Da'Shawn Vinson on Managing Childish Major, Sony Music Publishing A&R, Billie Eilish Follow and More -

Coming from Seattle, you don't really see too many black people do positive things. I never really seen that. So when I came here and I see everybody like going to class is cool. Girls want somebody that's smart in class. The One More Time Music Podcast. Genuine conversations with genuine people about music. Hosted by Henry with a three and playback Ben. We're from being more coop to pants off. They buy that one more time. One more time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. Looking forward to this one for sure. It's gonna be a good one. Oh yeah. I'm your host, Playback Ben here with my co-host. Henry with a three, because Henry with an E was already taken. Henry with a three. Who do we have on the podcast today, my friend? Welcoming in on episode 60. That was my football number. Wow. Episode 60 of the One More Time Podcast. This is a first for the One More Time Podcast. It is the reincarnation of the legend, Kobe Bryant. You look a lot like him, man.

I used to get that in Seattle growing up all the time. You didn't get it? I mean, Kobe. Good. Okay, good. And you're a big Kobe fan, right? Huge Kobe fan. Yeah. Perfect. But who isn't, right? Kobe and Steph Curry. Kobe and Steph. Two legends. Yes, that's not bad. In all seriousness, we have Sony Music Publishing, AR. We have Deshaun. Shout out Deshaun. What's going on? Let's go. Thanks for coming, man. No problem. Although you have a few other nicknames. You guys talk to Rod. Go ahead. What, what you know, what do people call you? What are a few other nicknames that you go by? Rod is it shout out Rod in the building. You got Seattle. Seattle Rod. calls me Nose. Who else? What else? What are the nicknames? I heard Childish calls you Diddy. They definitely childish and Jeff gave me Diddy. Okay, yep. So obviously, Nose, I think is is referring to one of your uh but body parts. That's a good one. So he's throwing shots at you know your nose, that's fine.

Seattle, obviously, we'll get into you know kind of your upbringing in in Washington. Yeah but Diddy, I was interested in why do you think childish you know refers to you as Diddy? What about that was your nickname? Man, I took Childish to a house party when I was in college, and this is his first time hanging out with me outside the studio. So in the studio, I was pretty pretty quiet at first. But if you know me, I'm I'm definitely not quiet. And that's the time he just see me wild out. And then it goes back to the studio during Luda Day weekends. Yes. Oh, I remember those. I guess some of them they'd be like, hey man, you act like Diddy, You're just so loud and hyper. So then that's how I got that nickname. But let the record show he refused to take a shot before the podcast. I didn't take no shot. So he's on the water only. Yep. He's too old. So as much as the life of the party he is, he still, I don't know. I mean, I guess I took a shot. his business hours still, I don't know.

Yeah, you know, he's keeping it cool, making sure his uh yeah, exactly, making sure he doesn't let something slip he shouldn't. But yeah, so you know, Seattle, obviously, that's you know, paying homage to where you grew up. Paint us the picture of growing up in Seattle. You know, we're here in Atlanta, not everyone's even been out to Washington. Like, what was what was Seattle like for you growing up? All we know is that it rains. Right Seattle, yeah. Allegedly, yes. Nah, Seattle's amazing. Uh music scene is there, but not really. But my cousin, Shannon, was the first one to like take me to like a studio and introduce me to like the music stuff. In Seattle? Uh-huh. Okay. Uh big time rapper out there, and I just was with him all the time. Was it Macklemore? No. This was even, this was like before Macklemore. It's the only Seattle rapper. It was like 2008 or 2009. Okay. And uh he used to rap. So I used to go with him to shows, his studios, and stuff like that. Okay.

So that was like your first, like that was like your first time being in a studio and everything. Yes, first time. Okay, what was that like? It was cool. I just was the younger cousin, so nobody thought nothing of it. Did you feel like at home though? Like did you actually think anything of it, or was it just like a cool thing to do as just a high schooler? It was cool. I I have always loved music and I always just gave my input. Okay. When he asked me, so you're kind of wearing an AR hat, even though you had no idea what the fuck that probably was, yeah. Yeah, I did not know nothing. I did not know. I still don't know what you guys do. So hopefully we'll you know get into that a little bit. No bashing of AR in the day. Oh gosh, there we go. But so you went to an all-boys school. Yep. What was that like? Sounds awful. It sounds horrible. My mom tortured me by doing that. She told me I was gonna be too wild, so she tried to calm me down. Did she have any like, you know? What? Well, you know, was she on to something there? Like would you? Was she right? Yeah. Was she did it calm you down a little bit? No. Clark calmed me down, but Atlanta calmed me down the most. Did it really?

I never wanted to go to college. Uh I never wanted to. so school wasn't your thing. No. Yeah. No. I hated school. Not a straight A student. Hell no. I had like a 2.3 coming out of high school. Man. So, but like what were some of the myths about like a boys' school, right? That maybe weren't actually true. Like, you know, was it as bad as like we think? Eh. Eh. I mean, after school, I was always downtown, so it didn't. Really? So you were you were finding ways to hang out with the opposite sex? It was, yeah. It was cool. Okay. But we had a yeah. you probably focused on your work a little better. Not that you were focusing on your work. I mean. not with a 2.2 or whatever you said, yeah. Yeah, nah, school wasn't never like my thing. School was not your thing. But just like most music uh business professionals, you also had your little stint of of uh artistry. Yo, who'd you talk to about this? I have my sources, but like what was your artist name?

D boss, that was my artist's name. D boss. God, we've heard some really bad. rap for him. That's not bad. That's really bad. we've had some bad ones. That's that's decent. Who else rapped on here? Oh, like, oh, producers and managers. Most producers, everyone rappers that just everyone rapped for a second. That was horrible. Yeah, I mean, even Christo, who we talked about, he was a rapper. Man, he was making Christian rap. Mm-hmm. He was making Christian rap. Yeah, that was horrible. It's it's deep. It's deep. So it goes deep. But yeah, so you were in a rap group. Were you any good? Some bars, no bars? Because your name was trash, but like were you equally as bad as your name? Yeah, I was pretty bad. Okay. So it was pretty bad. So never seriously considering like artistry from that point. No, more fun than anything at that point. I just wanted to be like my cousin. My cousin was like the guy in Seattle. So shout out Shannon. Yeah, I just wanted to be like him. Yeah. So anything he did, I did. He's gonna be so happy when he sees this.

