Theron Thomas Interview: 2024 GRAMMY Winner - Songwriter of the Year

First of all, I want you to know I'm here for you. I would prefer to be at home with my wife and children. I am only here, put on clothes, got dressed, took a shower for you. But in the process of doing what you want to do, I want to try to do what you want to do at the biggest level that you've ever done it. How do you feel about that? Legendary moment for the One More Time podcast right now, welcoming in singer, songwriter, record producer, one half of our city. It's Timothy Thomas. No, bro. I'm T Ron Thomas, but I love everybody calls me Timothy. No, he knows this. This is just Timothy? This is not Timothy, bro. It's Theron. I thought we got Tim. No, no. Tim wasn't available. We got Theron. I love it. Let me tell you something. If you're gonna mix me up with anybody in the world, that's the one. Mix me up with my brother, baby.

Yes. Yo, by the way, in St. Thomas, this happens to me all the time. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. I'll be walking down and everybody, you know, so my brother's name is, you know, nobody says Timothy. Everybody say Timo. And so it'd be like, yo, Timo, what you saying? And literally look at me and say, hey Timo, what are you saying? Yo, with Theron. And I'll be like, oh, he's in his hotel room. I'm gonna let him know you say what's up. You play along with it. Yo, I don't care. You mix me up with my brother, bro. It's fine. We're 10 months apart. No, but I literally told you this. I was like, he's gonna think you're serious. Yeah, no. He's gonna think you're gonna do this every episode. So it's not like actually. I am very familiar with who you are. Oh, okay. Don't worry. He was like, I mean, I guess I was texting with Ben, so maybe this other guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. No, I love it. But people do listen, let me tell you something. People do this to me all the time. Oh, wow. They're like, yo, yeah, so so Timo, yo, wait, wait, Theron, no one come out more? You're out.

You're literally. I'm like, I don't know. I gotta, I gotta, that's a conversation I gotta have with him. Yeah. Can you please do the whole interview in your Caribbean? accent? Oh, yeah, come on. Let me do it. Okay, cool. You ain't gonna ask me twice. No, I actually like the floating in between, but back and forth. Yeah, if you could just confuse the shit out of our audience about which voice is actually yours throughout the episode. Yo, So the I just did um uh my manager podcast, the God show. I just do his podcast. Shout out to the God show. Shout out to Ray Daniels, the legend, the goat, the goat and juju. Shout out, Juju. Yeah, you don't know, shout out to the whole squad, but you know, I do the whole thing American. And a lot of the time, and I just say I and a lot of the times I just speak like, you know, American English because I don't want to repeat myself, and because I trying to make clear points, you know what I'm saying? And I don't want him to be like, yo, I just didn't understand what he was saying. Because even okay, trying to speak regular English with my accent is so weird. It just feels like I just feel like I do not disservice to the Virgin Islands, yeah, people from where I'm from.

Now, you know, um like not adding uh slang or terms. from the islands. Yeah, yeah. you know what I'm saying? Like, it gotta be like, yo, hey, what? This wah gwaan, and this is the vibe right there, you know what I'm saying? What we're saying, and if so when I don't talk like that, and I'm speaking like, yeah, so exactly, you know, it just feels like ugh. it just feel weird. It feels like you're doing a thing. Like you're gonna do it. Yeah, I feel like I train really hard. He's trying to get an acting role as an island. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were doing a content series, and I'm actually like really pissed that you stopped doing as of recently, where you would basically go, Woo! Woo! And then you tell everyone what you look like. Well, and so what do you look like today? Because you just said you got your fucking fresh cut. Yeah, I got fresh cut, you know what I'm saying? And I just look like, you know, um 2024 Grammy Winner song, right? That it yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

I'm saying I probably, you know, the first black man to win it in history. You know what I mean? I look like history in the making. I would be. If I win, I would be. You will be. I will be. I look like history in the making. You do. You know what I'm saying? I look like white privilege, but I'm black. I just wanted to say something. Oh, my God. Yo, it's so funny. So I start doing that when I start getting my hair cut. shout out to my barber. His name is Monty. Okay, shout out to Monty. My my mother-in-law introduced me to Monty. I was going to another barber, and she was like, Oh, yeah, you know, you could try this barber up the street that I heard about and take the boys. And I went there, and then one day I came out and I did the haircut thing. Yeah, and my phone went insane. Dude, it's great. It's fucking amazing. And I was like, It's entertaining. Yeah. I was like, wait, y'all like I said, maybe I should do it again. And I started doing it, started doing it. So this is So were you getting a haircut every time? Every single time. Dude, it was like it was like once a week there for a while.

Oh no, no, no. I get haircuts all the time. People are not like us, by the way. That's why I'm wearing a hat. I haven't got my haircut in months. So I just got a haircut today, but you know, because I've been, you know, in St. Thomas when you look scruffy, we don't say ragamuffin. So I've been looking ragamuffin. You don't want to look like ragamuffin. I've been looking ragamuffin, you know what I'm saying? I've been looking very Ragamuffin. And today, I were like, yo, I'm gonna be on camera. I'm about to do this podcast. You know what I'm saying? Let me let me just act like I love myself today. and go get a haircut. Because I like I was telling y'all earlier, this is the first, this is the first break I've took from music in my whole career. Yeah, you're taking a whole month off. Yeah, since this. So I haven't Which is 20 plus years long. Yo, bro. Yeah, like I mean, no, when when did I when did I get in? 2006. Okay. So from 2006, yeah. So never, never one break. You know, don't get me wrong, we've been in place, but I've never not worked, never took a month off, never in life. So, you know, um I promised my wife that I would be like, yo, this December, I'm gonna be home kicking it with her and the kids and doing doing everything that I need to do.

And honestly, this is like the best break ever. And I ain't been doing nothing. I've been re-watching Breaking Bad, my favorite, uh, my favorite show. Fantastic. I've been re-watching Breaking Bad. I'm actually on season three, episode 11. Okay. So, so you know what I mean, shit's getting serious. Is getting serious. I'm surprised he made it. That's why he was late. He was late. He just had to finish an episode. This whole story about his kid and his mother. Breaking bad reruns. Jesus, Theron. Yeah, yes. How we just outed you, bro. Man, you know the vibes. You know the vibes. But yeah, so you alluded to the fact that I probably should have like, I feel like I was gonna do this at the beginning. But let the audience know who this motherfucker is. Nominated for Grammy Songwriter of the Year. I mean, I'm just gonna rattle off. This is this list doesn't even scratch the surface. Beyonce, Rihanna, Miley, Bieber, Usher, Dirk, J. Cole, Lizzo, Future, Nikki, Doja. I mean, half of our City.

I mean, they had their Rock City had your own smashes. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, locked away, man. I'm super proud. Very, very proud of that. Yeah, and and obviously, full circle moment, you guys, you know, just dropped a new project. Yeah, man. This is not a drill. We dropped, we dropped a mixtape. If you are a city fan, you know, me and my brother, it's so funny. We we got huge in St. Thomas, Virgin Islands for being like our music was almost like in the lines of public enemy. Yeah. You know, we used to go at the government and like political. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very like, you know, you know, fuck the government and don't vote. I would never vote for that person. And like, we that's what we would rap about and say stuff like that. Wow. And that's how we became popular. Because we started out as kids and we would do kids' rap. And when we became, and and it used to bother me and my brother because DJs would never play our songs in a club. And we used to be like, yo, bro, why they don't play our music in the club? And um people in the club aren't necessarily trying to hear that. Yeah, we were young.

And as we get older, we weren't cussing our music. Our name used to be to equip. So equip. To equip with me and my brother name. And then we change it to Rock City. And this is Uptown AP, by the way. Oh, yes, sir. Uptown AP, baby. And and I we change it to Rock City and Um Rick Ross. Every day I'm hustling. Yeah. We remake it and we were like, get to a Uptown struggling. Get to a Uptown struggling. And we put her out and we start remaking American music, rapping in our Virgin Islands accent, but saying shit that we went through. Cause we were like, yo, I grew up with my mother and my father. I never been in trouble with the law. We ain't gangsters. We ain't thugs. We start rapping like, yo, how would you feel in your whole damn life and you're living Broke? Mother still got go, you know, your mother still working two, three jobs. You know, that type of shit. We were we were rapping, and the DJs would be like, they would play Rick Ross version, and then they would play our version. Damn. Damn. Transition into the remix. and and that's how we we just become like every we just to the point that people know our remixes in the Virgin Islands more than they know original songs.

Wow. Love that. Like if you play like if you play um Shardy Lowe, they know they know they know in St. Thomas, tun tun, tun tun. Virgin Islands people want here. Middle finger to all our haters. After this one, you're not going to hear. Hello, hello. They know. Yeah. That was your version. Oh, man. Listen. Oh, shit. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fire. Oh my god. All right. So we were talking about this off camera. I want to just kick it off with this. So you have an interesting theory about basically how the internet has taken the power away from ARs. From the music business. From the music business. So, like, let's just maybe rewind and act as if we didn't already have some of this conversation. No, no, no, no. It's okay. Share, share the theory that you were, you know, telling us. I have theories throughout my whole career. And this is a theory that I've been, you know, just watching music because every I've been in rooms and everybody complaining, like, I've been hearing a lot of people say, oh, music now sucks. Music is bad.

