Cam the Artisan Interview: Landing a NBA Commercial | American Eagle Drops a Big Bag

This also sounds like a scam. Anybody in their mom would be like, oh, well, you want to use my song for the f***ing reboot of French Prince of Bel-Air? I asked other artists that I know that are actually like really sync heavy, and they were like, nah, it looks legit. They didn't even tell me what episode it was gonna be in, or if they were even still going to use it. I just woke up to 10 different DMs and people were like, bro, your song is on Bel-Air. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. I'm playback Ben here with my co-host, Henry Ruther III, aka The Trap Jack Black. Trap Jack Black. Who do we have here in the middle? Welcoming in on episode 82 of the One More Time podcast straight out of Chicago, Illinois. Mr. Capalot himself, Polo G. You know what's fucking hilarious? I have a I have a homegirl from Miami.

She's been calling me polo G for the past month and a half. So and she literally just called me Polo G last night. So it's a decent one then. So yeah, I I can't even be mad at it at this point. Yeah, Henry actually hit her up and asked, like, you know, who should I roast Cam the Artisan as? Who is actually? spoiler alert, we have Mr. Cam the Artisan here, aka Artie McFly. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So you're fresh off of an NBA TV sync placement. Oh man, yeah. Like, what what what is the piece of content that used your song How High? Like what is that? Like a trailer for a game or something, or like what is it? Yeah, so from what I've seen, because apparently there's more than the two that I've posted so far. Okay. Nice. So the ones that I've seen, one is a um, it's like transitioning into commercial break, and they're playing the highlights of whatever team is winning at that point. And then they put how high in that segment. So that was the first clip I saw, and then the second clip that I found, um, it was a pre-game kind of like situation where you know it's like this team versus this team, and they're playing how high in the back.

And that one was cooler because they actually put my name and the title of the song at the bottom. That's automatically. cooler. I thought you put that on there. No, bro. The NBA shouted out how high and oh man, I thought you were just like, in case anyone wants to know, this is my song. No. That was them for sure. Wow. Shout out to them for that. How does that feel, man? Bro, I I'm I'm not gonna lie, I don't watch basketball like that just because I don't have the time to, but who cares? You know, I don't watch the NFL, but if my song's on, you know, right Sunday, it's got to feel incredible. Yeah, it um it's definitely a surreal feeling. Um I tear it up a little bit just because I get in I get in moments of time and space where I feel like I'm not doing enough or I'm not at a certain level in my career, just you know, where I'm at personally, and then things like that happen, especially being attached to specific brands like the NBA um or the NFL. I apparently have some NFL syncs too, but I haven't seen any yet.

Um yeah, that's that's just a crazy fucking feeling. I love it. That's amazing. Yeah, so we talked to Grips uh manager Tig. I think he's the one that brought or maybe it was Deshaun actually talking about like him and Childish Major. It was Deshaun talking about Childish Major. They got approached by, I think it actually was the NFL or whatever for Madden. Okay. Or sorry, not NFL, but EA for Madden. And they made a song specifically like for a football game. Wow. Did you make how high at all thinking that it was like gonna be a NBA like song? Not at all. I my intention with that song really was just to showcase lyrical ability, of course, but also I wanted to um just based on the music that I had out before and prior to that song coming out. I just wanted to make a statement. And it's like at this point, like what else do I have to do? How much higher can I go? Just because I've I've I've done the streams, I've done the shows.

Like, what more do I have to do to prove that I'm supposed to be here? Pretty much. Yeah. So how do you go from how does it find its way to the NBA? Did you realize later this might be a good fit? Did someone else tell you this would be great? Did you just happen to meet someone that asked if you had anything? For them? it was it was more so just like meeting someone in the industry. Um, shout out to my homegirl Simran. Um she kind of like set the play up, and then I remember I just got a random email at like two in the morning from the NBA. Basically, there was like, hey, like we want to license your song, how high for you know any content that we have coming up for any of the games. Uh reply to this email saying yes, if you would like to have it. I just say, Yeah, fuck yeah. God damn right. Go out. Yeah, it it's beautiful because obviously you wrote it somewhat of this like struggle, but like almost it's got this like triumphant feel to it. But then of course the NBA can take it in different ways and like how high, like how high are you jumping and like you know, dunking, whatever.

So I thought it was like a perfect sync, of course. And I was just like, yo, that is fire, man. How stoned are you? Yeah, that's probably what they were going for when they played it. No, that's that's interesting. So basically, your advice to people who are trying to get sinks is like, as with everything, it's just the networking of you know, having people who look at you and they're like thinking about you when they got plays. Yeah, it's it's that, and also too, like especially recently. I've just been getting really fucking lucky with shit like that. Like, even um even Bel-Air placing Brown Skin in one of their episodes, like that was just like a random lucky situation. I just got a DM from some, some white guy. He was just like, Hey, um, are you uh, you know, do you own the rights to this song? Is this your song? Blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm thinking, you know, like as an artist, you gotta be really careful with shit like that. Cause it's like niggas might be scamming type shit. That white guy's probably wanting to steal it, yeah.

For sure. So I was just like, yeah, like if you know I'm curious to know why you're reaching out for this specific song for whatever. Like, if you want to set up a phone call, we could do that. He was like, No, like we're um we're trying to find songs for like Bel-Air. And I'm like, okay, this also sounds like a scam. Cause of course, right? Anyone in their mom would be like, oh well, you want to use my song for the fucking reboot of French Prince of Bel-Air. Um, so we had you know genuine conversations. I asked other uh artists that I know that are actually like really sync heavy. Um, and they were like, nah, it looks legit, like go for it. And then they sent the contract over the paperwork. Um, I sent invoice, all of that back, and then they didn't even tell me what episode it was gonna be in or if they were even still going to use it. I just woke up to 10 different DMs and people were like, bro, your song is on Belair. Yeah, that is dope. Yeah, yeah, because they're like, Yeah, you gotta watch all the episodes to see if your song gets it's like their way of getting viewership. I get it, I get it.

They send it to a million uh artists of like just to make them watch the show. I've heard of people getting paid for sync too, and and it and then they don't end up using it, but you still get paid. That's fire, kind of I I I guess I would still rather like have the song played. Yeah, but uh take the check. Yeah, so how much had did it contribute to like increase in streams? Like, did you see a like correlation at all? Or was it yeah, definitely? So um, especially for that song, the stream shot up, and it's a good thing too because you have, especially with these algorithms on Instagram now, you have a lot of people that don't hear the music that you put out, and they're actually invested in you, but they just don't see it. Um so I had a home girl of mine, she reached out, she was like, bro, I was watching that episode, that song stood out so much, I shazammed it, and then I find out it's you. And she just like she was just she just went crazy.

Like, as far as like, bro, I'm so proud of you. Whatever you fucking do, do not stop. Like, you have it, like you have something. Um, you're you're you're special, uh, just keep going. So is stuff like that just makes me feel so good about you know what I'm doing. Motivating, that's fire. Yeah. How deep do you get into like analytics and stuff? Do you dive? Yeah, I um not as not as heavy as I used to, uh, just because I try not to put myself in a mental position where I feel like I'm not doing enough. Sure. Oh, you can you can drive yourself crazy, bro. Yeah, I'm I'm overly critical. I'm a hardcore perfectionist, so it it gets to a point to where I'm like, all right, I'm just not gonna look at the streams. Like, even when I drop music, um, I don't check my stats until like a month after. That's kind of smart. Yeah. I mean, or just at least at least for your mental, like, you know, maybe others would disagree of like maybe get someone else to check them for you. No, but I I catch myself refreshing the fucking YouTube to see how our like episodes are doing, and like our TikToks to see how our TikToks are doing and shit.