You shout out Shannon. That's a big shout out. Is he still rapping? Did he actually just sent me a song the other day? Hell yeah. So yeah. What's his rap name? Chevy Shan. Chevy Shan. That's a good name. Go follow Chevy Shan, stream all of his new shit. It's fire. So, you know, you kind of foreshadowed this. You end up going to Atlanta. You end up going to Clark, Atlanta. Yeah, my cousin, my mom flew me out here when I was a junior. My cousin Cecil is in Atlanta. He was like, you fly him out here, he will guarantee come to school here. Okay. What did you what was your first impression of Atlanta? Strip clubs. He took me to all the parties because he's a big time promoter out here. So he took me to all the parties and just had me, he had me on Facebook lit. I was like, I couldn't wait to come back. He gave me his little watch to wear, a little hat to go in the strip club. with. Okay, a little drip. Threw some money. Okay. And I was sold. I said, I'm going, I'm coming to Atlanta.

Would you go to Magic City? No, I didn't get into Magic City. I tried to go Follies? I tried to go to Onyx. I threw on my hat. He told me, take my hat off with them shades. Oh man. I was 16. He said, he's not getting in. Dang. So we went somewhere else. It was fun though. Yeah, because you still got like a young face. So I can I can only imagine at 16, you were just like me. I mean, I'm I'm 31. And so you can imagine what I looked like when I was 16. Hell no, I'm not getting in any strip club. Nowhere. I didn't get in, but he showed me a good time, and I I was I couldn't wait to come back. You were like, sign me up. for this. Yes. I applied. And Clark denied me. So how'd you end up getting in? Did you pay him? Did you bribe him? Nah, my cousin had to go up there and beg him to let me in. Cecil? I'm like, How did I get, in? I'm Like, how did I not? Then I go to school and I meet people like Rod and people like that. I'd like, yo, how the hell did I not get in? Shout out Rod and his GPA. Apparently was in the ones. That's amazing. I'm like, yo, How did I get here?

So yeah, what was Cecil doing at the time? He said he was promoting like parties and stuff. Yep. He's a promoter in Atlanta. Okay. So was he doing like music parties or two? Like events? Okay, so just nah. I had gotten into music. I did my first major at Clark was engineering. With a with a two-point. No, at Clark, I was Dean's List my first year. What? Wow. Yeah, I was. I didn't have no distraction. In Seattle, it was too much distraction. But you said you wanted to go to the strip clubs and stuff in Atlanta. Yeah, but I couldn't. So I didn't have Yeah, they didn't let him in. I was just like, you had nothing else to do besides studying. No, I was in the library every day. Really? Nice. Yeah. I was Dean's list my first year. Wow. Yeah. Was your mom like what the fuck happened? Everybody was. I thought you were going to... Everybody was like Dean's List. Oh my gosh. So I was, and then I had engineering, but it was all like core classes. So it wasn't difficult. Then I didn't like engineering. I I couldn't get with that.

Then my mom was like, you gotta do computer science, something that is gonna get you a job. Mm-hmm. So I did that for a year. She's smart. It definitely would have been That's true. It was horrible. But it definitely would have been. It was the worst decision because I wasn't really into it. So I would do good in all my core classes, but my major classes, I was bad. I didn't really, I wasn't into it. Yeah. So then my cousin was driving one day. He was like, What do you really want to do? I was like, I want to do music. And then he introduced me to PK. And then PK took me to DTP. So he dropped me off just like that. Dropped the kid off at the pool. He dropped me off. And then... So, but like coming from Seattle, I mean, I've been to Seattle multiple times. I mean, A, there's like no black people in Seattle. There is. Is there? Yeah, we just all know each other. We all family. It's like a very small Very small. black community. Yeah, yeah, super small. So then going to an HBCU in Atlanta, Georgia. Big shift.

Did you fit in? Like, or like, was there like a culture shock at all kind of coming here? Definitely a culture shock. Yeah. Yeah. But it was it was good though. Cause I don't know, you find more people that are ambitious and stuff. Like you, like coming from Seattle, you don't really see too many black people do positive things. Mm-hmm. Interesting. So I never really seen that. So when I came here and I see everybody like going to class is cool. Yeah. Getting good grades is cool. Girls want somebody that's smart in class. Like in Seattle, it was the opposite. That's it. Yeah. That's why you're in the library every day. Yeah. So now we understand why he was going to the library. It was like, damn, like it's that's when I learned like it's cool to be smart. Like, yeah. That whole connotation of being like the dummy and not dumb, but not applying. Yeah. It's not. That's just that's just whack. Yeah, that's shit. Yeah. No, it's interesting just because you know, I could imagine that, like, going from being a super minority to being an overwhelming majority. Yeah.

Like that has to be like a, you know, yeah, a psychological. It definitely was, but I got I adapted to it well. I found like friends, like my first friend that I met in Atlanta was Rod. Yeah. Uh he was my sweet mate. Yep. And then we just, yeah. That's dope. What were you? Like, you know, was the style different? Was like the, you know, uh, you know, other parts of the culture different, you know. what I mean, like, did you show up and like everything was way different in Atlanta? Yeah, I showed up with baggy clothes and stuff. The swag was totally different from like the East Coast swag. Yeah. Like West Coast swag is like YG, socks, baggy clothes. Like, it's totally yeah, it's different. It's different. Like, they get mad at me now when I go back home. They're like, you don't dress like us no more. What are you dressing like? Yeah. So and you had a mohawk. I didn't have no mohawk. That's a lie. It's a lie. That's a lie. I I had an afro when I first got there. Rod is saying different. I don't know. I don't know. We're gonna have to get

picture evidence of Deshaun as a freshman at Clark. Rod shoot us some pics. Yeah, please. Please. So I had an afro. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So you mentioned this, you know, briefly. Your first job, I know you had been in the studio and shit in Seattle with your cousin and whatever, but like your first job in music was, you know, PK taking you and introducing you to DTP. Yeah, I blew up PK's phone when he gave me his number. I just kept texting him. For those that don't know, who is PK? Paris Kirk. PK is a tastemaker, AR. He's the GOAT for real. Love PK. Shout out to PK. Shout out PK. So he introduces you to the DTP family. You end up getting an internship there. Tell the people like what were you doing? The first time Food runs. First time I came in there, I was in the room with it. Chaka, Toonday, Sean, and Childish and India Sean. And Childish had just had his hit. You ain't even know it.

