S.U.R.F on Why Rage Music, How Sex Changed Him, Forgiving Not Forgetting, and more -

I had the luxury of not having to like fend for myself. But in that same light, I think it taught me like, you know what? Part of this is also getting up and going to get it. If you want this bad enough, yeah, people are gonna help you, but you gotta get off your ass. The One More Time Music Podcast. Genuine conversations with genuine people about music. Hosted by Henry with a three and playback Ben. We're from Pimo Koops to Pants off. They find that one more time. One more time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another episode of the One More Time Podcast. I'm your host, Playback Ben, here with my co-host, Henry with a three, aka the trap Jack Black. Trap Jack Black, who do we got in the hot seat today, my guy? Welcoming in on episode 58 of the One More Time podcast. You know him for his love of orange soda. And from Good Burger, it's Kel Mitchell. This is so cool.

This feels so professional. Yeah, this feels like a Spotify. Like, oh my god, I got headphones in right now. It's gonna be on Spotify. This is Spotify exclusive deal coming soon. What do you guys support? Put that in the air. I just heard what you say. I was geeked. So I just heard y'all call me Kel Mitchell. He blacked out. during the road. I was like, oh shit. This is like. In all seriousness, we have the rage angel himself. We got surf in the building. Surf game. Big surf shit. Can I okay? I can curse cool. What the fuck? going on? Watch your fucking language. Go in. Only Henry and I are allowed to curse. Yeah, yeah. I guess have to keep it PG. Hi guys. Nah, we appreciate you coming on, man. Nah, for sure. as of now, because this episode will already be, you know, it'll be out a little later. Yeah. Bet is out right now. So go shooting that shit. We'll we will get into that in a little while. But for sure. So the original meaning of S U R F. For sure.

What was the original meaning? Because I know it changed. Uh, someone you regret forgetting. That's what it was. Someone you regret forgetting. Someone you regret forgetting. And then it changed to someone you remember forever. And we were talking about this. It just sounded like a glass half empty turns glass half full. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Try to make it more positive sounding. I feel like the one before, it still had like a I don't know, it was just it didn't feel right to be to be transparent. It just didn't feel right. Um from the jump? Nah. You were like questioning it? Nah. When I first did it, I was like, this is it. You know what I'm saying? I was this is it. Yeah. This is they get it. Yeah. But then I I started saying it out loud. And you know how like when you like start to explain stuff to people out loud, you realize like this sound kind of stupid. Bruh. All the time. You start saying it out loud, it's like, your head it's like, yeah, but out loud, When you start introducing yourself to people and you have to like give them the whole spiel. So I'm someone you regret forgetting. Yeah.

You feel what I'm saying? Yeah. Versus I'm someone you remember forever. Yeah. Damn, does sound weird. You feel what I'm saying? That was cool. Yeah. So I got goosebumps a little bit. I like this guy. Wow. No, for real. I mean, that like, but what did someone like did you just keep introducing yourself and then being like, well, surf actually stands for this? And then like you know what I mean? Like, yeah. So what would happen was people were like, they would know my name already or whatever, and and then I would be like, Yeah, surf is like an acronym. Mm-hmm. Because at first it was just Sammy Surf. There was no like dots in between the surf. It was just Sammy surf. But I knew what surf meant, and the people around me knew what it meant. But like getting to translate to other people, it was like, well, we don't know that because it just looks regular. Right. Right. You know what I mean? So I want to say early last year, I just made a decision to go ahead and drop off the Sammy part. Um and then just go with the dots. For one, there's a few surfs that make music as well. So there was already that. Like, okay, well, it can't be just surf because you have the different things. Because you're gonna come up like hundreds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally. No, I mean literally. People don't think these things through. No, it's tough. Even when you like, if you're an artist and you go to like when you're doing the DSP shit and whatever, it tells you like, make sure that you spell your name correctly and that you don't have the same name as 10 other people. So I actually just got an email. It literally just happened to Henry. Like two days ago, like, congratulations on your upcoming release. Someone else named H3NRY that's dropping the song. And I think they're I don't I don't know if they're dropping it on my profile. They're going to. Those are your streams now. Do I get paid for that? Yes. Uh maybe. So I hit up Henry and I said, Good good luck with the rollout, bro. Hope everybody goes. I don't even know what it sounds like. What is he talking about? I have no idea. But no, so basically you were like, all right. Yeah. S-U-R-F. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and then it just kind of felt better to have that. like, different spin on it. It was more of like Trying to be, it was me maturing, really. Okay. To be honest. That's where the name change came from. Yeah. Um, I started making music when I was like 15, 16 years. Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, unlike some, I mean, you had a high school experience, I feel like that actually kind of impacted your trajectory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some people kind of like high school has nothing to do with their story. I feel like you have a- high school is the reason I make music, to be completely honest with you. Yeah. Um, so I dated a girl. This is my first girlfriend ever. Um, she was like the polar opposite of me, like complete opposite. She was outgoing, wanted to do all different types of shit. She was like a cheerleader, all type of shit. And I was like, I'm gonna go read. I don't want to be bothered. Um, you know what I'm saying? Not to say I didn't have friends, nothing like that, but I was very much to myself. Yeah. Um, and then I got with her and TMI, took my virginity. Okay. And then we're here for all the eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. All the information we need. they made me take a shot. Yeah. He's gonna spill all the beans. So he's off that brown liquor. Literally. So she she she uh took my virginity, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, you know what? I think I want to go outside and see what's outside. So fucking literally was like just completely changed you as a person.

Yes. Sex. Amazing. Amazing. Safe sex. Yeah, of course. Safe sex. Of course, with a condom, yeah. With the condom. Of course. Can't knock it out in high school. Plastic. Yeah, whatever you need. So you start going outside. Yeah, and then so I want to say, so the high school I went to was called uh it's called Drew Charter. Yeah. Well, it's called Senior Academy now. But when I was going there, it was K through eight. Okay. So once we once we left eighth grade, they actually decided, you know what, we're gonna build a high school for you guys. And my mom was like, that's where you're going. I didn't want to go, but that's where you're going. So I graduated with 80 people. Tiny. Yes, very tiny. Um, and so I want to say our ninth grade year, we were at another building while they were building the actual high school. And we had an audio engineering class um with somebody named uh Dustin Cicero. Shout out Mr. Cicero Facts, Mr. Cicero. yeah. So he was actually very plugged in with like Grand Hustle and all that stuff like that. He does a lot of mixing for like Mulatto. Oh, wow. Different type of yeah.

So I was like, when I I got thrown in there because I was like, I want to do this. And he was like, all right. And then I went, I went to uh B.O.B. studio. I forgot where it is or what it's called, but that was like the first thing I recorded in. That's the first time I had seen Mulatto when she was like 16, 17, whatever. Wow, Yeah, and but I I mean at the time my shit was ass. I ain't gonna cap. it was fucking garbage. But to me, I was like, nigga, this is going. crazy. This is about to happen. This is it. I'm yeah. So um that's kind of how I got started. Um, and then from there, just now we're here. Well, well, yeah, but you were also like playing in the band and shit, right? Man, oh, he told y'all everything. Because like Shut up. Okay. We did a research. Because I'm not gonna lie, when I heard what instrument you played, I was like, oh, it makes sense. Okay, so I play, I play tuba. He looks like a tuba player. Boom! Yeah, I don't know why. I played tuba, clarinet, trumpet. He's multi-instrument. I was in jazz band, I was in orchestra a little bit, I took chorus.

So all the all the music related shit, I did it. No trombone. I tried the trombone. God dang it. Are they gonna be able to hear that? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible. I did not play the trombone. Okay. I did um marching band too. Uh did like uh what is it called? Uh like competition band where you like go to the book. I did all that shit. Yeah, Yeah, I was a sax player. Oh, okay. Cool. So I went to competition. I did all that. what was the high school? Like a one or a five? I forgot. Exactly. Yeah, one of those. We got the high one. Then then, yeah, type shit. So yeah. Yeah, and and I mean, homeroom was also like an epic like musical experience, I feel like that's where I made a gang. Yeah, we used to be in that man, Miss Williams homeroom. He's been that bitch going stupid. There's some beat beat man. literally, literally on the table, beating. Oh, right now, I thought he was about to give me a beat. I was like, oh shit. No, this isn't that kind of podcast. It is now.

Oh, woke up this morning, got a Hold on now. Yeah, yeah, hold on. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I woke up this morning with a grandma blank, got a badass bitch. I be running on her, but man, these niggas trying to play better than I run up, got the gun on me now, nigga, better buckle up. Yeah, I'm in the fucking car and I'm going fucking hard. Got the 4G out of rims. Yeah, this shit gonna take me far. And I'm really spitting bars. Yeah, I spit it off the dome. All in your fucking home, nigga, keep my fucking chrome, nigga. What? Y'all don't get no more. Oh my god. Y'all should pay for that shit right there. 5,000. That's the first time we've actually no, we've done one other. We've pro hey. We've broken down into a freestyle one other time in the whole. Oh, really? Tenure of the second one One more time. Really? Okay. But yeah, so there was a whole lot of that going on. Yeah, literally, yeah, in home room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Facts. That's hard. So, so you know, speaking of Mr. Cicero, like he was someone who kind of like took you under his wing, I feel like. Someone like a you know, mentor character. How important was that to have someone like believe in you that early on? Um, it just showed me that this is possible.

You feel what I'm saying? It's a lot of people don't understand, like, oh, I want to be the biggest thing ever. But it like it starts at home. You feel what I'm saying? It starts with who's around you. If you can't get the people around you to support you, it's gonna be very hard to get other people to support you. Because it's not a one-man show. None of this shit is. I can't do any of this by myself. So having somebody like him to like pull me under and be like, hey, I might not have everything, but this is what I have. Here, here's a studio. Here's connections, here's mixing for free, here's beats for free, here's whatever, whatever, whatever. That's gonna take you a way farther than trying to like, I don't know, like be something you're not just trying to YouTube how to mix my own song. Literally, like, like he would like, yeah. I'm saying, so I I had the luxury of not having to like, I guess, fend for myself, if that makes sense. But in a in in that same light, I think it taught me like, you know what, part of this is also getting up and going to get it. So if you want this bad enough, yeah, people are gonna help you, but you gotta get off your ass.

Yeah. This shit is not easy. And I think people are more inclined to help someone that is actively trying to do their own thing, right? I'll say, like, now I have a very solid team around me. But it came from people seeing me just do this shit without asking nobody for nothing. Because I'm the type of person I don't ask for shit. I don't. Because I I don't want for one, I've had experiences where people try to hold stuff over your head. People try to yeah, people try to count count favors. Oh, I did this for you, I did that for you. Right. So it's like I would rather bust my ass and figure out every way possible to do it on my own than ask somebody else just because that's the type of person I am. And with that kind of work ethic, people are gonna see that. They don't have a choice but to, even if it's on a small scale, big scale, they don't have a choice but to see it. So once people start seeing you applying yourself and really pushing somebody, if it's if it's good enough to to where somebody's like, you know what? All right, we we see you.

So let's help. That's how this shit works. That's what a lot of people don't understand. Like, even down to if you're talking about trying to get signed, the label is gonna look at you like, okay, what are you what are you doing without us right now? Yes. For us to even say, Oh, we want to help you. Yes. What the fuck are you doing without us? It's different now. Yeah, it's very different. it used to be, you know, every label had an artist development program. And you just needed talent. If you had talent, yeah, they'll take you under their wing. That's not a thing. You gotta have your own shit going on for them to care now. These niggas don't give a fuck if you Michael, the next Michael Jackson, nigga. If you don't have 10,000 Spotify, whatever the fuck, it doesn't fucking matter. Facts. So you gotta like, you gotta get off your ass and make this shit happen. You have to, you almost you gotta turn yourself into something. You gotta turn yourself the fuck up before somebody else can plug you in. You gotta plug yourself in for real. Yes. And I think like, you know, you mentioned like the people around you gotta support you first or else who else is. Yeah. I would agree, yet, let me spin it a different way. Yeah, that doesn't have to mean that they're like in your city in my mind.

No, hell no. It means that you do have to have someone out there, whether they're on the internet across the fucking world, facts that like buys into what the fuck you are even doing. Facts. Facts. Because you're right. Like, there's gotta be if you can't get a few people Man, you can't get Five niggas to come out to the show, bro. Exactly. Pack it up. Exactly. Pack it up. No, for real. Pack it up. They're trying to do something else. Yeah. You feel what I'm saying? So No, and and we've actually had, you know, I mean, I I think it was 808 Blake, who, you know, manages Metro Mars, and he was like, it's laughable that like these kids that are out there can't bring 40 people out to a fucking show type shit. And what, what blows my mind about that is right, you you're an artist, and okay, I go to a show, it's just me and my homeboy. You're upset because nobody in the crowd or or your set looks weak because you did not bring anybody to a free show. Yes.

Everyone else is there to see somebody believed in you at the free show. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? No, the struggle, the struggle is real. Like, you know what I'm saying? But to and to that extent, though, don't feel like just because it's just you and your homeboys, you can't do it. If it's no, I I realize that, like, all right, if I go to this show and it's just me and my homeboy, I gotta make these niggas who ain't never seen me before believe in what the fuck I'm doing so that they come to the next one. Right. Yes. You gotta make it imperative that if you can't, if you're not at a space where you can bring people out, you have to captivate people. You have to give a people a reason to like be different. Every nigga's gonna go on stage and stand and walk around and rap their lyrics. Like that's cool. Make it an experience for people. Yeah. That 10, 15 minute set that you got, that need to be your rolling loud. Yeah. That gotta be your Madison Square Garden. Like, you gotta do that. That's true. Yeah. That's a jam. Yeah. Yeah. So other than the musical like dynamic, I feel like, you know, you kind of mentioned it was a small school. Like the social dynamic sounded very strange.

It sounded like some West Side story. Imagine like waking, waking up every day and you see the same 80 people for four years. Yeah. So I dated her, me and her broke up. Now she's with him. Yeah. He's friends with my friends. Sounds like a reality show or something. Literally. Like it's like it's like a big ass cluster fuck of just crossovers. Just everybody's just, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But but so it, I mean, it was kind of like mad clicky, though, because isn't that where shout out it's just us gang I J U. Gang. Isn't that where that Indeed. Yeah. started? So tell us kind of like where that came from. Shit. We was at the lunch table one day. Um, I wanna say I'm gonna credit the wrong person and they're gonna chew my head off in the group chat. So I'm not gonna say who said it first. But somebody was like, man, it's just us. Now we're here. Now we're here. Number one video on YouTube, uh, Pushin P Now we're here.

Thug, Gunna, freedom. Now we're here, future. Now we're here, Drake. Now we're here, Rolling Loud. Now we're here. I can keep going. Yeah. Wow. But but it sounded like some like Jets versus uh like like what's the West Side Story shit where it's like the Jets versus the whatever, or like there's like rival, like fake gangs or whatever. Oh yeah. Because wasn't there like some some dweeby, like other group of people that you guys were like? Yeah, like wasn't there like it was so innocent, so I don't even want to call it gang shit, but it was man, bro. Niggas was running for someone who is not affiliated with us anymore at the time was running for class president. Okay, wow, it was uh class politics. Literally, and there was a group of other people. Uh what the fuck was they called it? I know it if you need it. Yeah, what was it? The winning team. The winning the winning team. I was like, they sound fucking lame. So it wasn't no real beef, but it was more so like niggas just felt like they was smarter than us type shit.

Yeah, I mean, their name was the winning team. But we mo we mo rowdy. So you could be smart all day, but you're not gonna out yell us. So we in we at the fucking uh we're at that. They had a little like uh like a campaign speech day or whatever where everybody got up and got to do a speech. Okay. So our homie went up there, we up there going nuts, like, hell yeah. We in this this is like in school, like principal every hell yeah, fuck all type of shit. So the other nigga go up there. Boo. You booed him. Man, what? No class. Man, what? What? School counselor come up to the stage. I know what you guys are doing, and it's not funny. Sounds hilarious. Almost got suspended, all of that. But yeah. So it's just us gang. It was formed like through kind of that, you know, small school, yeah, but yet there was clearly like enough creative minds that like wanted to pursue different ventures. I mean, tell us about like what IJU is for people that have no fucking clue what it is.

Like, tell us kind of you know all about it. It's just us as a collective of different creatives. Um we have videography, photography, visual art, music, fashion, um, whatever the fuck you you think in the creative field, somebody in us can do that shit. Yeah. Um, and it I would say when we first came together, it wasn't really on like, oh, we're trying to take over the world. This is like, this is just something, this is a place, this is a safe space for us. We're just here with each other. We're making sure each other's straight. Um, if somebody needs something, then you know that's how we work. The people that are in IJU, like one of them, I've known him since I was two. You feel what I'm saying? Damn. I've known some of them since I was in elementary school. Um real ties. This is like these are like my these are family for me. Yeah. Because for me personally, not to get deep, but like, I don't really, me and my family don't have like no beef, but like I was always the youngest in most situations. So when we go out to family different stuff, everybody's 60, 50, I'm just there. So for me, my homies are my family.

Yeah, I still got my family. Don't get it fucked up. I love my family. But when it comes to immediate family, though, that's what I'm calling. That's that's gang. So um, dang, I just lost my truck that my train of thought. Um, no, so like what IJU is like, you know, clearly a lot of these people you've known for a long time. Yeah, strong ties. So family, um, like I said, we do all those different things in those different sections. Um, I think it was just more so recently that we started to realize like, you know what, this can be bigger than just like we friends. This can be something that's global, like for real, for real. We had a member, um, Caleb, Caleb Jamel, who shoots a lot of everything. Yeah. So he I mean, dude, I was checking him out. And I was like, yeah. Because I'm not gonna lie, I hear about these collectives. Yeah. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna even, you know, front. I was like, oh, what's this about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I literally was like, what's this about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I, of course, like, of course, I rock with you. Then I start like going down the field And I'm like oh shit, like they do that, they did this, they did that. And I was like, Yeah, I was really impressed, man.

I'm not gonna lie. Like, I was telling Henry, I was like, I was real skeptical when I was like, you know, we hear everyone's got a collective. Yeah, yeah, everybody got a little Sometimes it's just a friend group and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's usually only like one person doing something. Nah, all of us do something. Exactly. Yeah, I was like, it's more so we have gotten to the point where we understand that everybody can't go at the same time. And I think that's very important to understand when you're moving as a unit like that. It's not about being selfish and oh, I want to go first or I want to be on first. If one of us gets in the door, then we all are in the door. So it doesn't fucking matter who gets in the door, just go through the door. Yeah, if that means that we all gotta come together and put everything towards one person or one thing at a time, then that's cool, just as long as somebody gets in. Because once you're in, you can let the rest of us in. You can keep the door open. Um, so but has everyone had that like patient mindset, or have people broken Fuck no, not of course, not at first. Hell no, but you gotta I mean that's like a mature way to look at it because most people are selfish pricks, yeah.

Let's be honest. Nah, facts. Fuck that. It's me. But you you gotta realize like you can be like that and you're not gonna go anywhere because nobody wanna deal with that shit. Nobody ain't nobody should deal with that. That's why it's not called it's just me, Ben. Yeah, it's just us. No, I I I love it. I love it, but I'm just like thinking of the average fucking Joe. Nah, I'll tell you, like, you know, Jeez it takes a lot of like growing and communication as people to really get to that point of like we understand that everybody can't go at once. So how do you guys operate? Like, is there just week? There's a group of chat, obviously, but is there like is there meetings really? Is it like at all formalized or more informal? like loose? Like, you know, how does it work? Kind of how we do things is everybody moves on an individual basis, but we always remember to put on for the collective, if that makes sense. Yeah. I we never wanted to be a thing where it's like somebody signed under something or whatever the case may be. Um, it's just more like we all freelance and we all do our thing, but we all when it's time, we're all showing support to each other.

When it's time, we're all under the same hoodie. We're all under the same shirt. We're all under the same color or whatever the case may be. Um when it's time to do a show, that's why my shows be so fucking deep, because we're all going. That's why Saint shows look like how they look, because we're all going. Yeah. That's why the videos look how they look because we're it's all hands in. You feel what I'm saying? So we always make sure that you know what I'm saying, because you want yourself, you want to shine. Everybody wants to shine. And you should, you should. You should, you know, you should be able to do that. So the umbrella, I mean the umbrella, the collective is more so just a a place for us to showcase everything. And this is who we are, and this is each individual, and this is what we all do. You feel what I'm saying? Yeah. Um, like I said, we're still we're still working out kinks and you know, getting to uh a really like rolling place of where we just keep moving. But for where we are now, I think we're doing a great job. Yeah, no, I mean, and I think that if everyone can first of all, how many members are there? Just curious, would you say?

Check the group chat. Yeah, give you an accurate number. Yeah. I'm gonna Say 13. The latest enrollment numbers are. No, it's not. That was right. Dead on? Yeah. 13. Exactly. Okay, wow. Um, three of us make music. Scratch that. Five of us make music, two of us produce. Okay. And so the artists are what? Me, you, Saint. And Homicide Fat. Um, then we have two producers. Uh Isaiah, DJ Zay the private, and then we have Rick Ricky, who also produces. Um, so then you got some photographers and videographers and shit. Yeah, got the photographers, that's Mike, that's Asa, Surf League Slot and my boy Asa on Instagram. And then we got videographers, that's Caleb John, and our newest, he's a new addition but uh CJ. Um, he also does video. He's I think he's with Flamili right now, if I'm not mistaken, he's on road with Flamili So if I wanted to join, it's just us collective. Is there like an application process?

So are you taking podcast hosts and managing? Podcast. No. I won't put you on I'll tell you because we because we get that, we get those questions a lot. Yeah, I figured. I'll tell you that we all have I'll say we're bonded because we're all friends, but we're also bonded because we've all been through something. Yeah, if that makes sense. Okay. Uh I don't want to say it like that, but like we're bonded by like pain, if that makes sense. We've all kind of like been through something similar, if that makes sense. Um, so for us, I'll I'll be straight up, I don't like niggas. I don't trust niggas. Uh not even just niggas, just people in general. I don't, I'm not a because of I've been through some shit, you know, been through shit. So I have I'm kinda kind of closed off. Unless I like feel that you like genuine for real, for real, then I can fuck with you. But for us, it's more so just moving off of being genuine. Like if this is what you want to do and this and you trying to fuck with us, why? What do you want out of it?

Are you gonna do stuff that are you gonna do stuff because we're telling you to? Are you gonna do stuff off the strength of you just wanting to do it and help us out? That's how I that's how I build my teams, right? If somebody come to me and they like, yeah, I want to help you, that's cool. So do it. Show me that. Yeah. Tell me like you don't have to you don't have to tell me that. If you wanna if if I think about that when I think about the label shit too, like a lot of A&Rs, they'll like be watching, woo woo, but they don't ever do nothing. They just watch it and telling you that the shit fire. Nigga, help. Right. Right. What the fuck? So for me, it's like you can say that, but words don't mean shit. There has to be some action behind what the fuck you saying. Yeah. Yes. Because that words, words are just shit coming out your mouth. You can mean that shit, you can not mean that shit. I'll never know. But the action is what's gonna hold more value. So there is there an IJU application? Fuck no.

But is there room for growth? Always. Yeah. Does that mean we'll never add anybody? Fuck no. Are we gonna add more people in the future? Hell yeah. But give us a reason to. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Nah, for sure. And I mean, if you're open to sharing, I mean, do you wanna talk about kind of like what what has like formed this distrust and like kind of like this some of that pain? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, we're here. So we can get into that. Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, because there's there's people out there that might be going through similar shit, you know what I mean? Without I guess saying names and all that shit, but like I had I had management at a time, like like pre-pandemic, mid-pandemic, um management from about 20 16, 17 to whenever that like 2021, 2020, whatever. Um I'll say the situation or the the relationship, it was good, but it was very controlling, if you will. Um, it was very manipulative, if you will, and I didn't realize this till after I got out of it.

Yeah. Um, it was very um, it just it it wasn't conducive to trying to be the artist that I was trying to be, if that makes sense. Um it was a lot of like forced, oh, we'll do this because I think this makes sense for you versus do you want to do this or does this make sense? You know what I'm saying? It was more so like, oh, we're gonna do this because it makes sense. Well, that don't make sense for me. We I did a lot of different shows. I'm I'm very I'll say this, I'm very grateful for what I've been through because it got me here. Um I'm very grateful for the experiences for the shows that all of that shit. But um something happened where I actually find I found out that he was like um is is pedophile the word, I don't know. Oh, yeah. Wow. Deep, right? Yeah. So find that out, right? Um, or allegedly, right? Because after it happened, or after he found out that I found out, because this the situation was I was on I was with something called Bosco's Basement. Um a few people watching this will know what it is because that's what I was running under and stuff like that.

Yeah. Um, so I was it when it first started, it was just me and him. It was me and my manager. Um then we added like Saint and you know, just expanded, whatever, whatever. But um, so once I found out, and I guess once he figured out that I found out, never heard from him again. Tried to reach out, nothing. And at first, when it happened, I was angry. Like I was like, nigga, like, what, bruh? Yeah, nigga don't put all his time and effort and blah blah blah into this shit, and then this shit happened, and you don't even have the decency to try to explain yourself. You don't have the decency to try to tell us what the fuck. Sounds like a guilty mindset. You know what I'm saying? When people disappear like that and go quiet, it's one of two things. Either you did it or you're upset because nobody believes that you didn't do it. Yeah. And nine times out of ten, you did it. If you can't, if you're not defending yourself at all, and somebody saying some crazy shit like that about you, you did that shit. At least to the ones that are closest. At least to us.

Yeah. I get not trying to. If you don't want to be on social media, that's cool. I get it. But you like someone who you're locked in with. Yeah, you tell family, you you, I don't care what the situation is, you tell family that type of shit. Yeah to. Because even if I'm the type of person I grew up in a Christian household. So I believe in forgiveness. I don't think that you should forget things, but I think you should forgive because you have to make peace with certain shit. So for me, it's like I'm not gonna forget that you did whatever the fuck you did, and I'm gonna move accordingly. But at least if we talk about it, there can be some some sort of closure and some sort of like understanding of like, okay, you fucked up. You fucked up. It's a very grand fuck up that you did, but it's fucked up. And and and it is what it is. I can forgive you for it. Do I still want to rock with you? Eh. But can I forgive you for it? And can we move forward in our separate lives? For sure. But my thing is like, I ain't get the opportunity. You feel what I'm saying? So it was a lot of me reaching out, trying to call, boom, boom, boom. Like, are you gonna pick up the phone trying to talk to you?

Like, DM me everything. Get little no responses or get like, oh, we'll talk when the time is right. Like, what so Damn that kind of happened? Um, and then within our friend group, we've had different people come in and out and you know, different reasonings and stuff like that. So just you know, different shit like that. Yeah, but I I think I've gotten to a point where I can talk, I can you know, I can openly talk about it just because I've made peace with the situation. Yeah, I've moved forward with it. So it's just that's tough. No, I mean it's good though. It got deep in here. No, I mean people need to know, like just people have dealt with with different stuff. Yeah, yeah. And it's all about how you look at it, yeah, how you learn from it. Life is 10% of what happens to you, and the other 90% is how you react. React to it. Uh yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's it. That's big. Boom. That's big. So shifting gears. Yep. What do you remember the very first song that you performed? And where it was.

I did bar exam. Don't know. You don't know Bar Exam? of course we know it. Oh, yeah. Way Way not as legit as that was your first. No, that was my first show. Was it? It's like show, talent show. Performance. I'm talking about performing a song. On life, this was my first show. I did Apache Cafe. Bar Exam? Really? I swear to God. Because I I heard that there was a friend's birthday party. Ah! You rocked I forgot about that. Yeah. I did um oh Gabrielle, I think. I think it was her song. Turn up turn up. Turn up turn up. There it is. Yeah. Don't play with me, bro. Come on, bro. He does his research. I was like, no, Apache Cafe is like the cool That's that's like the cool answer. Yeah. I did turn up, turn up, niggas was staged at Gabrielle's birthday. Yep, in that little ass room, niggas was stage diving. So it was actually lit. Yeah. I was gonna ask, like, how was that compared to like your live show now? That's why I figured out how to perform. Exactly What?

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Once if you when you get on a stage and you see people move like that, yeah, because of what you're saying. Yeah. What? It's gotta be addicting. What? Yeah. That shit is like drugs, bro. Bro, we just talked about this. What? This this DJ B-Lax, she was DJing on the lotto tour for one of the openers. Yeah. And she was able to like control the crowd. Like have them put their phones up or do this, do that. That is a crazy ass feeling. And she's like yeah It's a drug for real. I feel like a lot of artists don't say that. But like the performing aspect of this shit, it's the best part. Like making the music and shit, don't get it fucked up. That shit is fun as hell because you're like, oh shit, I just make this fire ass song. But it don't get fire until you see niggas like jumping on each other because of it. Because in the studio, it's just you and your homeboy. It's just you and the homeboys. It's like, yeah, we know this hard. We've been in here already. Like, we've been here for eight hours. We get it. But to go outside, you feel what I'm saying? Yeah.

And for 15 minutes, niggas is losing their mind. Yeah. What? Yeah. What? So was that under the name Rambo or Surf at that point? Was that Rambo? Was that in the Rambo phase? And why the fuck did you call yourself Rambo? My dog, I used to call my I had a rap name called Mac and Cheese at one point because that's all I used to eat. That was before Rambo? I swear, yes. All life. Yes. I mean, I love Mac and Cheese, but I would never call myself Mac. Was that around when Mac Miller was Easy Mac? His name used to be Easy Mac? He did. R.I.P. But yes. Yeah, R.I.P. yeah. But nah, I was I was Mac and Cheese. You thought Mac and Cheese was so original. Oh god, I was like, I mean this bitch, like, nigga, ain't nobody naming themselves noodles, nigga. What? Cheesy noodles, nigga? Nobody doing that. Little does he know. Look, nigga, that's why been there, done that. Yeah. But um you haven't heard Young Ramen's new mixtape? It's fire. Young Ramen? Not planned. Oh, I'm about to say, oh, they got my own ramen. But okay, so was this in the Mac and Cheese Mac and Cheese era?

Rambo. What else? Sammy Joe. Okay. Sammy Surf. And then Surf Surf. Okay, wow. That's the journey. I done been here around the sun a couple times. Yeah. Hey, man, I mean, I that is one thing that I will actually say for artists that are out there, right? Yeah. Like, maybe think it through like big time. Nah, A couple a couple times. Yeah. A couple times. Rebranding is tough. It sucks. It's a whole process. Dog. Changing my name from Sammy Surf to Surf was so fucking headache. Exactly, bro. You gotta go through DSP and tell them to change all your shit and hope that they do it. Sometimes you have to change the cover art. You gotta change everything. Yeah, you have to change everything. Yeah, because if they see that cover art says Sammy Surf. Sammy Surf, yeah, they're gonna deny it. Yeah. Lucky for me, I've never written on any of my cover arts. Thank God. So I got lucky, there. No, because people that put their artist name on there. No, I never do that. Nah, that shit is not. But yeah, I mean that's, you know, everyone has their opinion on that.

But I'm just saying, for those that do, yeah. It's a pain in the dick. Nah, yeah, yeah. We've helped an artist do that. And it sucked, cause I used DistroKid. Yeah. I had to go. And DistroKid, people don't know. DistroKid is just the middle man Yeah. They can't do anything. Nothing. Like, they can't do anything. No, if Spotify or Apple tells them fuck off, They just tell you Fuck off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just relay the message to you saying, fuck off. So we reached out to them. They was like, fuck off. Okay. Because their whole job is to keep you happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want you to do whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, you're their client. Yeah. But their clients are Apple and Spotify. Spotify, yeah. So we had to reach out to Apple and Spotify individually, yeah, to get them to actually like move the shit over. And then some of the shit still didn't move over. Yep. So it was a headache. It sucks, man. And then you gotta think about like, okay, if you're about to change your name, you got to rebrand everything. Oh, yeah. Image, social, everything. Yeah. Everything. So yeah, for sure. So obviously that first show speaks to the fact that you are the rage angel.

Oh God. Your shows are fucking lit. So, like, how do you actually get ready for a show when you're gonna go that crazy thing? I don't. No, but like even like leading up to the minute you step on stage. Like, are you like chugging Red Bull and shit? I pray. Praying gets you that, like able to be like that ragey. You gotta for me, the extra shit don't do nothing. For me, it's like it's from it's clicking from Sam from Samuel to Surf. Surf is not that's that's a he's there on the stage, you feel what I'm saying? So when I'm there, like nothing else matters, to be completely honest with you. Nothing, I don't give a like I could be dying, nothing else matters. It doesn't matter. Because in them, like I said, in them 15 minutes, I gotta convince how every many people's in that crowd that I'm that nigga, and that I'm about to be the next nigga that's in your phone all day. You feel what I'm saying? So for me, like it's just a click when the beat drops, it's like, all right, we're here. Let's get it.

Is it like a blackout kind of thing? Literally, like you literally just go all on stage and then you literally You're off the stage. Have you ever seen me perform like my eyes rolling back of my head, everything? And I have, by the way, I don't know Yeah, I was about to tell literally, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, go ahead. It's a pretty great story. Okay. Uh but so Ben found you, you know, um, originally, but but then I, you know, I started looking at you and researching for this episode, and I was like, I have seen this motherfucker perform before. I know what y'all's thing is because of him. Because I know I know you. Yes, yeah. Because I think we followed each other after the show. Uh he was going crazy on stage. There's not a lot of tiny venue in Edgewood. You know, people aren't are kind of shy. Small place. And you know, I had a couple drinks, maybe or something. And he my boy lit. And this, but this guy is super lit too on stage, and I'm like reciprocating. I'm feeding off lit. And no one else around me is really, I'm like, this guy is going crazy. There's no lit. See this? Lit. And he recognizes that I'm going crazy. I've seen that shit. Takes he does a couple songs with the ski mask on. Yep.

Takes the ski mask off and says, I see you going crazy. I fuck with you. Hands me the ski mask. And I still have it It's in there. I see. I got it. We busted it out. I might do the rest of the episode in the ski mask. Go ahead and go get it. So it literally is like a blackout moment. Nah, like no funny shit. Is any of that like because you're like bottling shit up or like you know what I mean? Because I understand that you are flipping it on and flipping it off. It's an emotional release. Yeah. It's very much so. So it's how you get shit off your so it is at least subconsciously or whatever shit that you're maybe like wanting to do in your real life, but like literally, yeah, channel it. I would live I would almost say it's therapy. Yeah. For me. Um, like I said, I done been through shit. A lot of like mental shit. I'll be honest. I tried to kill myself at one point when I was like in high school and shit, for sure. A couple times. So for me, it's like um go to therapy, by the way, if you're struggling with like mental. Yeah, I mean, or just wear wear ski.

This is the ski mask. This is the one. That surfed throughout into the crowd. And we know he handed it to me directly. I didn't know that. I handed that to him, I got it. You are too drunk, sir. Nah, listen. When I see people in the crowd, bro, I'll I'll keep it a buck. When I see people in the crowd, especially people like not black people. Like, bro, when people have lighter skin complexions. People of lighter skin complexions, bro. When I see y'all going that crazy, I'd be like, you know what? I fuck with you. Despite the world and what the world is going through, I like you. You feel what I'm saying? And so when I see that, bro, I gotta fuck with it. I ain't got no choice. You fucking and I remembered it. Yeah, I'm about to say here's I kept the mask and I remembered. I literally, I threw this episode on Henry today. I said, bro, are you free at six? No idea. For real.

Because I I thought I'd have a baby at this point. Which I probably do by the time this episode. Actually, I definitely do by the time. this episode I hope so. Yeah, facts. But but in this moment, I had texted Henry this morning, yo, you good at six. Yeah, was what's good? Who's coming through? And then I'm here. The mask and That shit is so crazy to me. That's wild, man. Nah. That's wild. Yeah, I got a different type of love for y'all now. That's crazy. for sure. So you posted something recently, um, at this point, probably a month ago. But anyways, you posted a snippet about having no plan B. And you even said plan B is a good one. Plan B is for pregnancy, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. Classic. So at what point did your mindset like embrace that? Did you go full in, like, I'm doing this. You know what I mean? Probably like last year. Okay. I keep it abandoned. I'm 22, so last year. I'll say you're so fucking young, man. Yeah. God, Damn, that's wild, man. I be chilling, bro. But I'll I'll say, like, because before last year, I didn't know what I knew what I wanted, but I didn't know why I wanted it. If that makes sense.

You when you do shit, you have to have a why. Because that's what's gonna keep you going. You have to have a reason for it. And so for me, it was like, yeah, I want to be like the biggest rapper ever, and I'm gonna be rich. That's every fucking body. That's everybody that fucking raps. It does anything. Yeah. Um, but I think last year it clicked for me to like that shit is cool, and you know, being this big ass artist is cool and having money is cool. That shit is awesome, like, love it. But for me, it's more so about impacting people. For me, it's about telling my story, and somebody hearing that story and saying, Oh shit, that's me. You feel what I'm saying? Oh shit, I know what he's talking about because I felt that. Um, and so that's what that's where even like the whole rage angel shit came from. Like, rage is for me, rage is like, yeah, we gonna turn up, we gonna do all the woo, woo, woo. But rage is more so a lifestyle, it's more so like just being yourself a hundred thousand percent. It's more so choosing to be like up and going and lit all day, regardless of what the fuck happened in life. Because life is never gonna stop.

Life is always gonna have bad things. That's just the the yin and the yang of life, unfortunately. Yeah, it's about how you handle those things. I got pulled over today. I could be in here pissed off, but for what? It happened already. I'm here now. Move on. Yeah, you feel what I'm saying? So that's kind of yeah, nah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And so I mean, you know, did family and friends support you from the jump? Yeah. With your pursuit? Yeah. Okay. I lied. Yes, but there's always that what it so what happens if it doesn't work? Yeah, because I feel like your parents maybe weren't always like on board with team rapper, surf. And what's crazy is my mother is a was a gospel singer. Okay, that's cool. And she got pipes, yeah, yeah. Nice. Oh, yeah. And she would like take me to the studio. She has like like plaques, all type of shit. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Cool shit. And so um, just CDs, like she would perform at weddings, different, like, you know, they had to do like residencies at hotels and shit. Like, she had a bunch of those. Like, nice. So she actually stopped because she had me. And so her biggest thing was like, I know what you're doing, and I know what could happen if it doesn't go how you want it to go. And now you sitting, and you're five, ten years behind everybody because you're trying to say something. But what I think sometimes our parental guidance people and parents and whatever else don't realize is that it's twenty twenty fucking two. It's a million ways to get a dollar. Stop putting so much emphasis and goddamn headache on trying to get rich and do miserable shit to maintain yourself. Because there's a million ways to make money. Nigga, DoorDash is a thing. Uber is a thing. Yeah. Get in your fucking car and go. I I know funny shit, I DoorDash. Ask me how much I make a day. I mean, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Enough to live. It's funny. It's funny too, because when you when you stop focusing on the money and you start focusing on shit, shit that give you fulfillment, you'll shit move. You find money too. You can't take it seriously without this. Listen, get used to it. We're here now. One episode he wore a yellow robe the whole episode. You have it? You got the yellow robe? I think, do not, or no, Kaz has it. I was gonna say to give me the robe, I'll put it on. No, no, you don't want it. You don't want it. Listen, but yeah, no, but it's true. Um, like being even like a content creator was not a job, back when like your mom was around. Yeah, bro. It's new new things scare people, unknown things scare the fuck out of people. For sure. because you don't know. But you just got you gotta have faith in that shit. You know, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Always. For sure. That's how you grow in life. Yeah, so so one of I think your most, you know, popular songs, or at least one of the ones that I was drawn to the most. Yeah.

Maybe because it has, you know, my city's name and the title. Break from Atlanta. Yeah. Tell the people kind of like what inspired that. Yeah. I was depressed, nigga. Straight up. Yeah, like, you know, what's that song about? Getting the fuck out of Atlanta. Because I'm sick. I was tired of being here. Still am. But Atlanta. Don't leave us. Don't leave us, man. Come on, we just became friends. Yeah, you're right. You're right. We can't leave now. I'll say that Atlanta is Atlanta is very clicky. Atlanta is very, if you're not us, fuck you. Atlanta is very, I don't know you, so I'm not gonna let you in the gate. Atlanta is very, you not cool with who I'm cool with, so no, you can't come in the gate. Atlanta is very, if you're not out all night, in the scene all night, if you're not in people's faces all night, we don't give a fuck about you. Um, and so for me, Atlanta, it it get old, it gets old.

You feel what I'm saying? I love Atlanta, don't get it fucked up. I love the culture. I love what we do for hip hop, for music, for video, music, I mean, uh, film, all that shit. But at some point you gotta realize that Atlanta is full of everybody who everybody's famous in Atlanta. Everybody thinks they're famous. Everybody, everybody is somebody for doing nothing. Everybody, literally everybody. Yeah, everybody got 10, 20k on Instagram. Everybody feels like they hot shit because they got a thousand likes on a picture. But then if you take away Instagram, if Instagram was to shut down today, everybody that everybody be lame as fuck. I promise. Everybody, that's a good one. We just talked about that too, in reality, most niggas are struggling. I'll keep it a band. You know how much it is to get gas in your fucking car? Most niggas are struggling, and they're not gonna say it because it's about perception. So if you keep the perception going and make it look like you alright, people gonna think you alright. But when it, when you cut off Instagram and you get off that shit and you by yourself, most people can't sit by themselves because it's too much. Because all the thoughts and all the goddamn, because you don't know, you don't know yourself.

Yeah, you just know what people are perceiving you as. Yeah. And that's why that's dangerous. I hate Atlanta because it's like that. A lot of people are like that. So where would you have gone at that time? Did you have a place in mind? Yeah, where's not like that? You know what I mean? New York. Think they're less like that? Just because there's so much going on. Yeah. New York, I'm I've actually I've been in New York. I performed in New York like one time. Yeah. And even there, when I went to the college that I went to to perform at, it was like everybody. It ain't New York different because everybody actually do something. I guarantee everybody does something and they're decent at it. Versus here, you gonna you're gonna have to dig your hand in that bucket to find the decent shit. Because you gonna be digging for a while. In New York, them niggas like, as soon as you step off that motherfucker, like, yeah, what's going on? And they genuine. They they're like, nigga, that shit trash. Hey, bro, that shit ass. Yeah, even if it's rude, yeah. that shit ass, bro. But if it's good, they like okay.

And they gonna and they gonna let you know that. Atlanta don't do that. Atlanta go have the shittiest niggas thinking that they are the hottest niggas in the city. I'm talking pure doodle ass cheeks. And these niggas are like, what, bro? What, bro? Yeah. Nah, I okay, yeah, I feel that. You feel what I'm saying? So that was featuring Letter M, right? Shout out him. Yeah. Yeah. Who has been in the studio actually recorded him? For Sure. Okay and mixed a couple records with it on there. Caleb, maybe. Caleb brought him, and shout out to AB. Who are you talking about? Caleb Colossus, Caleb Colossus. For sure. And AB, shout out to AB, yeah. Yeah, M. Let's get you on the podcast, my man. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on out. The water's warm. It's warm. Get him up right now. Text him right now. Call him. Hold on. On the Say M. One More Time Podcast. Yep. We're actually doing an episode right now. FaceTime with letter M. Yeah, yeah.

Yep. Hey, bro. They said come do the podcast, bro. Yeah, M. Come on, bro. Listen. Listen. Come out here, bro. You know where you've been here before. This nigga's on the toilet. Listen, they say come do the podcast, bro. He's on the toilet. I am taking a shit on niggas daily. Hold on, say it again. I am taking a shit on niggas daily. This is the D She's taking the podcast. Fuck yeah, I tell him about. Oh God. All right, we got letter M's uh shit shit vlogs coming soon. What you gotta say? I got one more thing to say to them, folks. Surf Malone. Top five and not five. Bitch! Yes, sir. Fuck they talking about. You gotta come do the podcast on it. Yes, sir. Hey man. What? Hey, matter of fact, y'all DM me, man. Yeah, I got you. I got you. I got you. All right. Amazing timing. That's amazing. So I'm gonna call out M, okay? Because he had commented back when I said like, let's do the podcast. I'm like, because he had you know shown love to someone else.

Yeah. He said, hit my people or something. I'm like, well, I just got your people because There you go. stamp. So M, this is your people This is it. Let's make it happen. Twin, come do the podcast Let's go, bro. so yeah, you know, that was hard. So another person that you've linked up with who has been on the podcast. Yes, sir. He's a real motherfucker. Ah, man. Is Ben Riley. We call him Billboard Benny. Nah, that's that's Ben credible right there. Yep. Ben credible. I love it. So Bet, like we said, is out now. Uh-huh. I'll put a description to it in the uh, you know, in the you know, video description. Song of the summer. Um yeah, Song of the Summer. Like, how did y'all link up? Shit. Do you remember? Instagram. Just like that. Seeing each other's kind of movement. Yeah, I want to say it was around like last year. It was like some genuine shit. He just, I want to say either I reached out or he reached out. One or two. Yeah, like he had probably just dropped his project, maybe. I want to say I've seen, I want to say, I know he had put out um the freelance and he put out the Maytag video. I know I was heavy under that shit.

Like, what the fuck? Um, and then it was like vice versa shit. He was fucking with me, fucking with him type shit. And then we had finally seen each other in person at uh, or at least that was this is my first time seeing him, I think, at the Lotus show. At the shout out Anwar. Shout out gang. My fucking family, my fucking brother. I've seen so much of his like you know, events and the shit that he's done, man. And like to have seen that you were in that circle too. I was like, dude, this is what they do they are pioneers for sure. Yeah, what they do, what they're doing for the city right now is insane. I know. I I really really, you know, really respect that shit and like support everything that they got going on. Especially Lotus Rosary is like super dope. It was it was them and then Velvet Residents who we're now really close with those guys. That's gonna, that's coming out too. It might be out already. Yeah, I'll say yes, it's out already. Yeah, it's out. Subscribe it's out Go subscribe to the Velvet Residents channel too. Because yeah, Martin and Danny are like two of the best people we've met in this game. They're crushed out. They was fire.

They're so creative. I love the different shit that they put out. And like, same thing with Lotus Rosary. When I saw that you were, you know, uh you know, a part of that, like uh that Red Bull show. Yeah, um, I mean, super dope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love I love them, folks, for sure. That's my family. Yep. Yep. And and so, you know, Ben had, I guess, you know, you guys started like rocking with each other. He um, yeah, yeah, Instagram, and then I seen him at the show. Um at the the what was it, center stage? We did uh uh the Benji with um since the 80s. Yeah, we did with the history. Yeah, we had Benji on the podcast. Oh, for sure. Okay, cool yeah, yeah, yeah. And we just had his brother Christopher on the podcast. Fire, Christopher Fire. So yeah, I seen him there. Um chopped it up, whoop, and then I think we exchanged numbers or something like that. Um pulled up on him at the studio a couple times. So that's how the bromance started? Yeah. It's my baby right there. Yeah. Because I've tuned into some hilarious lives where you are It gets very zesty around here. Yeah.

Zest tales So I do feel like you guys are part of this next wave of Atlanta rappers. Facts. Like, I I'm I'm calling it right now. Facts. Ben's obviously starting to have some moments. Facts. You're starting to have some moments. Facts The whole just like universe y'all are living in, I feel like is is next. We're gonna make this in five years. We're gonna clip this Eastside World. You called it. No, for sure. Zone 6 world, Eastside World. How important is it, do you think, you know, even with the IJU Collective, and then like with something like the relationship you built with Ben for sure to build this like community of peers. That to me, that shit is more important than you than being like the best artist ever. If you don't have no community, none of this shit matter. Yeah. Because you at the end of the day, Drake is Drake because Drake fucked with everybody. Drake go out to you. What's the nigga name he just did a song? The smiley nigga?

The uh DR Gucci, it go together. Like, yeah, we fuck with everybody. So the biggest thing, the biggest thing I've learned in this, because I used to be the type of nigga where I was like, I'm not working with nobody. Fuck these niggas. I hate everybody. I literally used to be like that. I promise you. We know a few artists. Man, I'm talking about I don't want to do nothing with none of you niggas. I don't want to be around none of you niggas. I'm not going to your show after I do my set, I'm leaving. Like type shit. Was it a, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the psychology of that mindset. Was it an arrogance thing? Nah, it was just I was like an introverted thing, maybe. Yeah, and I was always taught that rap was a competition. Yeah. Which it can be. But we talked about this with Ben, because he has a rap group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like he he used it as a shield, steel sharpened steel, where it's like, y'all are making each other better, not by competing But you have to that that's that's a certain level of maturity though. That comes with understanding that you also can't be first. That's the same type of thing. Like you can't be first. You gotta understand that, like, if me and Ben go to the studio and Ben goddamn do a fire ass song, and I don't, I can't be upset. It's more so like, all right, now I know I gotta come harder next time.

Yeah, don't be no dickhead about it. Like, you know what I'm saying? That's that's what I had to learn. Okay, hold on one second. Uh oh. Is it happening? I don't know. Hello? Okay. Like, I need to come home right now. Time. Probably like 15 minutes. Oh my god. All right. Okay. Yep. All right. Okay. Love you. You're recording. Holy shit. On the podcast. Holy shit. Baby Ben is on the way. Oh shit. I was doing it. Alright, yeah. So, so basically, yes, supporting people. Yeah. Support people. Is is super important. Cause yeah, I think that like, I mean, not only does it inspire you, but it also like it's gonna make it more enjoyable. It makes the shit fun. Yeah, yeah. If I'm in a studio with a bunch like that, that the Dreamville shit that they did, yeah. I know that shit was fun.

We've had several people tell the stories of that. They was in there on each other's ass. Yeah. Like every room competing with each other. Yeah, and if your verse trash is coming off this song Right. Yeah. Make it fire. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, yo, the stories you've had, the perspective that you have. I mean, amazing. I I had high hopes for the episode, but like, fucking overdelivered, man. That shit was amazing. I appreciate it. It's a really great conversation. This is probably one of the best conversations I've had. So yeah, love that. We love that. And Henry, if it wasn't his schema, I would. This is crazy. It's a great story behind this. Yeah, it is. That's just crazy. But yeah, everyone go follow surf at okay surf. Gang. Yes. Everywhere. Yes, sir. Okay, surf. No, Twitter is different. Fucking five. Yeah, fine. Find that shit. Yeah. But it's S period U, period R, period F on streaming. Beat Someone you remember forever. Ever. And Henry until next week, what are we doing? We're getting out of here. We're getting the fuck out. Gang. Peace. Bye bye. Party shit light one more time. Hop up in a flash cart. Middle finger to the live. Yen!