Yeah. It's stressful. I even find myself fucking, and you know, it's like way more intimate when it's a piece of art, you know. Like, of course, this is like our own little creative venture, you know, don't get me wrong, but like it's different. I feel like when it's like you poured your heart and soul, like I'm just up here talking to people. You don't you don't want to get to a point to where a day after you release something, you wake up and it's like, oh, it only has 15 views. Fuck like I thought this was a hit. Cause I I I get like that too, because me having a track record of having high streaming songs, it's it's a little underwhelming when you check the next day and it's like, damn, this shit's only at a thousand plays. But mind you too, like when I first started, I could barely hit a thousand plays. So it's is it gives a little bit of perspective too. But it's tough on Spotify when you you don't get the thousand, then they don't even show you. Yeah, they don't count once it gets over. It's like it's the it's the blank the icon. I hate that. The less than, yeah, the fucking less than is like damn brutal. Nah, I would rather them just not put it up.

there. Just don't put it on there, bro. Like don't, Don't humiliate me. That's interesting. Yeah, it it is a weird thing, right? Especially even, you know, we've talked about this on another episode. Like people that come out and even if it's not their first song, but whatever, they have a song that does really well. Yeah, it's like each release after that, you're putting so much fucking pressure on yourself to up the ante. Yeah, and it's unrealistic to some degree. Yeah, you're not, it's not a very, it's not a linear thing. Like, you're gonna have songs that do well, then you're gonna have shit that doesn't. And like, you know, even major label artists like play the play that game, you know what I mean? Yeah, so that that's like tough, man, because you know, you do have that song that does a million streams, and you're like, fuck, I'm only at a thousand. Yeah, that's a lot of thousands to go to the million. And the music industry now being the type of environment where artists are rising and then falling off like that. Yeah. So I mean, it's got the anxiety that must come with that as an artist. Like if I don't, if I don't, yeah, up it from the last song, then you know, am I falling off?

Is it over? Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to get this out of the way at least relatively early. Your first rap name was Shaken Bacon. That's fucking crazy. That is crazy. Are you Nardwuar? that's crazy. That's crazy. He's the Nardwuar of podcasting. No, but it's crazy that your first rap name was Shaken Bacon. Shaken Bacon. But then I found out that because I looked at a song credit on Spotify, your last name is Bacon. Yeah, so it's not as lame as I thought at first. I was like, oh, his last name's Bacon. Okay, but like, why'd you do that to yourself, man? I mean, so a little backstory. Yeah, what was going on through your head? a little backstory. I I initially started making music seriously my freshman year of high school. As Shaken Bacon. Yeah, exactly. Okay, he made he made serious music as Shaken bacon. He was 15 or 14 or whatever, you know. Yeah, bro. So I I can't help it. And you know, as time progressed and I started maturing as an artist. I'm like, all right, we can't do Shaken bacon, bro.

It's not going to cut it, bro. Nobody's going to be listening to somebody named Shaken Bacon. I don't believe that. Yeah. It sounds like a weird owl. I I went through like four different name changes, though. Like let's hear them. Can we get them? Uh yeah, I started initially I was Shaken Bacon, then I went to Gravity. Because I had a I had a rap group, ninth grade. OSG. OSMG. Oh, OSMG. Yeah, it's good. No, it's cool. It's cool. It's cool. Almost. Almost. Um so it was the it was Outer Space Music Group, that's what it stood for. So I was just like, all right, I'll just switch it to Gravity. And then Yeah, what were the other people's names in the group? Like Mars. Featuring Jupiter. Um Galaxy. Young Asteroid. asteroid. Black hole on the beat. So The main producer, his name was DJ Moonwalker. That's kind of fire. Yeah, because so his last name was Moon, so it made sense. Y'all got cool ass names.

Um Schultz and McTeer over here. Yeah, fuck. A bunch of Scott Irish and Germans. Yeah. Yeah. Um, fuck. I can't even remember. That was so long ago. Um, Moonwalker and uh Gravity is cool enough. And then after that, I switched it to Gravity the Artisan, and then I switched it, I switched it I switched it to just the artisan. And then when I finally made my Instagram, I couldn't use the artisan because somebody else had it. So I was like, all right, I'll just put Cam the Artisan, and then it kind of just stuck after that. Cause when people would see me in person, it's like, oh, you're Cam the artisan. So I'm like, yeah. And so I just was like, all right, cool. Like I got the LLC. Oh, it was like you're Cam, comma, the Artisan. They were like just saying, Yeah, you're the Cam, that's the Artisan. Exactly. Okay, and then you're like, oh, that's kind of hard. It sounds kind of good. Yeah. So I was like, all right. all right. It was rolling off the tongue. I'll use it. Fuck it. I wonder how many artists ended up with their name because of confusion. Because like something was taken up.

No, because something was taken on social media. Yeah. I mean, it's a gem. You should do your fucking research on Spotify and socials to make sure, like artists, when you're thinking about becoming an artist, like think critically about this shit because we've gone through a rebrand, another back rebrand. Yeah. We've gone through a whole bunch of things, man. Yes. So yeah. That's that's fire, man. Um, okay. So yeah, so you know, obviously you're Cam the Artisan, Artie McFly is another, you know, alias, right? So you're all about the art, bro. I mean, you've talked about this in other interviews and just in some of your content, like you obsess over this shit. Yeah. And like, what is your definition of art? Art. Um, I mean, obviously, art is subjective, but for me, it's it's something that something that stands out, like you you don't understand it at first. It's something that kind of grows on you over time. And that's kind of how I've always wanted to approach making music, my videos.

Um, like even me, like I pay attention to detail, like to the T. I never want to just do a video just to be like, all right, like here's the video, fuck y'all. Like, go watch the video, like run my run my views up. Like, no, when when you watch the video, I want you to rewatch it and then find like circles, for example. Like, I want you to find like the three circular signs that I had in the top right corner of scene like zero zero zero or you know, some shit like that, right? Or you know, whatever. But that's just kind of how I approach things and just understanding how modern art is or just art in any any medium, whether it be videography, fashion, whatever, like there's always a a bottom basis to it. Um, and I always just want to make sure when I do things, make music, create content, um film videos or whatever, like I just want to make sure it's it's it's art. Like has depth.

It has depth to it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So is that what makes art good to you? Right? Because yeah, it's it's that depth and like intention. One of like a lot of my favorite albums, they have depth to them. Like I don't I don't like this age of having an album with a bunch of singles on it. Like for me to really enjoy an album I have to listen to it all the way through not understand it at first and then give it a week re-listen to it. Okay, like I understand why he keeps saying this in track two, five, six, and eight and then listening to it that third time ah okay I see why this half of the album sounds more moody and then the second half of the album sounds more bright because it's a two whatever the fuck I'm just a nerd with with shit like that. So like a lot of my favorite albums of all time like Igor by Tyler, the Creator, perfect example, To Pimp a Butterfly by Kendrick obviously like just albums like those are really what gravitates me towards how I approach what I do. And then also too like bro nobody's nobody really cares anymore.

