Naj Mullah Interview: Working at TikTok | Making Money in the Music Industry

Artists I'm gonna let you guys know right now, man. You don't have all the answers. Your team doesn't have all the answers. The label doesn't have all the answers. It's a figure it out process, and you have to be open to figuring it out. Spin a rock, spin it, one more time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. I'm your host, Playback Ben here with my co-host. Outcast, H3, aka The Trap Jack Black. Trap Jack Black. Who do we have in the hot seat today, my friend? Welcoming in on episode 78 of the One More Time Podcast, legendary member of Outcast, it's big boy. Can't believe we got we got big, man. This is crazy. Bro, this is a moment for sure for the culture. No, in all seriousness, we have AR extraordinaire. We got Naj Moolah in the motherfucking house. Naj, Diggy Big, What up? What up?

What up? What up? Naj appreciate you coming through, man. I appreciate you guys having me, man. I'm super excited, big fan of what you guys are doing. Likewise. And you guys headed to the top, man. I'm glad to just be a part of history right now. Bro, that means the world for sure. So, absolutely. He is the US AR at TikTok. Did I get the title correct? US AR manager at TikTok. US A and R manager at TikTok. Yes, sir. What does your role actually consist of, right? Like what do you what were you brought on to do? Because I feel like ARs nowadays have a very different role than they did, say 20 years ago, you know. And I think that some something like an AR at a social media platform, those out there might not understand at all what it is that you're supposed to be doing in your role. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, just to keep it kind of discreet, because things are still building right now, you know, the company is still figuring out a lot of different things. Um, but basically, kind of like what a traditional AR would do scout talent and be able to scale artists from point A to point B, you know, taking them from the ground up from being undiscovered to being the biggest things on the charts, you know, being the biggest artist on the charts. Um, that consists of, again, scouting talent, developing talent, um, putting financial opportunities in front of artists in order to benefit from their works, There's music strategy campaigns, all the nine campaigns, you know, uh connecting the dots between marketing, um, digital promo, and just being that person there for them on the music side.

I know a lot of people are like, wow, TikTok does that all? It's like, we absolutely do. So, yeah, is this related to like SoundOn? Absolutely. Okay, so so for those that aren't familiar, that's the I guess emerging distribution. arm? Distribution service. So it's kind of like, you know, um, for independent artists who are looking for distribution, we have a distribution platform that you can just honestly go sign up for for distribution to either, well, honestly, to just all platforms, you know. Yeah. Um, and that's the hopes of us again creating that type helping to create that strategy early in an independent artist career in order to build them up and get them to that next level, you know, without having to make super long commitments, without having, and you know, learning how to make the right decisions early on in their career so that they're more sufficient and have more leverage for the um, longevity of their careers. So, what would you say to an artist that like still isn't sold on TikTok? Um, I would say to an artist who is not sold on TikTok or any social platform for that matter, but specifically TikTok, um, I would say, have you used a platform to your advantage?

How much have you truly dove in and tried to, you know, be a part of the algorithm? Most of them don't even try. They dismiss it. And and that's my thing right there is that, you know, a lot of artists in today's times, I want to say they don't understand, but they don't understand how powerful social media and just media in general is gonna be for their careers. You know, I tell a lot of I say this to a lot of times for like labels and just people in the industry in general. If an artist isn't invested into social media or into marketing themselves before doing business, it won't happen after you guys sign the contract. It's not gonna happen. Giving somebody 150,000 doesn't make them post more. Makes them actually post less. Because now they have a reason. Wow. They have money to spend now. Before they were broke not posting. They're not gonna post when they're rich. They're not gonna post when they're wealthy. So my biggest thing is that, hey, artists is to get into social media, get into media, get into marketing, get into promo independently. independently, because once you get the muscle memory, once you get the knowledge of, once you start seeing the growth strategies, you'll realize how important it truly honestly is for your career. And I always say, start that before you get that big check.

Because when you once you get that big check, not saying you're gonna get lazy, but your focuses might change. Your focus is now, you know. Say if you just got, I don't know, a quarter million dollars, you know, or something like that. And it's like, okay, well, I've been needing to buy a house. I've been needing to buy a car, I've needing to get back with my family because I've been grinding so hard for so many years, you know. Um now I have the opportunity to I now I'm afforded time. And in all actuality, you're not afforded time at all. The journey has just begun. So if you're scouting talent and you find an artist that you love, yeah, but you notice that they are just not posting, they have no type of rhythm, they don't really have a social identity, you're pretty much skipping right over them, right? There's no shot. I want to say I'm skipping right over them because I'm always a talent-based guy. You know, I love just music in general, and I will never, it's it's the music business. First comes the music, then comes the business. So I understand, you know, artists dedicating a lot of their time to building their craft and becoming a great musician. Um, I would actually say advise to do that first, you know, figure out exactly who you are as an artist and um what that sound is why are your listeners listening to you.

Why do your fans want to be you? You know, that's for all the consumers of music who aren't musicians, they literally listen to these songs almost like religiously. You know, they live by these records, they they die by these records. So why are they listening to you? Figuring out those answers right there as a musician is key, number one. Number two, when it comes down to social media marketing, and looking at that step right there, I look at that and see how bad do they really want it. Because everybody knows at this point that it's not all just I make great music. I have my music has to be heard. The best musicians are sitting in somebody's basement right now. Never heard of. And never heard of because of that next business step right there. And that becomes the networking, the social media platforms, um, media, um, and just even under the understanding of business. So when you do get in those positions to be able to get that quarter million dollars, now you know exactly how to handle it and how to allocate that budget. People don't even know about allocating budgets.

Come on, man. You know, I want artists to learn more of that, but it's not necessarily an overlook for me, but it's definitely a hey, let's have a conversation and figuring out what type of knowledge and how willing they are to get in that space. Um, and you can tell right off the back kind of how bad artists really want, and when you have those deep conversations like we're having right now, When you tell them these things, and they're like, oh, man, this guy's talking a whole different language than what I'm talking right now. And it's like, I get it, but you're gonna have to adapt, and you're gonna kind of have to figure those things out. And um, you just don't, you don't overlook. If they're super talented, you don't overlook, but you do get down in there and you get to the nitty-gritty and figure out, okay, cool. Well, how willing are they to expand their minds, expand their talent, and expand, you know, their careers? Honestly, and that's really all it is right there. So makes a lot of sense. How important is it for the artist to already have a lot of that like, who am I? Why do my fans listen to me? Why should they give a fuck about me? How important is it for them to already have that kind of base knowledge of the identity from the beginning? Like, is that where you come in, or do you come in if they have that like general foundation already like established and known?

Well, I think it's about what's what goals the artist is trying to hit. So a person like me, I'm a trench baby. I love being in the trenches. I get it out the mud. So an artist who doesn't have it figured all the way out, I'm willing to work with you. I'm willing to help you figure that out, but everybody's not gonna be that guy. You know, everybody in the industry is not here to hold you by the hand and lead you to the promised land. You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make them drink. So I just me personally, I want to see that you have the capability to drink on your own, you know, and show me like, okay, cool. Well, I'm trying my hardest to get to this point. If I can just see the effort, the effort is really all If I can see effort, ambition, hunger, grind, I would allocate more of my time to that, you know, to figuring that question out. But like, what is the hunger and the effort look like to you? What is the hunger and effort look like for an artist for me to indulge in business with them? Yeah. Um, it's figuring out the who, what, when, where, why's, and what's. A lot of people are gonna tell a lot of artists, hey yo, keep grinding, keep grinding.

We always hear that term. That's what they mean by keep grinding, figuring out the who, what, when, where's why's what's and how's. I guess you could add how to. Figuring out those, not even figuring out the answer to those questions, but be willing to know like these are questions that I have to answer, and I will do what I need to do in order to educate myself in order to get into that spot. So if I see an artist who is trying to educate themselves, when I have a conversation with them, they're able to keep up to a certain degree. Everybody's not gonna be an AR executive and know exactly about everything that incorporates in blowing up artists from the music side. They're also not gonna be marketing gurus, they're not gonna be promo gurus. But the fact that they're even taking the time out to educate themselves in those departments and also able to have a, an educated conversation in those realms, it really shows me what that ambition looks like because the average artist doesn't do that. They just sit in the house, which is cool, pull up beats on YouTube and rap to them. And by all means, get your shit off. You know what I mean?