And I disagree. And I gonna tell you why. 120,000 songs is released every day. Yeah. Back then, it was just as it was a bunch of artists, and everybody would put their music on CDs or cassettes or digital, however, they would get their music to an AR. And if you ever went to a record label and you go into an AR's office, there would be boxes of CDs of artists all around the world. And A&R's would go through these boxes and find Whitney Houston, um, Chris Cross, whoever, whoever was the artist, whoever, you know, they would find these people in this way. Well, the internet took that power. Nobody ain't sending anything to an AR and say, hey, you know, check out my music. Everything is uploaded, and now you the fan is the AR. Yes. You the fan is at home, and you have to cipher through boxes of music, hundreds of thousands, and it's warehouses of music at this point. Warehouses.

It's so stressful, too. And you don't have the time nor the patience, and you don't want to do it. Or the ear, even. We're not trained for this shit. We just don't know what we even like. But when the A&R's had the power, people complained, and it was like, oh yeah, you guys think you're you guys are in control, y'all are policing what we hear and what you know. We want to make our own choices. Well, it happened. Everybody have their own choices. Everybody have the and by the way, everybody's not complaining about the state of music, but I have been in a lot of rooms lately with my with peers and people who make music who are literally complaining. And again, it's a theory that I still exploring. I don't want to tell people this is what it is, but it really seemed like I feel like we have to get to a place where we let everybody do their job. Meaning, like, yo, let the songwriter write, let the artist sing, let the let the choreographer put the show together, let the producer produce, let the AR, AR, let the president run the company.

And I feel like, you know, let the managers manage. I feel like a lot of people are trying to wear too many hats. Hats, man. Everybody can't wait to say, yo, first of all, I wrote, produced, engineered, mixed, mastered, directed all my videos and did everything for this album. And just so you know, that don't make you better. It don't make you more of a genius. And if the music bad, it actually makes you look stupid. I was like waiting for that punchline. I'm like, Actually, it can hurt you. It's like, we can tell. Yeah. Like that flex was not so much of a flex anymore. That's not a flex. Don't get me wrong. If if if you have a successful career and you killing it and you doing well, doing it your way. I think there are a lot. Yo, I mean, Prince produced and wrote all his own stuff. I mean, Doja Cat writes all our own stuff and sometimes even produces her own stuff.

Like there's artists that are self-contained, and T-Pain wrote and produced. He was a hundred percent. There's artists that, but even them, they have they may have it, they need management. They need a choreographer, they need somebody to put together the stage so you could have a good show. Everybody needs somebody. And you know, I just feel like this whole do-it-yourself mentality comes from the internet mentality. And I feel like that's why musically a lot of people are dropping the ball and the quality is going down because we try and do everything. When we made our album, me and my brother made an album, What Dreams I Made Of with Luke. Even our new album, we didn't produce it. We didn't mix it. Yeah, we wrote our songs. Okay. I mean, we're songwriters. Some artists write all the songs. Yeah, but we didn't A&R it. We didn't pick all the songs.

You know, like Ray and Luke and Socket picked the songs for what Dreams I made of. Benny D, Akon DJ, one of our best friends, he picked the songs for the mixtape. we just recorded songs and sent them to him and he was like fire, fire. Fire. Cool. You know? And D and DJs are a good people to ask because they know what what people react to in a live setting. So they're they they are almost great A&R DJs, man. I think I think we got to get to a place where we are comfortable with allowing people to do their jobs and allowing people to help us to be great. Cause the best, let's go to sports the best basketball players I think get the best coaching. You know like I feel like they're not just good players because yes they're good but they have a great coach that could elevate you know what they're doing. And I and I think we need more of that music. Just to play devil's advocate I think a lot of the problem is um a lot of people you know it's so hard to make money as an artist in this industry.

It's so hard to like find people. they do it to cut costs. Yeah they're doing it because they have no one else to do it and they can maybe watch a few YouTube tutorials and figure out how to you know download Final Cut and edit a video or and do all this shit. Even though it's not gonna you know, it's not what they were born to do. It's not gonna be as good. They're just trying to find, they're just trying to get it done at the end of the day because they don't have someone they can look to. So it's hard for them. I I just still look at that as like, I don't know if it's lazy or if it's you're not a good networker, but in my mind, if you are really dope at what you do best, right? Like your biggest strong suit. I find it super fucking hard to believe that you can't take enough time and energy into finding those team members that that can support you and that will believe in you early on. And even if you even if it's out of necessity, everybody has been to a place of necessity where they have to do certain things. Okay, okay. We started out, and we was like, yo, we don't have an engineer, we have to launch it. I used to engineer myself, I didn't know how to fly hooks, so I had to sing every chorus.

You know, yeah, I heard that. You're saying the chorus like three times? Every, Every time. And the harmonies, yes, That's crazy. I heard that. That's fire. But then came slight success. And then let's bring in an engineer to make the process go. Yo, if you're building a business in order to go up, you have to hire. And I just feel like instead of instead of telling me you just got $380,000 worth of jewelry from Icebox, no offense to Icebox, because I got my wife and some people and some nice things from you. You've got some jewelry. I well, this is from St. Thomas, but yes, it's nothing wrong. But guess what? I have an engineer and I you and I have a mixer, and I pay and I pay them, and I have a person that shoots videos and we pay them. And guess what? The person that shoots the videos, I might have an idea. Hear me out. I might say, yo, bro, I got this idea. Oh, we we shoot a video for a song called Wapa.

And I had an idea. I was like, yo, I want to shoot a video at Thomas Bakery because it's a Virgin Islands bakery in Atlanta, and I just think it's cool. And me and my brother's name is Tyrone and Timothy Thomas from St. Thomas. And this place, it's called Thomas Bakery. That's kind of cool. The girl's like, cool. We got there, and I we just did whatever she said. Yeah. If I'm hiring you and paying you for a job, I'm gonna trust you to do your job. Why are you hiring people to do it yourself? Everybody isn't incompetent. I just think some people just feel like micromanaging makes things better. But micromanaging just makes things way more difficult, makes you seem like an asshole, and it makes the process super hard. Dude, it's so hard for me, bro. This is some shit we were talking about last night. Last night. We just well, I mean, we're just struggling with this too, man. Like, we know we're at a point where the podcast is like, you know, it's seeing enough success that we're like trying to grow and we're trying to turn it into like a serious business. Like start to hire and start to outsource things that we shouldn't be doing day to day.

But it's fucking hard, man. Yeah, it's harder to let that go. You you have things done in a certain way, and then you expect them to be done that way. It can't be done your way, it's you. Yeah, I can't. It's not never gonna be the exact thing. Yo, bro. I got other songwriters that I signed that I'm like, I put on projects like, yo, I'm like, okay, there's no way in hell I can write Ariana Lizzo, Sierra, Lotto, Doja, Usher song that everybody wants me to turn in by Thursday. Yeah, It's not happening. So guess what? I have to trust the people around me. But this is the thing about trust. Before it comes out, you have an opportunity to screen it. I get the final say. This is my business, this is my brand. Mine and our business forever is something that T Ron built. Okay. You're in you're in the band now. Okay, guy. I know that you like to play the bass this way, but when you play the bass with me, you play it this way.

See? That's my fucking point. Where's the line though? But that's my fucking point. Where's the line? Wait. Wait. Wait. Where is the line? The where is the line? It's like, okay, here's some lead way to don't try your way at the live show. Show me, show me the shit that you want to do for me. In rehearsal. In rehearsal. Yeah. Hey, I'm not sure. It's not ready for go time. I'm not sure. Do it my way until we practice it. Okay. Wait, but I got an idea. I want to see your idea. I do. But not in a live fucking show. When the show done, everybody's gone, edit it, episode out. Hey, you had an idea? Show me it. That is better. That is better. Or you could be one of those people where I say, sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. So if you believe, if I think I have an idea to take your podcast from five viewers to a hundred, and I'm like, yo, I got an idea, and you're not listening to me, I'm just gonna fucking do it. And when you see the numbers, you're gonna be like, can you do that again?

Yo, how about this? You're making $10 a day. I'm like, really? No, no, no, no, no. Hell yeah. Yeah. Check out. I have an idea. I have an idea. Not right now, T Ron. I have an idea. In my mind, it's like they should be making $80 a day. I know how to do it. They ain't listening. Fuck it. I just do it. You make $80. Yo, we made $80 today. This is what I've been trying to. I'm sorry. This is what I've been trying to tell y'all for the past. Oh, sometimes you have to do that. Because again, we all get in that place where we know we only know what we know. Everybody only knows what they know. And that's dangerous. I keep hearing him say things that like convinced me I was wrong last night, but then also he's saying some things where I'm like, yeah, Henry, that's true. You see what I'm fucking saying, bro? I'm trying to settle an argument. No, no, no. Live settling argument. Yeah, but it's a balance. It's a it's a great balance.

Listen, first of all, I've been in a group with my brother my whole life. Yeah, I bet That dynamic has to be crazy. It's Borderline toxic, bro. My brother loves me and I love my brother. And I and I am very grateful that the music business didn't turn me and my brother against each other because there were moments in our career where I felt like it could have. Yeah. It could have, you know. And I'm glad that we still like are in awe of each other. Yeah. We still like, yo, you's my favorite person and I love you. He's my brother. But sometimes he was right. Yeah, absolutely. But sometimes I was right. Yes. But sometimes he was right, and we went with my choice, which was wrong. And sometimes I was right, and we went with his choice, which was wrong. But we just have to know as partners, you gotta charge that one to the game, bro. Because we agreed to come into this thing together.