And that's the crazy part. Like nobody cares about really just like pushing the boundaries of themselves and uh their artistic creation. And I think we're missing a lot of that just not even just with hip hop, but just in general um and I just want to be like the forefront of that in this next generation. It's crazy. I love when guests like steal the next question out of my head. And I my literal next question was how much does the art side of music matter right now, bro? Oh, it it definitely doesn't matter now. I mean, the people that really really care. Is that discouraging though? It is because you you kind of see the decline and you kind of you understand why. Like you you understand, like, well, obviously that doesn't sell as many records as fucking uh her lost Drake album or whatever. Because our attention spans are fucking shrinking by the second. Yeah, but when you when you look back at everyone that has those quote unquote classic albums and those those moments, like those end up being the projects, the rollouts, everything included, those end up being the things that we kind of love the most. Um and you know, no shade to like Drake or anything, or like just anybody that just does the album and just puts it out.

Like, no shade to them at all. Because there's a thing for everybody, and everybody can't do that. But I feel like the people that actually do want to do it, go for it. Like, because I've I've been doing it, I've been finding success with it. Um Bro, like I my my mentality now is fuck what everybody else is thinking about how I approach what it is that I do. If they don't get it, that's fine. If I can just get one person to really just sit back and be like, you know what? Nah, this kid is cool. Just because he like really cares about the smallest shit. And then just with me being a perfectionist, it doesn't make it any better. So if I um and also like my mentality too when I make music, um I have to allow myself. So if I was if I was a person that just hated everything, if I was Scrooge, right, Ebenezer Scrooge, like Henry, exactly, right? If you were Henry, if I was Henry, if I was Henry, um just a grumpy old man over there, what would I have to do to allow that person to fall in love with it is that I'm that I'm doing because if you if you if you take that approach to it, obviously, like the average, like normal people are just gonna fuck with it off the strength.

But if you can get the people that's like really hard to grab, it's like uh like it's cool, but da-da-da-da-da. If you can grab those people, like you're you're good. It's interesting because I think what you said about like the ones that are making those types of projects where there's a lot of attention to detail, there's a huge like thought process that goes into it, it's got deep layers to it, whatever. I do think that those are the ones that can like stand the test of time, yeah. But it's the the majority of like the middle of like what is just like reaching a certain level of success and like people fuck with it like in the moment, and then it probably goes away in a month, whatever. whatever. That's where they're not necessarily caring about that, yeah. But I do agree that like if you're willing to take that's a huge risk, though. If you're willing to take that risk and like pour your heart and soul and like intention into this shit, have it take longer, have it be harder, yeah, whatever. You there is that like small, small, small chance that it is gonna break through as something that people are talking about for you know, shit.

When did when did To Pimp a Butterfly come out? I mean 2015, yeah, like set seven years, and it's not gonna go away in conversation for a while. No, right? So that's how I always view it is that like it really depends on your your goals, right? And just I always say this still, make whatever the fuck you want at the end of the day. Okay. This is still like if you want to live with yourself every day and for the foreseeable future, like you gotta love it. You gotta love it. Whether it's the quick onesie twosies, you know, loosies and that approach, or whether it's the approach that you're taking, like you gotta be able to live with it regardless. Yeah, and you gotta be able to live with the success or the you know, quote unquote failure of it. You know what I mean? Um so I've always said that the best music has both like on the first listen, it's it grabs me. There's something cool about it, and it gets me interested on the first listen. Mm-hmm. But when I keep listening, I'm still discovering new things, and it does have depth to it. I think both kind of aspects are important.

Yeah. Because, you know, especially in in, you know, today's day and age, a song that has a bunch of depth, you know, when people are scrolling TikTok like this, there's no shot that you're gonna grab them. So do you put any thought into I know you have the the depth part of it, but do you ever think about how people will perceive something just off the first listen? Um, yeah, and that's kind of what my approach was when I released my last record circles. I um I wanted to make sure that even if you were to scroll on TikTok, the five seconds, the three to five seconds that you do catch before you're like, oh, I don't fuck with this, it's it's gotta be something that catches your ear, whether it be the melody, um the the change of like the pace of the beat, the lyrics, like the toxicity in the lyrics, like it's it's going to be something within that three seconds that you're you decide if you want to continue watching it or not. Um, and even now, just like what I'm working on project-wise, I'm like, all right, if I had a thousand people to just kind of speed run through this project and just be like, oh well, like I'ma just like skim through it, like I don't really give a fuck.

You have to put those those nuances in there, and that's like, oh shit. Like, all right, like let me let me let me let me see if I fuck with it real quick. And then at that point, like you get people invested, you get people to care, and then once you get people to care, that allows them to listen to the rest of it, the older shit, and that allows them to be um engaged for when the newer newer newer shit after that comes out. Yeah, they start putting all the pieces of the puzzle together, yeah. And they become like a deeper fan, I think. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I feel like you're a real like artiste, you know. There's like artists, and then there's like artiste, you know. You know, it's kind of like that, like you know what I'm saying? Um, like you mentioned, you know, Tyler and Kendrick as two prime examples of similar like styles in in that regard, right? Who are some of the others that are like doing it the way that you you know kind of like to approach it? Yeah, like yeah, exactly.

The ones you're looking at of like the recipe at least is there. Uh so yeah, Kendrick and Tyler for sure. Um, I would say Gambino, uh really, really strong candidate for for me in that regard. Um I'm trying to Damn during the interview, Henry. That's wild. That's rough. That's wild. I mean, that's that's really my top three, yeah, as far as just like the the layering of it. I I'm a really big fan of Billie Eilish, too. So I love Billie, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Like you, you would think, like, can't fuck with Billie Eilish? I don't fuck with Billie Eilish. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because like I do think she takes that, you know, intentional approach. I mean, you know, you look at all the like documentary stuff on like her and Phineas and like the way they approach making music, whatever. And then I think what's really cool about her, which I know you've done as well, is like she's directed a lot of her music videos recently, at least I mean a ton of the big ones. Yeah.

And you've also directed at least about a handful. So all right, so co-directed, maybe. Yeah. So especially with the last few, I've definitely like kind of stepped into that role more. Um so like even my first couple videos, so Bliss, um, I directed that fully. Where you at? Um, I had a little bit of help from the director, Brown Skin was fully directed by me. Um I don't even remember all my videos. Uh Circles for sure, believe it was was for sure with a little bit of help from um the videographer. But for the most part, bro, like I don't bless you. You you good? Yeah. Alright. I'm gonna make it. Nah, so for the for the most part, I definitely try to step into that director role just because that's just how my mind works. Like, I can't, I can't just let somebody else just be like, yo, like let me do this for you.

It's like, bro, no, because I'm a control thing, not no, not necessarily. It's just when I'm when I make music, I s I see it by the time I finish the the record. Like, I see what the vision is, and just because I I'm a creator, I just have to have like some sort of like large involvement in it to where I feel like okay, like this is mine. Like, and when you when you look at everything that I've done video wise, you can kind of tell the growth too, just like in my taste and how I how I like this lens on this camera and how I want this angle now. Like, it's, if you if you really pay attention, you can you can see the growth, but I just really like to be a part of everything that I do. That's just how I am. I think we've all seen a video that doesn't necessarily match up with the song. Yeah, it's kind of jarring, yeah. You know, to throw it throw you off. Probably the vast majority of you, bro. Like, because like when he mentioned, like, I don't just like shoot a video for the sake of like putting it up and being like, you know, go run my views up. I was like, oh my god, he just literally did a perfect impression of like 99% of artists out there.