I love it. You know what I'm saying? The music is great, you know, but those hard things, those intangible things is really intangible, you know. Um that's what sets people apart. Yeah, absolutely, 100%. You can smell it from a mile away. You can tell when somebody's just working at their mom's house and they're leaving it at that, or somebody who's working at their mom's house, leaving her house. You know what I'm saying? It's a big difference, Like, for example, 78 episodes, that will show somebody like, hey, yo, I'm working my fucking ass off. Shout out to us. You know what I'm saying? But you might have other people out there who do podcasts who might do five episodes. in a matter of two years. Like, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, wow, you know they don't want to really blow up like that. You know that they really don't want that shit. But the person who comes in here every week, three to four interviews a week, five interviews, seven days a week, doing it like one more time. That's it, that's how you know somebody wants it.

You can see the amount of effort they put behind their own careers. And um it it the amount of effort they put behind their careers makes you want to indulge in that. It almost I love the underdog stories. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the underdog, I'm an underdog myself. I never look at myself as not an underdog because every day, put it this way, Beyonce's team still sometimes doesn't get calls answered. And she's Beyonce. So, me personally, I never look at it like, hey, I'm just I'm just all the way there. It's always an underdog story, it's always room to conquer something new that's going on. And um, I think that that's the warm spot that people like me and a lot of people in the industry relate to. Yeah, absolutely. Not being too comfortable, right? Not being too comfortable, yeah. No, but but like, how much does it pain you when like the music's great, but you can't smell the hunger in them. I feel like I've run into that so many times, man. Now that you're like describing to a T, like things that I've already like kind of thought about in my head of like, ah, does this artist really want this shit?

Yeah, and if the answer's no, but the music's fire, that shit like breaks my heart, bro. Like, does it is it? Yeah, it's it's extremely heartbreaking. You'd be like, damn, bro, like, damn, bro. You got like you got the music, but you don't have necessarily the other pieces, and you're not necessarily trying to figure those out. I think that's the key part of what you're saying, man. It hurts badly. It's the willingness to figure it out, though. And not to feel like you have all the answers. So, artists, I'm gonna let you guys know right now, man, you don't have all the answers. Your team doesn't have all the answers, the label doesn't have all the answers. It's a figure it out process, and you have to be open to figuring it out. If you don't want to figure this shit out, sit your ass at home and keep making records in the basement. Nothing wrong with that. Send them to me. I'll make sure I listen to them. Absolutely. I listen to everything. Anything anybody sending me, I listen to everything. But me investing my time, my resources, and my finances, something totally different. So it's a little game for the uh you know the artist watching right now. Damn.

That's all we got. I feel like we got a lot of game for the artists right now. So that's what we're gonna do. That's what we're doing right now. Thank you, Naj. Absolutely. So what was your first job in the industry though? My first job. Yeah, like what would you say was actually your first, you know? Cause I mean, you were talking earlier off, camera about like you, you know, you did the artist thing for a minute. Yeah, the hottest bars on the block. Yeah, man. Actually, I actually actually was going up. I ain't gonna lie to you. I was going up. Let's get a freestyle real quick. Oh god, Henry. Okay, okay. Nah, yo, yo, yo. They gotta pay for that. Freestyles ain't free. He's on NDA, bro. He's on the NDA. Yeah, he only does paid styles. Paid styles, paid styles. That's what we're doing. But, but yeah. but yeah, so outside of like what the motion you like had as an artist, obviously you were you know doing that for a while. Like, yeah, what what would you consider the like first you know, music industry, like on the industry side? That's exactly what happened. Yeah, I was doing the artistry for a while, and I was like, man, I'm broke as fuck. Like, I'm broke as shit. I have no.

money. He had the broke aha moment, man. Yeah, man. And um, me and me and my boys, me and my brother, who's also a partner of mine um in business. Um, shout out to Jazz. Okay, shout him out. Shout him, shout him out, shout him out. Um, because y'all were in like a group together or something. Damn, How'd you know that? Like a little duo? Yeah, that's crazy. I was trying to dig through the uh internet, bro. Yeah, yeah. So we had a group by the name of Brink's Life. If you're in Atlanta, you know Brink's life. Shout out to Brink's Life. shout out. Um, yeah. So we were doing the music industry thing, and I was just broke as fuck, bro. I was broke as hell, and I had a homeboy of mine. He was like, he was working with a signed artist at a time, and he said, Yo, bro, um, we need an engineer. I said, engineer? Is that pay? He was like, Yeah, I was like, yeah, I've been recording myself at home this whole time. So what is it? How to record on Pro Tools. Exactly. Exactly. So I go to the session, um, and it so happens that Don Cannon and DJ Drama walk in the fucking room. Cannon. Wow. I'm like, shit, this is crazy for my first engineering session. Wow.

I didn't even know how to turn the speakers on. Oh. That's a pretty important one, too. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably step one in the manual. Oh, I was just laptopping it. I was just laptopping it. And with my little small setup, and I figured, like, hey, man, you know, I know how to record. I know how to drag and drop. You're like, All you asked was how to record. You didn't tell me I needed to know how to turn the speakers on. goddamn. Exactly. That was not in the job posting. Well, I got them on, but I couldn't get a signal running through the speaker. So long story short, I actually completed the session. Wow. And I went downstairs to the studio manager at the time. Shout out to Summer Walker, who's not the actual singer, Summer Walker. Summer secures the bag. Summer Walker? Summer secures the bag. Shout out to her. That's confusing for everyone on the internet trying to tag Summer Walker, by the way. Yeah, it's crazy. I tried to tag Summer Walker, and like someone else had, you know, talked about her. Does DS, I'm pretty sure. And she was a studio manager at the time. And I tagged the wrong Summer Walker. Oh, yeah. Nice. She fucks that a lot. I was like, goddamn, it. But um I went downstairs and was like, yo, you know what I'm saying? I felt so confident in myself.

I just did a session with Don Cannon and drama bro. You were gassed up. Bro, You can't tell me shit, bro. You can't tell me Cannon. You know what I'm saying? The affiliates. I'm like, oh shit, this is crazy. So I go downstairs with all the confidence. I'm like, yo, if y'all need engineers, here's my number. Take down my number. She's like, all right, bro. So I hit her back. I was like, yo, you need engineer. She's like, nah, not really. I'm good. So she hits me back too. And this is one, this is one game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta make this a clip. This is one thing. Let me fix the headphone. Let's get it. This is one thing. This is one thing. Artists need to know, and people in the industry, creatives in general, anybody corporate, I'm a corporate creative. That's what they call me. Hybrid. I do the corporate and I do the creative. For one, getting that back. But secondly, the industry is based off of necessity. Nothing more, nothing less. If somebody needs an engineer, they need an engineer. If somebody needs an intern, they need an intern. They're not filling slots just because they're filling them because they need them. So with that being said, she gave me a call back and was like, hey, I don't need engineers, but I need interns. And I was like, damn.

Damn, not an intern. I wasn't trying to intern. Downgrade. Very, I wouldn't say very much so because interns are some of the most important people in making the music industry actually function. And they become executives almost all the time. All of my friends that were that were interning when I was interning are doing extremely big things right now. We can actually cut deals or make things happen nowadays. So It's crazy. don't sleep on the interns. No or don't sleep on the internship, no matter how old you think you are. Be very humble. Get in those rooms, figure out the who, what, when, where, whys, and whats. what's. That's what I was doing with that internship, and that's what I was afforded the opportunity to do was to figure out the who, what, when, where's why's and what's. So I'm doing the internship. Um, it's going pretty well. Eventually, you know, we we got the opportunity. I got the opportunity to start engineering some sessions. As I start engineering these sessions, yeah. But how'd that call up happen? It was just like the other engineer was late or like called in sick, and you were like, I got this shit. Literally, that's necessity. Yeah.