Yeah. Oh man. Toonday classic record. Toonday had uh OG Bobby Johnson. Yes. OG, Bobby? Johnson. Oh, yeah, of course. Toonday had that. Yeah, Toonday and Sean had that. And yeah, so that was like my first day. And it was in Shaka's office. It was crazy. It was a great first day. I was shocked. I mean, I was quiet. But let's be serious. You weren't going in there like being AR. Hell no. What were you doing for those that you know need to know what the journey looks like? Let Jay let Jay Jay punk me all day into food runs and doing whatever they asked me to do. Sweeping the floor. Sweeping the floor, Sweeping the floor. scooping up dog poop. Whose dog? I don't know. Rod why there was uh uh a manager. Wait, it was Ludacris' dog. Nah, Rod, Rod's his name. Rod's the manager of the studio. He had me doing all types of stuff. Yeah, and getting tortured by Well, not tortured, but shout out 2-9. Shout out to 2-9. So 2-9

was working a lot out of DTP studios at the time. Yeah, DTP was. It was 2-9 at the front room and childish at the back. Okay. And then I don't know when did Court and then Court was in the middle, Courtney Stewart. From right hand co or whatever, fucking Khalid's manager, I guess, or label or whatever. I was with Court every every day. Wow. So this is hilarious. I hit up Courtney asking him if he wanted to come on the podcast. And he just liked the message. I'm like, Court. Court. Come on, bro. Come on out. We'd love to have you on the podcast. Court's the guy. Exactly. Deshaun. I was with Court every day. Well, it sounds like you can make the podcast happen. So you want to nudge him in that. direction? I don't think Court does interviews neither. Well, but neither do you. You didn't either. And then here you are. I don't know how y'all got me here. Yeah. I was gonna flake, but then I was like, I know he he he was an hour late, I can attest. I thought he was gonna just not show. Um okay, so but like how did you carry yourself, right? Because you're sweeping floors, you're cleaning up dog shit, right?

Like, did you carry yourself though as someone who didn't want to do that? Or like, you know what I mean? Were you trying to be the best? I just did everything. Yeah. You were just trying to like. Yeah, I was just doing everything, whatever they needed me. I didn't really care. Yeah, because like, you know, I even asked to go on uh to South by Southwest with 2-9. I wanted to just do anything. Yeah, anything to get some type of experience. Pump the gas in the sprinter. Man, I was I would have did anything. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, for interns out there, right? Someone who's coming in, getting an internship at a studio, like, how would you recommend? Because I feel like it's maybe, you know, you don't want to be that guy that's like asking for too much too early, right? Like, can I, you know, what would your approach be? You know what I mean? My goal was to always say yes. Mm-hmm. I just always say yes. I never said no. Cause then from there, you never know who you might meet. Yeah. Or who might like you would never know. So I just always say yes. Opening yourself up to the most possible opportunities. Yep. Basically, yeah. Because I'm even thinking, like, if someone asks you to like, hey, I need you to take this dog out and clean up their shit, that dog could be the dog of I've had to pick up the shit. I ain't walking no dog.

Okay. Okay. I'm scared of dog. So you didn't say yes to everything. huh? I don't ask a dog. No, they never asked me that. They just told me to scoop it up. Okay. Okay. Okay. They never trusted you with the dog walking. Man, no. Just the poop. Nobody had a dog up there. Thank goodness. That would have been my last day. That's funny, man. I would have been like, yeah, gotta go, y'all. That's it. So so basically just be like all in. Yeah. Because you never know if you're saying yes to enough like responsibility, what they're gonna give you next, I guess. Is that kind of good? exactly? And you know, I mean, it's all about building relationships. Like some of those relationships that I built back then, um are just now get to start to reap the the benefit of it now. Yeah, they're long term plays. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So you never know. how much do you feel people like look at it differently though? Do you think that's a big problem for people coming in this game? That they look at it very short sighted. Looking at internship differently, or just relationships, right? Of trying to get something out of it. Cause I mean, you know, arguably, this has been a while. I mean, you're, you know, you you did that like what, six years ago, type shit? It's about to be, I was let down.

Maybe eight years ago? It's about to be 13. It's about to be 10 years. Yeah, like almost 10 years ago. And you're saying that you're just now like reaping the benefits. So do you think a lot of people, you know, is that like a you know, a gem for people out there is to like not try and maybe like exploit those types of relationships. Nah, You just gotta build with people, like naturally. And I think that's one of my best gifts is I could build with somebody without immediately expecting something to return. I don't, I mean, if I do something, I don't expect nothing from it. Yeah, genuinely not expecting anything. And you just gotta help people out. Yeah. And that's really what my job is now, just helping others and you know, yeah, Servicing others. Servicing. Yeah, no, I was gonna say, I mean, your, like IG bio is about like serving others, right? Like how important is that service-oriented like mindset for you? Good, because I came up under managed under managers, so Jeff, Chaka, Jay, Aisha, like their management will label and management. So their whole thing was making sure, like servicing the acts.

And then one thing that they always said was I I work for you. You don't work for me, so I do what you tell me to do. Right. And I think people get that kind of loss. Yeah, I've I've kind of likened it to, you know, the artist or the client, you know, producer, what have you, is the CEO. And I look at a manager sometimes as like the COO, like the chief chief operating officer. Exactly. CEO has like you you gotta have the vision, you gotta know what you want to accomplish. And I'm here to execute your vision, correct? Exactly. Yeah, like tactically speaking. I can't put my vision on you. Yeah, I go as far as you go. Right. Yeah, yeah. Have you struggled with that over the years, though, as far as like wanting to impose your what you hope for the artist or the client? You know what I mean? Yeah, I think everybody falls victim to it because they wanna, they want to see them what they want them to do what they think they should do. Yeah.

And artists, and I feel like artists sometimes get comfortable in what they are doing and not what they need to be doing. So it's like a tug of war, I guess, if I'm saying it right. How do you inspire them, right? You know what I mean? Like, because you're right, a lot of clients. I mean, shit, we go through this all the time of like he's do, you know, because I work with Henry, I mean, he's doing certain things, and it's like I have these big, you know, dreams he does as well. But like, I have certain things that I think he maybe should be doing or whatever, right? Yeah. How do you kind of navigate those waters? You know what I mean? Two for one. You give him two, you give him one. That's what you mean by that. Like, you do you get to do two things you want to do and give me one. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only way, because if they're not happy with what they're doing, then are they gonna give it their full? Yeah. They're not Nope. Never. oh my gosh, that's huge. So it's like you gotta you gotta satisfy them with what they want to do, and then be like, yo, this is what we need to do to help you progress in your career. I've heard that with like actors, they'll say like actors gotta do like, you know, two movies, like that they they might not want to do or something, and before they get the one that they're passionate about, you know, you gotta like you gotta kind of play the game a little bit to earn the the one that's like your passion.