You know, and it's like, you know, once again, I think that if you want to live in this like middle ground of like, you know, you can get hella views and like you can reach a certain degree of like notoriety for sure doing it that way. So no shade if you want to pull up to the gas station, yeah, you want to pull up to the you know, the block and with your homies and you know, get a bunch of just people like turning up, yeah. Those video, those videos go the fuck up. They do. I mean, like they do. So it's not even to throw shade at it, it's just a matter of like that's just not you. That's just not. I mean, you know, there'll be times where I I am like, yeah, you know, we can just do something simple, like for the believe it video. I wanted to scale it down a little bit, make it you know more fun. Um, but just I I just that was still the one with the balloons and shit, right? Yeah, that shit was so crazy, bro. What are you talking about? Like, go check that video out, y'all. And you'll see a simple video. And you'll literally be like, what the fuck is this dude talking about? Yeah, not simple, like not what I'm talking about. When I when I say simple, I mean you called the video guy and showed up.

Yeah, okay. I got you. Yeah, maybe simple by your standard standards, but yeah. But yeah, no, so you just gotta like it, just because if you see something in your head, I feel like you'd be like disappointed if it if it was anything else, right? Yeah, cuz also too, like I I like to attach my music to a visual element just because when you when you look at so like Kanye is a great example too, right? For um Dark Twisted Fantasy, the um the full-length like visual he did for that. Wild. Um it's like once you once you finish something or once you're like working on something and you you have a specific vision for it, the artist in you isn't just gonna let you just be like, all right, like I'll just call like director X and like we'll shoot it and we'll be good. Like, because I mean, and we've seen it in his in his documentary, like he shot the what was it, the Jesus Walks video, what two, three different times. Yeah, it's like when you when you just know in your heart and in your soul that something has to look and feel a certain certain way, you can't just not do that.

Like it just it just because you you live with regret after that when you're like fuck, I wish we would've did it like this. Cause then you you see you see the um you see people that watch it and they're like, oh, like it was a cool video, and it's like fuck, we should've, we should've went with my idea. Like, it's it's just I I hate to have regrets like that. Yeah, I think that you know, when you are in control of a lot of the process, yeah, it is like it's either like your back to pat or like your own throat to choke type of shit, right? Where it's like that's a good one. Thank you. Pause. Pause, I guess, yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Um, so like do you think that you being so intentional though and whatnot, like, do you think that holds you back at all? Uh yes, for sure. I I'll I'll admit it. Um there have been times where I will slow down processes just with me over analyzing and criticizing something. Like, for example, I have two videos that were shot that y'all will never see the light of day. Um it kind of like fucks up the entire rollout.

It fucks up just how cohesive things should be. Um like for me, like it just it just slows the process down. Like, I'm not really an artist that feels like I have to just rush and do shit. But when it does come time to where it's like, all right, like things need to be ready. Like, I do get to a point to where I'm like, well, like we need to like see if we can shoot this shit at the top of the Atlanta skyline. If not, then like I'm not doing it. And because like I don't I don't have anyone really helping me for real. Like, I don't have someone to be like, no, like let's try it this way, or let's um, let's like figure out a different strategy and like go with that. Like, I don't really have that right now. So you think that's because of maybe like a lack of trust, trusting someone with your vision? Yeah, uh definitely. Uh because also, too, like. Are you single?

Yes. There you go. Does any of this quote on, quote unquote? I mean, does any of this bleed over? I might I might get in, I might get in trouble for saying that. Oh shit. But we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. But like, do you think, you know, like is that are you kind of a, you know, like, you know, paranoid when it comes to like people. Yeah, like people, you know, that are in your circle. And because I know you've had people come in and out and like whatever, right? I mean, that's that's typical some, but like at the same time, you know, your experience maybe has been like people that have gotten close to you. I don't know, like, has that happened where? Um, I will I will say this. I I do believe, and not to say that I'm right all the time, but I feel like with the way that my upbringing is and just like my faith and things of that nature, I feel like I have ideas in certain sections of my mind for a reason. Um, I understand that not everything can be executed exactly how I want it to, and I'm I'm learning that now. I'm learning to like kind of fall back from being a perfectionist slightly, which is something that I never thought I'd be able to get over.

Um, but with that, I do think that certain relationships with people, it it has kind of not worked out simply because of just me wanting to me wanting to be something and somebody that's kind of perceived as like a super creative to where it's like because you know, like people have writers and people have like co-directors, but like I really want to be known as the person that does everything. Um and I understand, like just in building relationships with certain people, uh a lot of people just aren't gonna understand that or even fuck with it. And you know, that's fine, but I feel like the people that really do truly understand that, like they'll get it and they'll they'll try to find a way to like work their way around it. And I think I haven't really, besides a few people, obviously, but I feel like there's not a lot of people that really truly understand it and is willing to be like, you know what, like I understand where he's coming from, so let me just let me just let me just let him rock.

And then if it doesn't work out, we can have a conversation about why it didn't work out. But if it does work out, all right, Cam, like I'm I trust you, like let's rock. And as far as like me trusting people, like I don't I don't I don't trust a lot of people just in general, too, just because of like a lot of trauma that I've had growing up. Yeah, but um, and you know, not to say that I would never trust anyone, but you especially as an adult too, like you see certain shit, you see certain patterns, it's like, bro, like what are you doing? Like you you call shit out because if you if you let it slide, they're just gonna continue doing it. And when you see multiple people back to back, especially in this industry, and they show you like over a period of time that they're not to be trusted, like you kind of just like you have to go with that. You can't you can't just sit back and be like, all right, like I'm gonna let you rock just because you know I I still got love for you. It's like no, like bro, like you did some dumb shit. Um, and also too, like I have I have a few people around me that I always ask questions.

Like, I'm like, all right, am I wrong in this situation? Because if you don't have that, you you never grow as a person to understand like where you might be wrong in a situation. So for me, like I have people where I'm like, all right, like hypothetically, if this happened to you and this happened, like how would you respond to that? And then if they agree with me, then like I know I'm not crazy because I know, like, all right, well, and mind you too, is it's multiple people, it's at least 10 people. So if if 10 people are all saying the same thing and they're not even like-minded people, I always try to make sure I ask different types of people. That's like super important. So, like, even like any artist, like if you if you have people around you, like try to find the most different person to ask every single time. Cause if you if you have people that are basically like-minded, it's kind of like an echo chamber to where it's like, oh, like, well, they they said I wasn't wrong, so I'm good. And it's like, yeah, it's a confirmation bias.

Where it's like, if you have a you if you have 10 right-winged lunatics in a group, you're gonna all and you know, once again, I didn't mean to make this political, but I'm just saying, No, you're you're being for real. You know, yeah, you got a fucking, you know, a bunch of that type of people, or even take the other extreme. You got a bunch of super liberal leftists, you know, socialists, yeah. They're gonna talk themselves into like this is absolutely correct, obviously. Yeah, so yeah, no, I think that's super key, man. And I think that we we talk about this a lot of like, you know, even like the artists I work with will come to me and I'm like, bro, I'm one guy with one opinion. I'm 31 with a kid, I don't live in your like actual world. Like, I'm you know, I'm tangential to all this, right? I have the podcast, I talk to artists all the time, I talk to managers, whoever, but like I'm one fucking dude. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you what my opinion is, yeah. Yeah, but go ask like a bunch more people, bro. Like a bunch more people like that you, you know, to your point, like that are way different as well. Right.