The other engineer canceled. So I remember you told me you're engineer, right? Like, yeah, yeah, I do. I do, I do, I do. I still have your card that says engineer. Exactly, exactly how it went. She was like, All right, well, there's a session today. Okay, it pays this much. Would you be willing to do it? At this point, I'm still broke as fuck. So I'm like, whatever money it's paying, I will sit there as long as it takes to go get this bag. Man, I'm in. So I started doing sessions. I started doing them very frequently. At this point, I started getting better at engineering, of course, and being more knowledgeable. But then I got into a session, and it was an artist who was stuck on the line for like 30 minutes. And I had a long day that day. So something told me, press the talk back button and give them advice. Yeah. Gave them advice on a bar. They were like, yeah, that's really dope. Do you want to finish helping me write the rest of this record? And I was like, yeah, sure. Like, I'm super bored in this session right now. I've been, you know, sitting at the engineer table, just clicking, like drag, click, drag, dragging things, dropping and dragging things. And um as you engineers do. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's much more to engineering, but I know. You know, I just like giving him shit. The complicated, you know, the complicated part comes after they're done cutting. For sure. For sure. No, but the but getting involved is the beautiful part, honestly. Exactly. Because you know, when you first start off, you don't feel too comfortable doing that. You're just making sure you're hitting the right buttons and moving as quick as you can. Exactly. I remember the day, you know, around the time when I just got really really good. I knew I could do that thoughtlessly. I was a zombie. Muscle memory, baby. Boom, I'm moving it around. Now I have this other time in my head where I could be thinking of, you know, bars and song structure and start when you start giving those types of suggestions. And that's that's the point I got to at that point where it was just like, okay, cool. Well, I've gotten pretty much muscle memory when it comes down to tracking vocals. You know, I have a great template. Um, I know how to use different VSTs in order to make it sound the way it needs to sound. I get it. Um, and then she was stuck on, she was stuck on the song for like 30 minutes. I gave her the bar. She asked, like, hey, do you want to help me write the rest of this record? Two days later, it came out on the radio. Wow.

Two days later. What was the song? It was a very local record. I wasn't even gonna say it, but it was a very local record. But this is you're like, I made it. Oh, yeah, I'm totally green. I'm like, yeah, 1079 is playing my words. This is crazy. Like, I and at that point, I was like, I will never be an artist again. Wow, that was when the the light switched. It hit me. Yeah. Because I I started getting splits, and I owned more of the record than some of some of the artists who were involved in the in the record. I was like, wow, so I'm gonna get paid more than the actual artist on the project. And then from there, I started songwriting and I used my resources. Again, interns, use your resources. If you're in an internship for two years, there's no reason why you should not leave with a Rolodex of hundreds, if not thousands of people that you can contact in order to build your own rooms. Yes. I started to build my own. Oh, and in that process, I became the studio manager. So that was my first corporate job was becoming a studio manager because the studio manager left. Again, necessity. They're just like, hey, bro, you know, we don't have a studio manager anymore.

You've been here for like two years. Yeah. You want to do it? Fuck it, Nosh, come on. Yeah, you want to do it, bro? I'm like, yeah, yeah, come on. I'm like, absolutely, I'll definitely do it. The necessity thing has been a theme on the podcast for sure. We've had like a DJ who is a DJ because he was working with an artist that needed a DJ at the time and a graphic artist, you know, that someone needed some art. Absolutely. So I picked that up, and then that's what they do now. So that's really the name of the game. That's a major thing right there that you're talking about. You just gotta be present, man. It's like it's like, how do you want all A's in school, but you don't show up to class? Yeah, yeah. You know, how does that even work? How you gonna be, you know, valedictorian? You know, you don't even go to class, let alone log in online to do the homework. Right. You know, so that was that whole process. So I went from studio, I'm now I'm studio managing. I actually put engineering to the side, so I'm studio managing and songwriting full time now. Um, but as a studio manager, you see how much studio time is not being used, and you have this beautiful space in front of you, and you're like, you know what? Let me just start to book my own sessions and just create reference records. You know, I started to have a pipeline of other ARs. At this point, I wasn't even AR.

I started to have a pipeline of ARs, producers, instrumentalists. So you got beats as well. Yeah. That you can write to. Absolutely. Yeah. That I can write to and that I can put together in the room. Um, and vocalist, everything. I start to realize, like, hey, there's somebody like a this it's a singer who's been singing since she's been seven. Bro, I use auto-tune. You know what I'm saying? I'm an auto-tune phenomenon, but there's somebody out there who's really talented. By the way, we have a shirt for you. If you'd like one, we'd love to give you a. Oh, there you go. Auto-tune, baby. Yes, no, let's go. But um, I started to look, I started to look at the overall landscape once I figured out what splits were and had these big resources. I was like, hey, you know, I'm just gonna put together sessions. And wherever these sessions lead me, they're gonna lead me. I started to get major placements. Then eventually I got a Grammy nomination. And then um What was that for? Um Revenge of the Dreamers 3 project with uh Dreamville. Yeah. what were those sessions like? We've heard multiple different perspectives. We've heard Jace, we've heard Deshaun, we've heard a bunch of people talk about like what those sessions were like. Lots of stories. What's your take on like from the Dreamville sessions, what that environment was like.

Man, um beautiful chaos. Beautiful chaos. It was fucking beautiful chaos. It was just like you had everybody and a mom pulling up to that shit, bro. Who was the most random person you ran into? Probably the Milwaukee Bucks. The Bucks. It's always the Bucks. It's the Bucks, bro. It's like what the fuck is Giannis? doing? Why are y'all here? Yeah, I go up to Giannis, he's like fucking seven-six. I'm like, yo, bro, I really fuck with you on the court, bro. You know what I'm saying? You want to hear these beats? It's crazy. Why would he want to hear these beats? Why would he want to hear beats? He doesn't rap. Why is he at the studio? Exactly. But it was beautiful though. It was really fun. I was, I was, I would say, I would say the Milwaukee Bucks were the craziest. The best connection I got was actually J. Cole himself. Sure. I was able to connect with him. How so? Like, how did you how do you approach J. Cole at his like massive writer's camp, right? Like, I'm sure he's getting flooded with people trying to shake his hand and you know, you know, strike conversations. What do you tell the nervous guy that wants to introduce himself out there? Well, I didn't introduce myself.

Okay. I have great friends around me who already kind of worked with his camp a little bit and kind of worked with J. Cole a little bit. And I've never asked my friends for anything. I've never even I didn't even ask for this introduction. I never said, hey man, put me in this spot. I got myself to that, to the to the camp. They didn't know I was even gonna be there. I text them was like, yo, you here? They're like, what the fuck are you doing here? I was like, yeah, I made it to the session. So one of my friends was just like, yo, Cole, it's my homeboy Naj. That was literally it. I was like, yo, what up? I'm Naj. I love that. You've been planting the seeds by just doing good business your whole life, right? You have to plant the seeds to watch the tree grow. Yes. There's only one way to do this. Everything's gonna come around full circle, but you have to put in that hard work that people aren't going to see. Like the seed goes under the soil. You're not gonna see under the soil. You just you're gonna see that little thing sprout up a little bit. You're gonna see something sprout. But in those beginning stages, you just sow hundreds of seeds that you just never know. So I built a relationship with one of my homeboys, who was an artist producer who was working with J. Cole.

He just was like, Yeah, yo, Cole, this is Naj. He's like, yo, what up, Naj? We finna go pick out some beats. Come pick out some beats with me, real quick. And it was just like, all right, I'm about to. I went in the room. Um, it's like 30 people in the room, some of the biggest names, from production to artists, and I'm sitting there like, oh shit, mama made it. Mama made it. But um, no actuality, uh still a long journey after this. But we get in the room, somebody plays his beat, a producer plays his beat, and he's a pretty big producer. And um, everybody in the room was like kind of sitting there, and J. Cole just goes like, Yo, Naj, how do you feel about that beat? I'm like, fuck, bro, like me, Naj? Me, like me, Wow. Is there another Naj? I was surprised he remembered my name from the introduction. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, wow, you remember my name. He was like, Yeah, Naj, what you feel about this beat? I was like, yo, I hate it. I absolutely hate this beat. Wow. I told J. Cole I did not like a beat on the first day I met him and the first hour I met him. And I bet he respected the hell out of you.