Is that straight out of entourage? I'm pretty sure Vincent Chase. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Vincent Chase had that exact fact. I think that's where I got it from. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure E was like, yo, you can do these things, but then you gotta give me like the studio, you know, big fucking Marvel movie. That's where it got it from. Yes. No, but it's true. Yeah, it is. Yeah. No, it's interesting because I mean, you know, you kind of hit on something as far as like what I talked to Henry about is like, I need you to do whatever it is that when you wake up, you're so fucking excited to do it that I don't even need to remind you and inspire you, right? Because you know, you're absolutely right. Like, they gotta be waking up and being so jazzed about whatever the fuck it is that they're up to, you know. what I mean? They gotta put it, but then at the same time, sometimes they don't like what they need to do. So it's like Because it's a lot of times like. or it's the bullshit. I don't know, make content, but then after they do it, yeah. Trying to get this guy to post on TikTok daily is like a goddamn act of Congress.

Yeah, I deal with that. Yeah, That's hard. But it's like you gotta do it, yeah. And it's like you gotta look at it as a job too. I mean, I'm sure. I mean, anybody in their job, they do stuff they don't like to do all the time. For sure. There's no way I like doing everything I do, but it's stuff that has to be done. And when you put it in perspective, like doing stuff like that is way better than you know, some other stuff that Yeah. Yeah. You just needed a job, like sitting at a desk or whatever, yeah, like doing a little TikTok or doing a song that you might not feel strongly, but it might help your career a lot. Yeah, so it's like you know, you gotta give and take. And managers gotta throw fuel on the fire. They're not, they shouldn't, they can't start the fire. Yeah, we can't, yeah. No, fire's gotta be there. Yeah, the fire gotta be there, and then they help no matter what. Yeah, nobody you gotta pour into yourself, and then you have the labels and managers that are gonna put the fire on it. Yeah, no, it's huge for sure. So, you know, you kind of mentioned childish was already working out of DTP DTP as a producer, yeah, but like you know, you're sweeping floors and picking up dog poop. Like, how did you actually, you know, how did the connection first form? I stayed late all the time.

And Childish was becoming an artist, so he was doing like hooks and stuff. So, like, before he'll let anybody hear it, he'll let me hear it. Cause I was the only one in the studio late just sweeping and stuff. So he used to let me hear all his music. How honest were you at that point? Very honest. Yeah, even if you didn't ask if you didn't like something, don't ask me my opinion if you don't want my opinion. Yeah, now I'm not just gonna volunteer my opinion and be like that's wack, or that's nah. But if you ask me that, I'm gonna tell you at that point, or still to this day? Always. All the time. Okay, so even that's how we built our trust. Yeah, I told him, nah, that's not it. Nah, and there's some songs like uh I like He was one of the third songs he ever recorded. Okay, wow, yeah. Like definitely first five. Yeah, what in his artistry then? Yes, that song was amazing, yeah. No, that's and he and he trusted you when you said that because you had told him that other songs weren't it. Nah, so when you told him that that one was it, it's a lot more believable.

Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's just about building trust with people. So he was producing, but starting to do hooks and like yeah, kind of starting this, you know, transition into artistry, yeah. On the SoundCloud wave, okay, okay. With Kurt and Jace. Okay, Jace did catfish, Kurt did child childish, I think. Okay, and so, like, what did you think you could bring to the table? Right? Like, I don't know. Nothing. I didn't I didn't know it, I didn't know. So it wasn't even that thought out at all. You were just giving your opinion. Being me. What did he see in you then? Because like I said, I mean, arguably, you have no experience. None. Literally. Confused by everybody else was too. Yeah. So what do you think it was? It was when he seen me work a room. I could get to like the way I work a room and the way that people gravitate towards me. And me being able to keep up with relationships.

I think that's probably what it was. Okay, so he saw the people. That's a challenge question, but I think that. No, I asked him. So I know the answer. I'm just curious. No, I mean, it was he actually mentioned that that party you took him to. As as like, you know, shallow as that sounds, it really was like he saw you in your professional environment. Yeah. But then he saw you taken out of that, and he was like, okay, shit. If he can do that just in a normal social setting, he can apply that to he needed someone to be going to bat for him and like being in the places he needed. Because he's the opposite of me. Yeah. Opposites attract. He did seem like that. Yeah. Yeah, he is. Yeah. That's why it works. A little more reserved. Yeah. Yeah. At times. Yeah, but I'm more of the outgoing one. Exactly. And like to be out a lot. Yeah. I mean, well, you know, shout out to you. I mean, it was really cool. I kind of asked him a question of okay, so of the successes, like the big wins that you've had in your career thus far, right? I I asked him this question.

I said, what would you attribute maybe like Deshaun to specifically, right? Like, what were some of Deshaun's big wins for you? He literally said everything. Wow. That's my dog right there. man. That's huge, man. Because I mean, look, not every manager is out there actually really heavily, heavily involved in creating a bunch of the opportunities. He was very vocal about like, you've been that for him. You've been that other that that you know, yin to his yang type shit, where literally he were Holy and I was my brother. Yeah, I think me and Child was together four years, five years. What he just left Atlanta? So he just moved in January. So he just moved out to LA from Atlanta? Uh-huh. So that's 2022. Okay, wow. So that is you could say 2016. That's six years every six five to six years every day with somebody. Yeah. At least 300 and 300 days out the year. Yeah.

And but you know, during the times where like uh the music industry shuts down in December, he used to come to my house for Christmas. Wow. Wow. So even then, even holidays. We was always together. Yeah. So, like he used to come stay at my mom's house on Christmas, and she loves him. She actually just flew out to go see him uh a few weeks ago. Do you think that, and and I'll kind of ask you this, you know, in two parts. First off, do you think that that is a really good recipe for most artists or like most clients and their managers to be that personally close as well? Or just for y'all? Yeah. I mean, it just depends on the relationship. Yeah. I think it just depends on, on the artist and and the manager. Like, I don't know, like where I'm going now in my career. I can't say that I would be attached to somebody like that. I mean, like that close, because we were like literally coming up together. Yeah.