Yes. One band, one sound. Hey, yeah. I don't think what so no, me and my brother have a good thing that we do. Our team, even Ray, Ray will say, Taran, I think what you're doing is a bad idea. I think this is not the way to go. I am I am going to walk into the fire with you. But I'm saying this is wrong. Yeah. Cool. I want to go with my idea. Hey, if it works out, I but if it doesn't, I told you I don't think it's right. But one ban, one sound. Yeah. And and I just feel like in a partnership, you just have to know when to give and take. And I as a person that I don't enjoy, I don't enjoy fighting, not to get dipped deep, but I don't enjoy fighting over things that I deem not important. And I feel like the business and the money and all of that. Yes, it's important because we want to take care of our family, but the relationship is more important to me.

And and by the way, this is a newfound idea that I got since I lost my dad. Because then I'm kind of like, bro, none of this shit matters to me. Like what I'm like, wait, what's the issue? Tyrone, you did cool. You won. Let's do it that way. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, what if something happens to you? I don't want our last encounter to be arguing over some money. Some money or credits, placements, whatever the fuck. The lighting in the camera. Oh, yeah. Yeah, true. I forgot. Because because the small you don't understand. Small things can turn into the biggest fucking things just because of ego. Yeah. And I try, you know, I try to, I try to, every morning I wake up and I and I try to get rid of my ego before I leave the house. I always tell people, humble pie is something that everybody has to eat. By the way, humble pie is gross. Let's just, let's just, humble pie Humble pie is fucking nasty.

No shit. Never had a slice that I liked. Yep. But a little bit of humble pie every day would keep you out of karma's way for the rest of your life. Yes. That's a bar. But it's got right sides. He's a writer. writer. Yeah. But hear me out. Now, if you don't take that little bit of humble pie, one day, a motherfucker's gonna come with a whole pie, shove it down your throat and make you eat it all. And it's gonna kick. Oh, it's the by the way, it's the whatever you could think is the worst tasting thing on earth, humble pie tastes worse. So I tell everybody, get up every day and take a slice of a little piece of humble pie that can last you forever, or wait to eat a whole humble pie, shoved down your throat. So I choose to get up every day. Bro, and it's it's hard. It's like it's hard like working out. It's hard like choosing to read a book over watching a fucking TV show.

It's hard, it's hard. It bro, I get up some days and I'm like, yo, bro, but I'm me though. I get, I would look in the mirror and be like, you did this, you got these hits, you did this. Look at what you provide for your family, bro. You should be way fuck these niggas. And then I'm like, that's how so many people that you love and respect fell off. You know what, Tyrone? Go take that piece of humble pie, put it in your mouth, walk out and be like, all right, brother, we're gonna keep working and we're gonna figure it out. Because I used to, um, my last job, nine to five, I used to work at Party City, hated it, hated it, probably like like two people that I worked with, but for the most part, did you fill up balloons? Yeah, fill up balloons, found costumes, and hated, hated, not party city the company. I hated my job. And I was like, I showed up every day because I had a kid and I had to do it. And I didn't love it, but I know I had to do it.

Now I'm doing something that I love, that I would that I did for money or not, making a shitload of money to do it. I'm like, what's there to complain about? This guy tried to fuck me on the publishing. Ha ha. Did he did he get did he fuck me on the publishing? No, he tried. Not even mad. Shoot your shot, brother. You just me and you could have had a relationship for the next 10 years, but you showed me that you're a piece of shit, and now you lost me as a friend and probably even a collaborator. And now we worked on one song. You try to fuck me, and I'll never work with you again. Nice knowing you. And that's the end. Move on with your day. Move on. Yo, bro, yo, bro, this is so crazy what I'm about to say. I always say, Kobe Bryant passed in a southern helicopter crash. And I saw it, and I was like, what the f that's crazy.

And I posted it like, wow, life is so short. And I put my phone down and went back to finish making my sandwich. His wife couldn't eat or breathe for a month. And if, and if, and if you don't feel that way about the person, why are you stressed? Yeah. Yo, bro, like if if you're not, if your day doesn't end if they passed, why are you mad at them that you're not even mad at them? You're mad at something going on in your own life and they're just the straw that broke the camel's back. But I'm not gonna let another motherfucker be my straw. I'm my own straw. The health and well-being of your friends and family. It's like literally almost nothing else matters when you got that covered. You got that covered. It's, It's really who cares about anything. Nothing mattered. We're specs on a planet that's another spec in the universe. Yeah. So crazy. So you mentioned this Quincy Jones quote about leave your art on the wall. I love it.

And give the people what they want. And I need you to, did you even have you heard this quote before? Because if not, I read it in the notes for this. Okay. Yes. Because like I hadn't heard it before. Because you you, I just want you to explain what, what what does what did he mean when he said that? You can make music your way only for you as a busker. You can make it for free and not get paid. You can make your music and ride around to it in the car. Most artists who's like, it's just it's all about the art. You're full of shit. You want to get paid, you want to sell out arenas, and you want people to show up to see you. So guess what? No matter what you make is your art, you think I'm going in the studio and not doing something that I personally like, I'm just trying to make the best version of it. So again, I am thinking about my consumer alongside while I'm making it now. Now, here it is. Does my consumer do I am I in the studio thinking about my consumer to the point that where they alter my art or they stop me from making music? That's the thing.

No, I don't know what you're gonna like, bro. I'm excited. Are you making your song as TikTokable as possible? Some days I am. What's wrong Boom. Boom, baby. songwriter of the year? Fucking nominee He said it. Let's go. Yeah, guess what? Some days I you know why? You know why? You think you think some days LeBron James doesn't want to score the most points ever? He does. Okay. TikTok's how you score the most points ever in the game of fucking music. now. Bro, Some days, some days. And guess what? Some days, some days I just want. Some days I'm like, yo, bro, and I've written songs that emotionally move me, and I haven't been able. I haven't been able to sell them. I don't know the artists to sing them. Who's gonna sing it? Who's gonna cut it? Who's gonna put it out? So guess what I'm doing? Riding around to it in my car. It's my art, and I love it. But guess what? My art isn't Lizzo's art.

My art isn't Doja's art. How can you get in the studio and be like, I'm making music? I'm making music for T Ron, but this is what I want to do. Then make your own fucking music. You don't care about what I yo. So I go in the studio and I'd be like, what do you want? Oh, that's what you want. Well, let's try to cater to you and give you what you want. But also, you're in a business. Every artist wants someone to invest, not just time, money into them. Majority of the artists have not spent their own money to break themselves. Majority. Not saying every artist, not some artists, they really went out there, did it all on their own. Shout out to y'all. Respect to y'all. Awesome. But those investors want a return, obviously, on their money. And you took the fucking money. Yeah. If you take it, yeah, you're kind of signing up for that. That's the thing. Okay, but let me bring up what we talked about. We had an internal podcast today. Just me and Ben.

Let's chop it up. it up. I love it. We were talking about a clip of Rick Rubin, who was talking about his new book he's coming out with. Yep. He says the audience comes last. They do. But see, that seems like Yeah, it sounds like a paradox. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, the audience come last, but that don't mean he don't think about the audience. So you telling me Rick Rubin doesn't didn't want his records to be big. Rick Rubin, one of the biggest producers in the world, was going in the studio saying, I don't want any hits. I don't care about hits. It seems like he I'm just gonna make a song. No, my yo, bro. Rick Rubin, I don't know you. I would love to, I love to meet you. There's no there's no creative. Who is the big Quincy Jones, Rick Rubin, Dr. Dre. There's no way they didn't make a song like this shit is gonna be huge. I feel good about it.

I feel good about it. I think it's gonna be big. I love it. I'm so excited. It makes me feel good. So I think I'm gonna fucking move the world. There's no way you're telling me. And guess what? Right now, in my business, to all the creators, the world is on fucking TikTok. Yeah. So moving TikTok, you think moving TikTok is bad? Hey, bruh, 21 Savage, his song is gonna break on TikTok. Hey, bruh, Adele's gonna be on TikTok. I'm not saying Adele has to go on TikTok and do a video like, hello. She doesn't have to do that. I'm not saying she does. She should. That'd be funny. No, That'd be fucking funny. Guess what? I'm not saying that she does. But the way people consume music and the way that they interact with our gift, with our art, is different. And guess what? It's TikTok now. Yes. But in 10 years, it's gonna be another thing. Yep.

It's constantly changing. The world is constantly changing. The internet and technology is making everything move fast. So, bro, remember when Facebook was the end all be all? Yeah. And then Insta and then Twitter and then and then Instagram and then Snapchat and then shit. If your music was popping on MySpace, you would remember that? Come on. So so so I I'm just saying because somebody was like, somebody commented under and was like, I don't agree with the leave your art on the wall. And I'm like, listen, if you if music is a hobby, if you're like, yo, bro, I go to work every day, but I make some music in the basement and I have a good time. And this is something that I love to do. And oh shit, I made a hit. I didn't even care. I just this is just something. But if this is your job, your job. Yo, bro, I promise you everybody in the NBA doesn't like some of the politics that come with it.

But even in the NBA, LeBron James might be like, I wanna dunk it. Pass the fucking ball and let him shoot. Yeah. Yo, bro. So guess what? If you want to play street ball, you can play street ball. But if you want to play in the NBA, they got rules. You want to play in the NFL? You want to play in the music business, you want to sign the Interscope, Universal, Dev Jam? They got rules. Again, if you want, if you want to sign to your own label and build it all on yourself, do it however you want. And no one should be able to tell you anything. And guess what? You don't give a fuck. You're like, bro, I don't care what anybody says. I don't care if the fans show up, they don't show up. This is what I want to do. Yeah. Cool. But the minute you're like, this is my job, yo. I promise you, Louis Vuitton thinks some of those shirts are ugly. But they know they're gonna sell. They're like, bro, we gotta make things for them too. Yeah.

Yeah. You gotta think on the consumer if you're making things for consumption. If you're not, then cool. But if you're making things for consumption, you have to. Even if it's a little bit, you gotta think on a consumer. So I'm sorry, guys. Yeah. TikTok it up, baby. The whole art versus meets business thing is just always so crazy. Yeah. How they just interact. You know, there's so many like things that don't seem to line up, but like if you want to make art your business, you have to line them up. And I'm just tough. And I do think that like sometimes Rick Rubin does come across as like, I don't know, he comes across too much like a white like a wizard. Yeah, like just too much of a he's not thinking about some of these things that Saron alleges that he probably is, at least to some degree. I love Rick Rubin, but Rick Rubin also was the same person that made Run DMC cut walk this way, and they hated it, thought it was gonna be bad for the career, and Rick Rubin was like, no, this is gonna change your life. It was like the first rap rock crossover, yeah.

And now you see it all the time. But that's he didn't just do that out of the like, this is just like this is just something I want to do. No, this is gonna be big. And Russell Simmons got Def Jam, and we need to make some motherfucking money. Exactly, bro. That's my point, man. And I think you know, our our platform is for people who are trying to make careers or are making careers and trying to elevate their careers. So I think this is why I wanted you to speak on it, because we do have some people that come into like our live streams or like our comment section, and they're really talking crazy about like basically the other side of the spectrum, which is the hobbyist. But the sign. No, both sides need to coexist. Too much business makes sucky music. True. Too much art is sucky music too. So yeah. I'm sorry, bro. Too much business is like, you're like, bro, this is corny as fuck. Just another Marvel movie. Yeah, we've seen this.

You're like, come on. You hate Marvel. Like, okay, sorry. It's just a good analogy. Well, they just shit out the same movie every time. Because it's gonna make X dollars at least, but no one really cares about that movie. No, everybody cared about everybody cared about Marvel until Iron Man died, and then no, no, no, no, no, no. And then, and then, and uh, because I I don't know the CEO for Disney, but I want to meet him really bad because I know he doesn't he probably doesn't care what I say, but I want to meet him because I want to tell him I know what the issue is. You know what I mean? First of all, they're making movies too fast because they're trying to keep up, and I'm like, bro, take your time. That's what they did before. Make the consumer wait, you know, make us wait like for the new Jordans. I promise you, we'll wait in a line. Like, you know, like uh what I like Supreme, the the way that they branded themselves as a brand. Like, I think Disney should brand themselves like that. They should be like, hey, we know that you guys can't wait for the new Little Mermaid, whatever the new princess is. That'll be a petcha fake and crab.

That'd be that'll be here in 2029. Oh, don't do it to us. Disney. No, no, no. And your GTA 6. No, but they have, but bro, but they got Disney Plus and they're giving up, bro. They're giving us TV shows. They're giving us con they overgave us content to you give somebody too much of something, they don't appreciate it. We just talked about that yesterday, too. Because we have a we had a bunch of fucking artists in our studio who like are anti-content. Like they like don't like making content. They're not the best at like creating a bunch and posting a bunch and you know doing the whole content thing. And they said like the same argument of like, well, it tarnishes the brand, it makes people not, you know. That's not true. No one wants to see us every day. And I was like, bro, your fans want to see you every day. That's fucking that's bullshit. Okay. So yeah, do you agree or disagree with that? New artists, you don't have fans, and nobody gives a fuck. So you gotta, so you gotta, you gotta post every day and keep talking and keep engaging until you have a fan base. Drake, he could take a break.

Yeah, not that bro. I'm a big Drake fan. This is a big thing. He doesn't take a break. But this is not me saying I want Drake to take a break. But Drake could take a break. How about this? Rihanna has been on a break, and we are all excited. Everybody, non-Rihanna fans are excited, even if they're like, she's gonna break. But guess what? At least you want to see what's gonna happen. Anticipating. We're anticipating something. So my thing is when you make a name for yourself, it's okay to be like, I'm gonna keep them guessing. Because guess what? Only you know what you got coming. Yeah. I'm not in the studio when, bro, I didn't know Nicki Minaj had this album about to drop. I didn't hear it. Nikki knew. She was like, ha ha ha ha. Yo. Number one, baby. We don't finna kill everybody. She's like, oh, y'all ain't know what I got in the chamber. And that's what I'm saying. So it's okay when you build a name for yourself. It's okay.

That's another thing. I think people are letting the internet rush them. You know what I mean? Because they're on the internet and they're like, yo. 21 Savage is dropping. Oh man, I gotta get my album together. Bro, bro, bro, bro, bro. Every it's okay. When your time comes, you do it the right way, and you won't have to do it again. You know what I'm saying? So I just feel like everybody gotta run their race. I think the internet is a racetra where you can see all the other runners. So nobody is in their lane. I'm interrupting this podcast with a very special announcement. February 9th, here in Atlanta, Georgia, at the center stage vinyl. We are putting on our very first concert experience featuring headliners Suave and Ben Riley with support by Will Hill and Cam the Artisan. DJ set by Dos Diaz, hosted by Manny Akeo, all six of which we've interviewed on this podcast. Tickets are available now at omtpresents.com.

Go cop yours today. And now back to the episode. I want to get back to someone like the songwriting side of things. Let's go see, because you know, we got the songwriter of the year nominee right here. Let us do it. Hello. So we've talked about this with ARs, right? And I feel like, you know, someone from the songwriting side of things, we haven't really had this conversation. So, like, uh, are there common elements that every hit record has? Like, is there a recipe for hit records? I I think so. And and what, you know, if you What's the sauce? Yeah, I was like, come on, bro. Um what's you know? It's gonna be difficult to just explain it and give it to you, but you know, I I mean I feel like math goes into it. Like my, you know, syllables matter. Um, like, let me try to think. I I said this on another show, but let me use a song like you make me feel like I'm living a tea nage dream, the way you turn me on this thing. I don't know, the rest words.

And then it don't ever look back, don't ever look back. My heart stops when you look at you realize that they're both mathematically synced together. The first half there's a pattern, and people don't realize that. And then melody is the most important part of this of a song. Melody's the most you don't need words more than you need melody. Um blue, da dumd, mm-da. What does the fox say? Melody is more important than words. Baby shirt, baby junk do melody is the most important thing in any song. That's why, as big as hip hop is, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes certain rap songs can't penetrate certain markets because these places don't speak English. And if there's no melody to gravitate towards, the people can't really speak. Melody is a universal, universal, you know, we went we performed in Colombia and we're performing in Colombia, and I remember singing Locked Away and people singing all the words and got off stage and they didn't speak English.

That's crazy. And I'm like, yo, bro, you was just singing Locked Away, and they were like, uh, I love that. No I bless no hablace. No habla Inglés. And it was like, whoa. And that's how important melody. So I think, but in songwriting, the formula to me is melody first, you know, then let's go with the math and making sure things match to make a to make a hit record, right? And then you got a concept. The concept is like, what is this song about? And how does it affect other people? Most of the times, a concept is a personal experience or something that you've seen, the writer, the the person, the creator. It's something that I've seen or and there's nothing really new under the sun. You know what I mean? Like if I create and you know, shoddy's like a melody in my head that I can't keep out. Got me singing out. I was so happy when I found out that you did everybody wrote on that. So happy. So so that was a moment for me, bro. Oh man, I love that song. You know what I mean? That song changed our life.

I'm sure. And and and if you think on that, you know, it's like, man, you know, it's it was a new take on this is uh this is a love song. This girl is like, I can't get out of my head. It's like, you know what I'm saying? And like she's just like this thing, constantly going. But yeah, but but like, you know, we'd all heard that idea a thousand times before that. It it and and it's it and it's in a new way. And it it's not necessarily new, the words are changed around. So let's go with concept. Something that the people can relate to because again, the melody is first. If you got a great melody, you might have a shitty concept that you might have a song that's not about nothing. It might just be baby shark. It's like it, yo, it's nothing. It's it's not a song, it's about whatever it's about, but that melody, you know, I like to move it, move it. You like the oh my god, it's like, bro, it just it just makes me feel good. You know what I'm saying?

Who let the dogs out? Yeah, it just what is that about? Did someone's dogs actually get out of the room? You know, you know something that you know something that killed me. I found out that uh very literal macarena is not a Spanish word, it's the name of the dance, so it's means nothing, it's not like a Spanish word. Hey, macarina, uh you know. You don't know the words, but you know the melody. You know, so that's why melodies, that's why the melody saying that's why the melody is number one. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then and then, like I said, then we go in and then we're moving into, like I said, the concept, you know what I mean? Because again, if you have a good melody, because the perfect song is the perfect melody. The perfect concept that relates to the most people, and the perfect lyric. And those things don't always happen. Those things don't always happen.

You don't always nail those, but sometimes the perfect melody is enough. You know what I mean? So, you know what I mean? Sometimes, and there's a couple songs that break the rules. Like I always say, um, usually I write the hook first every time I write a song. So going back so with the formula, I always say the hook is the most important part. Starting number one, gotta get a good melody. If you got a great melody, you could get away with almost anything. Yeah, almost anything. You could be like, does okay. Does anybody know what seal kiss from a rose is about? No, I don't either. Okay. I don't know. I and I read the lyrics. Um, I met Seal at Record Plant. I don't rem, I don't know if he remembers this, and I said, Oh my God, yo, seal. Yo, I'm from St. Thomas, bro. Kiss from a rose in a Batman soundtrack, one of my favorite songs. What is that song about?

He said, you know, funny thing, that song. Um, it's not really about too much of anything, maybe. You know? And I was like, what? It's up for interpretation. But wasn't, but the melody was great. Does anybody know when doves cry? Do you know what that means? I don't know what it means. I mean, this is what it sounds like when doves cry. I know that song. It's a pretty song. Does anybody know what Purple Rain actually is? It's incredible, isn't it though? You understand what I'm saying? That's the power of melody. You know what I mean? And then sometimes you have a great concept that the whole world can relate to. And uh we'll always love you. It's like, yeah, man, I would like to. Those are good words. Girl, you're amazing. Just the way you are. You know, sometimes, sometimes you got a good melody and you got good words.

And that's great. You know what I mean? But I say the formula, hey man, melody, concept, that math, and lyrics. And I'm getting kind of jealous over here as a producer. Where's the beat come into play? Are there beats that are more hit worthy than other beats? The drums, the grooves. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be honest. I don't like where this is going. Production and beats are different. Okay. They're two different things. Sure. Producers, I think, are the most important part of the song because they gotta see the way through. That means you gotta know like Quincy Jones needed to know Michael Jackson, you gotta recut that two more times. That's not the best take. We gotta make sure that the mix is good and the the drums are good and the trumpet is that's different. Beats not so much. I you know, it's seldom I you know, have you ever seen anybody sing along a beat? I I would say it probably is if the melody is in the beat.

If there's a good melody, yeah, it's a good melody, but not like but aren't they dancing to the groove of the beat? Yeah, they are. And and and and by the way, I'm not saying that a produ a beat isn't important. I'm saying the two most important things to me are the producer and the writer. Yeah, you know what I mean? The beat, yo, what I'm about to say, I'm gonna get so much flack, they're gonna go crazy. But I wanna say, like, the beat might be the last. It I think it's the producer, the writer, the engineer, and the beat and the beat. Wow. Even engineer overbeat more important than it's like. Yo, yo, bro. Need a good mix. It's gotta hit in the club. You gotta you got it got a hit in the world, it gotta hit in an arena. Yeah, yo, I'm I can you could listen, bro. A good engineer knows that his song has to play in a stadium in an arena, in a like it the mix has to fit everywhere. Nothing worse than hearing your song in a place with another song and realizing, yeah, my song don't hit like that. I bet I bet you never done a fucking arena test on your mixes, have you?

Well, someone commented we come we did a clip about the phone test being important now because everyone listens to music and phones, yeah. And we got a comment. The guy was like, Well, the club test and you know, and the venue test is so important. And I, you know, we had to just be like, we don't all have just venues. We can pull up and test every song. But I was kind of like, damn, that's actually low. No, no, that's actually. And I think I think your point also shouldn't be like, shouldn't make beat makers sad. I think it should free you guys up, maybe to not be overthinking your beats so much. Yeah, that's no no no. Oh man, for yo, this is not saying that a beat maker isn't important because you can't put out a you can't put out a song without a beat. I you listen, you can't make a kid without two parents. You know what I'm saying? You can't, you know what I mean? With without an egg and a you know, a spur. You need both things. So you can't put, you know, I you're not dropping an a cappella song, and you're not dropping an instrumental. You know what I mean? And the only person, the only instrumentals that I know are super big. I know Kenny G was super popular in my house.

I can't speak for anybody else, but you know, it wasn't those songs on them beats, and my mama would play Kenny Gary. My mama loved Kenny G, you know. So I I would say for the most part, it everybody is important, but you guys are asking me the formula to a hit. Yeah, what is the most necessary? What's the most important? And I'm telling you, okay, a great beat can't fix a terrible song. Yeah, but a great song can fix a terrible beat. You guys, yeah, you understand what I'm saying? Like, you can be like, you can literally say, Tyrone's beat sucks, bro. I don't like this beat. This beat ain't good. And I'm like, well, watch this, watch this. Oh, shit. I like the beat. If I write a song and then play it for you, and you're like, yo, bro, no lie. This song with this track, this is crazy.

Yeah. But this beat, best beat I've ever heard in my life. Wrote a song, shitty song. You're like, that's not it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want that. You know, so so so that's that's what I'm saying. But the song, the song doesn't get to the end without the producer. So I do think producers and songwriters are super important. Like, I feel like producers and songwriters are neck and neck because a producer can't take a wax song to the top. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So a songwriter, we gotta come in, we gotta make the producer's job easy and give them a great song to take to the end. But if you write a hit and it's not produced well, it's also not gonna work. It could, yeah. It could you uh an a non-produced great song could be fucked. Like, I mean, think on songs that weren't hits that got redone that were hits. That shows, yo, the song was always good.

They probably did a bad version of it, but this version shows the true potential of what the song really was. Or maybe the song, because I think timing matters, you know what I mean? The world wasn't ready for it. Yeah, no, no, no. I I yo, what's the song that you be running up that hill? Yeah, yeah, bro. Yo, I mean, that song had a moment in this generation with a show that everybody watched and became a huge hit. And it wasn't that huge of a hit when it released at the time. But it just was it a bad song when it came out? Maybe it just didn't fit, maybe it just wasn't it couldn't, it it it wasn't the time for it. It couldn't penetrate that moment, yeah, but it penetrated, it penetrated our generation, and it was like, yo, this shit is crazy. It was ahead of its time, maybe. And and I and I do believe that. I do believe artists could be ahead of their time. It's like, and again, it's art. Like, I do believe that you can put out music, die, people can discover it and realize.

I mean That's what happens with every painter. They're not famous until they die. Yo, not only that, let's be real. Bob Marley didn't become like in America, the Bob Marley that everybody's like one of the greatest, you know, until after he passed. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like after he passed was when everybody they did Bob Marley Legend is a is uh greatest hits. Yeah, collection. It's a collection of the, and then he but you know, but it was after he passed. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So those songs existed, they were always around, they were big around the world. And then as time went along and people discovered them, they realized, yo, we were sleeping on this shit. This been this has been here this whole time. You know what I'm saying? So that's you know, so I just feel like you know, timing is everything. It really is. For sure. So, you know, you've you've spoken on the record about like Dr.

Luke, obviously, you know, helping you drastically improve as a songwriter. Yes, right. And so, like, what what what actually happened? Like, how did you actually get better? You know what I mean? Like, what what improved, I guess. I just understood what I was doing. I understood why I was doing the things that I was doing. Um, I understood the math. And and at first I was just, again, I was just writing five to seven songs a day and throwing whatever on the wall and hoping something stick. And and a lot of things were sticking, but I can't lie and tell people I I knew this song was this. And I knew no, I was really like, yo, bro, I like everything I do. I love uh I I love all my babies. They're all gonna be doctors, you know what I'm saying? And um and um I met Luke, and he was like, yo, that's that idea is that concept may be good, but that melody is falling short because he's like, yo, first of all, I don't really know a lot about music in a sense of like I don't play any instrument and I can't read music, so everything I do is just basically off of what feels good to me. And he was like, yo, watch follow the chords, see where the chords I never done.

I I mean something as simple as that. I never was doing. He was like, yo, look at where the cards chords are going, and then look at where you took your note. I was like, I mean, you're right. He's like, you can do a better note right there that that fits the chord progression. The chord progression a lot better, and and you'll have a better melody. And so can you see that live while you're recording or something? Yeah, this is like from the non music. Okay. Now I can, you know, now when the music comes on, I I prefer to write to chords more than like beats because it's you know it's called writing the beat. And I always tell producers, beat makers per se, when you send me a beat with drums, you're forcing me into a pocket. When the when it's drums there, I have to ride the beat. I have to, I I can't get out of that rhythm. But if you just send me chords, I can You have more options, bro. Yeah, it's uh it's a bigger playground. Bro, this is this is huge. Yeah, like I've heard that before. Songwriters would prefer a more stripped-down version because there's more directions, there's more.

But most of the freedom. But yeah, but fuck the whole songwriter thing. Artists need to listen. Like artists are the songwriters for a lot. you know, most of our community isn't leveraging writers, okay? Because that's a whole other that's a whole other discussion around like should independent artists be leveraging writers, because I don't feel like they are, and why wouldn't they win the biggest of the big do? So we can talk about that. But like if you're not, you are the songwriter if you're the artist, if you're an independent, you should be taking this approach too. Like, don't just go get the beat from someone, right? Like with the drums on it, because that is gonna maybe like force you into something. Bro, you know, you can add drums later again, hence being a producer. You know, that's what I mean by some people they make a beat and they're like, cool, take the beat, you rap, they mix it and it's out. And it's like, yo, no, sometimes the producer knows there should be a drop here. The 808 is rubbing here, the 808 is clashing with the vocal here. The chord shouldn't come in, like knowing how to make the song shine.