He respected the shit out of it. He was like, Me too. Me too. Can we go to the next one? I was like, oh shit. So he let me pick out a beat, and then me and J. Cole actually go into the room, go into a studio room together and start cutting references. Wow. I'm like, yo. No fucking way. I'm going through my shit about pre-made bars already have like fit the beat. I'm going through them. He's like, yeah, that shit hard, bro. Yeah, but boo that part right there. I'm like, oh shit, I'm writing a song with J. Cole right now. Wow. This is fucking nuts. He's like, Yo, go in the booth and cut that shit. I'm nervous as fuck, but I'm like, fuck it. I I came too far already. So I go in the booth and I cut it. And I cut another one and I cut another one. How did he know that you were also able to do that? Like an artist, too. Did you like tell him, like, yo, I used to, you know what I mean? Like, because there was probably a lot of people there that weren't gonna just hop in the booth, though. It could have just been a reference. Was it just a reference. yeah, but I'm not cutting a reference. I mean, yeah, you should be able to. If you're in a room with J. Cole, You better figure it out.

I guess I'm hopping in the booth. Yeah, if you're in a room with somebody like that, you better figure it out. You better untuck them. Just open your mouth. You better get to work. Use your vocal cords. You better do it. You better do something. Even if you gotta keep it honest and be like, yo, I don't cut vocals. Tell them to keep it real with them. You know, just keep it real with yourself. But this is a blueprint. I had been cutting vocals for my whole entire life. No, I know. It's perfect because it's perfect for you. It was like, oh, man, I'm thinking, I'm like getting nervous thinking what I would do in this situation. Like, I was like, hey, Ben, like, you know, cut that shit. I'm like, Cole, I'm not gonna cut a reference right now. In front of J. Cole. It was fucking intense. But I cut it. He was like, yeah, that shit's hard, bro. I just kept cutting references. He was like, yeah, this shit's hard, bro. Next thing you know, you know, we just kept the relationship throughout the camp. You know, it wasn't just that one studio session. Now when I'm passing, J. Cole is like, yo, what up, Naj, my brother, my brother. And it's just like, everybody else is looking like, who the fuck is Naj? You know what I'm saying? Like by perception alone, they were just like, wow, who's the kid over there who's connecting with J. Cole?

And then some of the other artists start to connect with me, you know? And they were like, oh wow, like he's actually supposed to be here. You know, he's actually, what you would say? One of us. Unlike Jayce, who I think snuck in the back door, he's like, Yeah. Yeah. He was like, I didn't have one of them golden tickets or anything. I just snuck in the back or something. Well, see, the thing is I with a golden ticket, I went through an AR at that time who was like an intern. I bumped into him at the studio I was working at, and um, he was just like, yo, I got these uh these sessions coming up with J. Cole. Like, you want to pull up? And I'm like not even believing it at this point. So I've been sold so much shit in the industry. I'm like, all right, yeah, bet. Just hit me up when it's time. Yeah, right. Let me know. J. Cole is going to be there. Yeah. Dreamville, J. Cole, absolutely. I get it. Okay. Turns out he was really working for Dreamville. Yeah. He was they were really having the sessions. He called me, he was like, Yeah, bro, like, it starts tomorrow. Are you are you free? And I was like, absolutely, I'm free. Just send me the address. At this point, I didn't even have a golden ticket.

None of that shit. I had to like literally be like, yo, I need a golden ticket. I need this because I need to sell this shit, bro. I just can't pull up and not sell this shit. People have to see, like, industry goes based off, especially hip hop and RB goes off perception as well, too. So much. There's a lot of perception. So if I can sell the perception that I'm one of these guys and I'm in, I'm in that circle, and humbly, you know, because I know I can perform. I actually do know all the guys who are gonna be there. I know Jayce. I know all these other people who are gonna be at at this camp. I know all the artists, I know their ARs because they all come to my studio. Yeah, they know my face. They just don't know what my face and what my what I actually really do. So I fought for myself to get that golden ticket. I was like, yo, bro, who's doing the tickets? Who's doing the who's doing the social media side of things? I need to know because I need to get a ticket. I need to get a ticket for one of the producers who I was managing at the time as well, too. Who is that? Arsenio Archer. Okay. Yeah, so he did a lot for Summer Walker in the beginning stages, did her first like two to three projects. Oh, nice. Yeah, from the ground up. So shout out to Archer. You know, he he he definitely helped me out with a lot when it comes down to that.

But I I eventually I was just like, all right, cool. Well, I built my own room inside their camp. Crazy. Amazing. Because I seen how it worked, it was like total mayhem. It was just like, whoever can grab the aux in the mic, it's your session now. Yeah. So I'm in a room with hella legends, like legends legends. And me and Archer had just we were just at the studio before that, and we had cooked up a record. We was like, yo, the easiest way to place is gonna be through Ari Lennox. You know, her sessions are more chill. The rappers are in there fucking elbowing each other for fucking mic time. You know, so I'm like, all right, cool, well, and rowdy probably and shit. And we've cut like 30 references in one day. So there's like a million rap songs for them to choose from. Yeah. Ari's sessions, she has like candles lit, you know. Vibes. Yeah, you hear pianos playing it too. I'm like, okay, cool. Well, I know one of the best RB producers right now of our time. Um, I write RB music. I know vocalists. So eventually I was like, okay, cool, just pull up this day, bro. And we went inside the room, it was hella great scenario. And for some reason, someone told me just to ask for the aux cord. I grabbed the aux cord.

and I was like, yo, play that beat from earlier that we worked on. He plays the beat, whole room goes fucking nuts. They're like, oh shit. So then I start humming my melodies and get on the mic, and they're like, oh shit, y'all niggas really got a record. Y'all really going crazy. Long story short, Ari Lennox wasn't even in the room. Wow. She wasn't even in the room. In her own session. Well, No. the thing is that she had just left for a break. She had left for a break, and so I'll be back in like an hour or two. I'm like, Okay. What is the perfect time for me to have the full reference cut by the time she gets back? So we get we get in the room, uh, get the aux cord. we play the beat, I hum the melodies, I do like a small reference, but then I see one of my good homegirls, baby Rose. She walks in the room, and I knew at that point I need to sell this record. It's not just about having a reference, about how can you sell that reference? So I was like, hey, her vocals are way better than mine. Sister, do you mind cutting this record real quick? Right.

Like, what is it? Oh, I love this. I have no problem cutting this. By the time she came back, the record was fully cut by one of the most unique voices in the music industry at that point. So she's like getting chills. She's like, wow. And the content of the record, she was like, wow, this is crazy. She's like, yo, I love it. And I was like, that's it. Fuck love it. I need you to cut this shit. Like, I need you to cut this record. Let's make it. What are we doing? Like, you're here, you're back from your break. It's game time. And then Baby Rose hit her with the girl, you got that shit. And she was like, So she egged her on. Yeah. Well, I was like, motivation. I was like, yo, Rose, get in there. Get in there. Like, we we gotta get this record cut, which was kind of baby Rose's is a big break as well, too. Um shout out baby Rose, for sure. Shout out Baby Rose, yo. Shout out to sis. Um, she cut the record. R Ari Lennox gets in there and she cuts the record. And then from there, the A&Rs walk in the room. they're like, wow, this is one of those ones, and the history was made. Yeah, wow. Wow, so that's self-love. Self-love With Ari, Boz, and Baby Rose. Absolutely. And that was my my Grammy nomination right there.

Beautiful. Yeah. That's amazing. Wow. I got chills. Me too, man. It's the weirdest shit. It's the weirdest shit ever, bro. You know, so you mentioned Archer who was working closely with Summer Walker. Absolutely. You end up like, how do you transition to becoming AR at LVRN, right? Like what's the transition. It was that that was the transition right there. Right there. So I never told anybody. I told one of the executives that I did music. Only one of the executives know I even did it because I was like, you know, letting them know I was gonna be doing studio sessions at the studio to make references. So he's like, all right, cool, whatever, bro. You know, it's open, you know, you can use it. I'm thank you for notifying me. You know, so I get the Grammy nomination, and I guess they were following me on Instagram, and I posted it on Instagram. They were just like, yo, what the fuck, bro? You never told me you did music. I was like, yeah, I know, bro. Like, I was just trying to figure out the who, what, when, where, why, and what, and I was just planting my seeds into the ground, and I knew something would come out of it. And they were just like, yo, bro, like, you should come help AR. You know, at that point, we had there was really no AR staff.