So I think like the dynamics change the like the farther you go in your career. Yeah. So you kind of recognize that maybe not getting that personally attached. No, is it? I want to get personally attached, but with the schedules and like when you get older, it's harder. Yeah, when you get older, it's it's definitely harder because you got families and stuff now. Right. Yeah, he just had a kid. We bonded over that. I have a I have a three-week old son. Yeah. Congrats. Thanks, man. And he was like, he goes, Ben, I promise it gets better. Just get because you know, his kid is like seven months, I think. Yep. Yeah. Uh, because you know, she, she or he? She. She was born in December, I guess, of uh of 2021, I think. Or October. Okay, yeah. So, like, you know, seven months or whatever. No. I'm sorry. Eight months. Yeah. Okay. and you know, so he's gotten out of that like initial newborn phase, and he was like, I promise, Ben, just like power through, man. Yeah, you're your balls deep in that phase right now.

Yeah, I like shouldn't even be doing this podcast right now. He was like, Man, I'm tired. Oh my god. I'm a hundred percent tired. I think I think it's just hard when you get to uh adult, but it can still work without that level you think of personability. No matter. I think you gotta be personal with your client to some level, yeah. Yeah, of course. Like, like you have to be person, yeah. Like you have to know him now to that extent, how me and Child was that's gonna be difficult because of you know, people got families and stuff now. Yeah, yeah. So who were you looking at? You know, you're brand new into the manager thing. Like, which manager clients, like, were you looking at as kind of like the success model for you? You know what I mean? Shaka and Jeff with Luda. Okay. Yeah. So that was like in your that was that was in your face, and it was like this is working well. Man, they still surprise me every day. Yeah, nice, yeah. What about it? Did you think that you learned the most from? You know what I mean? Damn, that's a good question.

What did I learn the most? I learned everything from them. Like they all do something different. So I let I literally learn everything. Because that's where I was every day. But like what are some key things that you've applied? You know what I mean? Because obviously if you're seeing what's the man of your word. Stay sucker free. As Jeff would say. And then Shaka, he's the boofer and shaker for sure. Uh yeah, so uh I don't know, man. They taught me everything I know. I don't even like I know majority of the music business and stuff from them. Yeah. From being at that office and sitting at that table. I mean, how important is having people like that? What? Mentors, yeah. Whoa. I still talk to them every I just I talk to them all the time. Yeah. Like before I went to Sony, called them to confide in them. Whenever I need help with something, advice on what I should do, family.

Like Jay and my dad and me were just all together. Jay is Shaka and Jeff's brother. Okay. Yeah. Like Jeff just sent my sister some money for some basketball. Like, it's definitely like, nah, for like that's like my family. It's deep. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. No, I mean, Childish said it was definitely like kind of a family run business almost where it's like we're all super close. So it's Aisha, Jeff, Shaka, and Jay. It was, yeah, family. Like, it's deeper than just like But are Jeff song cleared. Yeah, right. Are Jeff Shaka and Jay actually blood? Yeah. They look just alike. Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, because Childish mentioned you guys were also looking at kind of like even Cole as like some. Oh, from that yeah. Okay, like yeah, like kind of a success model of like. Yeah. Because Childish was close with Cole. And that's how I got close to the Dreamville family. Yeah.

Okay. And obviously things seem to be running a lot, you know, smoother. They're like kind of, it's like a well-oiled machine at this point with you guys, right? But take us back to kind of those early days. I mean, he he told me a story about like your first trip out to LA. Where were you at, like financially, mentally, like I was fucked up, mentally broke, emotionally broke. God, I was that's one thing that I admired. spiritually broke. That's one thing that I admired about them. They nobody like they made me work for it. Yeah. Like, man, they was like, you want to be basically I was like, you want to be a manager? All right, this is what being a manager broke. You gotta figure it out. Hope you like ramen. Yeah, but that's what makes you like just like thrive and like meet other people and like confide in other people and like You stay hungry. And like, build your relationships up, yeah. Stay hungry. So yeah, I was broke. Man, I was so broke. I had went to Seattle uh for something, and then take some money out of your mom's pocketbook.

My mom, I had just graduated college. I had just graduated college again as soon as I graduated, we went to LA for a month. My sister Keek had to take me shopping at HM for shirts. I had no clothes to go to LA. Because like you said, different culture, different swag. What I didn't have nothing. Forget swag. I didn't give a damn about that. Nothing. What? I was broke as hell. He just needed clothing. Yo, man, them days draws. Man, them days was fun, but man, I was broke. Yeah. No, does it almost feel like a blur at this point? Nope. So you like vividly remember those days? I think about that all the time. Does that keep you motivated? Keeps me to spend money. I'll be like, I got it. He could go eat what I want. he did pull up in the Audi, so I'm just saying. Yeah, nah, that's so many money, man. I don't know. What's going on, bro? Nah, man. I was like, uh, I was like, nah. Yeah.

Do you say Audi or Audi? Audi. I don't know. I said Audi. I just heard Audi a bunch recently. Yeah, it's I mean. But I used to say Audi, so I don't know. That was weird that I just said Audi. Nah, I'm kind of mad I got the car. Gas is $5. Right. I want to give it back. I know that's right. I know that's right. I would have kept my little Chevy Cruze if I would have known that. Amen. I would have cruised in one more year. Shit. I would have cruised. That's funny. So, you know, one thing that I think is interesting about Childish's career is he's very much a you know equal artist and producer songwriter. You know what I mean? Um, so like what do you think it's like managing that type of client? You know what I mean? Um, as opposed to just a traditional only producer or a traditional only artist, right? Like, is it just equal parts both, or is there like a different approach? Twice as much work almost, or uh it does. I mean, it can get difficult because if you want them to go in and produce, or do you want to go in a song right? So you gotta just know.

Trying to get them to write hits or get placements. Yeah, so it's like before you go in the room, you might want to know where do you play that part at? Or is it good when you just want to throw somebody in the room and just be like, yo, you gotta figure it out, make something. And then you you know what I mean? Yeah. You might add a drum. You might add a chorus. Does he go in phases? Does he tell you like I'm kind of feeling you know the artist thing right now, you know? Let's work towards that. Yeah, I know what phase he is. Yeah, I know. him. What phase is he in right now? What phase is he in right now? Is he in artist mode or producer mode right now? I would say right now, he's probably in songwriting artist mode. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He's in all phases right now though, because he just called me and said that he's recording. Yeah. But then he like he's producing too, so it's like he's in all phases right now. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I was gonna ask a similar question about like, is it okay, today I'm gonna do this, or is it like today I'm gonna do all of the things that I do regardless? You know what I mean?

Or like this month I'm gonna do this. I mean, that's just creatives though. Right. We don't know what the hell yeah, it's the mood. Yeah, whatever mood they in, you you just gotta figure it out from there. That's got to be tough for managers, man. On the wind. God. It's a it's a task. That's how I feel too. Like I don't know what I what I'm feeling that day, you know. But I want to channel whatever it is. Yeah, as soon as that's our job is to figure out to help channel it. Yeah. So for sure. So, you know, one thing he talked about that was that was huge, you know, one of the like big things that you've done is you've helped him kind of build out this like supporting cast of like regulars that he's worked with, right? Like, you know, who are some of the team members that you've brought into his uh into his world? Who was he gonna? He was gonna say Dose. Yeah, so so who's Dose? Dose? Oh, Dose? Yeah, yeah. For those who don't know that aren't familiar, like who, you know, you know, what roles are they playing? Dose Diaz is the best engineer mixer. Dose Diaz is going down in history for sure.

Dose. Shout out Dose. Yeah, Dose is amazing. Uh who else? Bosco. What role did Bosco play? Bosco is the DJ too? Okay. Dose. Dose are Dose is our DJ too, but you know, Dose is a big time engineer mixer now. So he ain't got time for that DJ bullshit. bullshit. He just did Kendrick's album, man. You can't tell him. You can't tell No, he did. Yeah, He did some records on big. Summer? He works with Summer. So that song. Wow. He did her vocals. Oh, okay. Wow, cool. Major. Oh, yeah. I'm sure there's tons of mixers that touched the I mean it was Ali, probably, right? That's it. Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Ali actually. I think he mixed it, but I know Dose mixed Ali. He touched less of that album than I think you would have thought. I think he did, too. Yeah. Oh, wow. But he did summer vocals. So you can't tell Dose none. Dose ain't going. Dose ain't going on those vocals. price went up. It definitely did. Yeah. You want how much for a DJ set? Nope.

And he just did Summer Walker's album, too. Like the Oh, yeah. Like he's... still over it or whatever it is. Yeah. He just did that album. Recording and mixing. Uh, I think he recorded the summer one. Okay. I think they brought in Ali, but to mix, if I'm not mistaken. Why wouldn't you? I mean, it's Ali. That's a great call. So yeah, so Dose. You had Al, Al is our photographer. Yep. And cameraman, amazing. Bosco, DJ. He's he's the turnt DJ in the city right now. That's what you need. Now he's the star. If anybody's a star, it's Bosco. Bosco's the star. Okay. Yeah, we might need to get him on the podcast. I don't know. Sounds like a no Bosco. Yeah, you gotta get Dose, Dose and Bosco. Oh, Dose, Okay. You can say Aaron. Aaron, too. Who's Aaron? Aaron, he does uh film. Okay. So he's he's amazing. Uh C, our photographer. Yeah. How do you know who's gonna work? And then, but you can't forget Tiff too.

I gotta shout Tiff out, Okay, who's Tiff? Tiff's the backbone. Meaning Tiff does everything. So she works right-handed Jeff, but she's the backbone of everything. Just odd jobs, whatever needs to be done. Oh, my God. She gets it done. What? If we're slipping on anything, Tiff leaves. She's the glue. What the glue. Shout out Tiff. Shout out. Everyone needs a Tiff. Everybody. In their camp. Yes. So how did you know that like they were gonna work for him? You know what I mean? Well, Tiff came up with us too at DTP. Okay, so that was easy. Yeah, yeah. But like some of the other players, right? Like, was it just people you were fans of? Al had came. Al I had set up something with Rolling Stone with Mufasa, and Al was there to shoot. And then we were going on a tour with Aaron Ray. He's on the newest Aaron Ray project, too, right? Yeah, nah, this is going back 2016. I know, but this most recent record with Aaron Ray.

Yeah, hard. Aaron Ray is fucking crushing it right now. Man, That's my favorite. He's so good. That's my dog. Yeah. So good. I'm not even into that. I'm not even into that like sound really. For real? But that's amazing. He's amazing. It's so good. It's undeniable, even if you're not a fan of the genre type. You know what I mean? Bro, He's crazy. So good. Uh so we had to want to go on tour with Aaron, and we needed a photographer. And Childish had posed something. And Al was like, yo, I'll come. And this is our first time hanging out with me. And we drove to Ohio. Wow. In the snow. Me and him and Childish. So you get to know someone pretty well. Pretty well. What? We did Cincinnati. What other cities we did? We did three cities. Yeah. But and Al was with us the whole time. I'm like, damn, Al. We about to go everywhere together. I drove to Ohio last year. That's a that's a drive. It's a drive, but think about it in the snow. I'm seeing cars crash. I'm like, oh this is not worth it. But it was. Boy, we was driving. It turned out to be worth it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I did. So that's how Al came. And then Al just stayed with us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Childish has also had a couple of other, you know, notable tours. I mean, I think he went on tour with Big Crit. Yeah, we did. Oh, the legend. Crit was like one of my favorite artists for a long time, man. Back in my college days. Oh, writers, at least. You gotta give them writer. Yeah, like unbelievable. Yeah. K.R.I.T. And then Billie Eilish. Yeah, and then Billie Eilish was our second one. Right when she was like exploding into the stratosphere, right? Billie, yeah. Billie crazy. I mean, I love Billie. Did you get to meet Finneas, by the way? Of course. Yeah. I met Finneas. Billie is the reason why I got all these followers. I got 12, it's not a lot, but 12,000 came. A lot of them came from Billie, because Billie followed me. So all her fans did was follow me. Wow, yeah. Because they're crazy. They're insane. Rabid. I took my nah. I had my page on private, and I was trying to put my email in my bio, and then it just took it off of private, and I just watched my numbers. I'm like, God damn. All from a Billie Eilish follow.

Does she still follow you? No. Because she only follows, I think, like a very, very couple people. So I'm good. it's still love next time I see her. Shout out to you, Billie. We love you, Billie. Please, please follow Deshaun back. I think it's uh Vision Vinson is the uh handle. And Finneas, let's talk. I want to talk to you about some stuff. I got some ideas. He's Talented too. he's crazy. He's the one. Yeah, Billie, just to see how she took it from like we was doing 500 cat venues to like now it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. She 500 cat. Yeah, imagine her doing that now. No shot. We did like 500,000. Yeah, we she I think we did, I don't want to say, do we do SO? No, what I think we did, what's the New York venue? Yeah, SOBs. No, we did Irving Plaza. Okay. That's what, like 500, 600? Yeah. It's not a lot. No. That's a Billie. Billie's huge. No, now she's doing the garden, obviously, back to back to back, right? Back to back. Nice. She's crazy. Yeah, sold out. I mean, it's a good thing. No, that was like the fun tour.