Because it's about the song, you know what I mean? Unless you're a lover of music and you just go to see bands and check stuff out. Most people don't go watch people that they don't know their music. Yeah, people buy concert tickets to see people sing their favorite songs. Period. That's why, bro, Taylor Swift charges as much as she does beyond because fans want to listen. When you get on that stage, um, they want you to sing that song, and they want to sing along with you. You sung it. You were, oh man, I'm such a fan. You know what I mean? And so the song is so super important. Like it is the most important thing. Like, no, listen, none of us. If you're doing a music podcast, you don't have a podcast without the song. If you're an AR, you have no job without the song.

If you're an artist, you can't tour without a song. If you have merch, most of your merch is based off of song lyrics. The song is the song is the fuel for the car. And without fuel, the car goes nowhere. So where do you think most artists or writers are missing the mark, right? Like when you see up and comers, right? Like now that you're more of like a veteran in the game, right? And you've, you know, obviously fucking Grammy nominated for Songwriter of the Year. Like, where is the average artist that you stumble across or writer? You know, where are they falling short? A lot of writers, a lot of writers want to do it their way. A lot of writers want to be able to tell people it was them. My biggest song were collaboration about damn time. It's me, Lizzo, Blake, Ricky Reed. We collaborated. We did it together. We helped each other. Uh seven, me, John Bellion, Andrew Watt, Circuit, we did it together. You know what I'm saying?

Me and um uh Jeff Giddy, Cheatback, all these songs that I'm nominated wasn't me in a room by myself with my thoughts. It was like, hey, yo, that line could be better. And that so a lot of songwriters, they want to be able to say it's them. They're, you know, and for me, I don't want, I don't want to, I don't care who say it's them or it's not. I want a great song. I want to be a part of great things. The iPhone wasn't invented by one person, it was invented by a group of guys, but it's a great thing, and that's what I want. I want to be a part of great things, not hey guys, I invented the mic. No one bought the mic I invented, but no, bro. I want to be like, I invented something great with friends, and it's out, and the world gets to enjoy it. I want you know, tangible things that people can use that people can hold on to.

I want to be a part of that. Yeah, so songwriters need to collaborate and they need to listen and they need to listen to people who have more hits than them, even though sometimes you don't want to hear it, but that doesn't mean that you gotta use, I don't use everything Luke told me. I'm not just in here trying to be Dr. Luke. I will never be Dr. Luke. I can only be the best T Ron. But he did teach me things that I'm like, wow, I'm so happy I know that I can implement it with my style. I've taught Luke things as well. that's what collaboration does. When you're working with people, after a while, you're picking up on things, and then I think artists just need to take off the icky, the icky stigma of writers, and I think the icky stigma of writers came more from a hip-hop thing because it was like yes, you know, it came from more of rap. It's like you can't somebody wrote your raps, bro. You tripping.

And I understand that for the culture of the genre and and and and what it was created on, and there's no disrespect to that, but I'm sorry, some of your greatest rappers, they take bars, bro. And some of the biggest rappers take bars. Bro, I've written a lot of raps for a lot of rappers. Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I feel like, you know, you being a part of the all my life record with Dirk and J. Cole. I didn't write anybody's raps. No, I this was okay. And that's fine. Yeah, That's fine. No, no. No, and you know, I no, because I just want to say that after I said that statement, and then you asked that, and then somebody's like, what is he say? Listen. No, for sure it's such a it's like it's like a necessary evil, but I'm like, yo, bro, somebody had um one of my favorite TI songs is um So Live Your Life, yeah. Somebody wrote that hook that maybe wasn't TI, but I love when TI comes in though.

Yeah, and I'm just saying, it's not even if you yo, Jay-Z's my favorite rapper, but I'm a hustler, baby. He didn't write that. He didn't write, and I can't wait. I can't wait till Pharrell, bro. I was just frontin' Pharrell. But when Jay-Z, every time your name was brought up, I would act all nonchalant in front of an audience. Like I love those moments. Yo, I love those moments and their collaborative moments. And I'm not saying I listen, I don't think that you should you should have to have help on every song. But I think it's stupid for someone in the music business to know that there are people who make their life's mission and work in helping artists write songs, and you not utilize. I'm like, that's like a person that builds houses and is like, yo, bro, we don't use trash cans or hammers over here.

Yo, bro, but they have all these tools here for fuck that. Are you kidding me, bro? Oh, we don't use saws over the over here. Are you crazy? You trippin'. We'll never ever use a truck. We bring everything in the car. Yo, bro, all of these tools are invented for you to use for to make you better. And guess what? You don't have to use the tools on what everybody else use the tools for. You can be like, yo, I just, what are your weaknesses? Because everybody has a weakness. My weakness is concepts. A lot of the time, sometimes what the song is about, what the song is about stumps me the most. So guess what? Sometimes there's a guy that I'm like, yo, bro, Tyrone, if you wrote a song, bro, that guy is a part of it. Yo, sometimes I know people that don't write lyrics. They just do melody.

I know people that don't write melody, they just do lyrics. Again, this is just in a songwriter's mode. So my thing is as an artist, trying to sustain yourself in this game, making music, making quality, quantity music. Yo, bro, incorporate everybody that you can incorporate to help you make the best product ever. And you are the leader. You are the captain of the ship. The ship goes where you tell it to go. So when I come in a room with somebody that is a leading force of their things, bro, I follow. I bro, Doja Cat doesn't need me. I follow Doja Cat's lead. I might have I'd be like, yo, yo, I got this idea. What do you think? Oh, I kind of want to do this. Okay, cool. Tell me how can I help and where can I fit in so we can make the best song. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Lizzo, the same thing.

And so in what capacities does Doja like tap you for supporting. I mean, yo, it might, yo, I might have a cool melody. I might, I might have a concept. I might have the first four lines of the chorus. And then she's like, yo, that's crazy. I'm gonna go with it. Or I might have a hook, and she's like, yo, I like that hook, and now I'm gonna do my verses. Whatever the capacity of the help, I find it insane that you would rather lose than take help that's there for that's there to help for that exact purpose. Bro, everybody in the music business has a job, has a job. So my thing is like, yo, bro, this is how I feed my family. I go around writing songs for people. I'm like, yo, bro, I'm an artist. I'm I'm moderately successful, I've been doing pretty good.

I don't have no super super hit songs. That guy is giving a lot of hit songs to a lot of people. I'm not saying he's gonna give a hit song to me, but hey, management label, you think you can get me in the studio with that guy for like two or three days to see what we come up with. Maybe he might teach me something, show me something that I don't know. Who doesn't do that? Yeah, so you know. So you know, so let me ask this this is a perfect segue. So I'm very curious as to when you do lock in with an artist, right? You're in the studio, you're in there for several days, however long it may be. Like, what actually happens? Like, how do you work with artists like the whole fucking crazy roster that I that I listen to? at the beginning of the episode? My process varies, and I've worked with every single artist in a different way. Sometimes I write a song with me and my friends, and I send it to the artist, and they're like, yo, I like this song and I want to sing it. I might have written a song you know, I wrote We Can't Stop for Rihanna, but it ended up on Miley Cyrus, and I wrote seven for Justin Bieber, and it ended up on Jungkook. Okay, so let's say you're starting from scratch.

Uh-huh. Like artists is like, I want to meet this Tehran guy. Yes. He sounds fire. He's given just hits on hits to all of my peers. Like, why the fuck have I not gotten in with him? First session. Yeah, first session. You have nothing even maybe going yet, right? You know, how do you start from scratch with someone? We get in the studio. First thing we want to do, we want to have a conversation. You know, let's have a conversation. Let me you know. Tell me five hit songs that's came out in the last five years that you like. You're here with you're here with me to get a hit. You're not here for me to help you with your album. You've done that. You can do that on your own. If you uh now, if you want me to do your whole album, that's a different conversation. You're here for one. I'm just saying, you're here for one song. You want a missile. You're like, I'm trying to get the one to take okay, cool. Tell me five songs in the last five years that were hits that you're like, man, I love that. If I could give me one of those.

And guess what? I don't want to copy them. I don't want to do nothing like them. I don't, I just want to know where your head at. I just want to know musically where your taste is. Because if you play me five non-hits and you don't like any of the hits, now we have an uphill battle. Because all in five years, there wasn't five hit songs. One song every year that was big that you was like, I like that song. None? Yeah, that's great. okay. So now I'm like, whoa, you didn't like nothing. There's nothing that the masses enjoyed that you liked. Fuck. Okay. We call those hipsters. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. So we're like, damn. Okay. Now give me your musical taste. Tell me five songs that you do like. You play me the songs. Okay, cool. You play me those five songs. I listen to those songs, and now I'm saying, what songs fit that world that were big? Because I'm trying to fit, I'm trying to make you the biggest version of what you like.

Are they playing you their songs at that point? I don't want to. No. Not even theirs. Just listen, if if you're an artist that, okay, so like if I say somebody calls me and say, Tyrone, we want you to write for Rihanna. I'm Rihanna doesn't have a song out currently. She probably is like, okay, so Rihanna, I want to try to get Rihanna's first single. This is what I'll do. I'll download every Rihanna first single ever. Every album she's ever made, I'm gonna download only the first single. Why? Because I need to beat those songs. So I'm gonna play those songs and I'll be like, okay, Rihanna, this is all different. This is this, da-da-da-da. What hasn't she done? What genre hasn't she touched? What is a genre? What is something that people would be like, whoa, I didn't see that coming. Hmm. Okay, I think if she did this, this would be a surprise. Let's make music in this world. Let's make five, ten songs in this world. Oh man, out of these 10 songs that I made, I think seven of them are fire. Send them.