And um, they were like, yo, come AR and help us to build out our artists, help develop our artists. Um, because I had played them some of my reference records. They were like, these are absolutely amazing. Who are these people? They didn't know any of them. They didn't know the vocalists, they didn't know the producers. They're like, yo, these guys are amazing. How do you because I've been sitting in the studio for the past four years? Yeah. So now I have this great roll. That's like the 10,000 hours type shit. too. 10,000 hours. When you do 10,000 hours, times that by 10,000 and then times it by 10,000. You're never gonna stop. Yeah, you never stop putting in 10,000 hours. I think that's actually the wig, you know. I'm like, yeah, nah, 10,000 hours does not mean 10,000 hours, it means 10,000 hours with an infinity sign behind it. Yeah, It's like a minimum. But I think it's, that's a minimum, yeah. I think it's interesting and like unique potentially. Maybe I don't know enough AR stories, but like for you to be studio manager and like intern and being in in so many and in and around so many sessions. Yeah, that's gotta like tune the ear up. Oh, well, it fully put muscle memory into how like to actually make records.

Yeah. Cause I was in, I was in a, excuse me, I was in a studio with a lot of talented producers, a lot of talented vocalists, a lot of talented songwriters who just never really had that big break. They like they were in their mom's basement. They were in their mom's basement putting up these great records. And I was just like, damn, these guys are so talented that I learned so much from them. I also educated myself. Shout out to YouTube University. Absolutely. Um I also studied music. A lot of people don't, a lot of creatives don't listen to music. A lot of consumers don't listen to music for the same reasons why creators listen to music. I'll put on fucking footsteps in the dark and listen to the kick the whole time and like literally focus on the kick and the count of the kick to be like, oh, okay, this is the pocket. And then I listen to another record and be like, damn, this is the same exact pocket. Oh, damn, this is just you know, they don't understand like the the mechanics and the and the engineering of putting together a record. I was afforded the opportunity through the creatives, also through music studying, and also through YouTube to actually like figure out what it took to actually build a record from the ground up from scratch that was actually in comparison to the high quality records that were being made in the label, I mean in the at from the majors, but also creatively being weird. It's nothing like getting in the studio with a bunch of creatives, lighting up a J, you know, taking a couple shots and just figuring out what we're doing for the day and not having that type of pressure to be like, yo, we have to have a hit.

Nobody knows what a hit is. Don't let them lie to you guys. The camera right here. Don't let them lie to you guys. Look at that one. Right there. Yeah, right there. Real quick, there's there's no such thing as knowing if there's a hit or not. Don't let anybody tell you what a hit is or what it isn't. A hit is what the consumers choose it to be, not the labels, not management, not your AR, not your homies, not you. As the artists, you don't even debate what is a hit. You don't you don't, you don't depict what a hit is gonna be. The consumers depict it. So record that shit and drop that shit. Stop holding your music. You you'll know what a hit is when it hits. You know, so Boom. That's really it right now. That's the shit right there. There we go. Don't drop the mic though, leave it. So, so then yeah, like, you know, LVRN brings you on to do AR work. Yep. Was Summer your first artist that you started working with? Or like who was the first artist that you were kind of mostly assigned to? I mean, I I immediately started working with all the artists.

Okay. So We had no staff. All right, yeah. So who was the roster? Just for those who aren't familiar with their roster at the time, like. The roster at the time. So I started out as kind of like an AR assistant. Okay. So I basically touched all the artists because, like, you know, the dirty work that needs to get done. I was that guy. So the roster at that time was Summer Walker, Black, Drum, Westside, Boogie. Um, damn, who else did we have at that time? I don't want to miss any names, but it's already four huge ones. Already alone, you know, I was I was able to get in and um start to figure out what AR truly honestly was. A lot of people don't know what A and R. People think that A and R is just sit in the room and be like, I like that shit or I don't like that shit, and that's it. So clear this up because we Yeah, we got to, we got to. Yeah, because we talked about this with Deshaun, and I was like, so what it is, you know, what is it exactly that you guys do? And he was like, there will be no bashing of ARs on today's podcast. So like we ain't doing that. We ain't doing that.

But you guys do catch a lot of heat sometimes like, what is it that you do and like what the role consists of? Because you're right, some people think it is what you were just hinting at. So, but what is your for the people? What's your definition of the role AR? Well, as an as an AR, it's not much you don't touch. You're almost damn near like the manager because you have probably the most close personal relationship with the actual talent. You're in the studio for 16 hours a day for a year straight. You're damn near like a family member at that point. Right. So you take on so many different multiple roles, but AR is not just sitting in a room saying, I like something or I don't like something. Actually, I put this room together. Right. You are the room. I am the room. I literally got all the producers, all the songwriters, the artists, the objectives, the goals, everything mapped out and lined out for you guys to come sit in here for eight hours and act like I did none of that work. Does that happen often?

Oh, yeah. They I mean, that's why I call myself a corporate creative, because I'm here to bridge the gap between the corporate side and the creative side. I need corporate to know why these musicians need their fucking money. And I need to know, I need the musicians and the creative side to know why it takes this long to get paid. Just that simple. Bridging that gap between those two worlds is what I identified very early was gonna make me very special in AR in. I don't feel like there's enough of you, man. Um, maybe I'm wrong. Um, it's some it's some dope ARs out there. I got a lot of good friends. Well, on the like corporate creative, like I love that tagline and that's it. It's already my L LLC, so anybody, you know, it's already branded, you know. I love that. I was like because, like I said, I mean, this is to your point, the music business, regardless of which you argue comes first. You say it's the music, then the business. I don't give a fuck which one you say, you know, comes first. It's both. It's both. Exactly. It has to be each. You can't do one without

some parts both. You know? So, and that's what's to the point earlier, is like that's why so many people don't succeed. Is because either they're too hyper focused on the business, and the music sucks, to be honest, and they're not focusing on developing the sound. Exactly. Or the vice versa of they're just so I love being in the studio, making dope music, you know, in your mom's basement, you know, analogy. And then you just don't even care to know how can we actually package this shit up to be a product, you know what I mean? Yeah, and scale it. Absolutely, man. I mean, I think that's one of the most important things because I I run into just even on both sides, I run into so many people who are in corporate who did go to music school. And it's like, bro, you know music theory and you don't use it. Right. You literally are, you literally just push paperwork all day. And you know, you know how to play piano, you know how to play 12 instruments. And you're telling me that you don't be in the studio trying to cut something with some of these artists. I just seen such a again, such a big gap between the between the two spaces of being a corporate and being a creative.

I knew that there was a lane wide open for somebody like me to step in and be like, you know what? Nah, I'm gonna bridge that gap and I'm gonna bring those corporate people to the creative side. I'm gonna bring the creative people to the corporate side and figure out what that sweet balance is. And I'm not saying do everything at once. You know, you can get your music shit in order, but don't before you start, you know, expecting crazy results, you gotta learn a little about about the business in order to create those crazy results. Same thing from the corporate side. You have to understand these creators when you get in the room in order to get this hit you guys talk about. Whatever hits you guys keep talking about, you're not gonna get it by not understanding creatives. Right. And letting them do them and understanding like all this shit does not have to be forced. Let them get in the room, figure it out, have conversations, put people in the room who actually like to work together, not just random producers from West Bubblefuck out somewhere and somebody else from over here and be like, yeah, get in the room. You guys only speak the same language. You know, not like literally language. I've worked metaphorically. Yeah, metaphorically. It's just like they're not connecting.

Like A&R and it's just such a talent to where you have to even identify personalities. You have to identify how to really build a room. It's one thing just saying I have three producers and three songwriters, anybody can do that. But why are they in that room? What's your specialty? Okay, well, I got this songwriter because she's great at melody. I got this songwriter because her lyrics just put chills up on your spine. They make you feel something. And I got this songwriter because they know how to actually structure a record. Doing those three things that, which are very important in songwriting or in creating a record, I purposely put those three people in the room because I know what they specialize in. And also, they know what they specialize in, and they're not scared of that. They're not scared to play their role in the studio room in order to be like, okay, cool. Well, I do this job right here the best. Let me do that. If I can help out in these other spaces, cool, but we're all professionals here. And I put people on who enjoy working together and who understand the maturity of playing their purpose on the record and not overstepping trying to be the biggest percentage on the record. Literally, I was gonna bring this up because Storm talked about her studio etiquette, like crash course was from you.