So I think that's huge, man, to be honest. Um, so for you, like what's the creative process like then, right? Like from the inception of the idea of a song or a project, right? To the the execution and like you know, release like what you know, how do you work? Uh now I'm finding myself in a spot where I'm I'm not trying to finish the song like as soon as I get the beat. Um, because I've in the past, I would get a beat, and then I would be like, bro, I don't think I can make a great song with this, so I'm just not gonna touch it. Um so now I'm kind of like being more open with myself, and normally I'll start with just the hook, or I'll do like the hook in the first verse, or even if I do the hook, and then I do a um like a reference of like how I will want the verse to sound, just like a mumble track. Yeah, just like a mumble track. And then listen to that for about a couple days, and then uh and sequencing is very important to me too. So uh especially like with melodies and shit.

So once I listen to the song a couple times, I'm like, all right, this melody will definitely hook them in after the hook, put this melody right here, take this melody out because it doesn't make sense, use this melody for the bridge instead, and then boom. And then I just kind of write off of the melody of the reference track. And then once I get to a point to where cool, first verse is done, second verse is done, listen to it a bunch of times. And once I once I get to a point to where I find myself listening to the song over and over, it's like, all right, cool. And then for me, what my cheat code is, because like my entire family is like musically inclined, like literally everyone, I'll send it to like my parents. And then if they're like, nah, this is great, because they they have a certain like ear for certain kinds of music. Will they tell you like this is trash?

Nah, they won't even say it's trash. Like, they'll just be like, oh, this is good. Like, if it's like a okay song, it's like, no, that's good. But like, and you know what that means. I know what that means. But like, especially my dad, because he's like a really like heavy jazz um kind of person. And then did he play any like instruments or anything? Yeah, so my dad plays keys. Okay, cool. Uh, and I play drums if you guys didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. How about moms? Uh she she sings in the choir at church. Okay, cool. And then my sister, she plays bass guitar. Dope. You ever gotten the whole like fam? No, it sounds like a band. Yeah, I was like, I was like, wait, drums, bass and vocals. I was like, Nah, I don't think it'll ever get to that point. Just because like That'd be kind of fire. I want to try it. I definitely want to have like a song where my dad plays keys for the outro. Yeah. Um, but it's like far as far as like my entire family on like one song, I'm just like, uh, I don't know. Cause I know my dad is gonna want it this way, and then my mom, she's gonna want to sing her part this way.

And it's like, mom, like, just sing this four-bar part in this one melody, like, you know, it's just certain stuff they don't get because they're older. But they're a lot, they're like you, it sounds like, yeah, in a in a sense, yeah. They know what they want. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, fuck you, mom. I don't want you to sing it like that. I have this vision in my head. Pop starts chiming in, sister's like, no cam. It should sound like this. How did we get to fuck you, mom on this podcast? Yeah, sorry. Sorry, Mrs. Bacon. We went full, Full heavy metal just now. Yeah, seriously. That's insane. So how do you know when it's done? Is it is it when you start playing it over and over? Yeah. And you're able to like Yeah, and like when I finally get to a point where I'm like, okay, like this is great. I do want to put this out, then yeah. Does that take a while for you? And do you wear it out? Because I feel like I feel like artists wear it the fuck out. You you kind of have to, because again, you have to think of the longevity aspect of it.

If I if again, me having the mindset of I have to get the person that hate everything's like approval on this. So like if I'm that person for myself, and if I love it, then you kind of have to go with your gut at that point and be like, all right, cool. Okay, it's an interesting approach because for me, the thing we talk about a lot is that like if you listen to it so much pre-release, then release time comes, you're just not as excited about it, and you're not gonna put your full energy in the slack on the rollout behind the rollout. But is it's it's not up to you at that point. Well, some of it is the the work that it takes to like get people jazzed about the record. I mean so that's that's on the artist though. Like if if he gets to a point or if she gets to a point to where like it's time to roll it out, and it's just like, oh, like I don't care, like let's just put it out. That's on them. True. And I think to your point, if you're going for a song that people should be able to almost indefinitely listen to, which is like your bar that you're setting for yourself, which once again, people can say it's realistic or not. I mean, it's very tall order.

Right. But if that is the metric that you're saying, then I guess I see what you're, you know, what your point is, but I don't know. It's it's definitely somewhere. I just in a in talking to a lot of the artists, it's like they they just love listening to their unreleased shit all the time. And I'm like, bro, you're gonna literally burn out, or like get demo-itis, where it's like you then start hating it because you hear something and you can't unfucking hear it, and it's like you only hear that because you're so close to it, you know what I mean? That makes sense. I think that I think as much effort as he puts into the his songs and the depth that's in there, it's kind of like you can maybe stay interested in it longer. Yeah, like there's a lot to this. I put a lot into this, I'm gonna stay like jazz about it. You know, that's how I am when it when it comes to it. Cause even now, like I I got my my Apple replay back, and I didn't realize I was listening to myself so much. This were you you your top artist? I was yeah, I was I was top five actually. And then three of my songs were like in the top five songs. Okay, tell you it was in the top ten.

Yeah. Um, so I was like, that's fucking weird. I didn't realize I was listening to myself that much. Guarantee you're not alone. Yeah. I will guarantee that there's a lot of artists out there not putting their Spotify Wrapped. They're sharing all their fans Spotify. They're not putting theirs out there because it's like it will be a lot of people of like, you know, artist A has artist A as their top artist. It's like that's crazy. Just running just the repeat one while they sleep, yeah, on minimum volume. Oh no, yeah, I'm I'm not one of those artists that's like, all right, like let me play this shit so I can run my streams. I fucking hate people like that. That's annoying. And that's just not gonna actually do it. But you're gonna you're gonna make 75 cents. Like, congratulations. Yeah, yeah. So speaking of, have you guys watched the Spotify docudrama on Netflix? No. So basically it's like, you know, once again, docudrama. So it's like based on, I guess, the events of Spotify's like inception, right? Like the origin story of Spotify, how it was created, and then like the story of Daniel Eck and how he became one of the most hated people in the music industry, right? By artists. By artists, yeah. Who he, of course, like, you know, it was a big part of like him wanting to make it better because you do you do have to like realize, you know, at least the docudrama

calls us out. He was coming in. Pirate Bay was the fucking bee's knees of like free music, right? No one else was doing it. Right. So he was at least like, okay, let me make music free and legal and high quality and a beautiful, like, you know, player experience, right? For the consumer. Yeah. And like that's all good and well. But like, how do you feel about you know, as an artist, you do have millions of streams on some of your songs? Yeah. You know, I doubt that that bought you. Yeah, you got 10 grand off that maybe. I I doubt that bought you the phantom that's sitting in the parking lot right now. Nah, you must have other businesses because it's a tough game out there, yeah. For sure. I mean, a million streams is like a few thousand dollars or something, right? So, how do you feel about Spotify as a platform, right? And I guess the competitors now, like Apple Music, whatever, uh, this was focused on Spotify, but like, how do you feel about it, right?

Do you think that it's overall good for artists like you, or is it overall detrimental to the well-being of like you know, independent artists that are trying to make a career off of music? Yeah, because I mean, you you have to realize too, like, it it takes so many streams to to even count an album. So, like 1500, yeah, like, and I forgot the math, but somebody was saying, like, you can listen to like an album, like, or a song every day for like seven years, and like an artist still wouldn't make I think like a thousand dollars, like they wouldn't sell a certain amount of like albums or whatever, and like that's crazy because remember, we were at a time where you buy a CD, ten dollars, fifteen, depending on if it's a deluxe or not, or if you know some special edition shit. Like, that goes straight to an album sale. Like, now we have to we have to overplay something to even count as one album sale. And

and that's that's just wild to me. Like, even me, like with the sync shit, just like find I have to I have to find other avenues of making money from my music instead of just streaming. I feel like we should be at a point, especially as like independent artists that's still trying to get to a certain level. I feel like we should be able to lean on our streaming more so than having to like build relationships with like sync agents and like doing shows and shit. I feel like I feel like over time, because even me, like I've been in a position where like I could sit back and be like, I don't have to do shit, bro. I'm getting like 5,000, 10,000 streams a day. Like I'm good, you know what I mean? Like you especially how like things are going now with how fast-paced stuff stuff is, you um, you can't even like really relax at this point. Like you kind of have to do the drop a song a day type shit, which I'll never fucking do. I can't not even saying I can't do it, but that's just not you don't you don't allow people to really like invest in certain shit, and then because you're releasing songs so often, the like really good shit might end up getting overlooked because you have 10 other songs that you dropped after that that people would still have to like keep up with.

You know what I mean? So I mean, as far as like Spotify, like I fuck with Spotify because Spotify is really the only platform where I have hella millions of streams. But at the end of the day, it's not sustainable for, for artists trying to actually make money from it. Yeah, it's you know, the you know, spoiler alert, but like towards the end, they set it in the in the future, right? So, like towards the end of the docudrama, it's like year 2025, and it like hypothesizes what the state of everything is. I'm not gonna like give away more than that, but it was just interesting of like where this shit's still going. Like, they're you know, artists are like lobbying super hard still to like get a fixed stream rate, where it's like because the math is so fucking complicated, it's like percentages of revenues and premium accounts and free accounts get different this and that, and like then what most people don't know, and like do your fucking homework, but what most people don't understand is that the major labels are the primary investors in Spotify, yeah. So it's like this just to your point, like you know, confirmation loop or like you know, whatever you yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's it's so fucking crazy. I just it's just stuff I try not to think about because I'm a Spotify user, yeah, and that's where I listen to my music. Yeah, and I wish I could say that as much as I stream my homies music, like I was bumping your shit all the last like you know several days straight because I was wanting to prepare and like you know, just was getting into it and whatnot. It didn't help you even buy lunch, bro. Yeah, it didn't even help you buy lunch, and that's just like you know, it's sad, and I I wish that it wasn't the case, but then the argument is about like the exposure that you can get and the fans you can reach, as opposed to if we were just in a physical world where like you would have to go slang your fucking mixtapes out at the back of your truck, you know, only in Atlanta, or you'd have to be driving to other cities and doing that, and you know, whatever. So I don't know. It's I think artists are figuring out ways to do it. I'm seeing a lot of artists like doing direct sales, they'll sell their music like only on their websites. You know, um, artists are getting on Twitch where people can subscribe to them for whatever six months, six bucks a month.

Yeah, artists are doing NFT projects where people can, you know, have access to them in a certain way. And so I think it's you know, I don't think streaming's going anywhere. I think you have to kind of be on Spotify and Apple, like you said, to get that exposure. But artists should be looking at other avenues to let their super fans become more of super fans and spend more money on them, besides maybe going to a show a year, buying a t-shirt, that stuff's great. But you know, if you can allow access and certain things, I think there are people you'll find that are willing to spend more for sure. And I guess what's interesting for me is that like honestly, since the inception of the CD burner, right? We've pretty the people that wanted free music, have pretty much been able to get a lot of free music for a very long time. For sure. So even pre-internet, right? Uh, when it was like, you know, just CD burners, I remember I was burning the fuck out of some CDs, bro. Like my homie had one from some album.

I was burning that shit for free for sure. Right can't stop it. Yeah, and so then you know, then the internet comes around and YouTube to MP3. I mean, it's a classic. So I think that like we live in a a day and age where, like, at the end of the day, to your point, if people want to support you, like, you know, what are we gonna do? Like hold the album over their head and like you gotta pay for it. Like, no, like if they want to pay for it, they're gonna figure out a way to support you. You know what I mean? But that comes back to the like responsibility on the artist of like, you gotta build a fucking fan base that actually gives a fine fuck to spend money, right? Cause yeah, at this point, we can spend our money on a lot. I could take a girl to a movie and you know, dinner date over buying, you know, the physical album, like whatever. Like, there's a lot of things vying for like people's attention and people's money. Yeah. So like it's y'all's job, you know, as artists, which I don't envy the responsibility that you have and like the the task that you have of like keeping people interested enough to give you their time and open their fucking wallets, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, I've I've been in a fortunate enough space where I've had people buy merch and um my last project, I had a hundred CDs, like physical copies, and I'm grateful enough to say that I've sold all of them. So, you know, it's just it's just doing the groundwork and um putting yourself in a position to where people give a fuck. Like, and I don't think a lot of artists understand that. Like, yeah, it's cool to have really good music, but also to, like, what's the other one or two key things that allow people to really want to give a fuck about you? So, what do you think that is for you? Um, I don't I just think I'm a cool individual. Everybody loves me. I feel like um I love you. Henry loves you. I love you too. Yeah, I love you. This is just a love fest going on. Um one more time. Nah, I think at least we can all feel better about ourselves tonight. I'm going home, like, Cam loves me. My wife's like, why are you so happy? Somebody loves me.

Cam loves me. No, I I I do believe just like me being the person that I am. I I feel like I'm a very genuine person. I um I never try to put myself in a position to where people feel like I'm trying to like finesse them or do some shady shit with them or whatever. Um I'm a really like nice person too. And I think people don't see that a lot. And then people just like, Cam is just such a nice person. Like, and then it's like if I do get into a position where I get upset and it's like, how the fuck you make Cam upset? Um You done pissed off Cam. Yeah, it's like damn. That's so hard to do, bro. Um and then just like again, on top of that, having really good music and showing people like, hey, like I really care about this thing. So like if you if you guys, what's up? Y'all got ghosts? Exactly. He must have just dropped a bar or something. I hope so.

That was uh interesting. I think it was all the love that was going on. Over, Overabundance of love. We suck the energy out of the lights. Christ. Um, damn, I forgot what I was saying. But you wonder what I think it is about you, man? Because I think you need to hear this from someone who is like a fan now, right? Uh-huh. Like, I think that, you know, and shit, Ray Daniels will, you know, hate me for saying this, but like, I think it's your ability, honestly, to pull off like the fashion and like, you know, fucking modeling like look too, bro. Yeah. Like, I'm just saying, like, a lot of rappers and like artists have that shit on. Yeah. It's not that's like minimum of being able to like look cool, right? Facts, facts. But like your ability to, you know, literally look like you should be on like a fucking Gucci ad or some shit, right? Like to be able to like really put that like, you know, like real slick, you know, like just fly, like kind of like formal meets, like, you know, hip type of like, you know, fashion sense. Like, I think that is, you know, we talk about like multiple revenue streams and shit.

It is funny though, because you know, shout out to Ray Daniels, who we're supposed to have on the podcast soon. You know, we interviewed him briefly at the beer and tacos event that we were at. But he talked about on his podcast of man, when an artist comes in and and you know says I'm multi-talented, and they go, Yeah, I'm an artist, a model, an actress. He literally immediately says, get the fuck out. Because he just the his point was, and once again, I don't necessarily agree in today's climate. I think you do somewhat have to be a multi, like hyphenate to make a fucking living. But um, his point was that like you're clearly not taking your artistry serious enough. So he would actually be proud that you didn't say you're like this fashionista like model character, but I'm thinking like, bro, get that modeling bag, bro. Because like you look fucking sweet, like in you know, some of these like photo shoots and shit that I've like, you know, seen. Yeah, and I don't know this to models, but I don't think that takes very much of your time. Right. I mean, you don't have to like study. Modeling is like the easiest job. I mean, you know, like it it just depends too, because I know for certain industries, like in like the subsection section of modeling, like you do have to like fit a certain criteria.