Let's see if she likes them. She might hate them, but but we're gonna try it. Dude, it's just so smart, but so simple. Yeah, to just look at what she's done, what has been the lead single for her career, and then try and just beat it. And seeing what works in that subgenre or whatever it is. Like what's working? How do we put it all together? As my job is to please both parties. So sometimes the artist directly wants to work with me. And sometimes the label calls me and it's like, yo, T, we got this artist, and we know they could be big, but we need a hit. So now you get in a studio with artists, and usually the label is icky immediately. Yo, bro, my my label is telling everybody I need fucking Raekwon type songs. I don't even, I ain't even on that shit. No, you bro, if you only know how many times a label has misrepresented an artist in the artist's eyes. Oh, yeah.

And you get in and they're like, they're already turned off by you because they're like, this motherfucker, you're you came in here for them, and they told you that I'm this and I'm not that. So how do you combat that? Well, the best way to disarm is like my first thing, the first thing I open up with, yo, first of all, I want you to know, I'm here for you. I am in this room for you. I would prefer to be at home with my wife and children. That's what I would rather do. So you know, I am only here, put on clothes, got dressed, took a shower for you. So I wanna do what you want to do. But in the process of doing what you want to do, I wanna try to do what you want to do at the biggest level that you've ever done it. How do you feel about that? Most people, 99.9% of people are like, hell yeah, bro. That's what I was just thinking.

I was like, let's go. I got chills. Let's fucking do it. So let's now let's go through. Now let's get to, yo, tell me five songs in the past five years. Okay, yeah. Oh, okay, cool. You don't have any songs? Okay, give me five songs that you love. Yep, yeah. It don't have to be hits, just five songs that you love. Yeah. You know. and nowadays days, you'd be like, I've even meeting ours be like, man, I don't really fuck with niggas like that. I just really be playing my shit, bro. Yeah. Okay. I love it. Label ain't giving you no more money. You can't go to the studio. Play me the song. Play me, play me the five songs that you would go with right now. You can't record no more. They're not, there's no budget. It's over. Play me the five songs that you're like, nigga, if I gotta go, I'm this what you're gonna bet your family's future on these five songs. Play me those. Oh my God. I just got so stressed out. bro. The opposite of how I felt earlier. Exactly. Yo,

you just took me from like here to like I'm fine. But peep game, peep game. Most of the people that I'm working with come from my background, you know. Poor from the hood, didn't have nothing. Nigga, this is what we're gonna do to take care of our mamas and our kids and our and our babies and our and our girls and our dads and our, you know, and and send money to some of our friends in prison. So, okay, how do you plan on doing that? Play me the five songs that you have that's gonna take care of those people. Play them for me. Damn. I want to hear them. That's because that's what you're doing it for, right? You nigga, we all want to move mama out the hood. Yeah, hell yeah. Hell yeah. Cool. Bam. They play me those five songs. Cool. What's the first one we going with? That's the first song we putting out. Okay. Let's try our best today to beat that song. Yes.

Can we you think you think you can beat that song? You think, do you think you can make a better song than that song? Let's start there. Damn. Because the first thing I'm trying to do is get, I got to gain your trust. Bro, I'm telling you, bro, songwriters are icky. We're a necessary evil, but nobody wants it, nobody wants to tell anybody that they fuck with us. So it's like, how I need to gain your trust. I I need to let you know I'm not here. Bro, I am one person that don't want to come in with no artists and change their identity or who they are. I want to everybody has a hit version of them. Everybody, hippie, underground, whatever you want to call them. Every single artist has a has a hit version where you're like, this is the underground version, but this is the guy with the hits. For sure.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's it's Playboi Carti for all the like new. You know, that exactly that sound, they look at Cardi as like the hit version of everybody, everybody, everybody trying to. Okay. So my thing is like, yo, we're just trying to find your bro, we're just trying to find you need one song a year. Bro, you're gonna put out, you're a rapper, you're putting out a 16 to 24 song album. You do RB, 12, 14 songs. You do pop, 10, 12. And you're gonna do a deluxe. And you need one. Every album. You could drop an album a year for seven years. And have seven, if you can have seven hits in seven years, you can tour for the rest of your life. Yeah.

Or if you just nail it out the park. Yo, bro, Lauryn Hill got one album. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Hold on, hold on, hold on. She got Fuji songs. we want to hear Killing Me Softly, and we want to hear Fuji Line. We want to hear her verses from all those songs, but Lauryn Hill. But Miss Education has one album. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know, like me, I only me, I know she has more, but I know one Nora Jones album. One. If I bought a Nora Jones ticket, it's to hear, Come away with me in the night. You know what I'm saying? To hear that album. You know what I'm saying? And so you just as an artist, you just need to make the music and make the things that get you there. And so when I'm in the studio, I'm just like, yo, bro, you think I'm here to rain on your parade? You think I got I don't have to go on the road and sing it. The weird part is I can do any genre, any song you want. What do you want to do?

Oh, you want to make a pop song? I could do that. You want to make a ghetto song? Yo, bro. Bro, What tell me what you want to do? You want to do RB? You want to, you want to, you want to do a Latin song? Bro, anything you want to do, I can do. So there's no issues. I want to know what you want to do. And with my sense, because the label had, because think on this. I can work on your album for the next six months, and the label can literally say, We don't like none of those songs. I don't get paid. I don't make no money. I lost six months of time. You go over, do new songs with him, and he gets paid. So you gotta understand, yeah, you could go out and do shows, but bro, I still gotta take care of my family. So yeah, respect to your art, but I'm in this room with you to make money. No disrespect. And that's that's a hard conversation, but that's the thing about getting to know the artist and understanding and letting them know, like, bro, I did not leave my wife and kids. Remember that then?

I don't know if you ever seen Denzel Washington where he's like, hey, bro, we gonna leave with something. It's a Denzel Washington interview where he's like, hold on. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. That's like always circulating. It's always like going viral again. Hey, hey, hey, brother. Hey, I got six kids and a wife. My mother and my mother-in-law live with me. I'm the nobody else work at my house. Guess what, baby? I'm taking some, I'm taking, I'm taking I'm taking a pot of something home. A pot of soup, a pot of rice, something go, a pot of plantain, something going back to the house. Yeah. Something got to go back to the house. So with that being said, don't. I said this and and I don't want to offend people. Don't call me to make vibes. Again, if I'm doing a whole a whole album, then we have to make vibes. We have to make a story. We have to make a project. We're making a movie with a beginning and end in the middle.

That is different. Again, making an album and making a song is not the same. If you call me to make a song, I do not want to help you with track number 11. I don't. You're here for one, two, three. I'm here for the yeah. No disrespect to you, but I'm but we might make track 11. And I'm grateful that I listen. We was trying to make track the first single, but I only got track 12 on the album. Now these days you never know. The fans might like track 12 and it might be big. I don't know. But we're in here shooting for the stars. And I think I think we gotta put this, we gotta put that stigma off. I think people got it like trying to make a hit is bad. And I'm like, trying to make a hit. Listen, I try.

Sometimes I'd be like, yo, man, I try to put together a fly outfit. I just didn't hit, but it didn't, it didn't come off. Ah, T, you ain't kill it. I thought he was gonna kill it. That fit, nah, you ain't dripping, right? You ain't got it today. You know what I'm saying? But when I went in the closet, I really tried to put it on. So why can't we try to make a number one song, even if it's number 35? Yeah, I I literally heard you talk about that in the other interview. I'm well, I'm pretty sure it was on Ray's God's show. And it's like, I completely agree. I don't understand. Like, to your point, you're gonna maybe end up with a vibey record. You might. You just might shoot for the stars, land on the moon. but it's like, why would you not? Yeah, makes no sense. But saying that to people, some people this is what I've learned. I don't think that I don't think people don't like hits. I don't think people like the pressure of what making a hit is. Yeah, that's the part that they're trying to avoid.

Oh my god, now I'm under all this pressure and it's stressing me out, and it's going to be bad. Now I need another one. I got one, gotta follow it up. And pressure makes diamonds, baby. Let's go. And that's what I want to make every day. For sure. So I'm like, put me under pressure, put me under pressure, put me. Somebody gotta come in in the fourth quarter and score the winning shot. Everybody can't be afraid to shoot. And I feel like a lot of people are afraid to shoot. They're afraid, they're literally they're like, I would much rather just make my vibe and let something organically turn into a hit than try to make a hit and fail and be like, damn, what I thought was a hit wasn't a hit. Maybe I don't know what a hit is. Yeah. Ego. So ego coming back to play. Yeah, instead of like, oh man, I ain't trying, bro. We wasn't trying to make no hits, bro. We was just making music. We were just vibing. Right. Fuck out of here. Well, Tyrone, we've entered the fourth quarter of the podcast. Oh shit. Let's fucking go.

Oh shit, are we here? Let's see if he's scoring. Let's go. Teron, this is the rapid fire rampage. Bam. Three part rampage. I'm gonna start you off with some short, quick answer questions. Okay, I'll explain the other two parts as we get there. Let's get into it. Starting off real easy, nice and simple. What is the meaning of life? Love. Simple. I know. simple. I know. Give us your top three tips for songwriters trying to break out in the industry in 2024. Top three tips for songwriters trying to break out. Collaborate. Um fail, fail, fail with grace and fail fast. And take criticism from everybody. Love that. Love it. T, you're going on vacation. Bam.