Yeah. And it was really the biggest lesson learned from her was that that humility side of things, right? Absolutely. Being humble and understanding that you can play this role, and it doesn't need to be that you contributed the most to the song, just to fucking pump your chest up or whatever, right? It's really like looking at this of how do we help help the creatives in the room all reach their fullest potential so that hopefully we can make this hit that everyone keeps speaking of, you know what I mean? Exactly. And the thing about it is too is that you want to get a call back. You don't want this to be the only time you get in the studio room. So you want to be as a team player as much as possible because yeah, it looks like 5% right now on the back end, looks like 10% on the back end right now. But the more you're called into the room, they might bring you in for the whole project after this session. But you shoot yourself in the ass if you're not being a team player, if you're not willing to have that humility in the studio I wanna to be like, hey, again, I said it early in in the interview, you don't have all the answers. Beethoven didn't have all the answers.

He literally had a whole orchestra behind him of people who were good at their jobs. And you know, he might've been a good leader, a good coach, a good playmaker, and been very good at making music. Not taking nothing away from the Beethoven fans out there. But um I can see the YouTube title. Yeah, Nah, Beethoven sucks, Nag Moolah. Yeah, stamps it. It's crazy, it's crazy, it's crazy. But having that humility, being in that room, serving your purpose, being proud of your purpose, being proud of your split, being proud of the addition that you put into that room is gonna bring it back because once you have the anxiety of your head of, oh, I'm gonna feed my family off of this. That kills the creativity in the room. It kills the creativity. You don't want to be the person that kills the creativity in the room because you're just doing too much. You're doing too much, bro. Like, what are you doing here? Like you're all over the place. Like, yo, sit your ass down. You don't play guitar, bro. Stop going over to the guy who's playing guitar for the past 20 years and telling him, oh, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's like, and then you don't even know how to say it. Shout out a lot of the ARs, that's probably what they're saying. Hit the one string the other way you are doing it. They're not saying, oh, go go go down uh uh a key.

Or no, no, no. They're not even explaining how to properly even do it. So now you're making an ass of yourself. And now you're probably drunk and high. Now you're all loose in the room. Now you've been a chatty patty. Now I won't call you back, bro. Cause you're doing the most. But but so it seems like a fine line, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, of like making your presence known to the point of like you're valuable in the room. Yeah, but yet not over. Yeah, exactly. That sounds like a fucking mind fuck for me of like, like, you know, you want to like make sure they remember you to get the call back, because if they're building the next room, they're gonna be like, oh yeah, like who was, you know, who did that, or like this, you know, because there's thousands of sessions going all the time. So it's like you do have to be memorable. I think you have to be a thousand percent locked in on what your strengths are. Like 100% know this is what I'm good at. It's what people have told me I'm good at. I don't I don't just think that myself. Like super self-aware of both. Right? super self-awareness. Correct. Super self-awareness where you're like, yo, I am good at melody. Yes.

I am good at melody. My melody's gonna stick. Everybody knows the most important part of songwriting is the melody. Facts. So if you got the melody, and then what's the next most important part? The words. If you can do one or two of those things, drugs, He's crazy. Drums. Drums, Drums, drums, drums, drugs and drums. Drugs, drugs, jeez. Um, I mean, as far as as far as the songwriting. process. Melody, Drugs, drums. Yeah. But you know, if you can do one of those two things as a songwriter, and like from a production standpoint, if you can be good at drums, if you can be good at melody, just do your drums and just do your melody and let it stick. Yes. Let it stick. The AR has to do a split sheet of who did what and what who they're gonna figure out who did what. And if those drums is hitting, I'm gonna call you back for them drums, bro. I'm gonna hit you right back and be like, yo, let's work smarter and harder. Because most ARs are, you know, sometimes we can be lazy. It's it's the work harder not smarter thing. If you have 10 producers that you know you can go to at any point in time, and they're gonna get anything that you need to get done done, you're gonna call those 10 producers almost every single time. Why would I call if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So if I know this guy has good drums and I need good drums, I might have three three people for drums in my phone. Do You send it to all of them No, I'll shoot it to my top one first. My top dog, the one who's most reliable, the guy who's gonna So who is that? Cole, you stupid. You know, I already know, man. My boy Hollywood Cole, you already know what time it is. Yeah, shout out to my boy. Yes, sir. So yeah, so Westside Boogie, you commented that he turned you in to the AR that you've become. You posted that some Absolutely. Absolutely. how so? Like what what about that relationship? Do you think like developed your AR skills? Well, that was the first time I dealt with somebody who really pushed me as an AR, like who really pushed me, push me. Meaning what? Meaning that we gotta really figure some shit out. You know, like he makes a different, he makes like real hip hop. He makes like content-based music.

His productions, if you can hear them, they're beautiful front to back. I mean, every instrument lays in the perfect way that lays this way that goes this way, that means this, that means that. That kind it was just so intricate that I had to like really dive in and think really hard about how to build these rooms, but not not even that, but also the lessons I learned from him by the hard lessons I learned from him were where it would be like, um, hit the hit the think button real quick. It will be like love it. Get the request, never been requested to do it before. It'll it'll be like um Usually it's embarrassing because like you can't think of something, and Henry Henry will cue it. But he owned it. He will um he will push me to things like well, I didn't have the answers. And he'd be like, Yeah, what's the answer? And I had to admit, like, I don't have the answer. I just don't got it, boog, But I can figure it out. And he was like, Yeah, I respect that. I'm glad you was honest about it. He really showed me like how to have the right morals and when dealing with an artist who really cares about that shit. He was the first person to be like, yeah, nah, we're not doing that, or nah, that ain't good enough.

We gotta figure it out. And we might have went with my what my first suggestion, but we're gonna try that shit and figure it out. He gave me the process of, and this is a saying that I uh I love to say, like, yo, I might be shooting a brick, but I'm still gonna shoot my shot. He told me to just to keep shooting the shot. Like, bro, don't be scared, bro. We're gonna be in the room, but and that which I kind of already kind of knew this when you're dealing with high caliber artists, like a boogie, you see that that works. And not only just making references for people, this works in real time where you have artists who really care and want to figure out how to make a masterpiece, you know, and he just was totally hard on me like that. Like, it'll be times where um we'll go out to dinner. Well, like, we'll have 12-hour sessions, we'll be in a 12-hour session for four hours. Well, alright. Cool. Let's go get something to eat real quick. I I I I I noticed, like, the flow of it, where it's like it's not, it doesn't have to be forced. It's just so organic, and things just happen where I'll give you an example for the can't even lie record that he had with Soulja Boy on his last past album. One of my biggest things I like to say to people all the time is bro, I can't even lie.

And he got so tired of me saying that. He's like, bro, why do you keep saying that shit? Because you're about to say some real shit. It depends on what you call real shit, but I just was just like, yo, I can't even lie. Like, I'll just say what my opinion was and how I felt about things, bro. I can't lie. Like, I'm just a super transparent person. He's like, bro, why the fuck you keep saying that shit, bro? Why do you keep saying that shit? So long story short, he gets on the mic, he goes, I can't even lie. I said, it's the fucking hook. I suck. I suck. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. This is a diss track to my A&R. Because he keeps saying, Can't even lie. No. I'm so fucking tired. Don't make a whole song about it. Wow. Amazing. And we're gonna put the biggest liar in the world on that moment, the Soulja boy. Right. Whose idea was that? Um, me and Justice. Okay. Yeah, so we thought of the idea. Shout out Justice, man. Yeah, man. He wears cool pants. I've heard. Yo, talk to us about the like work dynamic of an LVRN. It's such an odd structure from just the outside looking in of like what, five co-founders originally? Yeah.

Uh huh. And then obviously they just brought in Powerhouse Amber Grimes. Yep. You know, you know, you were part of the team and stuff like that. What was the work dynamic like there? I know obviously you've moved on since, but like, what was it like with that many, you know, different types of personalities that were each co-founders of the city? I picture like a giant table with everyone sitting around it, like fucking the heads of the houses. I don't know, like you know, Game of Thrones style. Well, it's crazy because each one of the executives had their own style of being executives. So you were able to learn from so many different standpoints. So, like, justice is totally different from Tunde. Tunde's totally different from Sean. So you would you would see the different qualities and characteristics of what it takes to be a well rounded executive. And I was able to take the things that I liked about justice, things I liked about Tunde, and combine those things. And I was able to be like, hey, the things I don't like, I can leave that shit to the side. So it was a big learning experience to be able to learn from so many different dynamics and so many different personalities at once, you know, and see, like, okay, cool. Well, there's no right or wrong way to do this shit.

