it's something mixed with Alabama or I don't know, South Georgia. There we go.

Uh but no, we have Madeline Jackson on the podcast today. And this is like one of its kind. Like this is this is one of a kind. Uh we have not had a guest like Madeline on the podcast. So she is uh most recently the director of event programming at Rival Entertainment. For those that aren't familiar, Rival Entertainment is the operator of three of the most legendary venues here in the city. We got the Center Stage Theater, we got the Loft, we got the vinyl, and they put on some of the most epic festivals. They produced one music fest, which if you didn't see the lineup from last year, like holy shit. Who wasn't on that lineup? I mean, when you have Janet Jackson and Kendrick Lamar, I don't think I even need to name who else was a part of it, but but no, so like you guys have been doing super dope shit and obviously you're you know a big part of the team there. So this is like super cool for our audience because we've had a lot of you know more stereotypical roles on like the creative side and and the music business side. We haven't had someone really on the other side of the table, right, as far as like shows and concerts and like festivals, right? And and events.

Because like uh, you know, live events are arguably in my mind, like some of the most important ways for artists to build like that that true connection with the fan. I mean, you see it at every event that you produce. Like people are either like becoming more in love with an artist that they already know, or like sometimes they're finding out, you know, new artists and and discovering new talent that like they're automatically gonna be a fan for life. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, so all right, for for brief context, like can you just share a little bit about your role like at a high level, right? So director of event programming, like what you know, what is that from a day-to-day look like, you know, for you? Just so our audience has some context when you know, before we get into the conversation. Yeah, absolutely. So I deal with all of the outside promoters that want to do shows. I deal with all of the artists that maybe are not doing a national tour that want to do a one off show that are local. Um, like for example, you know, I have Andre 3000 coming up. That's a direct not rapping. Sorry, he's not rapping, he will be playing the flute.

So when you booked, when you booked him, were you like, yo, like can you drop a few bars, like a 16 or something? Yeah, that's exactly. In my office, he did the whole thing. Now I'm just oh my god. I'm just kidding. But um, I do I work with um promoters, I work with, you know, unlike a talent buyer who works directly with agents and are they typically routing entire tours across the country, generally. Yeah. Um, I work directly to promoter or directly to event planner, directly to artists. Like when I did Sunny Digital at Center Stage, I work directly with Sonny and his team. Um shout out Sonny. Yes, Morton alumni. Alum, baby. Yes. Yes, yes. Um, and uh, you know, a lot of all of our shit like well, I have a show coming up with you guys. Oh, what? She what show is that, man? That's the one more time presents, Suave, Ben Riley, Will Hill, Cam the Artisan. Oh shit. We got sounds by Dos Diaz. We got a hosted by Manny Akeo. From Dirty Glove Bastard? From Dirty Glove Bastard. Oh my god.

Holy shit. This wasn't even supposed to be. It's actually funny how this interview happened now that we are doing a show. Because we talked about this before it was even like us doing an event together. So yeah, so I mean, you know, you kind of alluded to this, but just for context, like an event's happening at one of your venues, right? What are the different ways than uh that a show can even land on your calendar? Right. So obviously, we literally hit you up where, you know, a podcast that wanted to put on a concert, right? So obviously we're going through that route. But like what, you know, what are the various ways that shows even happen? Um, well, definitely that's like a number one way. I would say like a lot of the shows I do are through relationships I've had just from being in the industry a long time. Yeah. You know, I've been in the industry in a professional capacity outside of college, what, for more than 10 years. Um, or almost 10 years, not quite. And then I was doing stuff in college as well. So I've created relationships along the way. And then Center Stage has been around for a long time. So we have a bit of a you know, fan base already.

People can reach out on our website to me. My email's right there. Yeah. Um, so if you take the time to do your research, you can find my email. That doesn't mean I'm gonna book you, but um, you know, there's definitely things that have come across my desk that way. That's how I ended up doing Jid with MTV and Paramount. Cool. Um, was literally just from an inquiry on our website. Whoa. Um, so if you see the MTV unplugged in Atlanta, that is in the loft. I've looked at that with Paramount Pictures. Hell yeah. And it was an MT VM plugged event. Um, and then, you know, we have relationships that have been there before I was there that just we kind of keep rolling, you know. You know, they reach out to me once I was in the position I've created a relationship with them. And so there's promoters like Bo Inc., I work with him at least 50 times a year, and he's been coming to the venue way before I ever worked there. So there's a few, you know, some of it's from us being just the historical venue that we are, and then some of it's from my relationships. And so how does it work? So that's kind of on the um, you know, artist team or like platform wants to book an event. Let's even look at like, you know, venues outside of yours, right?

Or, you know, yours included. When when artists are like going on national tours, right, and they want to do an Atlanta show, how does that like actually happen, right? So is you know, I'm like like high level, how are those deals structured? Because I, you know, if our audience gets the opportunity to ever like go on a national tour and work with an agent or or you know, however that works, like how do those shows happen? Well, I'd say a big part of it is like what's in their market because if they want to do a show in Atlanta and Atlanta is like their lowest grossing market, they may it may be a while before they can do that, you know. So, but if you're marking, if Atlanta's your top market, then it's just a dead given that you're gonna that you're gonna come to Atlanta. I would say like one thing myself and our two talent buyers, Brandon and Joel, do is anytime we get any kind of artist, I mean, even if it's like an agency coming to them, if if it's an artist they're not familiar with, we're gonna always do our research. We're always like asking each other back and forth, like I'm kind of the resident hip-hop girl. Brandon does a little bit of everything because he's been at our venue um for what I think 23 years.

So he's been, yeah, definitely OG in the game for sure. And um, Joel, he he does a little bit of everything too, and he's been in the industry um longer than me, but he he does specialize in like folk americana. So, like if it's something more in those lines, we're always gonna go to him. If it's something more hip-hop and Brandon's not already already familiar, they're gonna usually come to me just because I, you know, love hip hop. You live that life. We all we all tap on each other's specialties for sure. But like how are the deals structured, right? So, like in our case, obviously, and you know, even the people that can reach out to you on your website, it's like venue rental, right? And so you guys, of course, you want as many people at your events as you know as possible, always, because you want to make money off of bar sales or whatever else, you know, that you do. But like, how are like the tours deals structured? It really depends. Every single deal is different. So, you know, there's some that are gonna be door deals. Which means what for our audience that doesn't understand what? So a door deal is essentially where like y'all are splitting the door sales, okay. You know, so there might be some where there's like an artist gets a guarantee.

So, for example, you know, we have a big artist coming up, and I won't name names because I don't want to say specific deals. Andre 3000. We have a big, not Andre actually, but another really big artist that we have in February coming up. And um, they kind of got a guarantee sellout offer because A, we want to get the show. Um Because you guys are competing. Yeah, yeah, we're they're competing. That thank you for putting that out. Yeah, I was gonna say we were talking about this off camera. Like, talk to them about like the competition and like the competitive landscape. Oh my god, there's there's so much competition, you know, obviously. Atlanta's a big market. There's other venues that are the same size as us. Um, like for example, Masquerade almost has the exact same size venues we do. Even though we do very different shows. So I wouldn't say we compete with them a ton, but it does happen, and we definitely compete with Live Nation, as I mentioned frequently. Um and it's not out of the realm of reality for us to lose shows from one another, you know. Um, recently, I think I told you I lost a show to Masquerade. Brandon lost a show to Live Nation.