Any three people you can take with you, alive or dead. Where do you go and who do you take? Any three people alive or dead, where do I go and who do I take? Only three people. Three. Okay. Because it's only three people. Um can't get your whole family in there. Okay, I can't get my whole family. You got six Rugrats. My dad, my grandma, and my wife. And we would go. The kids are like, fuck you, dad. No, no, no. Go and pick three. You picked grandma, dad. My grandma passed. So I mean, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying. The kids are not gonna be pleased. And and and uh depends on where you're going, actually. No, no, no. I know and I well, I want to take them to Africa, because I I think that would be I would my dad would have loved to see it, my grandmother would have loved to see it. I mean, me and my wife, we went to South Africa before, but there's a lot of things we weren't able to do, so we've been trying to get back. So would you go to South Africa or yeah, yeah.

I want to go back to Cape Town and Johannesburg. And you know, I want to go like to where Mandela was cabbed. And I I wanna see all we didn't get to, I want to do all the tourist things that I didn't get to. Historical stuff. Yeah, I wanna do the historical things, and and I just feel like it it would be cool, like one last just super fire trip, you know what I'm saying? Love that. Hell yeah. So you just hired a personal assistant who is with you 24/7. What are their main jobs? Uh driving me around because I don't want to drive. I'm never, I never want to drive. Um checking my emails and answering them because I hate emails. Uh and setting my schedule up because I will triple quadruple book and tell everybody yes, and everybody would be expecting me at four o'clock, and I'd be like, I'm so not cut out to do this. Well, thank you for making it. Thank you for making it here.

We We really appreciate it for sure. I know that that other podcast he agreed to do is still waiting for him to show up. Where is this guy? For real. He's really late. Okay, um, just a quick, real quick mini exercise. Let's do it. Let's hear like your very first couple steps. If I have just hired you to write a song about my love for tacos. Very uh steps of writing your song for love for tacos. Just how would you like very just begin like from the beginning? I'm just I've hired you. I love tacos. Let's write a song. Okay. You love tacos. We want to write a song about Love and Tacos. The first thing I'm thinking on, were there ever a hit about food? Um milkshake. Um milkshake brings all the voices. No, but where Al Yankovic did a remake, and he had a he he did a and I would be like, so maybe I would think, okay, something comical. So let's make sure the beat is fun. So then after I think I would think Weird Al Yankovic, cause we're singing about food and we're doing something quirky and fun. Let's find a beat that makes us have a good time.

Um something that people could dance to, dancing and eating, you know what I mean? Sorry to brush your bubble, but I would be like, maybe something people can do TikTok, because obviously, obviously it's gonna be silly, it's about food and tacos, you know what I'm saying? And um then once we get the beat, the first thing would be like, okay, let's try to get a melody to this beat. Pick a beat that you like and I like. Oh, you like this beat? So do I. Cool. Pull it up and then start freestyling from there and try to make the best tacos song we can possibly make. That was better than I could have ever. Yeah. That was amazing. Let's do this. How much to hire you to write a taco? song? Crazy. Um, this is just kind of a personal one. I was just curious about your overall opinion on auto tune and how it's used in the industry. Do you have any strong or opinions on it? I I don't have an opinion. I see people talk about things. I see people talk about things, but I this is what I know. The future is coming whether we want it or not. Technology is gonna grow whether we want it or not.

And a lot of the times I see people complaining about things and and I get their gripe, but they're complaining about something that was the past. And as the world grows and turns and things become new, I feel like as much as I miss a good belting vocal on the mic with no auto-tune and just like you can sing, that is not where the world is. That's not where technology is. You know what I'm saying? I actually wish there were more sidewalks in Atlanta because I like to walk, but that's not where we are, so we gotta drive. Definitely. not. No, I mean, you understand what I'm saying? And and as the world goes, it it's gonna keep going. So I kind of instead of fighting with what I wish would we could go back to, I try to embrace the future and turn it into a future that I would love living in. So do you using AI at all on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm a chat GBT fan right now. I'm definitely super chat GBT.

Cool. yeah, I'm all in it. Okay. Okay, Round one. That's how he actually wrote all the hits that he's nominated for. I you know what? So I haven't used Chat GBT to write songs yet. I've actually been using Chat GBT to explore writing movie scripts because I've never written one and I have all these ideas for movies because that's my favorite thing. So I've been having Chat GBT like help me like formulate them and do it correctly. Yeah. Into movie script format. Because I I'm trying, I'm trying to figure out how to do it. So that's what I've been doing. Enter character one, yeah, fade table. Exit Henry. Exhale kill Henry. All right. First five minutes of the movie. Guess what? I have the control, so I can kill Ben's mic. How about that? Oh, oh, what happened there, buddy? Yeah, oh no. Last one of the short answer is you have an unlimited budget for the next R City album. Okay. How do you spend it?

Unlimited budget with the for the next R City album. Most of the money would be spent on marketing and promotion. I think I have made enough relationships with producers and friends where they wouldn't charge me what they would charge everybody else. So I would literally go in and be like, oh, I might even partner with a producer. Like, you know what I mean? I I'd be like, yo, how about this? You make all the beats, me and my brother write all the songs. Let's go in on the masters. If we get another locked away, everybody gets rich. You know, just come in and do this whole project with me, and I'm gonna spend the money on marketing, promoting, not even like insane videos. Like I wanna make like creative videos for not as expensive because somebody told me something that blew my mind. They're like, you spent $200,000 on your video and it got half a billion views. I spent $1,500 on my video and it got half a billion views.

We just made the same amount of money. Actually, I made more. than you. You made more because you spent less. So because of that, I I would try to find more cost-effective ways to make my creative ideas come to life and not just, oh, we can pay $300,000 for a video, let's spend it. I would prefer to like make real cool shit with with less and I would spend every dollar on marketing. I'm I'm like, this is what I'm gonna say is controversial, and I and this is my opinion, but I think the Barbie movie was the worst movie I've ever seen. And I think it was super big because the it was the best marketing I've ever seen. Yeah, I've never seen it, like I've never seen nothing mark, you know. I like the soundtrack. I actually like the music, but the movie, I was like, yo, bro, this movie was terrible. And I but you just saw pink popping up everywhere. Everything was pink. Bro, And I had to see it.

I had to see it. I had to, like, by the way, all my friends told me it was bad. And I was like, I'm sorry, bro. Still going. I got to find out for myself. So, So so I think, you know, with a good product and great marketing, you can you can go, you can be the biggest thing in the world. There it is. Part one. Hell yeah. Fire. Part one. Part two is the this or that. I'm just gonna give you two choices. Pick one. Very simple. Bam. Starting with, and I think these first few we kind of talked about, but I just want to make sure, lock them down. Hooks or verses? Hooks. Lyrics or flow? Lyrics. Drums or melodies? Melodies. Snares or claps. Ooh. Yeah, we didn't talk about that one. Ah, man. I I'm I like a good snare. I might go with a snare on this one. Writing alone or writing in studio. Shh. Right.

Writing in the studio. Ten platinum records or one diamond record. Ten platinum records. Dogs or cats. Dogs. Pizza or tacos. Ooh. so how about this? This is a oh no. Mexican food is my favorite overall food. Me too. But bread and cheese are the two best things on planet Earth. So it's a tough one because I I'm gonna go with pizza. I'm gonna go with pizza. Dang. I know, man, because I love pizza. We just wrote a song about tacos. I know, man. Come on. I'm gonna Go with pizza, man. All right, you let me down. Um, and the last one, this is to gauge your risk tolerance. Are you taking a million dollars tax-free instantly, right now, or a 50% chance at 10 million dollars? 50% chance at 10 million Going for it, baby. Let's go. You said, roll the dice, flip the coin, let's get it. I would have took, okay, so now a million dollars isn't a lot of money to me.

So when I was coming up, I would have took the million dollars. Sure. so, so I think that question really depends on where a person is mentally and financially. and where I am. Like, like I'll be like, I don't need a million dollars, so I'll be like, let's see if I can get the 10. I like that, yeah, for sure. Hell yeah. The last part is the word association. I'm gonna say one word, and you just say the first word off the top of your head, right back at me. Okay, there's no wrong answers. You are only judged on speed. Here we go. Starting with hip hop, Busta Rhymes, car, truck, TikTok. Dancing. plug, drug dealers, hit, songs, tequila, Casamigos. video game, super nintendo, president, Obama, dentist. I don't know my dentist name.

He's watching this right now. I'm Sorry, hey, you can go see my sister, she's a dentist. I don't know his name. Yeah, Dr. McTeer. Strawberry Lemonade Content, hated lawyer. Good old Todd. He knows the lawyers, man. Yeah, yeah. Shout out. You gotta know the lawyer. Good old Todd, baby. Strip club, Magic City, Lil, baby, Billy, goat. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Tyron Thomas. For your Grammy consideration. Songwriter of the year nominee. Yes. Hopefully, by the time some people fucking circle back to this episode, he will be Grammy winning. Yeah, God willing. Yes. Appreciate you coming on, man. Man, appreciate you having me, man. Yo, I had so much fun on this podcast. I want to let y'all know I had a good time. Hell yeah, brother.

Appreciate that. As always, please like, comment, and subscribe. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcast. Leave us a five star review. If you're not giving us five stars, just move right along. Don't even worry about it. Yep. Until next weekend, what are we doing? Getting out of here. The fuck out of here. Peace, y'all.