Yeah. That's crazy. I like that tour. That was fun. Yeah, what about it? We had a tour bus. Oh. Crits tour, man. That was like, man, you guys gotta drive. Oh. We got a drive and party. Nah, I didn't like that. Yeah. No, because I'm assuming you had to do a lot of the driving. But fucking manager duty. Man, I used to tell Tiff because Tiff was on on the road with us. It was me and Tiff as like the managers. I said, Tiff, because Tiff don't do nothing. So I'm like, look, Tiff, I drive there. You drive back. That was my goal. That's funny. So I could party right after the show. Did she agree? Sometimes. Shout out to you, Tiff. I remember one night we had so much fun in Dallas. We didn't get back to the what was it? It was Houston. Man, we had so much fun in Houston. And she had to go somewhere, and I had to drive. Oh my God. I had to drive from Houston to Dallas. I was sad.

Just hung over as fuck. Just 10 and 2. I suppose barely surviving on the road. And childish and Groove is sleep. Oh, we can't. And groove too. Groove was a part of our team early on. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, wait. Well, yeah, what was Groove doing? Groove was our first DJ. Okay. Yeah, so Groove used to come up to the studio all the time. He's actually a Tar Heel fan. I see a Tar Heel thing right here, right? That's this guy. I'm a Carolina boy. Yeah, okay. Yeah, now Groove's from Riley. No, Durham. Okay, well. Pretty close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Durham. So me, him and Childish was in the trenches. We was in the trenches, man. So when you got that tour bus and you could just pass out, play PlayStation, you were loving life. Yo, oh shit, we got a tour bus. Do you feel like you made it? Like at that point? Yes, I did. Yeah. You had to, right? Kinda. I mean, even if it was a shitty, even if it's a shitty tour bus. you still had to. Man, our tour bus was lit. We had a shower.

A shower. We had the bed. Yo, the tour bus was the best shit ever. Yes. Damn. Tour bus was fun. See, I look at those and I like love my king bed and shit. So I'm looking at the tour bus and I'm like, I don't think that like tiny little fucking single bed, you know, as a bunk. is, like, my favorite. I'm about it. I'm about it. I don't think so. We was always together. Me, him, and childish was always together anyway. Mm-hmm. So it's about having like the homies in that one place. Yeah. Yeah. I still like my king bed. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't care. I just was like, man, give me that little I know. Give me that little run, man. You gotta, when you hit them bumps, man. You feel all that. It'd Be hot. Yo, turn up the heat. And then I remember when we got to Atlanta. Man, his uh we got to Atlanta in like October. Yo, the heat went down on the tour bus. But we lived so far, uh we chose to stay on the bus, man. Yo.

Because you didn't want to drive drunk. Yo, no, we just no. They had parked the bus in Midtown. And Groove's like, we got the show in Midtown. I'm gonna just post up right here. It's quiet. I ain't got nobody on the bus. I'm like, forget, I'm gonna stay with you. I had must have went out to compound, went back to the bus. He coming on there with two blankets. He was like, yo, it's cold as hell. I'm like, damn. Man, uh, yeah, nah. We figured it out that night, Groove. That's incredible. That's incredible. Yeah, not those. Now those was the best times of my life. Yeah. For sure. Nah, it sounds like it. the broke times was when we just was out here just running around figuring it out. Man, that shit was fun. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I I came into this a little bit, you know, later. I've only been in the you know in the game for a few years now. And I I look at a bunch of these stories because I've talked to a bunch of people who were like fresh out of college, no responsibilities, broke as fuck, but just like same same with you of just like live in it. Like accepting the fact that like you're okay with a freezing cold tour bus and like whatever, who cares?

It's like it's so fun. And it's like when people came to visit us on tour with Crit, yo, they would take us out to fancy restaurants because we was eating bad, like McDonald's and shit. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. And man, when everybody used to come on tour with us, or or like come see us, Jeff and them fly in. What do y'all want to eat? Man, the steakhouse. Steak and lobster, bro. What are we doing? Yo, and they're going crazy. Yeah. You'd be like, who got the tab? Yeah. Jeff. Yeah, hey, yo, they had the tab, man. Those, yeah. No, for sure. That was the fun time. So, you know, obviously, as of as of recently, you have joined the Sony Music Publishing family. Yeah, yeah. Uh, as an AR. Uh-huh. Once again, for those that have no fucking clue what it is that someone who's an AR at a publishing company does, tell them, you know, what it is you were brought on to do, what your day-to-day looks like, you know, kind of bring us into the world of publishing. I was brought on to service our our songwriters.

Okay. So songwriters is producers, writers, and artists as well. Okay. Mm-hmm. Help them service them, get placements, uh, and just see what they need to get in more sessions and get their career going. Putting them in rooms. Yeah, putting them in rooms and just being just a dot connector mostly. Basically the dot connector, but really helping them in shape and helping Sony make money and helping with the market share and stuff like that. I'm sure they love that. Of course they do. So are you placements? This is me also game now. Yeah, this is me also trying to, but I'm sure you were doing a bunch of that when childish was in his producer bag, right? Yeah, but with childish, we were different because we were just moving around, so it was more direct. Yeah. So like so, how is it now for you? Now I get to use all those relationships I have. Sure. Like someone like the people that I was working with when I was first with Childish, they're at like execs at companies now. Mm-hmm. They're like the head of AR and stuff like that.

Yeah. So and that speaks to kind of what you talked about as far as like that building with yeah, it all is coming together now. Yeah. Cause now I'd be like, damn, I do know that person. Mm-hmm. We've been actually cool forever. Yeah. Let me just call her. Like they'll call me. It's like like personable. That's when it goes back to being like personable. Yeah. So for sure. So how big is the roster that you're responsible for? It's not too big. Like how many clients? Just curious. Like it's a few. No, because like going from caring about getting one person placed to like how many people. Yeah, I'm just trying to understand like the span of man. The rosters on publishing labels are huge. Depending on people have big rosters. Okay. I haven't seen 50. Some people I heard have only like 15 or 20. It just depends on what company you're at. But Sony, we're number one. Yeah, so it's so it's a lot. Yeah, yeah.