It happens sometimes, and they lose shows to us all the time as well. You know, I came from Live Nation, so I'm definitely stealing their shows. But so sometimes you're literally just like, fuck this. We're we're assuming a sellout because we want this so bad. Oh, absolutely. Um, I have one client that I work with all the time. He does a lot of shows with me. He's a pretty prevalent promoter, and he bids for shows all the time that Brandon and Joel have. So they will be like it may be where they lose a show, but it still comes to our venue with me. So you know that's a weird web. Yeah. I was like, it is. Whoever can give the best offer. Yeah. That's who gets it. So, you know, sometimes maybe we're not sure about an artist, but maybe another promoter has either wants to get the show, so they're gonna offer them more money, or just is more confident than us that this show can sell, and they'll offer more than us, so then they may get the they may get the show. So, what are the artists looking for typically? Is it just straight up dollars?

The artists aren't looking for anything, the agents are. Okay, so is it are the agents just looking for like best dollar amount, or is it a lot of people? I would say dollars a large part of it. I would say the fact that we are such a historic venue definitely is on our side. And located in, you know, downtown right down midtown, downtown, right there. Exactly. We have a great location. Um, it's easy to get to. Uh also just familiarity, you know. If you've been to our venue a bunch, you're comfortable with our venue, you know, you're maybe more inclined to coming to shows at our venue than a new venue. Yeah. I feel like it's hard to break into the market at a new venue, and it's not really done a lot. I mean, you know, zero mile, live nation, Us, and masquerade kind of monopolize the market of Atlanta. There's not really. Shout out the Eastern. I actually enjoyed the Eastern, it's a pretty new venue. I went to a show there, and she did not seem quite Easter. Why would you do that? I enjoyed my concert experience.

I'm just kidding. I like Eastern too. We don't even have a venue that size. You don't like Eastern. I do. I do. You were like, Ben, who the fuck is your co-host? Like, straight up. I do. I like Eastern. We don't have so we, I can't even, I can't even say they're. They're, you know, they're bigger than us. So they're not really our competition, but it is zero mile. So we do compete with. But what about one of my really good friends? Um, she works at Terminal West. So we're we're friendly with them. I love them. You know, um, one of our promoter ups, she works at Terminal West and Eastern as well as with us. So we're we're friendly for that. Bro, Eastern seemed like a like a trigger or something. And we do shows with them. So one thing's fucking sick. Brandon and Joel do do shows. Like, if we have, if they have the opportunity to do a show from their relationships, and it's you know, slated for a bigger venue than us, we will go outside of our spaces and do shows there too. So we've done shows at Eastern. You'll use the Eastern if you have to, but it's like a it's like a chore.

Obviously, we prefer to keep it in-house. Yeah, for sure. So you well, you know, you kind of mentioned obviously agents play a big role in the live, you know, events and touring space, you know, specifically. Yeah. I know you're not an agent, so if you don't like feel comfortable speaking to this, that's fine. But like, at what stage do artists like how do you get an agent? I feel like our our audience is probably like, I do I need an agent? If so, like how do I get one? Like, yeah. No, they don't need an agent. You don't, I would say like that's something so not to be focused on until it happens naturally. Like, yeah, once you're big enough to to have a manager to potentially have a label, or to have maybe a publishing company that you have some sort of publishing deal with. An agent's just gonna be kind of the next step. Like they'll find you. Before you're big enough to be with an agent, it's you can still do shows. You can still work with local promoters. Local promoters is a great way to do a show. And if you have enough traction, you know, you can go directly to people like myself that book the venue. So you don't have to have an agent to get to where you need to go.

But as you grow, it's necessary. And you know, it's a lot easier to route tours that way because you don't know. Like if you're from Atlanta, you may not know what the best venue to play at in Lexington, Kentucky is, you know, or in New York City, or you know, any of these other markets that you're not familiar with, you may not know the right venue that you want to go to. But if you do know, great, reach out to them. But I will say you have to have your ducks in a row before you're just reaching out. Like people that reach out to me and they're just like, I want to do a show, they don't get it. Okay, cool. Come on, guys. You're not, I'm not gonna respond to professional emails going, please. You know, you need to give as many details as possible and um try to maybe rent the space, not just assume that, like, oh, somebody's gonna want me to open up for them. No, somebody's just gonna not read your email, probably. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you kind of mentioned this with on the opener side, because I have tons of artists always asking me for help when it comes to like getting them on as like local support for a national tour, right? How does that actually work?

Like, if I'm a if I'm a rapper in Atlanta, let's I love this. Please know. I love this. I love pretending I'm a rapper in Atlanta. It's like probably one of my favorite things to do on the podcast. I'm like, you can't. All right. I got bars. I'm in Atlanta. Okay. I don't know, I don't know my rapper name is yet. How have we not come up with my rapper name? Playback Ben. Play back okay, playback Ben. That's my rapper name. That's fine. All right. So I'm playback Ben. I'm like the dopest shit in Atlanta. Calm down. And I want to get on as a local support, like opener for you know a national touring act who's who's routing through Atlanta. How does that actually work in practice? Well, I would say one of two ways. A lot of times openers and people don't realize this, they're on the tour already. Yes. So sometimes we may not have any control over who an opener is. But the next way is to have a good fan base, to be professional and to be tapped in with the bookers. Like, for example, Cam's done multiple shows with us.

I know him personally. And when a show comes up that fits him, now that I've introduced him to our town buyers, they've been using him. So it's very possible that and and you have to be the right fit because I have lots of artists that I know personally, but if they're not the right fit for the show, it doesn't matter that they're my friend. So they have to be the right fit. They have to have, you know, good um numbers on their socials, on you know, other events they've done. There has to be stuff to back up, putting them on a show. Yeah, they got to be able to sell tickets in the market, otherwise, why are they putting you on their show? No, for sure. But so do you have to clear it with the like national tour? Yeah. Okay. So you bring them a cam the artist and they'd be like, hey, got this kid. He's here, he's from Atlanta. Here's here are his numbers, here are his socials, whatever. And they they have to kind of like thumbs up or okay so yeah, because I I never knew if it did actually work through the venue folks. And so it sounds like it does. Unless the tour just doesn't care, but that doesn't happen very often.

Most of the time they want to approve it. Yeah, but but I mean, you you can recommend, and those that happens a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh wow. Okay, yeah. So guys, don't just go spam your fucking like local venues, but it is good to know that like you should hit it two twofold. Like obviously you can try and approach the national touring act and their team, right? Like, or if you know who their agent is, maybe you can do that, I guess, right? But like hitting up the venues and coming professional with like your numbers, why it is that you are a good fit, how many tickets you you know think you can sell, or like how many have you sold at an at another event or whatever, like it can happen that way. That's good to know. Absolutely, absolutely. And and you know, just coming about it professional is the biggest thing. I get people all the time that are just so aggressive. I get so many emails. Oh my god. I'm the one from like put me and just like like a whole run-on sentence. Like, what were you doing when you sent this email?

Like one whole sentence, I want to play at your venue, d-da-da. Like, just use it. Use ChatGPT in 2024. Exactly. Please write me a well thought out, well grammatically correct email. Non-aggressive, non-aggressive email. Tom to send it to send to a venue that I would like to have a concert at. You know what I mean? No, honestly, because I mean shit, even even like stuff that we get in our DMs about like demanding to come on the podcast or like or like that we review their song on our live streams and shit, like it is kind of like fall back, guys. Like we could almost not speak English and just looking at the way that you typed your message, like dent a little bit, like do just try like something. It happens. People and people will some. I have had people like put in an inquiry, send me an email, find my Instagram, send me a message. Then because I don't follow them, I don't see their message. So then they're posting on my page.

Read my DM. Check DM. Check DM. Check DM. Check DM's the worst. Have you ever checked the DM after the check DM message? The comment? I have, but the answer is no. Dude, or if you do, I delete it. Yeah. I'm pissed that you are in my comment section telling me to check DM. I'll take the engagement. Or it's even worse. It's even worse. If somebody says DM me in your com like, fucking DM me. What do you mean? I'm not gonna DM you. That is worse. That's a scam. No, that is those are scammers. Those are scammers. Okay, okay, okay. So we comment money bag emoji uh for free crypto advice. I just paid off $5,000 in debt for 10 homies or like this NFT project is going to the moon. DM me now. Okay, so all right, so so we've kind of talked about like a few different ways that you know shows can actually land like on a venue's calendar. We've talked a little bit about like how artists you know, maybe that are up and coming can find their way, either headlining their own show. Once again, if you feel confident, you can book the venue just like we did, and you know, you can put on a show as long as you're coming correct and professional.

Um, you can hit up you know, support opportunities, etc. But so all right, let's say we book the venue, or like we're we're on a show, right? What are some of the like most creative ways? You know, we were kind of talking about it off camera. Like, what needs to happen to make sure tickets are moving? You know what I mean? Like, when have you seen it work the best, right? Like the best is when the artist posts. Say it again, battle. Say it again. The shows you're on. One more time. Your fans are not gonna find it from the venue if they're your fans. Yes. Post the show. So it's a pro that's a problem. It's a major problem. You see how she knew that was her camera to look into fire. We didn't even have to tell her. Okay. That's a problem. We have all the time. So so what's your like with the shows that you are in direct, like, you know, control over that that are your shows? Like, what's your cause like, you know, guys, we're we're trying to figure out how to best communicate with our artists, right? What's your approach?

Like, are you just saying that? Yeah. Post the fucking show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I will. That's just it, right? Sometimes, yeah. Some yeah. Why do we need to sugarcoat it at this point? Like, post it. Why would you do that? How do you think your fans are gonna fucking find it if you don't post it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a game of, you know, getting in front of eyeballs and eyeballs in 2024 are on social media. Well, and I know creatives think that they have this whole plan and they have to be so artistic. And like I get it, like you know, respect your art, but also like the fans have to find you. If your art just lives in this imaginary place, no one's ever gonna see it. Yeah. We want people to see the art. Yeah. You know? So you have to post. You have to post. You have to post, and you have to post again, then you have to post again, and then you have to post again. Uh so true. That's a clip. Even Wiley from Atlanta, who we were just talking about off camera, like he just uh, you know, finished up his little tour that he set up. Um, and all the shows looked fire.

He sold out multiple, which was incredible. Sold out vinyl. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Shout out to him. Um, even him, who like I feel like he's not the most active on socials. He's not the you know, most like gung-ho content creator. He made some like pretty fucking funny uh tour promotion like content. It was it was amazing, actually. So it's like shout out Taylor, yeah. So just I'm sure she was on his ass until he until he did, but like make it fun, like make it your own, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't have to be post the flyer 10 times, it doesn't have to be do a TikTok dance, yeah. And I feel like he's been doing posting more now that he's been on tour too. Like another thing, too. If you have these opportunities, post them, post about them. Post come on podcasts like this, post about it. You know, there's there's different ways that you can talk about the show without it being mundane and without it crowding people's, you know, socials, uh without their timelines, whatever. I feel like you know, you see something, and the first time you see something, especially us we're scrolling, we may not even ingest it.

It takes us a few times to see something, especially if it's not something we're looking for or checking for before we even realize what we're looking at. Like, you know, I love y'all's new flyer, it looks really, really great. Yes, and I've been seeing it more and more and more, but it's not becoming like I'm seeing the flyer too much. You know what I mean? Like, oh, that remind myself again, this is coming up. I need to make sure I get a ticket for this. There's not, I mean, unless you're just sitting there talking about it all day long, and even then, if you're doing it in creative ways, that may not be a bad thing. If people if people like you and people are fans of you, it's not like if they're if you're if you don't want to see something, you literally just have to go like this. It's not that big a deal. Yeah, you're not bugging people as much as you think you are. It's not annoying. We have the it's my phone. I will move on if I don't, I'm not gonna hate you because you're promoting your show and trying to make something out of yourself and you follow your dreams. I'm not mad at you for that.

Please post about it. And you know what? If you are, you weren't even a fan of it. In the first place, you literally weren't a fucking real fan. You were just a follower that like saw one thing, followed, and didn't actually give a fucking fuck about you. You weren't gonna buy the ticket anyways. Yes. The people that are gonna buy the ticket wanna see you creatively to your point, like with intention, like thinking outside the box. You they want to see you posting this shit, right? Because like they want more people to be there because they want it to be a fucking fun show. Who wants to be in a show that's a 300 cat venue with 10 people? I mean, that would be kind of tight with my favorite artist. Okay, god damn it. You always make that point, you always make those points. You literally do this where like you make the points that I like I agree with, but they're so fucking like the timing of it is so annoying. Oh my god. All right, all right. So and and just last thing too like marketing teams in like huge companies are banking on, you know, have making, you know, like six, seven, eight, ten, fifteen impressions before someone makes a buy. Absolutely.

There's these targets that they have to reach. You know, you see a logo once, you brush it off. You see logo twice, you brush it off. See a logo a third time, you're like, I've seen that logo before. You see it for the sixth time, you're like, maybe what it what is this about? And then it's like 10 times they see you. Maybe they become a buyer. Well, I think artists get hung up too because, like, for example, when they're creating a song, it's their baby, and they're putting all this thought into it. All the social posts you do, you do not have to put that much thought into. You know, like get it out there. I understand you want it to be perfect, but it would be much better if I saw it 10 times and you just put something out there quick and on the fly. Then if you put all this thought into one post that day, you know, like that flops anyways. If that flops anyways, you can always delete it. You can always delete it. You can always delete it. Like, okay, I didn't like how this one performed. Delete it. Let's do another one. You know, and the more you do it, the better you'll become, the better you'll see how stuff performs, but just get it fucking out there. Should we tell the story? Go ahead, man. I think it's me you want me to. I'd like I'd like you to tell it.

Yeah. I'd love, I'd love for you to tell it. So this is an example of deleting something, maybe try we didn't actually even rework it, but we posted a TikTok, and I I apparently tried to post it too quick because it wasn't even done, it wasn't even done editing or bouncing out of my video editing software yet. Like, you know on your computer how it has the little like progress circle. Apparently that wasn't finished. It wasn't it wasn't closed. It wasn't closed. But it still let me send it to my phone and post it. It just cut off halfway. So um it's doing really well though. We're like, oh shit, people are asking for part two because it's like it doesn't finish. I saw a comment that said part two. This is like 10 minutes in, and it had already done like a thousand views or something. It was going crazy. So we're like, oh shit, oh shit, you know, let's take it down and post the whole thing. And we do, and it does, I think a hundred and fifty views in like five hours, like an hour. And we're like, this is uh horrible.

We know this post is better than that. We deleted it again, waited for the next morning. That post is now at 725,000 views. Yeah, and this is literally yesterday. Yesterday, yeah, it's happened yesterday. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so like either delete and just try it again. Maybe it was time of day, maybe it was your caption, whatever the fuck, or like re-edit it, or just try another idea. Like, cause it because if you're not thinking, if you're not overthinking and like overproducing shit, that's when you can you you have the luxury of trying. You know, it's like if you because dude, before she she was running two minutes late. So with our two minutes, we got to literally post or sorry, shoot a piece of content promoting the concert. Because once again, we're trying to drink our own fucking Kool-Aid here. We're telling y'all to promote your music. We're gonna do the same thing and try and creatively promote the event that we're putting on. And like literally took us what? And edited. And edited. Two minutes. Yeah. I mean, okay, five with the edit. But like still. I'm nice. You are nice with it for sure.

But my point being is that if if we post it and it flops, we can delete it. We could Try again. Yep. Doesn't matter. Different title text, different cat. We could start it with a different, you know, the take all the time that you have by not putting too much thought into it and put it, you know, into other things, into you know the analytics and Figure shit out. For sure. So um, all right, so we have the venue, we're you know, we're you know, we're starting to promote it, the show's coming up, whatever. I know we haven't like done this yet for our event. We should we I think we're I think we're overdue for this, so that's probably on me. But what are the interactions that I have with you as the venue leading up to the show? Because like once again, I don't even think our our community might not know the terminology for what you're supposed to be doing, communicating like with the venue and like planning, etc. So, like yeah, what are those interactions called? What are we talking about? Like what what goes into it? Absolutely. So, first step, um, if you're talking to talent buyers is an offer. Okay.

So they send an offer to the agent, the agent either accepts that offer or somebody else's offer, like we talked about. Yep. Um, if it's me, um, we will go under contract. Okay. So we'll we'll come to deal terms, kind of the same as an offer, like what I'm offering you for the venue, very similar. Yep, um, different structure, but very similar concept. Um, once we're under agreement, then we put tickets on sale. Yep. Um, if you have an offer, the the ticket prices will be built into your offer. Yeah, so your offer is based on those ticket sales. If you're doing a show with me, you can set your own ticket prices within reason. Like, I'm gonna guide you to what makes sense for the market for the kind of show you're doing. If I think you're going way too high or way too low, I'll tell you. Yeah. Um 150. Yep. We put it on sale. Um obviously marketing then comes. Um so you're gonna be marketing, we'll be marketing on our social media. It'll go on our website, it goes on Ticketmaster, um, you know, all the traditional trajectories. A lot of times it'll go to radio, maybe local television, maybe billboards kind of depends on the size of the show.

Yep. Um, then we do the production advance. Okay. So you're gonna advance your run of show from like load in to load out. So what does that mean? What does that mean? Like you're you're speaking in fact like a fifth grader. She's yeah, like I know nothing about, I mean, I know like hypothetically. Yeah, like okay. She's like, we're doing a show. You know what these words mean, right? It's like, of course I do. Of course I know what these words mean, Madeline. Okay, but no, so like production advance, run of show. Let's let's break it. Yes. What are we what are we doing? What are we talking about? What does that mean? So run of show is pretty much the flow of from the second you step your foot into the doors until you step your foot out of the door. So first thing is gonna be load in. So that's what time you're trying to get into the building. Yep. Um, then next thing is going to be And and for people that have like equipment, yeah. That means like loading in. Loading in your equipment, exactly. Yeah, it's not just you walking in the door. Like sometimes it can mean like the shit that's coming in there, right? Well, and sometimes they'll be like, maybe you need stage hands, maybe you have a lot of equipment, maybe you're renting Backline. Backline. What's that?

So backline is um instruments or a DJ rig or whatever. Like, for example, I have a a show tomorrow um with the with the Grammys, and there are five performers. So some of them are using shared backline. That way in between these transitions, you're not swapping a whole entire stage of equipment over. They're sharing some of the same backline equipment. So for example, the same DJ is gonna use the same DJ rig for all the sets, even though it may be different DJs. Okay. You know, so we're not switching out drum sets, we're not switching out fucking amps. Ideally, you can't always count on this. Sometimes you'll have artists that they have to have their own thing, but if you're doing a small venue, if you are a low-level artist, do not make it complicated. If it's in a piece of equipment you can use, try to share backline. You want the show to be the most seamless for the fans. Yeah. So if it makes sense to share backline and the equipment is just as good as yours, share backline. Yes. You know now you're not probably gonna have a lot of people that are like sharing guitars or bass.

But that can be pretty easy swapped off the stage. But a lot of time drum kits will be shared. A lot of times DJ rigs will be shared that kind of thing. Did I totally forget to mention that she's a professional member of the recording academy in my intro whoa oh shit. She's like I'm doing this thing for the Grammys. I told you to write that down. I wrote it I literally have it on here and I didn't say it. Sorry. So anyways so yeah we can get into that in a minute but okay so like backline you know all the equipment that you might you know might might need so we're so we're loading in so you're going through like the schedule of the show is called run of show. Yes. Okay, cool. So what else are we doing kind of like leading up to day of show. So um so we're talking about the schedule we're talking about like yes. So you'll send us over the full schedule it will include the load in as we mentioned where you load in all your gear. It will also include the gear being loaded in because we have to know like what kind of maybe we'll need certain cables. Maybe we'll need you can, you know, if you need a wireless mic from us, if you need different things like that, um, we'll have to make sure we have in the room. We can't just like, you know, we have a limited number, like, for example, we have a limited number of wireless mics.

If we have all three of our rooms rented and you need five extras on the fly, we may not be able to provide that for you. How many do you have? Just like I'm asking for a friend, but like how many do you have? We have God, at least maybe 15. Okay. All right, cool. Yeah, we have a decent amount. Um I have one and they're not cheap, so I respect that. Yeah, they are. We might need to bring yours in case we in case some artists, like, oh, I actually want a wireless mic tonight. In case Will Hill throws it off the stage. Yes. Shout out Will Hill. Will Hill throwing mics at the big crit concert on accident. Ah, well. JK, but I did see that. allegedly. Allegedly. Made for hell of a piece of content. They only have 14 now. All right, all right. So I guess we're talking about loading in and equipment. Once you're loaded in all the equipment set up, then you're gonna do sound check. If there's multiple artists, we'll need to know when each artist is sound checking. How important is sound check? It depends on what kind of artist you are. Okay, so like in what scenarios is it super important?

I think it's probably always important if you well, so I mean, different front of house guys are gonna have different mixes, different things. You're gonna want to make sure that it sounds good to you. I would always recommend sound checking, especially if you're a singer or something, you know? Yeah, And bands, right? yeah. All the levels gotta be. Yeah, you gotta make sure everything's right. So like rappers, maybe not as important, but I would say it doesn't hurt to for everyone to sound check. Yeah, yeah, because then you also It doesn't need to be long though. Yeah, exactly. But because then you also don't have like any room for it not being up to your standard. Like in my I like I've done enough shows or like known artists that do have done enough shows of like them bailing on sound check or like sending just their DJ to sound check. And I'm like, what the what is what good does that do? Like just go fucking test the mic for five minutes. Like or you don't want to do sound check, and then you're trying to like pretty much do a sound check while it's like mid show on stage. Like you had that happens?

Yes. Before I do this next song, can I get some more bass? Exactly. Exactly. I turn my vocals up a little bit. Yeah. It happens. Wow. Okay. So that's so the sound check is your opportunity to make any adjustments, make sure you're comfortable. And you know, it just you just it's like a nice little practice run of your face on the stage, you know, running around feeling comfortable. Hopefully you've rehearsed. Well, that's a whole other, you keep it short, good point. Yeah, it's a whole other thing. I was like, hopefully you've rehearsed, but I mean, to your point, at least familiarizing yourself with with the layout, and you know, yeah. If I if I run this way, I'm gonna hit a wall. My left ankle might slide off of this ledge if I am sweaty and I do my baseball bat with the mic, I might let go of it. At least or I should I should aim that way, you know, like just familiar side. Did he hit anybody with it? I'm sure probably someone catch it. It went like kind of off the stage.

It was a big lawsuit. Side stage. It was a big lawsuit in the news. I don't think he hit anybody. I didn't see anybody get hit. No one's pressing charges yet. I saw it on the morning news, actually. There's a big lawsuit. Oh my god, she was pregnant. All right, so so yeah, all right. So, you know, soundcheck and then and then kind of like you've seen so many fucking shows at this point, right? Like, I mean, just how many do you think you've seen? How many shows? Oh my god. Like literally, how many? Probably at least a thousand. Whoa. Maybe. Wow. I haven't always been in live entertainment, but I have been in live entertainment specifically for going on, oh my God, over six years. I was at Live Nation for like four and a half. I was I've been at my current job for almost two and a half. Yeah. Wow. So a little while. Yeah. And then, of course, all the shows that I saw before, I just was the music. Yeah, for sure. But I I even more mean like with a critical eye. So, like, all right, what where do you feel like performers are missing the mark most? Like, what makes professionalism?

Okay, on unprofessionalism. This is a job. Period. It's a job. You came to do a job. If you're being unprofessional, if you're being slack, if you're showing up late. Like it's funny. We were talking about Lil Baby earlier at work because he's so professional. Like when he does shows, like even my boss has commented on how professional he is to work with. You know, he did one music fest in 2022. Um, and I think he we've had him at the venue before too, I believe. Um, but just using that as an example, like if you are professional and you come professional, people are gonna notice. I have turned down shows with huge artists because of the level of unprofessionalism they've had at other venues. If there's a safety concern, like if you were at the backstage door and you're like, I'm trying to bring my gun in no matter what, like why? This is a job. Do you bring a gun to work? No, you can't. I can't bring a gun to work. So there's just like be professional, be on time, take your craft serious. Like, if all if you're trying to do sound check and 12 of your close friends are all smoking blunts on the stage, you're not really taking this as a serious craft.

Now that doesn't mean there's not gonna be some blunt smoke backstage. Sure, sure. But they're gonna be blood smoke backstage. That's it one more time concert. It's still uh still a job, and you need to you need to conduct yourself as such. And this is how you make money. Like one of the biggest ways you can make money is touring. Say it. So this one of the biggest ways you can make money is touring. Let's go. So treat this as a job because you're not gonna make money off streaming. Yeah. I want to say you only make like what is it? If you get a million streams on YouTube, it's like 600 bucks. Yeah. And and number two after touring is merch. And where do you sell merch? At your shows. Boom. So so people are slanging merch then. Yeah. Like it's a real, it's a real It's a real good revenue stream for artists that are touring. Some artists, it's their number one. Like people that have built real brands around their merch. Yeah. Or crushing it. St. John, I love his merch. Yeah. Christian Sex Club. Yes. He's built a whole entire thing outside of his. You know, my my uh my boyfriend's uh a designer too and an artist, and he's built his whole, you know, people, everybody loves his jackets, even if they haven't heard his music.

So it's a really good way to like have a whole other thing that people could be interested in aside from just your music. And like have something else. Yeah. You need to have something else. We talk about this is a recurring theme. Does it feel annoying talking about it this much? I think we just talked about how it's not an hopefully it's not annoying to the people that care. I know. So I'm assuming, you know. You're right. But just I feel like we just repeat those those, those things that are just so important. We say almost every like, we don't even mean to. Like, she said it. Yeah. We didn't even bring it up. But we're gonna get into it a little bit. I know, but it's like, god damn it, Madeline. We're trying to go one episode without saying you need other passions outside of like an interest outside of your music to bring people like into your world. Not this one. Nope. No, we we did we hit it again. It's important. It is it's part of the big package. All right. All right. Sell yourself. What's, um, what's like the best show you've been to recently? Yourself. Ooh, gosh, that's a hard one. Best show.

I've honestly this was you know, it was at one music fest, but T-Pain killed it. He opened for Usher when I was like 10 years old or something, and it was like the best he's the best. He's the greatest. So good. People still think he needs auto-tune. It's wild to me. He really is amazing. What was so good about it? Like in your mind. I just I had never seen him, and I've loved T Pain forever. And he just really, really like from start to finish, put on a good show. And he was an amazing singer. I loved him. I mean, all of one music fest, the whole lineup this year was just next level. But T Pain, that I just definitely remember that show. Yeah. Damn, that's fire. Um, so how could most like up and coming artists, like maybe that are playing at the smaller venue, right? How could most artists improve their live show? Like, you know, where are they missing the mark? I would say rehearsed is a big part of it. Yes.

Like rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse again. It is, it is like a um, you know, it's entertainment. It needs to be more entertaining than just you singing or just you rapping or whatever. It needs to be a show. Like, for example, there an artist we've had a few times, uh, games we play. He doesn't have a lot of music, but he's just an entertainer. So it extends the show because he's like entertaining and funny and like talking to the audience and involving them. Um, another show that I thought did that really well is last, not this past Christmas, last Christmas. I did a show with title. And Tom the Mailman. Oh, love him. Oh my God. and he literally got into the crowd, sat on the floor, and had everybody sit around him while he's singing his song. I sat down. And it was there. Oh, you were there. Amazing. amazing. Like I've wanted to interview Tom, and like we've had someone on the podcast, I won't name his name, Daniel Hartzog, who literally is executive producing his album. They are like locked in, and I've like hit up Dan so many times, being like, bro, like we need Tom.

I there's there's very few people who like I really really want to. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love interviewing all the people we do, but like there are some people. There's like a very select group where I'm like, I want to interview this person. And he lives only in Lawrenceville. Oh, well, you just put on and you know, you just put his location down there, but like old says house. But he's close by. Like, I feel like that's doable. I mean, exactly. Ben also gets more frustrated when he can't make an interview happen. It's we can make that help. I gotta make it happen. Like attack from all friends. Because I feel like everybody get in Tom the Mailman's DS one more time. He's exactly that. Like, he's just such a performer. Yeah, he's an entertainer. I mean, the guy, like the his crowd control was just unfucking believable. I've never like people that were there that I swear probably weren't even like huge Tom the Mailman fans. It might have been like with a friend who was or whatever.

They were doing everything he said. Oh, they were parting the Red Sea. He was like, you know, get like everyone over here on the right and everyone here on the left, and like let's do a battle on who's the loudest, and like let's all sit down and kumbaya on the floor to go. Like just all the shit he was doing, where I was like, this is crazy, everyone's doing what he's saying. Like, this is insane. Like, it felt like cult like almost, but it's like I'm not even like a cult Tom the Mailman fan. Like, I don't listen to his music all the time, but I was just so impressed. And like I couldn't even help but do what he was like asking me to do and like be a part of the experience that he was creating. And so I think that's the biggest gem that that you know you I feel like you've said is that like creating more than just you performing your song or like you singing your song, you rapping your song. Like just gotta be something else. And this is where having those outside interests also come into play. I saw Win at we saw Win at vinyl, and she's you know, she brings a basketball hoop on stage. She's been very interested in basketball, and yeah, she brings a fan on to staits on stage, and he made a shot, so they did a shot together. Little shit like that.

I was like, oh, he made it. Yeah, I was like cheering for the fans. For sure. Little just yeah, there's gotta be there's gotta be more to it. Definitely, definitely. So I feel like you said this in like a written interview I saw online, but I wanted to ask you like who specifically you were maybe talking about. You mentioned that it's so cool for you to be able to see like an artist perform at a small venue and then see them like selling out arenas or headlining festivals, whatever. Who's someone that you maybe remember? I'm sure there's been lots, but like who's who's one in particular that you remember seeing at like a super small venue early on in their career that now is like out of here or like performing arenas, headlining big festivals. Like, is there someone that you remember like specifically? Oh my goodness, there's so many. I saw Cali Ucchi's at um center stage. Like it was not sold out, it was not sold well. And now she can, I mean, she do whatever. Yeah, she did freaking music Midtown, what, 2019, I believe.

Yeah. Um, too, like, we do a lot of underplays. So, like, I did EARTHGANG in vinyl two years ago. And that was like really, really, really cool. Um, and then last year we did Jid in the loft. And Jid, you know, same year, I saw him do Roxy. Yeah. And he's on this like huge tour. Um, who else? God, we we have we do we do a lot, honestly. We've had like we did Drake in the loft, and he shouted it out at his uh arena show. This is before I worked there, but that's like obviously one of our. Yeah, I saw that at Safe Arm. He shouted it out. Shouted it out. That was a cool moment for center stage, yeah. That's fire. Yeah, we've had we've had some good ones. You know, Elton John produced what was his last album. He did it at Center Stage. He weren't at the venue out for like a couple weeks. Really? Yeah. What? Did you get to see Sir Elton? No, I didn't, but our our uh our production manager Kent did.

He he was there, he worked on it. He they made the album there? Yeah. Does that happen a lot? Do artists book not a lot, not a lot, but Elton Center Stage. What was the yeah, what was the liked the space? He lives in Atlanta. Yeah, he lives in Atlanta. You didn't know that? Yeah. I've been to his building. Sir Elton John. Actually, he might have just sold it, but he has like a penthouse loft. Yeah. Let's get him on the pod. Let's fucking go. Let's go. Damn right. All right. I want to get Tom the mailman and Elton John. Like the lineup right there. That's fire. Okay, so um, you know, obviously a lot of our audience is still maybe like in the earlier stages of their career. They're trying to like, you know, get on maybe their first, you know, headlining tour even of their own, like small venues, right? But I do think it's cool to kind of touch on, and I know that like Rival obviously does, you know, produces one music fest, and like you guys do all sorts of I mean, you know, you just launched your new festival, Highball, I think this this past year, right? Um, so like when it comes to a festival, like, you know, if you can throw out numbers, like what's the budget for like a one music fest?

Like how like how many figures are we talking? I mean, millions. Seven, like eight figures. Like, are we talking ten? No, no. Okay. But like high said. More than one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Oh my God. And so, like, when does the planning start? As soon as the last year's over. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So like gates are closed. You maybe take one day to bring it in. Okay. You load out all the structures that you've built, the stages. You go on vacation for three days and then it's back to the grind. Wow. And so then I'm not sure how intimate you have been, but like I'm sure you heard, even if you weren't involved, but like what what are the first things that you start doing when you're planning something so massive like that? Well, you gotta get um, you know, paperwork. So you have to get um all of the right certifications, everything to have the space. Like, where are you having the festival?

Is it the same place you had it last year? Is it a new place? Like permits and shit, even. Yeah, mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I've tried to do an outdoor event even at like like the belt line park and like, you know, because they've yeah, I don't know if y'all have done any events right there in the kind of like field there on the belt line. Um, but there's like permits you have to get. I um we I don't know, we haven't done anything since I've been there, but keep your eyes out for 2024, though. Hey, let's go. So, yeah, so you gotta get the permits, you gotta get all the fucking paperwork squared away. And then what? Then what happens? Uh I mean, you're you know, you're literally, if you're outside, you're building stages from scratch. So you're having to bring in everything, all the sound, all the staging. Wow. You have to have a team to build this. You have to have food trucks, you have to have water. There's like so much water per person, so much food available, so many bathrooms, EMT, you know, like who sets those regulations? Um is that like self-imposed, meaning like we know we need this, or is it like you know, there's regular you know, honestly, it's some of it's legal, some of it's self-imposed just because you don't want what was that fire fest? Oh god left.

You don't want a fire fest situation. No, you don't. The ham and cheese sandwiches or whatever. Thankfully, I am not in charge of all that. Josh and Jess are the ones holding all that down for us. I do hear them talk about it all the time. Jess's steady planning for for this year, making sure everything, you know, runs right for one music fest and everything's set up in the right places and everything flows properly. And you know, every year I think they learn what did work, what didn't work. They've been doing it for a while now, so I think it's a lot more of the what did work, why do we like this so much than what didn't work? What worked last year? I mean, I think last year at one music fest, everything worked. It was the biggest year it's ever been. It looked insane. It was like 60,000, I believe. It looked crazy. Yeah, it was insane. I mean, and also like the most insane lineup. So yeah, that helps. Yeah. So yeah, so do you ever see yourself wanting to get more on that side of the of the business? The logistics, no.

I think I'll always want to be dealing more with talent. Yeah, like I would be interested in booking a festival. Yeah. How different is it, right? From like the offers and everything. Because I've heard shit, rappers flex like quarter million dollar offers for festivals and shit. Like, is it that much more money? I mean, it probably depends on the artist. Okay, but but some people it's just like, you know, some people maybe to be grateful to play. Some people, it's gonna take a lot of money. I know Janet took a lot of money. Yeah. How much money comes out? Come on. Why'd we give that one off? She's not gonna tell us how much Janet Jackson costs. She got half a man, probably at least. Well, I know she costs a lot. Whenever I worked at BMI, she was honored for the BMI RB hip hop awards. And just to be honored, it took a nice chunk of change, not to mention performing, which didn't even happen at that. So how does the lineup come together? Um, I mean, a lot about like who's hot, who's gonna sell tickets, who's gonna bring in the most people. You also have to think about um like who's the fan base of this festival?

Who are we trying to attract? I would say one music fest, it's definitely heavy hip hop RB, but I would say like a crowd more probably in their 30s, you know. Yeah, a little older, huh? A little older, a little more well behaved. Versus fucking Music Midtown is like teeny boppers now, bro. I I lived in in uh Virginia Highlands, like right near Music Midtown, and I feel like the last year before I moved out of Highlands, it was like I was I didn't go to the festival that year, but I like just like to kind of like walk around and people watch, and I was like, how young are who did they're well, how do they get here? Like I was like so confused as to how young the demographic was. Like it was nuts. I mean, so yeah, I feel like One Music Fest is a little bit of an older demographic and competition. Well, I think they do a good job too with just like curating a lineup that really fits that rather than like some of these festivals try to fit so many people into one festival. I can't even have a little bit of each demographic instead of just honing in on one. Yeah, they they seem like they've got a pretty good grasp on like who their customer is, you know what I mean?

Versus, yeah, some of these festivals, I'd be like, well, this is just like a smattering of like random. I mean, like, all of it's good, but it's like who's just spin a wheel? Yeah, how'd we get here? Let's pick a hot pop artist, a hot rock artist, and a hot hip hop and RB and Afro Beat artist. Exactly. Yeah, cover all your bases. So, what are the most common issues that like the festivals run into? You know, like shit that you hear. Well, I would say a big, big big thing for festivals, which is a thing for all venues, but I feel like for festivals especially, is everything has to run on time because there's so many acts. Yeah, you can't afford it. A good example is like 2021, my first year working one music fest. Little Wayne was super late on a Sunday at Centennial. Where it's like there's Nord noise ordinances and all that jazz. Yeah. You gotta pay a ton of money. Yeah, definitely costs making noise past like 11, 11.30.

Exactly. Yeah. So you really you really gotta make sure everything runs on time. It's a big deal. And like, for example, I remember that year, Burnaboy went off. He was supposed to be performing, and it was like a notification, like he wasn't, he was replaced with T.I. Um every I've done a show with Burnaboy before at Buckhead Theater. He was he arrived in the building three hours after he was supposed to be done. Oh my god. Like, so being an artist who's known for being late is like, I mean, he's granted he's huge, so it clearly hasn't stopped him, but like he's known for just being late. Like that's not who you want to be. Yeah, I went to a ghost face killer concert in college, and like literally he didn't go on until like 2 a.m. Like, I was like, how is this? How am I still at this venue? This is insane. Like it was like doors open at eight, show at nine, and he didn't go. And it wasn't like a full lineup. It was that the openers went and then there was just a DJ playing because they were just stalling. They were just stalling.

They were like, oh, his flight. They were literally giving us like fake updates, guaranteed. They're like, oh, his flight's like just touching down. Like Ghostface will be here any minute. And it's like for five hours. We're just in this venue. Like trying to figure out literally, whenever we had Burnaboy at Buckhead, we were all in the office. Like, what are we gonna do? These people are gonna riot. They're already so fucking pissed. They've been here for hours. It's a bougie crowd. Like they are fucking pissed. We were thinking we're gonna have to call the cops because as soon as we tell them the show is canceled, they're gonna riot. And then as we're in the office coming up with a plan, it comes over the radio. He's in the building. Oh my god. Fucking thank God. So then what? He just goes straight. Straight to the stage. Straight to the like you're not even breathing. You were now you're in our grasp. We're putting you on the stage. So what was the crowd's reaction then to him stepping foot on stage? I mean, they were happy. They forget a little bit about the waiting, some of it, but you know, they think we're bullshitting them when really like the venue may be being bullshit. The whole time we're like, oh, his flight got delayed.

Oh, his flight got delayed. Oh, his flight got delayed. Wasn't it coming from Nashville? He fucking could have drove at this point. Like, what he's three hours late. It takes three hours to drive to Nashville. Yeah. So it's just like, you know, sometimes the venue's just doing the best they can. They may only have a part of the information as well. And sometimes flights actually do get fucking delayed. It's true. No, I mean, yeah, like this whole touring business and like routing, you know, you know, when you're a popular artist and you're going from city to city, I mean, like, shit, we all have had our flights delayed. Yeah. You know, so it's like, unless they're flying private, like, they're still subject to the same bullshit that we are. So, like, let's give them a little grace, but like at the same time, like, and more than likely, if your favorite artist hasn't come on stage yet and you're waiting and waiting, it's probably not the venue's fault. Yeah. Right. It's probably the artist's fault. Fair to say. Yeah, for sure. Or or travel. Yeah, for sure.

Well, Madeline, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. Oh shit. Oh shit, Henry. Are we at the final segment? Yeah, we're at the final segment. I'm so excited. I know. That's my favorite part. This is your Henry's. This is Henry's part. This is my bit. Uh it's called the Rapid Fire Rampage. Let's go. Let's go. It's gonna be a three-part segment. Okay. Okay. Um, first is just a few short answer questions. Okay for you. And we'll explain the rest as we go along. Further from there. Yeah, yeah. Starting with sub. What's up? Moving on. He asked you. Yeah, but I always I usually respond to sub with sub too. And then I like don't answer when people ask. That's a weird interaction. It's a weird social thing we do. It's a normal thing now. Yeah. Uh Madeline, describe your dream show. The perfect show. TV show.

Well, you are a concert producer, so like probably concert. Concert. Probably concert, but like you could interpret it as you will. I mean, you could do that. So true. So dream shows and like dream artist. Just the the perfect concert that you could attend. Oh my god. Well, A having an amazing opener. Um it's so important. Yeah, amazing opener. It really sets the tone for the show. Don't have a lot of openers. I would say like one, maybe two openers. You know, or if we have too many. Or one really good opener and then like a DJ, you know, get the crowd nice and hype before, because sometimes openers you may not know the songs. Okay, we okay. We got a DJ. Get a nice little get the crowd hyped. Play some hits. Yeah. Um, and then like a good show, but not too long. Like when you're just watching, I mean, granted, I know you we all want to see our favorite artists and we don't want it to end, but what's the what's the sweet spot? I was like 90 minutes. Oh, okay, yeah. Interesting.

That's a good one. But unless, you know, that's with obviously a headlining show. If you have a show with like multiple artists, it's different because you don't want every artist doing 90 minutes. It's like that. Smaller artists, like 30 minutes max, I think. You know, I think 30 is like is a good time frame. Um yeah, and then closing it out and like having a dope ass meet and greet after. Yeah. If that's the thing. Yeah, I know. You know, stopping by the merch booth, get some merch. Yeah, we got those. Let's go, bro. Um, but yeah, and and even even better if the the artist has a live band with them. I love like instruments. Yeah, like makes it so a live band really, really makes it. But we were but we were cutting costs, so we didn't provide backlogs. But you guys have some good, some good artists that I really enjoy. Yeah, so I'm excited for y'all. Should we do that for sure? Cool. Madeline, if you were an emoji, which emoji would you be? The tongue emoji. Ooh. She thought about that before. Oh, yes.

Yeah, you haven't asked that one in a while. I brought it back. Yeah. Good words. It's got a little pizzazz, you know, a little energy. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. You're uh, we kind of have talked about this all all the time, but I like to ask questions that kind of sum it up so I can make my job easier when I edit clips. Um, give us your top three tips for artists who are looking to start performing. Well, do it for one. You know, get on an open mic. I mean, whatever it takes, I feel like it takes you so long to own in on your craft. So, like the more you can do it, the better. Like, get on as many open mics as you can, then start getting on local shows. Like, there's so many local promoters doing shows. I used to throw shows when I was like in my early 20s, just like any and everywhere. We would have super long lineups, you know. It's not ideal, but the more you can perform the better. Should artists pay to perform? No. Really? I don't think so. You think there's enough opportunities?

