Beatmaker vs. Producer

People still hear producer and they think beatmaker to this day. People that have been in the industry a while still think a producer is just the guy that made the beat. And there's so much more to it than that. So the One More Time Music Podcast. Genuine conversations with genuine people about music. Hosted by Henry with a three and playback Ben. We're here. It's another week. You can't get rid of us. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the One More Time podcast. We're here. It's another week. You can't get rid of us, like I said. I'm here with my co-host Henry with a three. I'm playback Ben and Henry. Who do we have on the podcast today? Today on the podcast, we have. We have nobody. We are trying something a little different. Uh we had a our last episode with Drumma Jay J, uh producer. We had got into a conversation about producing, and there was a topic we kind of wanted to get a little deeper in, so we're exploring a new kind of format where we're just gonna chit chat.

It's just me and you. That's it. Are you nervous? I'm a little nervous. It's gonna be okay, buddy. We're gonna do this. We can get through. We can get through. Let's get into it. So, yeah, today's topic is the infamous beat maker versus producer conversation. This is a big one. You're in this community. I'm, I'm I'm kind of a bystander, so it might hurt a little bit more or might get a little sensitive from your end. I don't know. We'll see how this goes. I got tough skin. But yeah, so beat maker versus producer. I I guess I want to start with do you think there's a difference? Major, major, major difference. Major difference. Do you think there are similarities? It's kind of like uh, I would say it's like a square versus a rectangle kind of thing, you know. I was never good at geometry, so I'm not quite sure what to so yeah. There's they're obviously related. Okay, so so define for me, if you had to sum up beat maker in your own words, let's start there. That's the easiest one.

That one I think speaks for itself. It's so easy. Give it to me. A beat maker makes beats. Makes beats. Beat maker makes beats. It stops there and it ends there. They are usually working alone, you know, kind of maybe in their bedroom, and they start with nothing, maybe a loop, maybe from scratch, but they're not with an artist typically, and they're just making beats, and they're probably making a lot of beats. Big packs of beats, sending out packs of beats, true beat maker. Does quantity have to play into the equation, would you say? I don't think it has to, but because a beat maker isn't doing all the other things that a producer is doing, then I would hope that if you're just a beat maker, you're kind of compensating that extra time by having a bigger quantity. You know what I mean? Sure. So on the flip side, define producer for me. Once again, high level we'll kind of get into the weeds, but I want to start 30,000 foot view. What is a producer in your own words?

A producer is any individual who oversees the creation of a song from beginning to end. They are it's like a movie. You think about a movie producer, right? They're not like directing, they're not acting. They're kind of the one that oversees the entire process, right? Maybe they have to put some money into it. They kind of put dots together, they connect people, they get the right pieces of the puzzle together, whatever that means to that person. That's a producer, and that goes far and beyond just making a beat, even though that can be included in that. Sure, but but to me then how do you split the difference between executive producer because that sounds very executive producer like not necessarily doing any of the groundwork, right? Do you think that that is what you're describing or somewhat, yeah, somewhat. To me, an executive producer is a true producer.

And that's more of a term I like to use for someone that does projects. Someone that's actually producing entire albums, you know or projects. so it goes beyond so you can't executive produce a single do you think? I guess you can I guess you can but to me it's not that different. I'm asking the tough questions here, Henry. Yeah, this is good. No, this is we're off to a hot start. I love it. But yeah, to me, it's a producer to me like the ultimate producer is like a DJ Khaled who isn't necessarily making any you know he's not working on any of these beats or anything but he's responsible for all these songs coming together. He finds this person to do that. Okay that person would sound crazy if I move this here and put that together here and we make this like people don't give him respect but he's like the ultimate kind of executive producer or producer that I would say. Sure. So then you mention a big delineation between beat maker and producer is the interfacing or lack thereof with the artists. Absolutely so do you think does it have to be in person?

Can that be over the internet in these days? Like where do you think that line starts? I think it is very I guess where would you draw the line then it is very possible to do it without meeting. I always think it's better. I think there's better vibes when you're in the same room but I do think you can still produce um you know, from the other side of the world. There's these, there's guys, you know, there's there's beat makers in Europe that are like killing it. They're making there's some crazy beat makers from Europe. And some of them you might lease a beat from them on their beat stars, never talk to them, you know, make the song, get it mixed, put it out. To me, they're just a beat maker. But if that person is following up, you know, does an email back and forth, here's the first mix, maybe, gives feedback, right? And is really working together to kind of like, oh, I love what you did on the bridge right there. I I changed the bass, I I swapped out the 808 for a synth bass on that bridge part, and I think that makes it way cooler. Stuff like that, being involved. So it's not just communication, right?

Because you at first you started off with if they hit them up seeing how's it going, like, did you record to it? Like, how did it go? It's far beyond just the communication. You would you say that inevitably there's at least one change that happens after the initial here's the beat? No, is that kind of where it starts? There doesn't have to be a change just for the sake of making a change, you know. Okay, maybe they hear it and decide everything you did is perfect. So then is that a producer? Yes. And if they actually took the time and listened to it all and decided that it's perfect, then yeah, it's the people that you know make the beat and never really have hear the song or have any input until the song is out. To me, that's more of a beat maker. They didn't really have some people like to make changes to songs just to say that they did it, and that's kind of lame. If you love what someone did, I'd say, you know, leave it alone. But you should be able, if you're producing a song, you should have that opportunity to to say, hey, I think this will make the song better.

I think you could change this. Let's try this. Let's work together. Let's make the best possible song we can. Sure. Do you have an opinion on where each of those sit hierarchically hierarchy is? Is that a word? Are we making up words on this podcast. I guess I guess does one trump the other? Is there is one a general and one's a captain? I mean, you know, is there a is there a rank to the the differences, the difference between beat maker and producer? I don't know if there's a rank necessarily. I mean, to me, production is more important. So if that makes it a higher rank, so be it. And and you know, production goes far beyond just, you know, how's the beat sound? How do the vocals sound? You know, it's when I, for example, when I'm engineering and I'm sitting and working with an artist, I I act as a vocal producer, which is a huge part of production. Sometimes I think I'm a better vocal producer than I even am a beat maker.

So for those that don't know, what would you say qual qualifies as vocal production? Like what kinds of things you tack tactically, what are you doing? You're definitely in the session as the artist is recording. Physically there. I guess you could like FaceTime technically like be in Zoom the entire time. That'd be pretty annoying, though. Okay. But yes, in some way, you're a part of the session. You're participating, you're listening to every single take, you're absorbing it, the whole song, and you are working with the artist to get the best possible vocals. You're taking out words, you're rearranging stuff, you're suggesting different ways of going about it. And to me, that's a huge part of production that has nothing to do with beat making. You know, the beat's already made, but we're still producing a song together. I'm just kind of giving you ideas and and you know, bouncing back and forth and seeing what we can come up with. Sure. That's huge. And so vocal production. Do you think if someone's a beat maker and they're sending beats out or they're putting them up on the internet, right, for people to consume? Do you think that there has to be is there always a producer, would you say in every song?

Yeah, I say it's a lot of times it's the artist. Sure. And that's where I was kind of going. It's like me thinking about the process, right? Someone's gotta be there, whether it's the artist in their own head saying, like, nah, fuck that take, that was terrible. You know, what if we switched up this part of the beat, or what if we dropped out something here or there? I mean, also now that I'm talking it out loud, where do you think the engineer plays in the process? That depends on the engineer, you know. I mean, when I started engineering, I was just making sure I was hitting the right buttons. And how hard was that? In the beginning, it's it's pretty hard because you because some people want you to work really fast. So learn your hot keys, by the way, engineers, very important. Speed is important. When you get your speed down, one more time. One more time. Hot keys. One more time, one more time. Learn your hot keys. speed is very important. Learn your fucking hot keys. And when you have your speed down and you don't have to think about what you're doing, you can spend your energy being there with the artist and kind of acting as a vocal producer. And I credit a lot of that to my success as an engineer.

Sure. So then one other thing I wanted to touch on is can someone be both? Both and a beat maker and a producer. Sorry, I'm getting back to the topic at hand. Trying to keep us on track. Yes. Beat maker versus producer. Can one individual in their career be acting as both simultaneously? Is it an evolution? Where do you see someone actually fitting in to both categories? Can it be, like I said, simultaneous or not? I absolutely think you can be both. And a lot, it's gonna boil down to, you know, first of all, if you make beats, boom, you're a beat maker. If you want to be a producer, it comes down to, you know, you have are you interacting with this artist? Is that line of communication there? You might work with an artist that doesn't want your input. They just wanted to buy your beat and they don't give a fuck what you think, you know? And in that case, you're kind of just a beat. maker. Shout out to them. You know, and what are you gonna do? Shout out to them. What are you gonna do in that case? But um, and then yeah, there's producers that aren't beat makers, like I said, like a DJ Khaled, you know, it's it's very possible.

So every situation is different. Um most producers I would say make beats. Um, and then, you know, most beat makers, I I don't know. It's it depends on what level they put into the song for me. How much are they actually contributing? How much is their decision making going into the final product? Sure. Where would you say you sit in the equation? Somewhere in the middle, most likely. I I would definitely lean toward producer. Um, I mean, I have a project coming out here uh pretty soon. Shout out to Back Outside. Back outside. Coming out end of July. Um there's the title track is called Back Outside. I didn't even uh make that beat. You know what I mean? But I heard it. Um made by shout out Ace Taylor and Jay Padron on the beat. I heard this beat that they had made like over a year ago. Beautiful, beautiful sample. I mean, such a vibe. And then I heard some artists on it and I just knew that it was gonna sound good together. So, you know, in that case, I'm a producer.

I didn't even work on, I worked on the rest of the beats, but that one I just heard it and I knew. So I'm definitely somewhere in the middle because I also have a beat stars and people lease beats from me and I'll email them and say, you know, thanks for releasing my beat, you know. Uh send me the song. Let's work on it. And then they won't hit me back. And then boom, I'm just a beat maker. Okay, so it doesn't stop there on you wanting it to stop there. Oh, and I always attempt to go further. I love producing, unless, you know, maybe if it's an artist I don't really believe in, or you know, if I just kind of don't have time for it, or if I don't think they take their craft seriously, maybe I won't reciprocate with my full energy. But you know, if it's anytime, if it's an artist that I believe in and I want to do good and I want our music to sound as best as possible, yeah, I'm gonna be annoyingly in their face trying to produce that song, whether or not I made the beat or not. Like I said, back outside. Didn't work on the beat, but I put it together, and that's probably one of my favorite songs on there for sure. So it's interesting to me.

There's no space on the song credits for beat maker. Do you think there should be a? And if not, does that contradict everything we've been talking about so far? And they are actually producers or are they writers? I mean, what where would you first of all the times have just not caught up to the way that it works? I mean, to me, just the music industry. It's just behind. It's still it's not modernized. at all. I mean, song credits on DSPs just started within the last I mean, year, I don't know. Like, come on. Yeah. It's 2021. I mean, there's a lot more modernizing. People still hear producer and they think beat maker to this day. People that have been in the industry a while still think a producer is just the guy that made the beat. And there's so much more to it than that. So should it be different, you know, how it all works? Yes. Do I have much hope that that's gonna happen anytime soon? Not really. So I'm kind of just trying to play the game in the meantime, personally. Just doing what we can do, you know.

Yeah. So one other point that I wanted to bring up is this concept of loops and loop makers, right? Shout out loop makers. Shout out the loop guys. Loop makers, we'd love to have you on the podcast. Drop us a comment, leave it a review, and we'll we'll be happy to get you on. Um, so loops and loop makers. Not that are loops new. I wouldn't say new, but their popularity and their use as a way of collaborating and making music is has exploded recently. It's just funny to me. It's like this novel idea to make melodies. You know, it's like it's like it is this new thing, I would say. Over the last couple of years, it's definitely picked up a lot of steam, right? But it's clearly not this new earth-shattering concept of like, oh, there's some people that are proficient in developing melodies or catchy, you know, sound bits that you know can be used in different ways, right? And there's people whose drums slap.

So you put them together. Yeah, exactly. For whatever reason, I think people had just more recently realized that it's an extremely efficient way of collaborating, networking, and just getting shit done, uh, really. I'm all about loops for sure. Loop makers, send me an email. Uh, inbox is always open, accepting loops at all times. Shameless plug for loops. Um, where would you say loop makers fit into this discussion of a beat maker versus producer? It's almost like a I won't say a step down, but it's almost like a sub of a beat maker. You know what I mean? Because if a beat maker is not involved in the song creating process, a loop maker, sure as hell, is probably not gonna be involved. Because it goes from it, he makes the loop, it goes to another producer's email, producer makes the beat. Sometimes it goes to a third producer, finishes the beat. Then maybe it goes to like an artist's email and their engineer pulls it up and they they work on it.

So loop makers are pretty far away from the equation to me in general. Shout out to the loop makers that still want to be a part of the process. Like, oh, this guy used one of my loops. Let's let's work on this song together. But I think that's pretty rare. So then if a loop maker is involved in the sessions and the creative process giving their opinion, hey, try it this way. What if we did this? What if we did that? That then in your mind makes them it kind of transforms them into the producer. That's production. So someone with a talent in loop making, once again, can still transcend into that producer category, is what you're saying. If I was just a pure loop maker, I would be, you know, following up with everyone. Like, hey, did this artist work on that? Can I get a copy of the rough mix? Can I get the artist's email and give some feedback? And you know, you're probably gonna get your publishing anyway, because you know, you're part of the songwriting process, you made that part of the beat, get your pub. So it's almost like what's the motivation to do that, you know, outside of legitimately wanting to make the best song possible, which I think is great, but you're not really getting any extra credit, you're not getting any extra points for that or anything.

So I think there's a hesitation. I don't know about it. it's a customer experience. I mean, this is the marketer here now speaking, right? Customer experience. If you can work with a loop maker that does add value above and beyond that and is checking in, I mean, that's just customer service 101 in my mind. If I was an artist and they hit me up, yeah, I would take note of that. I would appreciate it. Or if you were a producer, because typically it's not even the artists that are really interfaced. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. The flow is typically loop maker to producer or beat maker to artist, right? That's kind of how it logically goes. Yep. So it's really their clients are producers in my mind, right? They're trying to service the producer community. They're networking with producers or beat makers, right? To make sure that they get their loops, their loop packs out to the right people that are going to be in sessions with the right folks, right? Um, so that that's where I think that, you know, there is a point to following up and to trying to be involved, even if it is just checking in and you know, figuring out where things are at, right? I mean, because you could just take the money and run or take your points and run or whatever, right?

But I don't think that that's gonna that's not gonna leave an impression on them to want to go to you for the next pack of loops, right? It might leave an impression on producers who hear, you know, someone's loops. Like, you know, it's it's your brand as a as a creative, you know. If you just want to be the best loop maker of all time, some of these kids in Europe, again, crushing it. There's some guys on like Looperman that I've used loops off of Looperman. Shout out Looper Man. Do you prefer Looperman or Splice? This is not sponsored in any way, shape, or form, but we'd love to have either of you on as a sponsor for the podcast. Looperman is probably more uh in the realm of the type of music that I do. So but Splice for you know, like one-shots and and drums and stuff is amazing. But you know, I've I've used I had Germ in the studio one day and shout out germ. Shout out Germ. germ. We'd love to have you on the podcast. And he's going through his email listening to beats, and he's like, these are all trash. Let's make something from scratch. I go into Looperman and type in Germ, and I find a Suicide Boys Germ type loop, and we cook up a crazy beat with that loop.

I end up hitting the guy up, you know, on Instagram, and he now he sends me loops all the time. I was like, yo, we made a germ, we made germ a beat on your germ type loop, and I met him that way. Do they title them type loops? Absolutely. Oh my gosh. They're artists. So type beats have now transformed into or transcended into type loops. Looperman has the type loops. It says YouTube has the type beat. It doesn't say type. Okay. Well, some of them do. I was like, that would be awesome. Yeah. Um so on that note, how do you feel about if you were a loop maker, strictly loop maker, right? Would you be relying on internet-based searches, like just people finding you, or would you be trying to network with producers and build those personal relationships, or would you think you'd do a kind of combination of both? Probably a little bit of both. To me, the in-person thing is always very important. But I don't know. In the case of the loop maker, I would say uh a pretty big percentage of it could be done online, really.

Because online in the sense of like getting the right keywords, germ type. You've you found this guy or this loop because of germ type, germ type loop. You typed in his loop the right way. You easily, though, could have just kept searching germ in that. You didn't, you know, what made you want to reach out to him? Now I'm actually curious. I liked his loop. And but couldn't you just have followed him on that page? Like, you know, did you think he'd give you the like exclusive? Like, were you trying to like build some like exclusive relationship with you there? I was trying to get him hype, you know. I was trying to make his day. Like, hey, you know, you did a germ type loop, and I got germ on your song. Yeah. Like, that's pretty to me. If I was a loop maker, that'd be pretty cool. Yeah. Like, like, yo, that works. That literally that worked well. Yeah. Straight up. Like that happened exactly. Because typically, you if you were the loop maker, you'd be like, I'm never gonna get germ. I just put that as yeah, I'm looking for germ fans. Yeah, or rappers that want to be like germ. Yeah, not actual germ or the producer that works with germ. It was great.

And then, yeah, as a byproduct, you know, he sends me loops all the time now. And so I got a couple more beats with him. And what's his name? His name is Rudy's Beats or Rudis Beats. I'm not sure he's one of those European kids. Shout out to Rudy's Rudis beats, however we pronounce it. Sorry for butchering your name. But you got some hella good germ loops. R U D I S beats. Give him a follow on Instagram. He doesn't have enough followers for sure. Yeah, that's dope. Yeah. So so any final words of wisdom on the topic, right? Any last comments on the beat maker versus producer discussion? The main thing I would say is to everyone out there who makes beats or produces really find out who you are and where you fit into the equation, what you're good at, you know. Um, are you just good at making beats? Do you not really like being in the studio with artists? Do you like giving feedback to artists and helping them and vocal producing? Do you just like making loops? Um self-awareness, self-awareness, self-awareness.

It's the name of the game. Figure out who you are, what you like to do, what you're good at, and go all in on that. Cause being a producer, there's a million ways to do it now. So figure out what you know, your way of doing it, basically. There's so many ways. It's like try everything and then lock in and just go hard on that. Yeah, and and for me, just to echo that, you know, as once again, the more the business, you know, mindset behind it, it's exactly the same though. It's be unapologetically you. Yes. And brand yourself that way, make it be known. This is what you do, this is what you're good at. Here is a strategy around executing being the best that you can at that, right? If you're the loop maker out there and you want to be the best at making loops, figure out your digital strategy. How do you pull people in? How do you get people searching for your loops and finding your loops? I mean, Rudis clearly, I mean, I'm assuming there weren't thousands and thousands of germ type loops out there.

So he picked this niche. I mean, he's still a very successful artist, but like relatively, you know, niche fan base, and he executed on that, right? So being able to do that digitally, but then also personally networking with the producers. I mean, he could easily go and look up who were the producers on Germ's Last Project. You would be one of them. He could have found you just as easily. And Rudis, if you're listening, I would recommend doing stuff like that, right? Is looking at the track lists and the production credits of your target artist when you're making sounds. If you're a loop maker, for example, or if you're making beats. One more time. One more time. Big gem, big gem. Big gem from Big Ben. No, so it it uh it seems obvious when you think about it, but not everyone's doing it. No one's doing that. I mean it's a gem for sure. Literally, like they're these people's names are out there. You can find them and you can directly email them.

Like send emails every day. You know, you're not this person that's ignoring DMs, right? Like you're wanting and willing to respond to people to collaborate with people that don't have as many followers as you and and that sort of thing, right? So even if 99% of the people don't hit you back, if one person hits you back, it could change your life. Really? Yeah. And and I just think that it's it's so simple when you break it down, people get sometimes overwhelmed by just like, how many loops can I sell? How do I, you know, make more loops? How do I, you know, this, that, and the third, right? But if you you strategically think about it and you break down, who am I making this for, how do I find them, and then approaching them, whether it's once again by just putting out content that can draw them in, or whether it's actually reaching out to them, to you, your DMs are open, your websites on your Link Tree, email, you're reachable. Link Tree's broken, by the way.

We don't mess with Link Tree anymore. Well, fuck you Link Tree. We don't want you on the podcast. But no, so so people like you are able to be reached, and they are in need of your demand is high for his product. I mean, his he can be the supply chain that you need to be making the music that you hope to make with people like germ. You know what I mean? 100%. Germ hates 99% of the beats he gets. So shout out Germ. But no, I think just to wrap up, you know, whether you're a beat maker, whether you're a producer, whether you're, you know, a loop maker that we think is, you know, kind of a sub-genre of beat making, right? Um, figure out who you want to be and who you are right now. Figure out who you're trying to reach as far as your target market, your target audience, right? Who the people you want to make music with are, where they live online, and find them. Yep.

And I swear it can work. I mean, you're you're not the only one who found this loop and ended up connecting with the guy, right? There's tons of stories like these. But you gotta just think about it and go take the action to make it happen. 100%. Well said. Well, Henry, this has been an amazing conversation, my friend. I'm looking forward to this format. Yeah, it was cool. I love you guests, but sometimes I just want to talk to Henry about a certain topic, and you know, shoot the shit. sometimes you guests won't shut up. Yeah. Stop talking. No, but this has been another episode of the One More Time podcast. Like I said, this is a new format for us. One more time. Let us know in the comments what you think of it. Do you like it? Do you hate it? Either way, we're coming back next week. Whether we have a guest or whether it's just us two. Sorry. So we appreciate it. Tune in as always. Much love. We'll see you next week. We're out. Peace. Peace. Yeah.