And so, you know, I don't know, take this question as as you wish, but like I'm assuming you have to almost prioritize kind of how you spend your time, right? I mean, you're one guy. Yeah. So you do have to like you know, look at the roster and be like, hey, you know, yeah, here's where I see the opportunities for but you gotta think some people are self-sufficient. Sure. They don't really need a publisher, like they have better relationships than me. And that goes back to kind of what we talked about, where the manager can't be doing everything where the Yeah, the face is the artist. That's the CEO. So we only go as big as the uh as the artist, but and the producers too. But a lot of the producers, some of them have their own relationships, so they don't really need too much caring. No, like they could call Drake. I can't call Drake. Yeah, Drake ain't reaching out to no AR, he's gonna call the producer direct, right? And you gonna follow him and you gonna talk to him. So, in that scenario, though, what is your role?

You know what I mean? Are you working on producer agreements or anything? No, producer agreement that goes through uh, but the master side with the label, okay. That would just be making sure the song is is registered to Sony so that they could get paid on the publishing end. So a little more administrative in that sense, a lot of admin, a lot of admin. Oh man. Versus someone that needs a lot of more support. Yeah, that's when you you're getting in there, and getting your hands dirty. And just seeing what artists are working and seeing who fits that best. Yep. Makes sense. So a lot of relationships then with like the label ARs, I'm assuming, right? Uh huh. Yeah. Okay. Label ARs, managers. So but you know, Atlanta's a big family though. I know. We're kind of close here. It's smaller than you think. Yeah. And it is. And it's like. Yeah, it's man, it's it's it's amazing. It's it's it's one of the best communities that I've been a part of. Yeah.

And they showed me a lot of love when I got my Sony job. So I ran into a lot of people just in the Atlanta circle. Yeah when I got it, they like they really embraced me more than I expected because I'm not from here, but I've been here 11 years now. So you're Atlanta now. Yeah, sure. No, it's crazy. I mean, even having just done the podcast and like been in the scene for a few years, I'm hopefully by the time this airs, hopefully, my current employer, if I work for them, still doesn't hear this because I'm really banking on I'm like ready to take the full leap of faith into music. So I've been working a day job for a while. Okay. But I picked up the phone and I was like, damn, I've met a lot of people, and everyone's so you got 60 episodes. Yeah, and everyone's and everyone's so willing to like. I mean, shout out 808 Blake. Like he's you know, making plays with me potentially with since the 80s, and like, you know, just everyone's kind of like, yeah. I love Barron's.

Yeah. So, you know, everyone's kind of like this. Well, we're gonna use you as a reference now for Ben's new job. Yeah, it is potentially Zeke and Barry, man. That's fair. No, but also like I've been talking with Key Henderson, she's doing her own thing, yeah. Um, you know, with Third and Hayden or whatever. And so, like, just me picking up the phone and being like, Look, I'm ready to fucking take this, you know, seriously and like make this my full-time job. It was amazing to me, even who's only been doing this for a few years here, as to like everyone, oh, this person knows this person, and this person knows this person, and it's like this very tight-knit, you know, community. Super tight-knit. Love, man. It took me what? I've been doing music. It took me a while to get corporate. Yeah. And I didn't even want to at first. Yeah, per personally, personally speaking, I did want to ask this. You know, you've been managing a client who, you know, has had a lot of success, right? You know, childish has been doing his thing over the years. So, like, what are you personally hoping to gain from this experience? To learn more.

Okay. To learn a lot, and just being able to service others and build and meet new people. That's my favorite thing to do, is to meet new people. Yeah. Like, I love meeting new people. That's my favorite. So I just want to learn more about the business, service others and learn. I love that, man. Because I say learn twice, but no, but it's fine. it's worth it. Yeah. it's worth it because I mean, you know, we talked about you know, Rico Brooks, who you may or may not own money, owe money. I definitely owe him. Yeah. I definitely owe him. On record now. But he came on and he's been doing this a lot longer, even than you. He's the goat. I'm nowhere near them, guys. He's the goat. But but take it this way, It ain't fine. but he said the exact same thing that you. What? That he's a learner. Yeah, he wants to learn. Yeah, this dude's reading every article that gets published by Billboard or Forbes or you know, whoever, right? Like, he's consuming so much knowledge, and I think that that's gonna serve you well, man. Like, as you continue to even, you know, progress, is that like don't stop. You know what I mean?

Like, and shout out to the people that convinced me to take, convinced me to apply. Who I didn't who was that? Tazita. She was like, I heard there's an Atlanta job. You should apply. I'm like, uh I don't know. Shout out to Tazita. Corporate scared me at first. I'm like, I've never been corporate. I gotta change the way I dress. I gotta put on a suit every day. Are you wearing a suit every day? No. Okay, I was like, what the fuck? We're not in like banking. I just didn't know because I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. You thought they were suits. It wasn't even on his radar. Yeah, I'm like At the time. publishing. I'm like, I know like the basics, but I'm not like, but she was like, no, you know everybody, you could do it. Yeah. I'm like, all right, T. And then she was like, you know, this person over there. I knew who hired me assistant, Dom. And Dom is a DTP. Sorry, it's just DTP. We we all a tree. Real family. Yeah, Dom had connected me to the hiring person, Ian, and that's how the rest is history.

Good deal. That was the best thing I did. Like, no, I'm I'm excited to see where you, you know, go from here because I think that to your point, I mean, like, getting that really hands-on publishing experience as someone who worked with a producer, you definitely were having to know a little bit, but like, you know, you even admitted you you were not a publishing expert. Yeah, nah. that world. is like. I don't think Nobody is unless you work in publishing. Who the fuck knows what's going on? But you know, what I always say a job, take the job. They're gonna teach you when you get there. Just be willing to learn. For real. Yeah, that's major. Cause it just take it. No, it's facts. They'll teach you. That's facts. But you just gotta have the certain like the basics down, of course. But other than that, but they'll teach you everything else that you need to know. Nah, definitely. And I mean, you sound like someone who's like, you know, a sponge and willing to learn, so that's great. Man, I love to learn. I love the one-on-one calls with all my managers and people. I love it because that's when I learned the most. That's huge. Yeah. Well, yo, we appreciate you coming on, man. It's been an amazing episode full of, I mean, hilarious stories, real shit. I mean, I love the just looking back at those early days and like embracing how you felt during those times, you know what I mean?

And the fact that you like still remember those vividly is awesome. Like, I think that shit's going to stick in your brain forever. Yep. Yep. anytime. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming. Until next week, what are we doing? Getting out of here. Getting the fuck out of here. Peace. All right. Hop up in a fine skirt. Yeah.