I think there's enough opportunities. Yeah. How do you find local promoters? How do how can they find them? Oh, I mean, a being out. Like being out and about networking is a big way to do it. Also going to smaller venues, meeting people who worked at the venue. I mean, if you're at like a really small venue, like Smith's old bar or like um, you know, places that are like like five two nine, these places are looking for small artists, and they also may have promoters already coming to them that are looking to do stuff. So you get relationships with these people, they start to like you, and then they'll be like, Oh, hey, this person needs an artist. Oh, hey, you know, whatever. And also just being friends with your peers. Like, I can't imagine that you're an artist that doesn't know anybody else who's trying to throw shows. Right. You know, like all of my friends when I was throwing shows were like like my own shows, or a lot of them were artists. Yeah. So two more two more tips? That's a good first one. No, the first one. No, the first one was start. Yeah. Thought the whole that whole answer was basically like start, was just no, were there were there three in there?

Yeah. Then the second one was find local promoters. Right. Okay. Mm-hmm. He's asking you for one more. Okay. Um, and this is just, oh, okay, what's another tip? I mean, I guess practice on your own too. The biggest thing is having a good live show because the worst thing is, and like, don't use if it's a shitty venue with shitty sound, use the full song. The full, you know, you don't have to use just the tracks. But if it's a good venue with good sound, fucking say your lyrics. I shouldn't be hearing the lyrics on the song. Like get the just the track without the vocals and do it the right way. Unless it's a shitty venue with shitty sound and they're not gonna fucking hear you anyways, then you won't be able to hear the words. That's a good amendment because we always say the same thing, but we always just maybe it's a shitty venue. Maybe it would sound better. Someone came in our comments saying that. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, if they don't know how to mix it, and your best option for people just to hear the freaking lyrics is just to use the song, use the fucking song. That's sad.

And that makes me that makes me sad. It's true sometimes, though. It's it is what it is. I just mean like what out. I'm just hearing that. Like, what's the fucking point? A good middle ground too is to have a version where the lyrics are in there, but they're turned down a little bit. They can turn them down like a little. And now you're asking to you're doing the most right now, bro. It's the just it's just the same difficulty as making a show track. It's actually easier. There's there's still a point though, because everybody can't get, you know. The other thing is like I feel like we're desensitized because we get to hear artists all the time. We get to go to shows. There's people that do not work in music at all, and seeing you at a little shitty venue is gonna be so exciting for me. Yeah, that's true. Oh, yeah. So connect with your local community, you know, as much as you can because there's these people that aren't desensitized like us and aren't gonna judge you for sucking. They might just like you because, like, oh, they have a cool stage presence. Maybe I didn't like their song, but I still want to get to know them. Yeah. God, we're so just music is ruined for us. I swear.

I understand that before. You can't go to a show without like see how is this thing being produced? Literally. The back line of this fucking concert is terrible. Anyways, Madeline, you could party with any three fictional characters. Who are you partying with? Fictional. Not real. She knows the definition, bro. I'm reinforcing it, Dan. I won't cut your mic over there. People in music that I don't know. Just like fake. Yeah, like from a book, from a TV show, from a movie, you know, whatever. No, your mic's off right now. You're done. Oh my god. Um fictional characters. Holy shit, I don't fucking know. I'm bad at this. Roy Gilmore from Gilmore Girls. Good start. Okay. Um, um, okay. The devil wears Prada. Okay.

So the devil? Yeah, the devil. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She probably, you know, she likes to party somewhere nice. I would imagine. I get the vibes. Um, and then um, oh my god. I don't know. What's the last one? Let's round out this party. Um, hey, Arnold. Hey, bye. Like that. Are you gonna behave? Come on, bro. All right. Um, I love how she said though, about like fictional. She's like, so people in the music industry like fake people in the music industry, bro. Did you catch that? I just turned your mic back on and you're already interrupting me again. Because she was. This is my bit. Should I just should I just drop some fake ass motherfuckers in this industry? That's what she was saying, bro. How'd you not? They're like, whoa, okay. I kind of want to hear those three. We're moving on. You just hired a personal assistant who's with you 24-7. Oh, God.

What would be their main jobs? To sort through all the inquiries I get would definitely be their number one job. Emails, baby. Yeah, take all the meetings I don't want to fucking take. Show them show people around the venue. I do that a lot. Really? Yeah, absolutely. You're a tour guide. Absolutely, I am. Oh. I'm definitely a tour guy. Okay. I'm definitely a tour god. And run my pain in the ass shows. Yeah, I don't want to go to it's their training. Yeah. Yeah. So would we get stuck with your personal assistant for our show? Yeah, no, no, no. This is how it definitely comes. I was like, who would run ours? She's gonna answer all the answers for me. Okay. On that note, um, last one of the short answer. What upcoming concert are you the most excited about? Oh, probably the one more time podcast. Let's go. February ninth. Yes. And then after that, Andre 3000 on the show. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Fair enough. The fact that we have to compete with Andre, though, is just it's a different venue, sort of. Different room, typically. I don't I don't I mean for Madeline's love. True. I don't mean for Yeah, the people that are going to that aren't probably gonna attend our show. And am I? Yeah, yeah, actually. There'd be some overlap. Uh moving on to the this or that portion. I'm gonna give you two choices. Okay. Pick one. Here we go. Rapper! Starting with giant arena or intimate club setting. In an intimate club setting, every time. Rap or RB? Rap. Full band or DJ plus dancers. Full band. I tried to throw in the dancers to make it. Because if you just said D shit, and everyone would say DJ. For sure. Honey mustard or Dijon? Honey mustard. What the fuck? This is my segment. I will meet you again. TikTok or YouTube? TikTok. Morning Grind or Late Night Vibe. Morning Grind. Discover new artists or binge your favorites. Discover new artist.

Pitbull or poodle. Pit bull have one. Her name's Lola. And finally, become a full-time singer or leave the music industry. Full-time singer. Yes. Spot on. You were on one with that. That whole that whole part. There were some new ones in there. Pit bull or poodle. The opposite pea dogs. Anyway. The last part is the word association. Okay. I'm going to say one word. Okay. You just give me the first word right back off the top of your head. There are no correct answers. You are only judged on speed. Okay. Starting with hip hop. Rap. Fire. Ice. Perfume. Ooh, uh, flowers. Library. Book. Fishing. Line. Concert. Promoter. Poison. Apple. Leprechaun. Lucky. Tesla. BMW. Atlanta.

ATL. Pokemon. Pikachu. Microphone. Amp. Lil. Big. Rival. Entertainment. Let's go. This has been Madeline Jackson, your favorite director of event programming. Your favorite professional member of the recording academy. I heard she's put on some fucking hell of a concert. February 9th here in Atlanta, Georgia. So some podcasts are doing that. It's gonna be shit. It's gonna be dope. Buying your tickets. Ticketmaster. Appreciate you uh coming on for real. This has been like a really unique episode for us different for sure. Helpful in a different way. So hopefully y'all picked up some game. We are here each and every week. Please like, comment, subscribe. Until next time, until next time, Henry, what are we doing? What's my name? Henry. We're getting out of here. Until next time, Henry. We're getting out of here. Okay, Henry. Harry. Bye bye. Peace out.