There's no right or wrong way. It's just the way that works. It's a way it's whatever your way, whatever way that works. You know, so I really learned that from them right there. Was just like, yo, you you gotta be able to take risk. You know, everything's not gonna be given to you. So, you know, you gotta be able to take risk. you gotta work really fucking hard. Like, that was bro. I worked so hard over there, bro. Like, I was literally working 18 hours a day. Damn. 18 hours a day and sleeping in the studio. Wow. And sleeping. I didn't go home for two, three months at a time. After a while, I didn't have a home to go to. That's how hard I was working. That bills didn't matter to me. And I having a place to stay at, I'm sleeping in my car. Wow. So I gotta make it to my internship. I gotta make it to studio manage. I don't care about nothing else. That's what it taught me that you have to have, you have to really want to persevere because it's not easy. It's not easy to make hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars in the music industry. Count that out.

If right now, if you're looking at me, it's not easy to make millions of dollars in the music industry. You gotta work your ass off like you have nothing else to do. Things are gonna be affected. Loved ones, relationships, your own person, your own personal thing that you want to do, shit, even your grooming, money, everything will be affected. If you really want this shit, you really gonna go through all that and go get your bag. Period. That's what I learned. Period. Gotta really want it. Why do you think they win LVRN? Right? Because they want it. Yeah. They just simply just want it. Nobody's special, bro. Like, nobody's injury special. Like, what I mean by that, I mean I'm not taking discredit from any other executives or not even from LVRN, but it's no brain science to success, bro. You gotta work hard and fucking want it. So that was the culture there then. Like the corporate culture was like work ethic, like across the board. Absolutely. Yeah. They put you to the test to be like, okay, cool. Well, barbecue a mildew. I know we all know

that means either you're gonna persevere or you're gonna fucking mold and ride away. And then you had you had an option. You had an option to do that, or you had an option not to do that. Me personally, I didn't have anything else to do in the world. I had nothing else to do. I didn't want to do anything else besides be in the music industry. And I was like, yo, I'm gonna take advantage of every opportunity, even opportunities that they didn't give me. I found a lot, I found opportunities. Like even one man's trash is another man's treasure. Whatever somebody doesn't want to do, you pick that shit up. If you're a beginning AR, you're an AR assistant, you're an AR coordinator. Um, if you're a studio manager, anything that's possible where it feels like entry level, take on other responsibilities that your boss doesn't want to do. You're gonna you're gonna create your value. You're gonna you and you're gonna learn at the same time. Things that they don't think they're teaching you. You're gonna learn because hey, well shit, I don't feel like delivering this project. Hey, you wanna I would love to. I would love to deliver a project. Okay, well, I ain't got time to do that. The executive ain't got time to do that shit. You wanna absolutely I'll do it?

Because now you learn how to deliver projects, learn about producer agreements. You learn about the legality side of things at the same time as learning the creative shit. So take it, everybody take advantage of opportunity. Um, and when it doesn't seem like an opportunity, it's still an opportunity. It's it's it's always opportunity around. The knowledge is the opportunity. You putting it into play, it's up to you. Again, you can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink. That's beautiful, man. Boom. Yo, amazing, Naj. We have entered a final segment of the podcast. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Where the fuck are we at? What are we doing? What we doing. Naj Moolah, we are at the rapid fire rampage. Let's do it. Let's do it. It's gonna be a three-part rampage. There were so many gems in that interview, by the way. Clips for days. Can't wait to go crazy. We're gonna go viral baby. That one was amazing. Yes. But it is this final portion that is gonna really test where we are at with this interview. It's a three-part rampage. I'm gonna hit you with some short answer questions.

Then we're gonna do a this or that. I'm just gonna give you two choices and you pick one. And finally, the word association. I'm gonna say one word and you just give me one right back off the top of your head. Let's do it. Buckled up. Let's get it. Starting with the short answer question. Elon Musk revives Vine within Twitter and offers you an AR gig with equal pay. Do you take it? TikTok's like think quicker. I got my answer. Elon hit me on the side. We'll talk. You got my number. Hit my phone, Elon. Elon. You know me. You know who I am, Elon. I love it. And you got up that bag. Why would I leave, Stay for the sink. Nah, baby. You got up that bag, baby. What we doing? We know he can. Exactly. We know it's possible. I need a little piece of Tesla. Right. We all do, man. Yeah. Throw a car on top. The newest model. No, now not just a car. I need equity.

Yeah. Don't let them fool you guys. On top. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a signing bonus. I need one of Tesla 18 wheeler so I can start my own business. Oh. Yeah. I don't need this regular car. Yeah. You gotta think about it. Smart. Electric electric trucking coming soon. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, okay. Naj, give our listeners your number one piece of advice for growing on the clock app. On the clock app. Yes. What's the clock app? Let's figure out that's what they're calling your platform. Wow, the clock app. What's the biggest way to grow? Is that like the disc version? That's crazy. That's crazy. Just throw shade at it. It's just slur. You know that, right? You've been there, right? Yeah, I was like, damn, bro. I thought it was just a hook. It sounds like a freaking slur. or something. Yeah, man. Damn. Nice nickname. The clock app. Wow. But What's the best way to grow platform? One piece of advice. One piece of advice. From someone that is in from inside. Consistency. Just like anything else in life. These are not, these are not. People trying to overcomplicate this shit. Yeah, it's not that complicated, bro. It's literally just be consistent. They need to hear that. you'll hit the algorithm eventually.

For sure. Exactly. Naj, invent an app. What would I invent as an app? Invent an app. Corporate creatives. What is it? Give us like a what's it? What do you do on the app? Um everything. We learn, we from legal to ARing to management. We give you the keys to bridge the gap between being a creative. So on the creative side, we'll have STEM players. We'll have things in which you can track out different uh stems to different vocals, productions, but just a one-stop shop to learn your knowledge for the music industry. So you ain't gotta go to a hundred books over here, figure what's over here. You ain't gotta learn music theory by going to 10 years of college at some spot going into 200,000 for debt. You just download the corporate creatives app and um we're gonna put you in a building. Damn, I'm about to rip that idea. Oh, yeah, we can partner, we can partner. Yeah, All right. We just made a deal. Corporate Creatives. Don't partner with him.

His first idea was to rip, not to partner. Yeah, no, no, no. But but you got but you gotta you gotta fuck with the people who are hungry. That's how you that's how you gotta do allies. I'm getting it by any means, Henry. You know what I'm saying? Like it. Naj, you can have dinner with one professional athlete, one professional musician, and one professional actor. Who are they? LeBron, Jay-Z, an actor. I don't really know these niggas like that. Um me neither. Yeah, you know I don't know these niggas like that. Um you know an actor. I do know an actor. I'ma go with uh, I'm gonna go with uh Denzel. Fuck it. Oh, damn. That sounds like a fire dinner, man. No, yeah, it's crazy dinner. Shit. A lot of checks gonna be cut during that night during that night. Hopefully. He's cutting me out of this corporate creatives deal already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're done. You're done. Well, I have this partner, bro. Jay-Z is gonna be. Don't worry about him. Listen. Don't even know the guy anymore. That's how it goes, but yeah, it's crazy. Fuck. Man. Actually, I have a podcast on it. It's called One More Time. You got shit. Yeah! I'm gonna rip off your shit.

One more time is now mine, man. Yeah, it's done, it's done. We'll cut you in. We'll Cut you in. We've been looking for a new equity partner. There we go, there we go. And Jay-Z might be him. Yeah. Or Najmullah. Najmullah. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Shout out to Hov, but I need that, baby. You are your ex. Let's go. Naj, if you were arrested, what would your friends and family assume it was for? Hmm. If I was arrested, what would they assume it's for? Uh probably. Okay, there we go, there we go. If I got arrested, what would my family and friends assume it's for? The bag. There's no other reason for me to be getting locked up besides making some money. And I don't do nothing illegal, but if it was something, it'd probably be related to getting some money. Like an embezzlement scheme. Yeah, I wouldn't say embezzlement. You're running a Ponzi scheme. Yeah, You know what I'm saying, yeah. Something that's a little more discreet. Yeah. Okay. This next one is uh a bit of a philosophical question. Let's do it. Is water wet?