But I feel like with the things that I've done on a modeling aspect, whether it be uh for Vans, American Eagle, Forever 21, whoever, um So you have done a bunch of like yeah, like official stuff. Okay, cool. Yeah, like and I'm honestly, you know, you've like wiped your Instagram, you're one of those characters. So I was trying to find it, bro. I hate I've wiped it for like before this podcast. And also too, you could have asked me, like, yeah. Nah, but no, but I mean, we're talking about now, yeah. So, like to yeah, so you have actually tapped into that like on an official level, not just like me looking at you like, yo, he looks like he should be on a fucking Gucci ad. Not just you crushing over there. Nah, so Abundance of Love. Abundance of love. I've I've done Vans. I've done um, I don't know if you guys are familiar with this guy named Tyler Mitchell, but he um like he he shot Beyonce for like a vote cover like of a long time ago. Um, and that's kind of how I don't know, I don't know what his situation was before or during or after that. But um I've shot with him, um American Eagle. Um I've I've shot with a mattress company, which is fucking hilarious.

Um why not? Let me see who else forever 21. And what was your favorite brand to work with? American Eagle, just because they paid me the most. Oh What? And I went with the bag. No, but that was, that was, That was a whole that was a that was a whole like experience too. Like that was the first time like I actually got flown to like a different state, and like they paid for everything. And so you felt like, oh, I'm a legit model right now. So like that that's why that one was my favorite. And also too, like So where'd they fly you? Uh I went to to LA. So I was I was in LA for like a long period of time, but it was funny because as I was transitioning back to Atlanta, they're like, oh, like we need you in LA. So I was like, all right, cool. Like, I guess I'll just go back. Yeah, I guess LA does not want me to leave. No, um they're calling you. So that was really cool. We ended up shooting in um Topanga, which is like Boy Meets World.

I was like, Topanga Lawrence. I was like, wait, Corey Matthews girlfriend. Yo, are we dating ourselves? I think we are. Yeah. Okay. No one, none of our audience has got any fucking clue what boy meets World is. Probably not. No, I'm I'm familiar. I wasn't even thinking. Yeah, I'm I'm not that that young. Actually, there's yeah, rappers have songs. There's a song called Topanga. Uh, yeah. She was trippy red. Yeah. And he's younger. She was thick and hot. Like we were into it for sure growing up. Yeah. She was one of my crushes, definitely. I definitely don't know what she looks like, but I'm I'm familiar with the name and Boys Meets Boy Meets World and everything like that. Um it's also a city, apparently, though. Yeah, it is. In um in California. It's like right off the coast of what what beach is that? It's like closer to Venice. Yeah. And then it's Santa Monica right there. Yeah, and it's like a straight shot up, like through these fucking like mountains and shit. Like it's such a cool like view.

And that's one of the reasons why I love LA. It's like it's all every time I go and every time I'm there for a long period of time, I always just find something new. And I have to say this just because we're doing this podcast. I compare LA to like GTA 5. And no, not GTA 5, Red Dead Redemption 2. And then I compare like Atlanta to like a PS2 game. So when I say that, with LA being like Red Dead Redemption 2, it's like you can be out there like doing your main quest, and then you'll just like fall into some side quests that can help you like later in the game. Like I swear to God. Yeah. Like I'll So what happened for you that made you draw this parallel? So like I'll anytime like I'm in LA, like I'll just randomly be in a room with somebody, like, or I'll just hang out with some friends, and I'm like, oh, like we're finna go to like this person's house. And it's like, what the fuck? Like, how do y'all even have access? They just invited us. Like, I met them last week, and like I got cool with them, so like now they're inviting us. It's like, what the fuck?

Um, like you can just randomly, like, I randomly ran into Tyler like one time when I was out there. Um, like I've I've hung out with Angel Hayes when I was out there. Um I'm not sure everyone has the same experience, Cam. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure it's that's what I'm saying for. I'm not sure side quests are just popping up for the case. I'm saying for me. That's that's my experience for sure. Fair enough. Yeah. He's like, yeah, dude, you just go to LA and you meet fucking Tyler the Creator. It's just it's just running to Ben Affleck at coffee every time. And then it's like those those things that happen, they end up like helping you later on, like whether it be that year or like next year, just building a relationship with that person. It's like Red Dead Redemption. It's like, oh fact, I fucking ran into this fucking drunk old guy in the mountains, and he gave me like two gold bars, and I was able to buy the horse that I needed to finish this mission. Are we talking? Are we still talking about your last trip to LA or what? No.

I was like, do we switch to the video game or real life? No, that's that's funny, man. No, I mean, I I think one one thing I will say is that like planting those seeds though, because I mean, shit, we're even realizing it, bro. Of like shit that I was like doing and like even shit that Henry's been doing, like whatever, from like a while back. It's like some weird things start to happen, like if you actually like you know, genuinely put yourself out there and like you make the effort to go to these things that at at face value might not look like shit, you know? You're just going to a homie's house, and then it's like, oh well, actually, my other friend was here and he knows this, but you know what I mean? Like, you just start to put yourself in these positions where you know it there's no guarantees to any of this shit, right? Like, I've been on tons of meetings or like calls or gone to events, and I've met no one important to this point, right? That I haven't seen any return on certain things I've done yet. But like once again, there's other things where it's like I had no idea that that person was gonna end up being this, you know, over here, or know this person or whatever, right? Exactly.

It's even like you saying you got lucky getting the sinks, you know. You were probably just putting yourself in positions planting seeds to get lucky, you know. You can improve your chances of getting lucky, you can't force luck, but you can, you know, yeah, improve your odds. Yeah, exactly. I mean, because you know, your homie that that you shouted out, like she had just put you in this play, but like you probably never knew. I didn't even realize that one, she could even pull some strings like that, and then also too, like I didn't even know like that she had access to these people to even have that even happen. Yeah, so exactly. So, once again, it's like you just are living life, and of course, like I think the the biggest thing we talk about is that like you gotta just be aware, bro, of like a door that might be like sort of cracked open, or like you hear it unlock and you gotta just like try and open it, you know what I mean? Like you have to attack it, and that's what I'm learning, or I've I've learned, especially within the past year, year and a half. Like a lot of times I feel like I'm not qualified just because I don't have the accolades, I don't have like the cosigns or whatever.

But sometimes, like, like you say, when you you hear a door unlock, even if it's not open, fuck it. Like, I'm at least check it out. Yeah, seriously, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. It's a good one. Well, Cam, we love the music, big fans. We have entered a final segment of the uh podcast here, Henry. Where are we at? Yeah, see, Cam actually researched the show. Cam actually watched a fucking episode. Shout out to all of our other guests. I watched three, actually. Wow. Which ones did you watch? Um, and these are these are all homies, so I'm a little biased, but I watched the the surf one, the Ben Riley one, and then the Suave one. Fire. Great episodes. All of them great episodes. I didn't realize how long ago Suave's was. It was early. Early, like 19 or something, bro. Yeah. 82. 82. This dude's a full year and change uh, you know, in the past. It's crazy. Indeed. Because I was texting him earlier and he was just like, yo, how's it been going? Like, podcast is crushing it. And I was like, yo, I just could I just tweeted all of our old episodes out because I finally was like, yo, let's use Twitter. Even if it's just that I I at the guests so that they retweet it.

Even if Twitter isn't about to fucking collapse. Yeah, well, shout out to Elon, but regardless, hint hint, by the way, for question coming up. Exactly. So regardless, I was just like, all right, yeah, bet, I'm gonna just tweet all of our old episodes and like get you know the artists or the guests to retweet. And I was like tweeting at Suave, and I was like, oh shit, like episode 19 or some shit. That's crazy. Wow. yeah. Well, so I don't have to explain this to you. Short answer, this or that. Word association. Let's get it started. Let's do it. Let's get into it. You can choose either your favorite producer, engineer, or videographer to work for free for you for the rest of time. Which one do you choose? Videographer. Probably the most expensive, I would say. Exactly. Yeah. Cam, you just bought Twitter. God, wild. What is the first thing you do to improve the company? Get rid of the bots.

Uh you gotta get rid of the bots. I think Elon's that's what he's doing, that right? I think he's gonna be able to do it. But keep the porn, right? For sure. Okay, good. Uh no comment. Henry and I are like, please, Cam, keep it. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, for, for those that indulge, I don't indulge personally, but I'll keep it for you guys. He is a man of God. No, he's a man of God. First Amendment. He's an American as well. Is it speech the thing that we're looking for here? I think video could be. All right, we're moving on. Anyways. Cam, what is the first day of the week? Sunday. I agree. See, this is gonna be a good one. I think the answer is, we're gonna do a compilation later. It's gonna be pretty split. This could be another potential uh future compilation. Do you put ketchup in the fridge? Yo, his face. Me personally, I don't know.

After you've opened it. Still out. Oh, so after I've opened it, yeah, of course. That wasn't part of the question. Well, I don't add to my question. I just want to know. Yeah, it's not important. it, of course. Not important. Of course, he says, see? Yeah, of course. Okay. Cam, how many holes are there in a straw? Just two, bro. It's an interesting one, though. It's two. Or is it one really long one? It's one really long one, but because, see what I'm saying, because, but also too, like, because of the sides of it, it's it's two holes, regardless. Like, I understand. Because essentially, too, when you think of a hole, like, for example, like think of a snake hole. Like a it's just one way down. A rabbit hole is one way down. A straw has two openings. Because it opens on the other end. Exactly. Okay. See, this is a good one. He's breaking it's holes for dummies. I didn't want to hear broke that down for us. I didn't want to hear the logic.

I was like, oh, yeah, he's got a good point. A good point. Cam, 16-year old. Cam has just moved in with you as your roommate. So Shaken Bacon. Shaken Bacon has just moved in with you. Wait, was that sophomore or junior year? Go ahead. What is the first thing you argue about? Make songs, make more songs. Oh, slow to like it. For sure. I thought it'd be like some petty roommate shit, but that's actually motivating. Make your bed. Nah. Oh no. Clean up your shit. Bacon. Bacon. Cam, on a scale of one to ten. Rate Ben as an interviewer. And don't lie. 9.8. Oh, fire. Because he I will give Ben credit. He um he did the research as far as my initial rap name, and then also to the group, which I literally that's so again. I was in two rap groups.

I don't know if you if you knew that, but that specific group, I that's I don't tell nobody about that group at all. Tell me later how you even figured that out. Yeah. I'm I'm curious. I'm good. I'm curious. I would have I would have assumed the second group you would have figured it out, but that first one, I don't I don't tell a soul about that group. He's good. He's good. That's what I'm here for. Cam, you must get rid of three states. Which states do you delete? Maine. Always Maine. Why? Vermont. Okay. Um Nebraska. Pretty good. I like those things. Except the lobsters in Maine. We get lobsters. Uh, I didn't know that. I just most lobsters like come from Maine, I think. I didn't realize that. I just look at Maine as that one state in the corner of the country that nobody gives a fuck about. It's that too, but it is also that. It's a pretty perfect summary of it. But when we when we do consider the lobster that's hanging out on the ocean side, yeah.

We, we, We reconsider getting rid of it. Indeed. Giving it to Canada. Cam, how many blunt wraps would fit in a standard size suitcase? As a smoker, I'm not gonna know this, but you mean a non-smoker? Yeah, as a non-smoker, excuse me. I was like, you can do that, you know it. How how big how big are we? You've got rapper friends, right? So like a like a standard size leaf? Maybe like this, flat. And then you roll it, and it's are they keep you can keep them flat. Okay, and then a standard size like luggage that you would like a uh overhead or a let's go with a checked checked bag. If it's flat yeah, I'll say about eleven thousand. I was gonna go in the tens of thousands as well. Yeah, 11,000. Okay. Wrapping up the short answer, what is your favorite curse word? Fuck Part one, part one, and saying it like that with that tone specifically.

Yo, to ask a non-smoker about the blunt raps. I was I thought it was like a it was a little uh tough. Interesting. That was interesting. I liked that one. Moving on to the this or that. Piano or guitar? Piano, flute or trumpet? Flute. Writing digitally or pen and paper? Digitally. Coffee or tea? Tea. Text or call? Text. Get a dollar every time you compliment a stranger, or a hundred dollars every time you insult a stranger. Every time I insult a stranger. He seemed like such a nice guy. I thought it was easy the other one. Yeah, I thought he was just gonna 100x his his compliments. You know, just meet a hundred more people, but amazing. He's like, wait, I can do a hundred times less work. Yeah. And all I gotta do is insult some people. Sign me up.

Lose the ability to use GPS for life. Or only be able to use emojis on social media for life. You said lose the ability? No GPS forever. And then you gotta print out the directions like back in the day. Or only emojis. You have to speak in emoji on social media. Oh, um. Ooh, yeah. I can go with no GPS. I'm really good with like finding my way. Cam, are you gonna wear sweatpants every day for the rest of your life? Or never wear sweatpants again? Never wear sweatpants again. Fuck. Wait, he's way too fly. Yeah. Fuck. Well, you're not you know, the Nike and Adidas modeling contracts might not be coming in, but see. Fuck them. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was like, yo, that's a clip right there. Fuck them.

That's what basically Kanye is saying. I mean, I don't know. Last one of the this or that. Get the identical tattoos that 6ix9ine has, or pay an extra 20 grand a year in taxes for life. Yeah, I'm I'm paying those taxes, bro. Part two. Excuse me? Should I have an update? Maybe 50k a year? No, you you had the question right the first time. Okay, I'm good with that. All right. Final part is the word association. I'm gonna give you one word. Shoe one, maybe two words back at me. Here we go. All right. Starting as always with hip hop. Influential politics. Meh. Goatee. I don't have one. Even though that's not one of them. That's fine. First thought. I like that, yeah. You're really going for speed here. Oh, that works. Knife.

Gun. Baseball. Cap. Gold. Who? Gold. Oh. Jewelry. Taco. Salad. Toilet. Bowl. W. Dubs. Lil. Tekka. OnlyFans. Subscriber. Scam. Likely. Yes. TikTok. Underrated. Last one. Squares. Pants. I'm sorry. Uh I felt like it was so much pressure. It was. Yeah. And you totally crumbled under pressure. I was going for circles. He was going for circles. Your latest release. This has been Cam the Artisan. Super dope interview. If you fucked with it, please like, comment, subscribe.

Turn the notification bell on as well, please. At one more time, cast on all social media, even Twitter now. That's right. So amongst your porn, you can look at our episode tweets. As long as it's alive, anyway. Exactly. And until next week, Henry, what do we doing? Getting out of here. We're getting the fuck out of here. Yes, sir. Peace. Bye bye. Have a bit of fine skirt.