No. Water's clearly not wet. Clearly. It's clearly not wet. Yeah, no. Of course it's wet. This next one is uh Wait. Oh, so you're saying it is? You tell me. It's your question. We asked you. This is your question. No, water's not wet. Okay. There it is. Still up for debate, but our fan favorite here. You must get rid of three states. Which states do you delete? I mean, North Dakota, South Dakota. Off back. We know that. Like, this is literally. Well, no, there's a lot of resources out there. No, I would understand. Both is you know. Well, I want to consolidate them. Okay. And make it into just Dakota. But that's beside the point. That's a little deep for them. That's fine. That's just getting rid of one then. Okay, let's get rid of North Dakota and just make it Dakota. Perfect. Okay, so that's one. It's like getting rid of North Korea. Making it just Korean. Ah, damn. Shout out to North Korea, South Korea. Why does the North always get fucking called? It's crazy. It's crazy. All right, so Two more. North Dakota. I will get rid of LA.

So California altogether? Entire state? He wants to buy it. I just want to get LA out of here, man. The traffic is nuts. I just I just can't do it anymore. It's the whole state or nothing. Okay, well, not California. I like California. Um. Let's get rid of South Carolina and just make it Carolina. Okay. All the states with two names. Y'all gotta stop being stingy, bro. Y'all gotta stop this. Y'all gotta get that shit together and become one. Figure it out. We can't keep doing that, man. It's not the Civil War anymore. It's not, yeah, exactly. What are we doing here? Bro, we gotta get together, America. Okay, last state. Last state. There's no more norths and souths for you to be politically. correct. Alabama. Love it. See, I thought he was gonna go get rid of West Virginia and let's just make it Virginia. That would have been. That would be cool too. That'd be cool too. But I gotta do Alabama because they they haven't had a football team for long. It's like one of the biggest football capitals. It's just it's just pissing me off now. Agreed. Why do you exist in this sport? Right? Yeah, but yeah, because they need to until you guys get a major league football team. Yeah. You're no longer a state.

I mean, sorry, baby. In this hypothetical world, yeah. It's been said. Sorry, Alabama. Moving on. Just because I want to see better for them in the in the football state. Okay, fair enough. Moving. Tired of it. Naj, how many pop tarts would fit in a Porsche? Um in the front trunk? Or in the car, period. This is all the information. No further information given. How many pop tarts can fit in a trunk? No, in a push in a Porsche, in a Porsche. Um what kind of Porsche though? Okay, well, there's no more information. Okay, okay. How many Pop-Tarts can fit in the Porsche? How many pop tarts does it take to get popping in the Porsche outside with a penal? Grammy records coming. soon. That's crazy. I would say one for the fact of we got one more time right now. Let's go. One more Pop-Tart. We got one more Pop-Tart right now. One more Pop-Tart in the Porsche, baby. Part one. There we go. That's how we're gonna do it. That's how we gonna do it. Is there about to be a pop tart song? Like I think we have a Pop-Tart in the Porsche? I think we should write that now.

My pop tarts are cool. My pop tarts in my book bag when I'm headed out to school. Oh God. There it is. This guy can write. There we go. There it is. Moving on to part two. This is the this or that. Part two. Let's do it. Starting with Biggie or Pac. Big TLC or Destiny's Child? Destiny's Child. Kanye or Kendrick. Kanye. Rock or he's standing with Ye, folks. Absolutely. That was a big statement. He's done nothing to me. I don't know. He ain't done shit to me. Fair enough. His music is great. It's fucking great. bro. He Makes good music. Can't deny it. Well, we're not going there. Yeah, yeah. We'll leave it at that. That's for another interview. We do a Kanye debate. It's an entire interview. Yeah. Rock or jazz? Jazz. Dogs or babies. Babies. Babies. I got one on the way. Yeah. That's right. Listen to only your three favorite artists for the rest of your life, or never listen to your favorite three artists for the rest of your life. Listen to my favorite three artists for the rest of my life.

Putting them on repeat. Yeah. Guys, these guys don't know what they're doing anyway. I guess you'd be leaving the AR role at that point. Unless you got to work for them. I'm gonna AR for them. Damn it. Hov, Holler at me. You know, you know you owe me a little check. Don't do that. That's right. Be able to see into the future or not. Because that's a scary one. Be able to see in the future. Fuck it. Taking it. Yeah, fuck it. I ain't scared of shit. I'm checking the Powerball numbers. I'm checking to see if I have Alzheimer's dementia. I'm gonna check to see where my health is at. I'm gonna see if I got cancer along, so I don't know how to do this shit right now. You know how much time you have. How much time I got right now, baby. We're gonna run it up. Okay. Ten kids or no kids? Ten kids. Mildly allergic to dust or aggressively allergic to pollen. Yeah, it's fucking nuts, bro. Crazy. That's a horrible choice, bro. Like, who wrote this? I have no part in this segment. This is these are your questions, though. Yes. They're god given. They come through me. I'm a vessel. I'm just a vessel. Yeah, you're good at this. Um, I would say, since we live in the South, too, Maui dust. Yeah.

Because it's just too much pollen, bro. Dude. I'll literally. I already feel like I'm aggressively allergic to pollen. Give me the mild dust. Couldn't do it. Have a third leg or a third arm. I already got a third leg. That's it. I got it. Leave it there. This just became X rated so quickly. Leave that. That's perfect answer. Naj's OnlyFans coming soon. That's crazy. Subscribe here. Backslash A&R. Oh, God. Naj underscore Moolah A and R. It's crazy. Last one of the this or that. Get a faced hat of a Russian flag or lose your dominant thumb. It's fucked, bro. Shit. These are intense. Lose my both my dominant thumbs, just one. Just the dominant one. Shit. Well, the tap the shit on my face, man. Fuck it. Mother Russia Part two. Mother Russia. Fuck it. man. I took the walk to Poland, man. Oh, you know what I'm saying? It's Russia, Poland, they say it's different. Similar. Yeah. Not exactly. Close enough.

They're Close in like proximity. Closer than here, for sure. Exactly, yeah. So I'm taking a walk to Russia with me. Which by the way, he's talking about like you don't know what's gonna be a hit. I guarantee Yachty didn't make that song thinking this is just gonna be a massive trend. You know what I mean? Exactly. Amazing. Last part is the word association. I'm gonna fire one word at you. Just fire one right back at me. Here we go. Okay, cool. Let's do it. Starting with Hip-hop. Naj. Kidnap. Jeffrey Dahmer. Therapy. Everyone. VR. VR? Virtual reality. X videos. It is the main. Virtual porn, of course. Officer. Lou Bega.

Wee wee wee. Like one of my favorite songs in high school. Possible hint for later. Let's see. Pooch. Pooch. I could like pooch. Uh pooch. Pooch. Cooch. Cannabis. Naj. Bruh. Granny. Sadie. Shout out to my grandmama. Shout out Meemaw. You dig what I'm saying? W. Naj. Winner, baby. Mirror. Naj. Dump. Morning. That's perfect. Gotta get that one out of the way for the day. Yeah. Chips. Rap snacks. Lil. Wayne. Mm-hmm. Full circle moment. Mm-hmm. Crypto.

Currency. Trend. Naj. Spicy. Ice. Ice I see what you did, though. I was there. I was there. You a munch. Podcast. One more time. It's one word to me, baby. Let's go. That's one word to me. And finally, corporate creatives. Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. What a ramble. Appreciate everyone for tuning in. This has been Naj Moolah. You dig, you dig. Amazing interview, bro. Yeah, it was just for fun, you guys. You guys have an amazing platform. Again, thank you for everything you guys are doing for the culture, for me, all my friends, you know, and all the great people soon to come on this platform. Yo, they headed to the top, and they ain't gonna flop. You dig what I'm saying? Get it. As always, please like, comment, subscribe. And until next week, Henry, what are we doing? We're Getting out of here. We're getting out. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace.